13:49:20 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #bpwg
13:49:20 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2007/07/31-bpwg-irc
13:49:22 <trackbot-ng> RRSAgent, make logs member
13:49:23 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #bpwg
13:49:25 <trackbot-ng> Zakim, this will be BPWG
13:49:25 <Zakim> ok, trackbot-ng; I see MWI_BPWG()10:00AM scheduled to start in 11 minutes
13:49:27 <trackbot-ng> Meeting: Mobile Web Best Practices Working Group Teleconference
13:49:29 <trackbot-ng> Date: 31 July 2007
13:49:53 <jo> zakim, this will be bctf
13:49:53 <Zakim> ok, jo; I see MWI_BPWG()10:00AM scheduled to start in 11 minutes
13:51:07 <jo> zakim, code
13:51:07 <Zakim> I don't understand 'code', jo
13:51:14 <jo> zakim, code?
13:51:14 <Zakim> the conference code is 2283 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), jo
13:53:09 <roland> roland has joined #bpwg
13:56:22 <Rotan> Rotan has joined #bpwg
13:57:05 <Rhys> Rhys has joined #bpwg
13:57:22 <roland> roland has left #bpwg
13:58:12 <Zakim> MWI_BPWG()10:00AM has now started
13:58:14 <Zakim> + +0148373aaaa
13:58:32 <Rhys> Zakim, aaaa is Rhys
13:58:32 <Zakim> +Rhys; got it
13:58:41 <Rhys> Zakin, who is here
13:58:45 <Rhys> Zakim, who is here
13:58:45 <Zakim> Rhys, you need to end that query with '?'
13:58:49 <Rhys> Zakim, who is here?
13:58:49 <Zakim> On the phone I see Rhys
13:58:51 <Zakim> On IRC I see Rhys, Rotan, Zakim, RRSAgent, jo, trackbot-ng
13:58:52 <Zakim> + +1.630.414.aabb
13:58:53 <Zakim> - +1.630.414.aabb
13:58:54 <Zakim> + +1.630.414.aabb
13:58:56 <roland> roland has joined #bpwg
13:59:36 <Zakim> +??P24
13:59:47 <jo> zakim, ??p24 is jo
13:59:47 <Zakim> +jo; got it
14:00:38 <Zakim> + +1.519.880.aacc
14:01:07 <kemp> kemp has joined #bpwg
14:01:18 <matt> matt has joined #bpwg
14:01:35 <rob> rob has joined #bpwg
14:01:41 <roland> roland has left #bpwg
14:01:45 <Zakim> + +0789972aadd
14:01:52 <Andrew> Andrew has joined #bpwg
14:02:32 <Zakim> + +0207287aaee
14:03:02 <jo> zakim, aaee is Rob
14:03:02 <Zakim> +Rob; got it
14:03:52 <jo> zakim, aacc is aaron
14:03:52 <Zakim> +aaron; got it
14:04:12 <jo> zakim, who is here?
14:04:12 <Zakim> On the phone I see Rhys, +1.630.414.aabb, jo, aaron, +0789972aadd, Rob
14:04:13 <Zakim> On IRC I see Andrew, rob, matt, kemp, Rhys, Rotan, Zakim, RRSAgent, jo, trackbot-ng
14:04:17 <kemp> zakim, kemp is aaron
14:04:17 <Zakim> sorry, kemp, I do not recognize a party named 'kemp'
14:04:35 <jo> zakim, aacc is sean
14:04:35 <Zakim> sorry, jo, I do not recognize a party named 'aacc'
14:04:56 <Rhys> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-bpwg/2007Jul/0086.html
14:04:58 <jo> zakim, aabb is sean
14:04:58 <Zakim> +sean; got it
14:05:31 <jo> zakim, aadd is Andrew
14:05:31 <Zakim> +Andrew; got it
14:05:45 <jo> zakim, who is here
14:05:46 <Zakim> jo, you need to end that query with '?'
14:05:54 <jo> zakim, who is here?
14:05:54 <Zakim> On the phone I see Rhys, sean, jo, aaron, Andrew, Rob
14:05:55 <Zakim> On IRC I see Andrew, rob, matt, kemp, Rhys, Rotan, Zakim, RRSAgent, jo, trackbot-ng
14:06:41 <jo> zakim, aaron is kemp
14:06:41 <Zakim> +kemp; got it
14:07:15 <jo> scribenick: jo
14:07:21 <jo> scribe: Jo
14:08:57 <skarim> skarim has joined #bpwg
14:09:33 <jo> --> mailing list: mailto:public-bpwg-ct@w3.org
14:09:55 <jo> archive --> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-bpwg-ct/
14:10:48 <jo> Topic: Problem Statement Document
14:11:36 <jo> rhys: definition of the problem we are trying to solve, a number of audiences we are trying to address in the other doc but first we need to define the problem
14:11:45 <DKA> DKA has joined #bpwg
14:11:47 <skarim> * Shah also notes that Zakim lines are full.
14:12:02 <jo> ... we brainstormed some items at the F2F
14:12:04 <DKA> Hi all -- getting "this conference is full" error from Zakim...
14:12:25 <jo> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-bpwg-ct/2007Jul/0001.html
14:12:37 <Rotan> Seems the W3C has bouncers on the door :(
14:13:05 <jo> rhys: we need an editor for it
14:13:20 <jo> ... jo and I were on the hook for it
14:13:27 <jo> ... does anyone want to edit it?
14:13:55 <jo> jo: I don't mind as long as the group is the principal contributor
14:14:09 <jo> andrew: I'll help - I hesitate to edit it though
14:14:20 <jo> rhys: i.e. contribute material
14:14:32 <jo> sean: I will help contribute too
14:14:45 <Rotan> +1 to contributing, actively.
14:14:54 <jo> rhys: any more for any more
14:15:03 <jo> ... thanks rotan
14:15:52 <Zakim> + +1.781.267.aaff
14:15:59 <DKA> I am calling Philipp.
14:16:05 <jo> rhys: think we should do a W3C note - fairly informal, not on the rec track, just for recording information - things like requirements
14:16:26 <jo> ... does ger formally published but only needs light review
14:16:36 <jo> ... anyone think we should do it differently?
14:16:45 <jo> ... by wiki maybe?
14:16:50 <skarim> To all having trouble dialing in : The Conference code is bpwg (2794) and not btcf as listed on the wesite
14:17:07 <jo> jo: thinks we should not do it on the wiki
14:17:14 <jo> andrew: do we have a wiki?
14:17:23 <DKA> ok.
14:17:29 <jo> rhys: yes, but it has very specific purposes
14:17:43 <DKA> oh
14:18:02 <jo> ... and the technology is in a state of flux - plus BPWG is not fully committed to wikification
14:18:27 <jo> ... so no disagreement
14:18:43 <jo> PROPOSED RESOLUTION: The problem statement will be published as a W3C note
14:18:46 <kemp> +1
14:18:51 <DKA> +1
14:18:53 <Rotan> +1
14:18:58 <Andrew> +1
14:19:02 <jo> RESOLUTION: The problem statement will be published as a W3C Note
14:19:40 <jo> rhys: the other thing to do was to look at the problem statement
14:19:47 <ph> ph has joined #bpwg
14:19:49 <jo> ... just a brain dump
14:20:02 <ph> hi - is the content adaptation TF using this channel?
14:20:14 <jo> --> problem statement: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-bpwg-ct/2007Jul/0001.html
14:20:35 <Rhys> yes this is the content adaptation TF meeting
14:20:37 <Rotan> Hi Philipp, yes, we are here.
14:20:43 <DKA> So is the problem with the dial-in resolved?
14:20:51 <DKA> Philipp wants to know if he should escalate.
14:20:58 <jo> rhys: any comments?
14:21:01 <Rotan> I'm using BCTF
14:21:25 <jo> andrew: it captures what we discussed correctly
14:21:33 <jo> ... just needs transcribing into a story
14:21:49 <jo> ???: agree that it is what we discussed
14:22:00 <jo> s/???/Sean/
14:22:01 <DKA> I'm confused.
14:22:20 <DKA> ok I will try bctf again.
14:22:35 <ph> matt, is there still an issue with people getting on the call?
14:22:41 <ph> i had danA on the line
14:22:44 <DKA> nope -- BCTF is still full.
14:22:52 <ph> ok
14:23:19 <DKA> (sorry to disrupt the call here -- but I think a lot of people are having trouble getting in)
14:23:46 <matt> zakim, room for 10?
14:23:47 <Zakim> ok, matt; conference Team_(bpwg)14:23Z scheduled with code 26631 (CONF1) for 60 minutes until 1523Z
14:23:58 <ph> so what we can apparently do is get a new code
14:24:06 <ph> i guess that's what matt is doing right now:)
14:24:10 <Rhys> Sorry to everyone who is trying to get in. We think that Zakim may only have 5 lines reserved for the BCTF call
14:24:57 <DKA> Ok I am on 26631
14:25:04 <Zakim> -Rob
14:25:08 <DKA> listening to no-one right now.
14:25:08 <Zakim> -kemp
14:25:21 <Zakim> -Andrew
14:25:27 <Zakim> -jo
14:25:29 <Zakim> -Rhys
14:25:31 <Zakim> -sean
14:25:45 <Zakim> - +1.781.267.aaff
14:25:47 <Zakim> MWI_BPWG()10:00AM has ended
14:25:48 <Zakim> Attendees were +0148373aaaa, Rhys, +1.630.414.aabb, jo, +1.519.880.aacc, +0789972aadd, +0207287aaee, Rob, sean, Andrew, kemp, +1.781.267.aaff
14:25:54 <matt> zakim, this is CONF1
14:25:54 <Zakim> ok, matt; that matches Team_(bpwg)14:23Z
14:25:57 <Zakim> +Andrew
14:25:59 <skarim> skarim has left #bpwg
14:26:13 <Zakim> +sean
14:26:46 <kemp> zakim who is here?
14:26:48 <Zakim> +Rhys
14:26:51 <matt> zakim, who is here?
14:26:51 <Zakim> On the phone I see DKA, kemp, Rob, Andrew, sean, Rhys
14:26:52 <Zakim> On IRC I see ph, DKA, Andrew, rob, matt, kemp, Rhys, Rotan, Zakim, RRSAgent, jo, trackbot-ng
14:27:27 <Zakim> +??P3
14:27:36 <jo> zakim, ??p3 is me
14:27:36 <Zakim> +jo; got it
14:27:43 <jo> scribenick: jo
14:27:48 <matt> rrsagent, draft minutes
14:27:48 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/07/31-bpwg-minutes.html matt
14:27:56 <matt> rrsagent, make minutes member
14:27:56 <RRSAgent> I'm logging. I don't understand 'make minutes member', matt.  Try /msg RRSAgent help
14:28:00 <matt> rrsagent, make logs member
14:28:08 <Zakim> +Rotan
14:28:20 <DKA> zakim, mute me
14:28:20 <Zakim> DKA should now be muted
14:28:26 <jo> rrsagent, make logs public
14:29:03 <Rhys> zakim, who is here?
14:29:03 <Zakim> On the phone I see DKA (muted), kemp, Rob, Andrew, sean, Rhys, jo, Rotan
14:29:05 <Zakim> On IRC I see ph, DKA, Andrew, rob, matt, kemp, Rhys, Rotan, Zakim, RRSAgent, jo, trackbot-ng
14:29:06 <jo> chair: rhys
14:29:20 <ph> ok, things are under control?
14:29:38 <ph> nobody being rejected by zakim?
14:29:38 <ph> ok
14:29:42 <ph> sorry about this!!
14:30:12 <jo> problem statement: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-bpwg-ct/2007Jul/0001.html
14:30:36 <ph> all right, have a good meeting then
14:30:46 <jo> Rhys: we were just discussing the problem statement and agreeing that it was OK
14:30:57 <Rotan> +1 to proposal to use these as the basis of formal problem statement.
14:31:18 <jo> PROPOSED RESOLUTION: Problem statement note will be built from the email in IRC above
14:31:42 <jo> PROPOSED RESOLUTION: Problem statement note will be built from the email at http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-bpwg-ct/2007Jul/0001.html
14:31:42 <kemp> +1
14:31:44 <Andrew> +1
14:31:55 <jo> RESOLUTION: Problem statement note will be built from the email at http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-bpwg-ct/2007Jul/0001.html
14:33:20 <jo> rhys: when will you have a draft Jo?
14:33:26 <jo> jo: er, early Spetember?
14:33:41 <jo> rhys: 2nd week in September then
14:34:16 <jo> rhys: so andrew and sean, if you have some thoughts on how to organise the problem statements and mail them to the list that would be useful
14:34:55 <jo> andrew: yes, I will aim to get this done before next call
14:35:03 <jo> rhys: best efforts
14:35:23 <jo> ACTION: Andrew to draft a structure for not within 2 weeks
14:35:24 <trackbot-ng> Created ACTION-533 - Draft a structure for not within 2 weeks [on Andrew Swainston - due 2007-08-07].
14:35:42 <jo> sean: I will coordinate with Andrew
14:36:05 <jo> rhys: any other contributions on problem statement document
14:36:15 <jo> s/document/document?/
14:36:25 <jo> Topic: Guidelines document
14:36:56 <jo> rhys: editors - jo and I had our necks on the block for this - anyone else?
14:37:09 <Rotan> Happy to volunteer to contrib material, but out of bandwidth for editorship.
14:37:36 <jo> rhys: so if ok with Jo, I'll do the initial work on this
14:37:42 <kemp> also want to contribute
14:37:54 <jo> ... I guess that lots of people will be interested in contributing on this
14:38:12 <jo> ... there is a breadth of experience etc needed so lots of people will want to contribute
14:38:21 <jo> ... please indicate now if that is so ...
14:38:24 <Andrew> I wish to contribute
14:38:59 <jo> kemp: I cant edit but want to contribute
14:39:14 <jo> rhys: the place to start is probably with the section heads
14:39:43 <jo> ... initial publication as a WD we can take it as far as we wish to go
14:39:55 <jo> ... we have talked about normative vs non-normative
14:40:11 <jo> ... we can decide on REC track document status later
14:40:28 <jo> ... anyone disagree on doing a WD
14:40:58 <jo> PROPOSED RESOLUTION: First publication of the guidelines will be a W3C Working Draft
14:41:17 <jo> RESOLUTION: First publication of the guidelines will be a W3C Working Draft
14:42:27 <jo> Rhys: we can probably have a table of contents by 2nd week in September...
14:43:11 <jo> ACTION: Rhys to draft a table of contents of the Guidelines document by 10 Sept
14:43:11 <trackbot-ng> Created ACTION-534 - Draft a table of contents of the Guidelines document by 10 Sept [on Rhys Lewis - due 2007-08-07].
14:43:20 <Rotan> Comments on a wiki pointing to the evolving docs might be useful, if only we had a nice wiki :)
14:43:34 <jo> rhys: any other comments on the 2 docs?
14:44:08 <Rhys> http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/TaskForces/CT/Overview.html
14:44:30 <jo> Topic: TF Home Page
14:44:40 <jo> --> http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/TaskForces/CT/Overview.html 
14:45:09 <jo> rhys: quite a lot up to date and correct - as we create document we'll add links to the page
14:45:24 <jo> ... thanks to Jo for putting together
14:45:28 <DKA> q+
14:45:31 <DKA> zakim, unmute me
14:45:31 <Zakim> DKA should no longer be muted
14:45:36 <jo> ... anyone want to see anything else there
14:45:58 <jo> dka: do we want to put in any kind of wiki together?
14:46:12 <jo> rhys: at the moment we don't need to do a wiki
14:46:16 <Rotan> +1 to trying something wiki-like for comments on the main line-items.
14:46:31 <Rotan> Blogging works for me too.
14:46:31 <jo> ... we did talk about doing a blog rather than a wiki
14:46:38 <jo> ack dka
14:46:59 <jo> andrew: when we discussed wiki it was in the context of the problem statement
14:47:13 <jo> ... I think that for the guidelines it would be useful
14:47:32 <jo> rhys: there are a couple of ways of using a wiki - a) as information dissemination
14:48:01 <jo> ... my only hesitation is that material we put into the wiki now might need to be converted to a different technology later
14:48:18 <jo> ... but if there is a burning desire to use one then that would be ok
14:48:36 <jo> ... other groups have found that the email lists etc, is an effective way to work
14:48:55 <jo> ... so alternatives to wikis can be effective
14:49:08 <jo> ... and that the BP group thinks that's an OK way to work
14:49:14 <Rotan> [I'm working on a wiki-to-wiki transfer for existing W3C docs, as a skunk-works activity. No promises!]
14:49:33 <jo> ... think that DKA's point was about communicating with the otside world
14:49:41 <jo> DKA: think its blurry
14:50:06 <jo> [scribe can't hear DKA]
14:50:52 <Rotan> [Yes, I'm doing a wiki-to-XMLSpec too. Such a pain!]
14:50:55 <jo> rhys: in the DD group we have to transform from wiki to document format
14:51:13 <jo> ... if people think we should do it by wiki then that is what we should do
14:51:19 <jo> q?
14:51:22 <jo> ack and
14:51:39 <jo> q+
14:52:12 <jo> ack me
14:52:40 <jo> jo: think that anything that makes it more laborious for the editors is counter-productive
14:52:52 <jo> rhys: would prefer to receive by email
14:52:59 <jo> dka: [muffled]
14:53:03 <Andrew> I am happy with Rhys' approach
14:53:13 <kemp> +1 to email, easy to keep up to date
14:53:21 <Rotan> Perhaps we need a TF on wiki authoring and adaptation of wiki content :)
14:53:36 <jo> rhys: that's my opinion but if there is strong opinion in group tat we should review that then would be happy to listen
14:53:50 <rob> +1 to whatever editors are comfortable with
14:54:07 <jo> rhys: did not hear any adverse comments on TF home page
14:54:20 <jo> Topic: Any other business
14:54:34 <jo> [silence]
14:54:53 <jo> rhys: so we are through the agenda, thanks to everyone for being on the call
14:55:30 <jo> ... let's have a call in 2 weeks time and meantime increase the number of lines on the call to around 12
14:55:49 <jo> ACTION: Matt to increase number of lines on BCTF
14:55:50 <trackbot-ng> Created ACTION-535 - Increase number of lines on BCTF [on Matt Womer - due 2007-08-07].
14:55:58 <Zakim> -Rhys
14:56:00 <Zakim> -kemp
14:56:01 <jo> [ends]
14:56:01 <Zakim> -Rob
14:56:02 <Andrew> quit
14:56:02 <Zakim> -DKA
14:56:04 <rob> rob has left #bpwg
14:56:05 <Zakim> -Rotan
14:56:07 <jo> rrsagent, draft minutes
14:56:07 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/07/31-bpwg-minutes.html jo
14:56:07 <Zakim> -sean
14:56:16 <jo> zakim, who is here?
14:56:16 <Zakim> On the phone I see Andrew, jo
14:56:17 <Zakim> On IRC I see ph, Andrew, matt, kemp, Rhys, Rotan, Zakim, RRSAgent, jo, trackbot-ng
14:56:21 <Zakim> -Andrew
14:56:23 <jo> zakim, drop andrew
14:56:23 <Zakim> sorry, jo, I do not see a party named 'andrew'
14:56:30 <jo> zakim, drop me
14:56:30 <Zakim> jo is being disconnected
14:56:32 <Zakim> Team_(bpwg)14:23Z has ended
14:56:33 <Zakim> Attendees were DKA, kemp, Rob, Andrew, sean, Rhys, jo, Rotan
14:56:39 <ph> ph has left #bpwg
14:56:48 <jo> rrsagent, draft minutes
14:56:48 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/07/31-bpwg-minutes.html jo
14:56:50 <Rotan> Rotan has left #bpwg
14:56:54 <jo> zakim, bye
14:56:59 <Zakim> Zakim has left #bpwg
14:57:00 <Andrew> Zakim, drop me
14:59:25 <jo> Present: Rhys, Jo, Rotan, DKA, Matt, Sean, Andrew, Kemp, Rob
14:59:36 <jo> rrsagent, draft minutes
14:59:36 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/07/31-bpwg-minutes.html jo
14:59:47 <matt> Present- Matt
14:59:58 <jo> rrsagent, draft minutes
14:59:58 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/07/31-bpwg-minutes.html jo
15:00:15 <jo> :-)
15:14:07 <jo> jo has left #bpwg
15:42:52 <Andrew> Zakim, pls list participants
15:56:51 <matt> matt has left #bpwg