16:52:58 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #html-wg
16:52:58 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2007/07/12-html-wg-irc
16:53:02 <CarolK> CarolK has joined #html-wg
16:55:21 <Zakim> HTML_WG()1:00PM has now started
16:55:29 <Zakim> + +49.251.280.aaaa
16:57:20 <Zakim> +DanC
16:57:32 <Zakim> +Gregory_Rosmaita
16:57:52 <DanC> Zakim, aaaa is Julian 
16:57:52 <Zakim> +Julian; got it
16:58:34 <DanC> -> http://www.w3.org/2007/04/26-html-wg-minutes previous teleconference, 26 April
16:58:58 <DanC> ACTION: ChrisW to try to find a Seattle/OZ/Asia time [CONTINUES]
16:59:59 <DanC> ACTION: DanC to call for forms tf volunteers (with review from John B.) [DONE]
17:00:09 <DanC> -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2007May/0280.html forms task force volunteers? (tasks survey)
17:00:30 <DanC> ACTION: DanC to put the HTML spec baseline discussion by WBS in the next day or so [DONE]
17:00:47 <DanC> ACTION: DougS to review http://esw.w3.org/topic/HTML/ProposedDesignPrinciples  and advise the WG on whether to publish for community review, or whether critical problems remain [DONE]
17:00:55 <DanC> ACTION: IanH to review http://esw.w3.org/topic/HTML/ProposedDesignPrinciples  and advise the WG on whether to publish for community review, or whether critical problems remain [DONE]
17:01:02 <DanC> Zakim, take up item 1
17:01:02 <Zakim> agendum 1. "Convene HTML WG meeting of 2007-07-12T17:00:00Z" taken up [from DanC]
17:01:10 <DanC> Zakim, who's on the phone?
17:01:10 <Zakim> On the phone I see Julian, DanC, Gregory_Rosmaita
17:01:37 <Zakim> +??P3
17:01:58 <hsivonen> this is hsivonen
17:01:59 <DanC> Zakim, ??P3 hsivonen 
17:01:59 <Zakim> I don't understand '??P3 hsivonen', DanC
17:02:04 <DanC> Zakim, ??P3 is hsivonen 
17:02:04 <Zakim> +hsivonen; got it
17:02:50 <DanC> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2007Jul/0635.html
17:02:58 <DanC> (see also http://www.w3.org/html/wg/il16 )
17:03:02 <Zakim> + +49.208.829.0.aabb
17:03:17 <jgraham_> jgraham_ has joined #html-wg
17:03:55 <DanC> Zakim, aabb is Marcin_Hanclik
17:03:55 <Zakim> +Marcin_Hanclik; got it
17:04:19 <DanC> (found the name in http://www.w3.org/2000/09/dbwg/details?group=40318&public=1&order=org )
17:05:27 <DanC> regrets: mjs, Hickson, AnnevK 
17:05:43 <oedipus> is anyone else going to call into the telecon?  there are only 5 of us on the phone
17:06:36 <DanC> Zakim, next item
17:06:36 <Zakim> agendum 2. "Detailed Spec Reviews, progress update" taken up [from DanC]
17:06:59 <DanC> -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2007Jun/0282.html review schedule
17:07:32 <DanC> Zakim, who's on the phone?
17:07:32 <Zakim> On the phone I see Julian, DanC, Gregory_Rosmaita, hsivonen, Marcin_Hanclik
17:08:00 <oedipus> Zakim teleconference bridge: +1.617.761.6200 or +33.4.89.06.34.99 or +44.117.370.6152 confernce code: HTML#
17:08:31 <oedipus> HTML# equals 4865#
17:09:00 <DanC> DanC: I'm still hoping to review the intro by 15 June, but it's somewhat at risk
17:09:18 <DanC> hsivonen: the namespace section is one sentence; I did that. I'm on schedule for the other stuff.
17:09:59 <DanC> ... I sent some comments on the parsing section. see msgs with subject "detailed review"
17:10:27 <DanC> http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/40318/tasks83/
17:10:30 <oedipus> Henri's Review: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2007Jul/0575.html
17:11:43 <DanC> http://www.w3.org/2005/08/online_xslt/xslt?xslfile=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.w3.org%2Fhtml%2Fwg%2Fwhowhat.xsl&xmlfile=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.w3.org%2F2002%2F09%2Fwbs%2F40318%2Ftasks83%2Fresults&content-type=&submit=transform
17:12:52 <DanC> # 2007-06-30 Debi Orton  
17:12:59 <DanC> 2007-06-30 Marco Neumann
17:13:05 <DanC> 2007-06-30 Robert Burns
17:13:11 <DanC> I think I saw some from Robert Burns
17:13:31 <hsivonen> I've seen detailed review from myself, zcorpan, gsnedders and Rob Burns
17:14:10 <gsnedders> I'm just converting the number tests over to JSON as we speak
17:14:47 <DanC> DanC: goal is to have each section read by at least 2 WG members by the end of July or August
17:15:54 <rburns> rburns has joined #html-wg
17:16:16 <DanC> ... I don't expect we'll fix the issues that get raised before publishing, but we'll have some knowledge of what we're publishing
17:16:19 <DanC> Zakim, next item
17:16:19 <Zakim> agendum 3. "Test suite organization" taken up [from DanC]
17:16:28 <DanC> http://esw.w3.org/topic/HtmlTestMaterials
17:17:36 <hsivonen> q+
17:17:52 <DanC> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/grddl-wg/td/test_results
17:17:57 <DanC> ack hsivonen 
17:18:47 <DanC> hsivonen: Anne and [forgot already] have done a bunch of good stuff; it would be nice to have a manifest. then the html5lib has the best parser tests; that's where contributions are going
17:18:59 <DanC> s/[forgot already]/Simon Peters/
17:19:39 <hsivonen> q+
17:19:58 <DanC> ack hsivonen 
17:23:26 <dbaron> dbaron has joined #html-wg
17:24:52 <DanC> hsivonen: perhaps a simple manifest, conforming.txt that lists good files
17:27:46 <DanC> DanC: there's collaboration logistics... and I'm obliged to bring up copyright/license issues sooner rather than later
17:28:10 <DanC> hsivonen: some html5lib stuff is MIT/expat, some from google is Apache license
17:28:22 <DanC> ... copyright by individuals, I suppose
17:28:36 <DanC> (goodness, philip taylor?)
17:30:13 <Philip`> (There's two Philip Taylors - the one doing tests is not the one doing, er, whatever he's doing on the list)
17:30:14 <DanC> DanC: in order for this WG to use these tests, they should be contributed to the WG
17:30:18 <Zakim> +??P5
17:30:29 <DanC> Zakim, ??P5 is Arun
17:30:29 <Zakim> +Arun; got it
17:30:45 <hsivonen> DanC, the Philip Taylor I mentioned just showed up
17:31:06 <jgraham_> If there's anything in html5lib that isn't MIT licensed it should be removed
17:31:12 <DanC> http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/1/testgrants2-200409/
17:31:16 <DanC> Grant II: Grant of License for Contributed Test Cases Published Outside a W3C Recommendation
17:32:18 <DanC> DanC: and write access to the html5lib stuff?
17:32:26 <DanC> hsivonen: Anne and James handle that
17:32:46 <arun> arun has joined #html-wg
17:33:43 <Sander> Sander has joined #html-wg
17:34:05 <jgraham_> html5lib write access is on an as-required basis at the moment.
17:34:30 <jgraham_> But the tests could always be hosted somewhere else
17:34:46 <DanC> I'm interested in decentralized hosting using hg/bzr/git
17:35:11 <DanC> Zakim, next item
17:35:11 <Zakim> agendum 4. "Email traffic shaping" taken up [from DanC]
17:35:42 <oedipus> use [test] as a subject-line marker, results posted to the list as part of the thread; one test per post
17:37:19 <hsivonen> q+
17:38:40 <DanC> ack hsivonen 
17:42:38 <hsivonen> I find a mailing list easier to keep track of than wikis
17:43:21 <hsivonen> q+
17:43:29 <Julian> The noise ratio is a big problem; it's really easy to miss important announcements.
17:43:49 <arun> heiki, are you able to follow all threads?  are there threads you're watching more than usual?
17:44:00 <DanC> ack hsivonen 
17:44:07 <arun> sorry, heiki = henri
17:44:11 <arun> s/heiki/henri
17:44:55 <arun> +1 henri
17:44:58 <jgraham_> Big announcements could go on the homepage feed
17:45:02 <oedipus> convergence of wiki materials -- ESW and WHAT WG wikis need to at least be able to map to one another, running 2 wikis working on the same project sounds to me like a recipie for a migraine
17:45:42 <hsivonen> arun: I read all the messages to public-html.
17:46:05 <DanC> big announcements do go on the WG homepage, but with a latency of ~1 week
17:46:54 <DanC> Zakim, next item
17:46:54 <Zakim> agendum 5. "Tutorial Development" taken up [from DanC]
17:47:21 <Julian> DanC: I guess the WG homepage needs an Atom feed, then :-)
17:47:28 <DanC> DanC: 40+ ppl indicated interest, but we don't have a draft. I wonder if a mailing list would help.
17:48:31 <DanC> Zakim, next item
17:48:32 <Zakim> I do not see any non-closed or non-skipped agenda items, DanC
17:49:06 <DanC> Topic: next teleconference?
17:50:18 <Zakim> -Julian
17:50:19 <Zakim> -Arun
17:50:21 <Zakim> -hsivonen
17:50:22 <Zakim> -Marcin_Hanclik
17:50:49 <Zakim> -DanC
17:50:53 <DanC> next teleconference maybe in a week. i.e. the WG is hereby given its 7 day notice. An agenda or cancellation notice will go out by T-24hrs.
17:51:01 <DanC> ADJOURN.
17:51:14 <DanC> Meeting: HTML WG Teleconference
17:51:16 <DanC> Chair: DanC
17:51:18 <DanC> Scribe: DanC
17:51:22 <DanC> RRSAgent, draft minutes
17:51:22 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/07/12-html-wg-minutes.html DanC
17:58:16 <jgraham_> hsivonen: Do you have a testcase for the frameset bug in html5lib you mentioned this morning?
17:59:03 <hsivonen> jgraham_: not yet :-)
17:59:33 <jgraham_> OK, I'm just likely to forget to look at it unless some testcase fails :)
18:04:12 <DanC> RRSAgent, make logs world-access
18:05:09 <DanC> Zakim, list participants
18:05:09 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been +49.251.280.aaaa, DanC, Gregory_Rosmaita, Julian, hsivonen, +49.208.829.0.aabb, Marcin_Hanclik, Arun
18:05:12 <DanC> RRSAgent, draft minutes
18:05:12 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/07/12-html-wg-minutes.html DanC
18:05:33 <DanC> Zakim, bye
18:05:33 <Zakim> leaving.  As of this point the attendees were +49.251.280.aaaa, DanC, Gregory_Rosmaita, Julian, hsivonen, +49.208.829.0.aabb, Marcin_Hanclik, Arun
18:05:33 <Zakim> Zakim has left #html-wg
18:05:37 <DanC> RRSAgent, draft minutes
18:05:37 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/07/12-html-wg-minutes.html DanC
18:06:29 <DanC> looks like the record needs clean-up by hand
18:06:37 <DanC> RRSAgent, stop