14:52:05 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #swd
14:52:05 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2007/07/10-swd-irc
14:52:28 <TomB> rrsagent, bookmark
14:52:28 <RRSAgent> See http://www.w3.org/2007/07/10-swd-irc#T14-52-28
14:52:33 <TomB> zakim, this will be swd
14:52:33 <Zakim> ok, TomB, I see SW_SWD()11:00AM already started
14:52:48 <TomB> zakim, ??p5 is TomB
14:52:48 <Zakim> +TomB; got it
14:52:58 <TomB> Meeting: SWD WG
14:53:00 <TomB> Chair: Tom
14:53:44 <TomB> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swd-wg/2007Jul/0043.html
14:54:22 <TomB> Previous: http://www.w3.org/2007/07/03-swd-minutes.html
14:54:46 <TomB> Regrets: Guus, Daniel, Diego, Ralph, Jon, Simone, Sean, Elisa, Clay
14:55:13 <TomB> rrsagent, please make record public
14:58:14 <edsu> edsu has joined #swd
14:58:45 <Antoine> Antoine has joined #swd
15:00:24 <Bern> Bern has joined #swd
15:00:49 <Zakim> +??P16
15:00:59 <Zakim> + +0120682aaaa
15:01:10 <Bern> zakim, aaaa is Bernard
15:01:10 <Zakim> +Bernard; got it
15:01:10 <Antoine> zakim, P16 is Antoine
15:01:11 <Zakim> sorry, Antoine, I do not recognize a party named 'P16'
15:01:28 <vit> vit has joined #swd
15:01:36 <seanb> seanb has joined #swd
15:01:56 <Zakim> +[LC]
15:02:26 <Zakim> +[LC]
15:02:32 <TomB> Scribe: Bernard
15:02:38 <TomB> Scribenick: Bern
15:03:10 <Zakim> +??P34
15:04:13 <Zakim> +??P7
15:05:37 <Bern> Topic: Admin
15:05:59 <Bern> TomB  proposes accept minutes of 3rd July 2007
15:06:06 <Bern> No objections,
15:06:10 <seanb> Alistair's regrets: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swd-wg/2007Jul/0056.html
15:06:11 <Bern> Resolved
15:06:21 <Bern> Next telecon 17th July
15:06:29 <Bern> ACTION: Guus to propose dates in Oct for Amsterdam meeting on SKOS [recorded in [43]http://www.w3.org/2007/07/03-swd-minutes.html#action01]
15:06:36 <Bern> --continues
15:06:40 <Bern> Topic: SKOS
15:06:49 <Bern> ACTION: Antoine to raise issue of adding broader/narrower relations in skos [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/07/03-swd-minutes.html#action03]
15:06:49 <Antoine> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swd-wg/2007Jul/0012.html
15:07:10 <Bern> --DONE
15:07:44 <Bern> Antione: proposal is related to former SKOS extension document
15:08:05 <Bern> ...with broaderGeneric, broaderPartitive etc.
15:08:18 <Bern> ...eg. one is meant to represent part-whole relationships
15:08:30 <Bern> ...some users have spotted these ideas and would like to use them
15:08:44 <Bern> ...so should we represent these ideas as part of SKOS?
15:08:50 <Bern> TomB: what is your opinion?
15:09:10 <Bern> Antione: some correspond to commonly-accepted relationships in thesaurus domain
15:09:39 <Bern> ...but may be some problems because some relationships are handled by multiple SKOS properties, such as broaderPartitive and relatedPart
15:09:59 <Bern> ...but generally I thin it would be a good idea to recognise that these properties were proposed
15:10:20 <Bern> ...and some users want to use these properties as part of their models
15:10:36 <Bern> TomB: anyone know how extensively these proeprties are already beeing used?
15:10:55 <Bern> ...it has a W3C URI and people are using it yet it's status seems ambiguous
15:11:07 <Bern> ...anyone checked to see amount of usage?
15:11:36 <Bern> Antoine: usage now is not important, but as long as they remain public and they correspond to common thesaurus usage then some users
15:11:44 <Bern> ...may start using them.
15:11:51 <Bern> Seanb: what is cost to us to include them?
15:12:22 <Bern> Antoine: not expensive, but I'm not sure they cover all the established needs. Some papers describe these kinds of links, but there are more
15:12:43 <Bern> ...but if we want to be extensive, or do we want to limit to the current extensions?
15:13:02 <Bern> TomB: has anyone raised any objections, other than partititive issue?
15:13:31 <Bern> ...what status they attained in original project and why they weren't moved into rest of spec?
15:14:08 <Bern> Antoine: I think it was for the readabiity of the standard, and to be clear about what properties can be extended by users. 
15:14:10 <aliman> aliman has joined #swd
15:14:43 <Bern> ...For example, a kind of link that can be thought of is e.g. a painter, and a painting process. This relationship is not currently expressed in the 
15:15:14 <Bern> ...SKOS model, so some users may be confused about how to create their extensions? Should they be a sub property of broader or some more core property?
15:15:38 <Bern> TomB: suggest we move on today, but discuss when Alistair is here to discover historical context
15:15:56 <Bern> ACTION: Guus to move Action 26 forward [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/07/03-swd-minutes.html#action04]
15:16:01 <Bern> --continues
15:16:10 <Bern> ACTION: Guus to post user experience reports for ISSUE-26 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/07/03-swd-minutes.html#action05]
15:16:14 <Bern> --continues
15:16:25 <Bern> -- ISSUE-33: Grouping Construct (http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/track/issues/33)
15:16:42 <Bern> Tomb: Alistair has proposed a way forward
15:16:49 <Bern> -- ISSUE-33: Grouping Construct (http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/track/issues/33)
15:16:58 <Bern> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swd-wg/2007Jun/0166.html
15:17:39 <Bern> TomB: Does anyone disagree with this approach?
15:17:46 <Bern> No response
15:18:08 <Bern> Antoine: Sean raised some concerns about syntactic constraints
15:18:17 <Bern> Seanb: haven't had time to consider this yet
15:18:50 <Bern> Antoine: didn't know if there was redundancy between syntactic and possible future semantic constraints
15:19:02 <Bern> ...wondering if more experienced people could say something about this
15:19:19 <Bern> tomB: related to issue 31
15:19:21 <Bern> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swd-wg/2007Jun/0166.html
15:20:04 <Bern> TomB: alistair has added comments about relationship to OWL, specifically OWL-DL
15:21:04 <Bern> TomB: without alistair's presence we can't make any progress on this today
15:21:14 <Bern> Topic: RDFa
15:21:44 <Bern> TomB: last week Ralph suggested a discussion about the difference between class and role
15:21:55 <Bern> ...is there anyone on the telecon to discuss this?
15:22:03 <aliman> aliman has joined #swd
15:22:05 <Bern> ACTION: Ralph to Discuss possibility of meeting for RDFa in Cambridge [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/07/03-swd-minutes.html#action02]
15:22:08 <Bern> --continues
15:22:12 <Bern> TOPIC: Recipes
15:22:20 <Bern> ACTION: Ralph to Discuss possibility of meeting for RDFa in Cambridge [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/07/03-swd-minutes.html#action02]
15:22:25 <Bern> --continues
15:22:33 <Bern> Topic: Vocabulary Management
15:22:41 <Bern> TomB: Lisa is not on call
15:22:57 <Bern> ...so let's continue to next meeting
15:23:11 <Bern> ...not enough people on the call
15:23:24 <Bern> [adjourned]
15:23:27 <seanb> seanb has left #swd
15:23:28 <Zakim> -Vit
15:23:29 <Zakim> -Justin
15:23:31 <Zakim> -Edsu
15:23:32 <Zakim> -Antoine
15:23:36 <Zakim> -Seanb
15:23:41 <edsu> edsu has left #swd
15:24:08 <TomB> zakim, list attendees
15:24:08 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been TomB, +0120682aaaa, Bernard, Antoine, Edsu, Seanb, Justin, Vit
15:24:40 <TomB> rrsagent, please draft minutes
15:24:40 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/07/10-swd-minutes.html TomB
15:25:06 <aliman> hi tom, antoine, bernard, how's it going?
15:25:21 <aliman> sorry i couldn't make it, stuck in a meeting.
15:25:22 <Zakim> -Bernard
15:25:26 <TomB> aliman, hi
15:25:44 <TomB> we had a short meeting today - lots of regrets (including Guus and Ralph) - it's july...
15:26:01 <aliman> i saw, a couple of people at the open forum
15:26:06 <Zakim> -TomB
15:26:08 <Zakim> SW_SWD()11:00AM has ended
15:26:09 <Zakim> Attendees were TomB, +0120682aaaa, Bernard, Antoine, Edsu, Seanb, Justin, Vit
15:26:15 <TomB> oops
15:26:23 <TomB> aliman, are you still there?
15:26:28 <aliman> yep, here
15:26:50 <TomB> Jon, Elisa, Clay... anyone else?
15:27:18 <aliman> think it's just you, me, antoine & bern on IRC
15:27:47 <TomB> Jon, Elisa, and Clay are at the open forum I think
15:28:21 <aliman> yep
15:29:46 <Antoine> hey there were still things happening here :-)
15:30:06 <Antoine> bye
15:30:16 <Antoine> Antoine has left #swd
15:30:42 <aliman> aliman has joined #swd
15:30:57 <TomB> aliman, talk to you next week?
15:31:16 <aliman> yep, talk to you then. sorry, dodgy wireless here. hope you're well.