IRC log of html-wg on 2007-07-12

Timestamps are in UTC.

16:52:58 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #html-wg
16:52:58 [RRSAgent]
logging to
16:53:02 [CarolK]
CarolK has joined #html-wg
16:55:21 [Zakim]
HTML_WG()1:00PM has now started
16:55:29 [Zakim]
+ +49.251.280.aaaa
16:57:20 [Zakim]
16:57:32 [Zakim]
16:57:52 [DanC]
Zakim, aaaa is Julian
16:57:52 [Zakim]
+Julian; got it
16:58:34 [DanC]
-> previous teleconference, 26 April
16:58:58 [DanC]
ACTION: ChrisW to try to find a Seattle/OZ/Asia time [CONTINUES]
16:59:59 [DanC]
ACTION: DanC to call for forms tf volunteers (with review from John B.) [DONE]
17:00:09 [DanC]
-> forms task force volunteers? (tasks survey)
17:00:30 [DanC]
ACTION: DanC to put the HTML spec baseline discussion by WBS in the next day or so [DONE]
17:00:47 [DanC]
ACTION: DougS to review and advise the WG on whether to publish for community review, or whether critical problems remain [DONE]
17:00:55 [DanC]
ACTION: IanH to review and advise the WG on whether to publish for community review, or whether critical problems remain [DONE]
17:01:02 [DanC]
Zakim, take up item 1
17:01:02 [Zakim]
agendum 1. "Convene HTML WG meeting of 2007-07-12T17:00:00Z" taken up [from DanC]
17:01:10 [DanC]
Zakim, who's on the phone?
17:01:10 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Julian, DanC, Gregory_Rosmaita
17:01:37 [Zakim]
17:01:58 [hsivonen]
this is hsivonen
17:01:59 [DanC]
Zakim, ??P3 hsivonen
17:01:59 [Zakim]
I don't understand '??P3 hsivonen', DanC
17:02:04 [DanC]
Zakim, ??P3 is hsivonen
17:02:04 [Zakim]
+hsivonen; got it
17:02:50 [DanC]
17:02:58 [DanC]
(see also )
17:03:02 [Zakim]
+ +49.208.829.0.aabb
17:03:17 [jgraham_]
jgraham_ has joined #html-wg
17:03:55 [DanC]
Zakim, aabb is Marcin_Hanclik
17:03:55 [Zakim]
+Marcin_Hanclik; got it
17:04:19 [DanC]
(found the name in )
17:05:27 [DanC]
regrets: mjs, Hickson, AnnevK
17:05:43 [oedipus]
is anyone else going to call into the telecon? there are only 5 of us on the phone
17:06:36 [DanC]
Zakim, next item
17:06:36 [Zakim]
agendum 2. "Detailed Spec Reviews, progress update" taken up [from DanC]
17:06:59 [DanC]
-> review schedule
17:07:32 [DanC]
Zakim, who's on the phone?
17:07:32 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Julian, DanC, Gregory_Rosmaita, hsivonen, Marcin_Hanclik
17:08:00 [oedipus]
Zakim teleconference bridge: +1.617.761.6200 or + or +44.117.370.6152 confernce code: HTML#
17:08:31 [oedipus]
HTML# equals 4865#
17:09:00 [DanC]
DanC: I'm still hoping to review the intro by 15 June, but it's somewhat at risk
17:09:18 [DanC]
hsivonen: the namespace section is one sentence; I did that. I'm on schedule for the other stuff.
17:09:59 [DanC]
... I sent some comments on the parsing section. see msgs with subject "detailed review"
17:10:27 [DanC]
17:10:30 [oedipus]
Henri's Review:
17:11:43 [DanC]
17:12:52 [DanC]
# 2007-06-30 Debi Orton
17:12:59 [DanC]
2007-06-30 Marco Neumann
17:13:05 [DanC]
2007-06-30 Robert Burns
17:13:11 [DanC]
I think I saw some from Robert Burns
17:13:31 [hsivonen]
I've seen detailed review from myself, zcorpan, gsnedders and Rob Burns
17:14:10 [gsnedders]
I'm just converting the number tests over to JSON as we speak
17:14:47 [DanC]
DanC: goal is to have each section read by at least 2 WG members by the end of July or August
17:15:54 [rburns]
rburns has joined #html-wg
17:16:16 [DanC]
... I don't expect we'll fix the issues that get raised before publishing, but we'll have some knowledge of what we're publishing
17:16:19 [DanC]
Zakim, next item
17:16:19 [Zakim]
agendum 3. "Test suite organization" taken up [from DanC]
17:16:28 [DanC]
17:17:36 [hsivonen]
17:17:52 [DanC]
17:17:57 [DanC]
ack hsivonen
17:18:47 [DanC]
hsivonen: Anne and [forgot already] have done a bunch of good stuff; it would be nice to have a manifest. then the html5lib has the best parser tests; that's where contributions are going
17:18:59 [DanC]
s/[forgot already]/Simon Peters/
17:19:39 [hsivonen]
17:19:58 [DanC]
ack hsivonen
17:23:26 [dbaron]
dbaron has joined #html-wg
17:24:52 [DanC]
hsivonen: perhaps a simple manifest, conforming.txt that lists good files
17:27:46 [DanC]
DanC: there's collaboration logistics... and I'm obliged to bring up copyright/license issues sooner rather than later
17:28:10 [DanC]
hsivonen: some html5lib stuff is MIT/expat, some from google is Apache license
17:28:22 [DanC]
... copyright by individuals, I suppose
17:28:36 [DanC]
(goodness, philip taylor?)
17:30:13 [Philip`]
(There's two Philip Taylors - the one doing tests is not the one doing, er, whatever he's doing on the list)
17:30:14 [DanC]
DanC: in order for this WG to use these tests, they should be contributed to the WG
17:30:18 [Zakim]
17:30:29 [DanC]
Zakim, ??P5 is Arun
17:30:29 [Zakim]
+Arun; got it
17:30:45 [hsivonen]
DanC, the Philip Taylor I mentioned just showed up
17:31:06 [jgraham_]
If there's anything in html5lib that isn't MIT licensed it should be removed
17:31:12 [DanC]
17:31:16 [DanC]
Grant II: Grant of License for Contributed Test Cases Published Outside a W3C Recommendation
17:32:18 [DanC]
DanC: and write access to the html5lib stuff?
17:32:26 [DanC]
hsivonen: Anne and James handle that
17:32:46 [arun]
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17:33:43 [Sander]
Sander has joined #html-wg
17:34:05 [jgraham_]
html5lib write access is on an as-required basis at the moment.
17:34:30 [jgraham_]
But the tests could always be hosted somewhere else
17:34:46 [DanC]
I'm interested in decentralized hosting using hg/bzr/git
17:35:11 [DanC]
Zakim, next item
17:35:11 [Zakim]
agendum 4. "Email traffic shaping" taken up [from DanC]
17:35:42 [oedipus]
use [test] as a subject-line marker, results posted to the list as part of the thread; one test per post
17:37:19 [hsivonen]
17:38:40 [DanC]
ack hsivonen
17:42:38 [hsivonen]
I find a mailing list easier to keep track of than wikis
17:43:21 [hsivonen]
17:43:29 [Julian]
The noise ratio is a big problem; it's really easy to miss important announcements.
17:43:49 [arun]
heiki, are you able to follow all threads? are there threads you're watching more than usual?
17:44:00 [DanC]
ack hsivonen
17:44:07 [arun]
sorry, heiki = henri
17:44:11 [arun]
17:44:55 [arun]
+1 henri
17:44:58 [jgraham_]
Big announcements could go on the homepage feed
17:45:02 [oedipus]
convergence of wiki materials -- ESW and WHAT WG wikis need to at least be able to map to one another, running 2 wikis working on the same project sounds to me like a recipie for a migraine
17:45:42 [hsivonen]
arun: I read all the messages to public-html.
17:46:05 [DanC]
big announcements do go on the WG homepage, but with a latency of ~1 week
17:46:54 [DanC]
Zakim, next item
17:46:54 [Zakim]
agendum 5. "Tutorial Development" taken up [from DanC]
17:47:21 [Julian]
DanC: I guess the WG homepage needs an Atom feed, then :-)
17:47:28 [DanC]
DanC: 40+ ppl indicated interest, but we don't have a draft. I wonder if a mailing list would help.
17:48:31 [DanC]
Zakim, next item
17:48:32 [Zakim]
I do not see any non-closed or non-skipped agenda items, DanC
17:49:06 [DanC]
Topic: next teleconference?
17:50:18 [Zakim]
17:50:19 [Zakim]
17:50:21 [Zakim]
17:50:22 [Zakim]
17:50:49 [Zakim]
17:50:53 [DanC]
next teleconference maybe in a week. i.e. the WG is hereby given its 7 day notice. An agenda or cancellation notice will go out by T-24hrs.
17:51:01 [DanC]
17:51:14 [DanC]
Meeting: HTML WG Teleconference
17:51:16 [DanC]
Chair: DanC
17:51:18 [DanC]
Scribe: DanC
17:51:22 [DanC]
RRSAgent, draft minutes
17:51:22 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate DanC
17:58:16 [jgraham_]
hsivonen: Do you have a testcase for the frameset bug in html5lib you mentioned this morning?
17:59:03 [hsivonen]
jgraham_: not yet :-)
17:59:33 [jgraham_]
OK, I'm just likely to forget to look at it unless some testcase fails :)
18:04:12 [DanC]
RRSAgent, make logs world-access
18:05:09 [DanC]
Zakim, list participants
18:05:09 [Zakim]
As of this point the attendees have been +49.251.280.aaaa, DanC, Gregory_Rosmaita, Julian, hsivonen, +49.208.829.0.aabb, Marcin_Hanclik, Arun
18:05:12 [DanC]
RRSAgent, draft minutes
18:05:12 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate DanC
18:05:33 [DanC]
Zakim, bye
18:05:33 [Zakim]
leaving. As of this point the attendees were +49.251.280.aaaa, DanC, Gregory_Rosmaita, Julian, hsivonen, +49.208.829.0.aabb, Marcin_Hanclik, Arun
18:05:33 [Zakim]
Zakim has left #html-wg
18:05:37 [DanC]
RRSAgent, draft minutes
18:05:37 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate DanC
18:06:29 [DanC]
looks like the record needs clean-up by hand
18:06:37 [DanC]
RRSAgent, stop