IRC log of bpwg on 2007-07-31

Timestamps are in UTC.

13:49:20 [RRSAgent]

RRSAgent has joined #bpwg

13:49:20 [RRSAgent]

logging to http://www.w3.org/2007/07/31-bpwg-irc

13:49:22 [trackbot-ng]

RRSAgent, make logs member

13:49:23 [Zakim]

Zakim has joined #bpwg

13:49:25 [trackbot-ng]

Zakim, this will be BPWG

13:49:25 [Zakim]

ok, trackbot-ng; I see MWI_BPWG()10:00AM scheduled to start in 11 minutes

13:49:27 [trackbot-ng]

Meeting: Mobile Web Best Practices Working Group Teleconference

13:49:29 [trackbot-ng]

Date: 31 July 2007

13:49:53 [jo]

zakim, this will be bctf

13:49:53 [Zakim]

ok, jo; I see MWI_BPWG()10:00AM scheduled to start in 11 minutes

13:51:07 [jo]

zakim, code

13:51:07 [Zakim]

I don't understand 'code', jo

13:51:14 [jo]

zakim, code?

13:51:14 [Zakim]

the conference code is 2283 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), jo

13:53:09 [roland]

roland has joined #bpwg

13:56:22 [Rotan]

Rotan has joined #bpwg

13:57:05 [Rhys]

Rhys has joined #bpwg

13:57:22 [roland]

roland has left #bpwg

13:58:12 [Zakim]

MWI_BPWG()10:00AM has now started

13:58:14 [Zakim]

+ +0148373aaaa

13:58:32 [Rhys]

Zakim, aaaa is Rhys

13:58:32 [Zakim]

+Rhys; got it

13:58:41 [Rhys]

Zakin, who is here

13:58:45 [Rhys]

Zakim, who is here

13:58:45 [Zakim]

Rhys, you need to end that query with '?'

13:58:49 [Rhys]

Zakim, who is here?

13:58:49 [Zakim]

On the phone I see Rhys

13:58:51 [Zakim]

On IRC I see Rhys, Rotan, Zakim, RRSAgent, jo, trackbot-ng

13:58:52 [Zakim]

+ +1.630.414.aabb

13:58:53 [Zakim]

- +1.630.414.aabb

13:58:54 [Zakim]

+ +1.630.414.aabb

13:58:56 [roland]

roland has joined #bpwg

13:59:36 [Zakim]

+??P24

13:59:47 [jo]

zakim, ??p24 is jo

13:59:47 [Zakim]

+jo; got it

14:00:38 [Zakim]

+ +1.519.880.aacc

14:01:07 [kemp]

kemp has joined #bpwg

14:01:18 [matt]

matt has joined #bpwg

14:01:35 [rob]

rob has joined #bpwg

14:01:41 [roland]

roland has left #bpwg

14:01:45 [Zakim]

+ +0789972aadd

14:01:52 [Andrew]

Andrew has joined #bpwg

14:02:32 [Zakim]

+ +0207287aaee

14:03:02 [jo]

zakim, aaee is Rob

14:03:02 [Zakim]

+Rob; got it

14:03:52 [jo]

zakim, aacc is aaron

14:03:52 [Zakim]

+aaron; got it

14:04:12 [jo]

zakim, who is here?

14:04:12 [Zakim]

On the phone I see Rhys, +1.630.414.aabb, jo, aaron, +0789972aadd, Rob

14:04:13 [Zakim]

On IRC I see Andrew, rob, matt, kemp, Rhys, Rotan, Zakim, RRSAgent, jo, trackbot-ng

14:04:17 [kemp]

zakim, kemp is aaron

14:04:17 [Zakim]

sorry, kemp, I do not recognize a party named 'kemp'

14:04:35 [jo]

zakim, aacc is sean

14:04:35 [Zakim]

sorry, jo, I do not recognize a party named 'aacc'

14:04:56 [Rhys]

Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-bpwg/2007Jul/0086.html

14:04:58 [jo]

zakim, aabb is sean

14:04:58 [Zakim]

+sean; got it

14:05:31 [jo]

zakim, aadd is Andrew

14:05:31 [Zakim]

+Andrew; got it

14:05:45 [jo]

zakim, who is here

14:05:46 [Zakim]

jo, you need to end that query with '?'

14:05:54 [jo]

zakim, who is here?

14:05:54 [Zakim]

On the phone I see Rhys, sean, jo, aaron, Andrew, Rob

14:05:55 [Zakim]

On IRC I see Andrew, rob, matt, kemp, Rhys, Rotan, Zakim, RRSAgent, jo, trackbot-ng

14:06:41 [jo]

zakim, aaron is kemp

14:06:41 [Zakim]

+kemp; got it

14:07:15 [jo]

scribenick: jo

14:07:21 [jo]

scribe: Jo

14:08:57 [skarim]

skarim has joined #bpwg

14:09:33 [jo]

--> mailing list: mailto:public-bpwg-ct@w3.org

14:09:55 [jo]

archive --> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-bpwg-ct/

14:10:48 [jo]

Topic: Problem Statement Document

14:11:36 [jo]

rhys: definition of the problem we are trying to solve, a number of audiences we are trying to address in the other doc but first we need to define the problem

14:11:45 [DKA]

DKA has joined #bpwg

14:11:47 [skarim]

* Shah also notes that Zakim lines are full.

14:12:02 [jo]

... we brainstormed some items at the F2F

14:12:04 [DKA]

Hi all -- getting "this conference is full" error from Zakim...

14:12:25 [jo]

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-bpwg-ct/2007Jul/0001.html

14:12:37 [Rotan]

Seems the W3C has bouncers on the door :(

14:13:05 [jo]

rhys: we need an editor for it

14:13:20 [jo]

... jo and I were on the hook for it

14:13:27 [jo]

... does anyone want to edit it?

14:13:55 [jo]

jo: I don't mind as long as the group is the principal contributor

14:14:09 [jo]

andrew: I'll help - I hesitate to edit it though

14:14:20 [jo]

rhys: i.e. contribute material

14:14:32 [jo]

sean: I will help contribute too

14:14:45 [Rotan]

+1 to contributing, actively.

14:14:54 [jo]

rhys: any more for any more

14:15:03 [jo]

... thanks rotan

14:15:52 [Zakim]

+ +1.781.267.aaff

14:15:59 [DKA]

I am calling Philipp.

14:16:05 [jo]

rhys: think we should do a W3C note - fairly informal, not on the rec track, just for recording information - things like requirements

14:16:26 [jo]

... does ger formally published but only needs light review

14:16:36 [jo]

... anyone think we should do it differently?

14:16:45 [jo]

... by wiki maybe?

14:16:50 [skarim]

To all having trouble dialing in : The Conference code is bpwg (2794) and not btcf as listed on the wesite

14:17:07 [jo]

jo: thinks we should not do it on the wiki

14:17:14 [jo]

andrew: do we have a wiki?

14:17:23 [DKA]

ok.

14:17:29 [jo]

rhys: yes, but it has very specific purposes

14:17:43 [DKA]

oh

14:18:02 [jo]

... and the technology is in a state of flux - plus BPWG is not fully committed to wikification

14:18:27 [jo]

... so no disagreement

14:18:43 [jo]

PROPOSED RESOLUTION: The problem statement will be published as a W3C note

14:18:46 [kemp]

+1

14:18:51 [DKA]

+1

14:18:53 [Rotan]

+1

14:18:58 [Andrew]

+1

14:19:02 [jo]

RESOLUTION: The problem statement will be published as a W3C Note

14:19:40 [jo]

rhys: the other thing to do was to look at the problem statement

14:19:47 [ph]

ph has joined #bpwg

14:19:49 [jo]

... just a brain dump

14:20:02 [ph]

hi - is the content adaptation TF using this channel?

14:20:14 [jo]

--> problem statement: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-bpwg-ct/2007Jul/0001.html

14:20:35 [Rhys]

yes this is the content adaptation TF meeting

14:20:37 [Rotan]

Hi Philipp, yes, we are here.

14:20:43 [DKA]

So is the problem with the dial-in resolved?

14:20:51 [DKA]

Philipp wants to know if he should escalate.

14:20:58 [jo]

rhys: any comments?

14:21:01 [Rotan]

I'm using BCTF

14:21:25 [jo]

andrew: it captures what we discussed correctly

14:21:33 [jo]

... just needs transcribing into a story

14:21:49 [jo]

???: agree that it is what we discussed

14:22:00 [jo]

s/???/Sean/

14:22:01 [DKA]

I'm confused.

14:22:20 [DKA]

ok I will try bctf again.

14:22:35 [ph]

matt, is there still an issue with people getting on the call?

14:22:41 [ph]

i had danA on the line

14:22:44 [DKA]

nope -- BCTF is still full.

14:22:52 [ph]

ok

14:23:19 [DKA]

(sorry to disrupt the call here -- but I think a lot of people are having trouble getting in)

14:23:46 [matt]

zakim, room for 10?

14:23:47 [Zakim]

ok, matt; conference Team_(bpwg)14:23Z scheduled with code 26631 (CONF1) for 60 minutes until 1523Z

14:23:58 [ph]

so what we can apparently do is get a new code

14:24:06 [ph]

i guess that's what matt is doing right now:)

14:24:10 [Rhys]

Sorry to everyone who is trying to get in. We think that Zakim may only have 5 lines reserved for the BCTF call

14:24:57 [DKA]

Ok I am on 26631

14:25:04 [Zakim]

-Rob

14:25:08 [DKA]

listening to no-one right now.

14:25:08 [Zakim]

-kemp

14:25:21 [Zakim]

-Andrew

14:25:27 [Zakim]

-jo

14:25:29 [Zakim]

-Rhys

14:25:31 [Zakim]

-sean

14:25:45 [Zakim]

- +1.781.267.aaff

14:25:47 [Zakim]

MWI_BPWG()10:00AM has ended

14:25:48 [Zakim]

Attendees were +0148373aaaa, Rhys, +1.630.414.aabb, jo, +1.519.880.aacc, +0789972aadd, +0207287aaee, Rob, sean, Andrew, kemp, +1.781.267.aaff

14:25:54 [matt]

zakim, this is CONF1

14:25:54 [Zakim]

ok, matt; that matches Team_(bpwg)14:23Z

14:25:57 [Zakim]

+Andrew

14:25:59 [skarim]

skarim has left #bpwg

14:26:13 [Zakim]

+sean

14:26:46 [kemp]

zakim who is here?

14:26:48 [Zakim]

+Rhys

14:26:51 [matt]

zakim, who is here?

14:26:51 [Zakim]

On the phone I see DKA, kemp, Rob, Andrew, sean, Rhys

14:26:52 [Zakim]

On IRC I see ph, DKA, Andrew, rob, matt, kemp, Rhys, Rotan, Zakim, RRSAgent, jo, trackbot-ng

14:27:27 [Zakim]

+??P3

14:27:36 [jo]

zakim, ??p3 is me

14:27:36 [Zakim]

+jo; got it

14:27:43 [jo]

scribenick: jo

14:27:48 [matt]

rrsagent, draft minutes

14:27:48 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/07/31-bpwg-minutes.html matt

14:27:56 [matt]

rrsagent, make minutes member

14:27:56 [RRSAgent]

I'm logging. I don't understand 'make minutes member', matt. Try /msg RRSAgent help

14:28:00 [matt]

rrsagent, make logs member

14:28:08 [Zakim]

+Rotan

14:28:20 [DKA]

zakim, mute me

14:28:20 [Zakim]

DKA should now be muted

14:28:26 [jo]

rrsagent, make logs public

14:29:03 [Rhys]

zakim, who is here?

14:29:03 [Zakim]

On the phone I see DKA (muted), kemp, Rob, Andrew, sean, Rhys, jo, Rotan

14:29:05 [Zakim]

On IRC I see ph, DKA, Andrew, rob, matt, kemp, Rhys, Rotan, Zakim, RRSAgent, jo, trackbot-ng

14:29:06 [jo]

chair: rhys

14:29:20 [ph]

ok, things are under control?

14:29:38 [ph]

nobody being rejected by zakim?

14:29:38 [ph]

ok

14:29:42 [ph]

sorry about this!!

14:30:12 [jo]

problem statement: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-bpwg-ct/2007Jul/0001.html

14:30:36 [ph]

all right, have a good meeting then

14:30:46 [jo]

Rhys: we were just discussing the problem statement and agreeing that it was OK

14:30:57 [Rotan]

+1 to proposal to use these as the basis of formal problem statement.

14:31:18 [jo]

PROPOSED RESOLUTION: Problem statement note will be built from the email in IRC above

14:31:42 [jo]

PROPOSED RESOLUTION: Problem statement note will be built from the email at http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-bpwg-ct/2007Jul/0001.html

14:31:42 [kemp]

+1

14:31:44 [Andrew]

+1

14:31:55 [jo]

RESOLUTION: Problem statement note will be built from the email at http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-bpwg-ct/2007Jul/0001.html

14:33:20 [jo]

rhys: when will you have a draft Jo?

14:33:26 [jo]

jo: er, early Spetember?

14:33:41 [jo]

rhys: 2nd week in September then

14:34:16 [jo]

rhys: so andrew and sean, if you have some thoughts on how to organise the problem statements and mail them to the list that would be useful

14:34:55 [jo]

andrew: yes, I will aim to get this done before next call

14:35:03 [jo]

rhys: best efforts

14:35:23 [jo]

ACTION: Andrew to draft a structure for not within 2 weeks

14:35:24 [trackbot-ng]

Created ACTION-533 - Draft a structure for not within 2 weeks [on Andrew Swainston - due 2007-08-07].

14:35:42 [jo]

sean: I will coordinate with Andrew

14:36:05 [jo]

rhys: any other contributions on problem statement document

14:36:15 [jo]

s/document/document?/

14:36:25 [jo]

Topic: Guidelines document

14:36:56 [jo]

rhys: editors - jo and I had our necks on the block for this - anyone else?

14:37:09 [Rotan]

Happy to volunteer to contrib material, but out of bandwidth for editorship.

14:37:36 [jo]

rhys: so if ok with Jo, I'll do the initial work on this

14:37:42 [kemp]

also want to contribute

14:37:54 [jo]

... I guess that lots of people will be interested in contributing on this

14:38:12 [jo]

... there is a breadth of experience etc needed so lots of people will want to contribute

14:38:21 [jo]

... please indicate now if that is so ...

14:38:24 [Andrew]

I wish to contribute

14:38:59 [jo]

kemp: I cant edit but want to contribute

14:39:14 [jo]

rhys: the place to start is probably with the section heads

14:39:43 [jo]

... initial publication as a WD we can take it as far as we wish to go

14:39:55 [jo]

... we have talked about normative vs non-normative

14:40:11 [jo]

... we can decide on REC track document status later

14:40:28 [jo]

... anyone disagree on doing a WD

14:40:58 [jo]

PROPOSED RESOLUTION: First publication of the guidelines will be a W3C Working Draft

14:41:17 [jo]

RESOLUTION: First publication of the guidelines will be a W3C Working Draft

14:42:27 [jo]

Rhys: we can probably have a table of contents by 2nd week in September...

14:43:11 [jo]

ACTION: Rhys to draft a table of contents of the Guidelines document by 10 Sept

14:43:11 [trackbot-ng]

Created ACTION-534 - Draft a table of contents of the Guidelines document by 10 Sept [on Rhys Lewis - due 2007-08-07].

14:43:20 [Rotan]

Comments on a wiki pointing to the evolving docs might be useful, if only we had a nice wiki :)

14:43:34 [jo]

rhys: any other comments on the 2 docs?

14:44:08 [Rhys]

http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/TaskForces/CT/Overview.html

14:44:30 [jo]

Topic: TF Home Page

14:44:40 [jo]

--> http://www.w3.org/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/TaskForces/CT/Overview.html

14:45:09 [jo]

rhys: quite a lot up to date and correct - as we create document we'll add links to the page

14:45:24 [jo]

... thanks to Jo for putting together

14:45:28 [DKA]

q+

14:45:31 [DKA]

zakim, unmute me

14:45:31 [Zakim]

DKA should no longer be muted

14:45:36 [jo]

... anyone want to see anything else there

14:45:58 [jo]

dka: do we want to put in any kind of wiki together?

14:46:12 [jo]

rhys: at the moment we don't need to do a wiki

14:46:16 [Rotan]

+1 to trying something wiki-like for comments on the main line-items.

14:46:31 [Rotan]

Blogging works for me too.

14:46:31 [jo]

... we did talk about doing a blog rather than a wiki

14:46:38 [jo]

ack dka

14:46:59 [jo]

andrew: when we discussed wiki it was in the context of the problem statement

14:47:13 [jo]

... I think that for the guidelines it would be useful

14:47:32 [jo]

rhys: there are a couple of ways of using a wiki - a) as information dissemination

14:48:01 [jo]

... my only hesitation is that material we put into the wiki now might need to be converted to a different technology later

14:48:18 [jo]

... but if there is a burning desire to use one then that would be ok

14:48:36 [jo]

... other groups have found that the email lists etc, is an effective way to work

14:48:55 [jo]

... so alternatives to wikis can be effective

14:49:08 [jo]

... and that the BP group thinks that's an OK way to work

14:49:14 [Rotan]

[I'm working on a wiki-to-wiki transfer for existing W3C docs, as a skunk-works activity. No promises!]

14:49:33 [jo]

... think that DKA's point was about communicating with the otside world

14:49:41 [jo]

DKA: think its blurry

14:50:06 [jo]

[scribe can't hear DKA]

14:50:52 [Rotan]

[Yes, I'm doing a wiki-to-XMLSpec too. Such a pain!]

14:50:55 [jo]

rhys: in the DD group we have to transform from wiki to document format

14:51:13 [jo]

... if people think we should do it by wiki then that is what we should do

14:51:19 [jo]

q?

14:51:22 [jo]

ack and

14:51:39 [jo]

q+

14:52:12 [jo]

ack me

14:52:40 [jo]

jo: think that anything that makes it more laborious for the editors is counter-productive

14:52:52 [jo]

rhys: would prefer to receive by email

14:52:59 [jo]

dka: [muffled]

14:53:03 [Andrew]

I am happy with Rhys' approach

14:53:13 [kemp]

+1 to email, easy to keep up to date

14:53:21 [Rotan]

Perhaps we need a TF on wiki authoring and adaptation of wiki content :)

14:53:36 [jo]

rhys: that's my opinion but if there is strong opinion in group tat we should review that then would be happy to listen

14:53:50 [rob]

+1 to whatever editors are comfortable with

14:54:07 [jo]

rhys: did not hear any adverse comments on TF home page

14:54:20 [jo]

Topic: Any other business

14:54:34 [jo]

[silence]

14:54:53 [jo]

rhys: so we are through the agenda, thanks to everyone for being on the call

14:55:30 [jo]

... let's have a call in 2 weeks time and meantime increase the number of lines on the call to around 12

14:55:49 [jo]

ACTION: Matt to increase number of lines on BCTF

14:55:50 [trackbot-ng]

Created ACTION-535 - Increase number of lines on BCTF [on Matt Womer - due 2007-08-07].

14:55:58 [Zakim]

-Rhys

14:56:00 [Zakim]

-kemp

14:56:01 [jo]

[ends]

14:56:01 [Zakim]

-Rob

14:56:02 [Andrew]

quit

14:56:02 [Zakim]

-DKA

14:56:04 [rob]

rob has left #bpwg

14:56:05 [Zakim]

-Rotan

14:56:07 [jo]

rrsagent, draft minutes

14:56:07 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/07/31-bpwg-minutes.html jo

14:56:07 [Zakim]

-sean

14:56:16 [jo]

zakim, who is here?

14:56:16 [Zakim]

On the phone I see Andrew, jo

14:56:17 [Zakim]

On IRC I see ph, Andrew, matt, kemp, Rhys, Rotan, Zakim, RRSAgent, jo, trackbot-ng

14:56:21 [Zakim]

-Andrew

14:56:23 [jo]

zakim, drop andrew

14:56:23 [Zakim]

sorry, jo, I do not see a party named 'andrew'

14:56:30 [jo]

zakim, drop me

14:56:30 [Zakim]

jo is being disconnected

14:56:32 [Zakim]

Team_(bpwg)14:23Z has ended

14:56:33 [Zakim]

Attendees were DKA, kemp, Rob, Andrew, sean, Rhys, jo, Rotan

14:56:39 [ph]

ph has left #bpwg

14:56:48 [jo]

rrsagent, draft minutes

14:56:48 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/07/31-bpwg-minutes.html jo

14:56:50 [Rotan]

Rotan has left #bpwg

14:56:54 [jo]

zakim, bye

14:56:59 [Zakim]

Zakim has left #bpwg

14:57:00 [Andrew]

Zakim, drop me

14:59:25 [jo]

Present: Rhys, Jo, Rotan, DKA, Matt, Sean, Andrew, Kemp, Rob

14:59:36 [jo]

rrsagent, draft minutes

14:59:36 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/07/31-bpwg-minutes.html jo

14:59:47 [matt]

Present- Matt

14:59:58 [jo]

rrsagent, draft minutes

14:59:58 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/07/31-bpwg-minutes.html jo

15:00:15 [jo]

:-)

15:14:07 [jo]

jo has left #bpwg

15:42:52 [Andrew]

Zakim, pls list participants

15:56:51 [matt]

matt has left #bpwg