IRC log of rif on 2007-07-10

Timestamps are in UTC.

14:31:48 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #rif
14:31:48 [RRSAgent]
logging to http://www.w3.org/2007/07/10-rif-irc
14:31:50 [Zakim]
Zakim has joined #rif
14:32:02 [ChrisW]
zakim, this will be rif
14:32:02 [Zakim]
ok, ChrisW; I see SW_RIF()11:00AM scheduled to start in 28 minutes
14:32:25 [ChrisW]
Meeting: RIF Telecon 10 July 2007
14:32:32 [ChrisW]
Chair: Chris Welty
14:34:31 [ChrisW]
Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rif-wg/2007Jul/0052.html
14:34:44 [ChrisW]
ChrisW has changed the topic to: 10 July RIF Telecon Agenda http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rif-wg/2007Jul/0052.html
14:35:00 [ChrisW]
rrsagent, make minutes
14:35:00 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/07/10-rif-minutes.html ChrisW
14:35:09 [ChrisW]
agenda+ Admin
14:35:18 [ChrisW]
agenda+ Liason
14:35:22 [ChrisW]
agenda+ F2F
14:35:29 [ChrisW]
agenda+ Technical Design
14:35:42 [ChrisW]
agenda+ Summer Schedule
14:35:47 [ChrisW]
agenda+ AOB
14:36:00 [ChrisW]
rrsagent, make logs public
14:52:05 [csma]
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14:52:46 [Harold]
Harold has joined #rif
14:56:50 [Zakim]
SW_RIF()11:00AM has now started
14:56:57 [Zakim]
+[NRCC]
14:57:29 [Harold]
zakim NRCC is me
14:57:52 [patranja]
patranja has joined #rif
14:57:56 [mdean]
mdean has joined #rif
15:00:32 [Zakim]
+Mike_Dean
15:01:00 [Zakim]
+??P19
15:01:01 [DaveReynolds]
DaveReynolds has joined #rif
15:01:16 [csma]
zakim, ??P19 is me
15:01:17 [Zakim]
+csma; got it
15:01:18 [Zakim]
+ +1.989.218.aaaa
15:01:25 [josb]
josb has joined #rif
15:01:27 [StellaMitchell]
StellaMitchell has joined #rif
15:01:46 [Zakim]
+ +39.047.101.aabb
15:02:12 [Harold]
zakim, NRCC is me
15:02:12 [Zakim]
+Harold; got it
15:02:15 [Zakim]
+??P29
15:02:16 [Zakim]
+Dave_Reynolds (was ??P29)
15:02:34 [Zakim]
+[IBM]
15:02:47 [ChrisW]
zakim, ibm is temporarily me
15:02:47 [Zakim]
+ChrisW; got it
15:03:02 [Zakim]
+Sandro
15:03:03 [csma]
zakim, who is on the phone?
15:03:03 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Harold, Mike_Dean, csma, PaulaP, josb, Dave_Reynolds, ChrisW, Sandro
15:03:38 [Zakim]
+[IBM]
15:03:51 [GiorgosStoilos]
GiorgosStoilos has joined #rif
15:03:51 [StellaMitchell]
zakim, [ibm] is temporarily me
15:03:51 [Zakim]
+StellaMitchell; got it
15:04:01 [csma]
zakim, mute me
15:04:01 [Zakim]
csma should now be muted
15:04:26 [sandro]
sandro has joined #rif
15:04:45 [Zakim]
+[IVML]
15:05:02 [GiorgosStoilos]
zakim, [IVML] is me
15:05:02 [Zakim]
+GiorgosStoilos; got it
15:05:21 [ChrisW]
scribenick: GiorgosStoilos
15:05:29 [ChrisW]
Scribe: Giorgos Stoilos
15:05:37 [ChrisW]
zakim, next item
15:05:37 [Zakim]
agendum 1. "Admin" taken up [from ChrisW]
15:05:46 [csma]
yes
15:06:15 [ChrisW]
http://www.w3.org/2007/07/03-rif-minutes.html
15:06:32 [GiorgosStoilos]
chrisW: minutes accepted
15:06:47 [GiorgosStoilos]
chris: missing minutes from f2f
15:06:47 [csma]
zakim, unmute me
15:06:47 [Zakim]
csma should no longer be muted
15:07:13 [DavidHirtle]
DavidHirtle has joined #rif
15:07:13 [GiorgosStoilos]
action: chrisW contact Deborah for minutes
15:07:13 [rifbot]
Sorry, couldn't find user - chrisW
15:07:19 [csma]
ACTION: to ChrisW to contact Deborrah about the June 26 minutes
15:07:20 [rifbot]
Sorry, couldn't find user - to
15:07:38 [ChrisW]
zakim, next item
15:07:38 [Zakim]
agendum 2. "Liason" taken up [from ChrisW]
15:07:43 [csma]
ACTION: to chairs to publish F2F6 minutes
15:07:43 [rifbot]
Sorry, couldn't find user - to
15:08:07 [Zakim]
+[IPcaller]
15:08:11 [csma]
ACTION: to csma to publish F2F6 minutes
15:08:11 [rifbot]
Sorry, couldn't find user - to
15:08:50 [GiorgosStoilos]
it seems no liaison from other groups
15:08:57 [ChrisW]
zakim, next item
15:08:57 [Zakim]
agendum 3. "F2F" taken up [from ChrisW]
15:09:41 [GiorgosStoilos]
csma: Dave asked about WISMO (regarding liaison)
15:09:56 [DaveReynolds]
s/WISMO/SAWSDL/
15:09:56 [ChrisW]
^WISMO$SAWSDL^
15:10:20 [GiorgosStoilos]
jos: don't this it is very relevant to RIF
15:10:42 [Harold]
http://knoesis.wright.edu/library/presentations/SAWSDL-STC07-
15:10:42 [Harold]
May21.ppt
15:10:47 [josb]
s/this/think/
15:11:06 [GiorgosStoilos]
dave: specifies transformation on XML schema elements
15:11:12 [Harold]
Semantic Annotation for WSDL slides: http://knoesis.wright.edu/library/presentations/SAWSDL-STC07-May21.ppt
15:11:23 [GiorgosStoilos]
...we have not considered it yet
15:11:33 [GiorgosStoilos]
csma: someone should look at that
15:12:07 [GiorgosStoilos]
csma: I can but without a formal acion
15:12:44 [Harold]
http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wg/wiki/F2F7
15:12:54 [GiorgosStoilos]
harold: added something on the wiki about f2f7 in NRC
15:13:56 [GiorgosStoilos]
harold: in previous f2f some people mentioned difficulti in travelling to north america (Markup and MSintek)
15:14:06 [Zakim]
+Gary_Hallmark
15:14:31 [Harold]
s/Markup/Markus/
15:16:09 [Harold]
s/difficulti/difficulty/
15:17:03 [GiorgosStoilos]
chrisw: collect more proposals for f2f7 or stop here?
15:17:37 [GiorgosStoilos]
sandro: think we cannot wait longer
15:19:24 [josb]
yes, NY would be more convenient
15:19:39 [GiorgosStoilos]
chrisw: maybe we can wait one more week for me to propose for NY
15:20:05 [GiorgosStoilos]
harold: hassan cannot come to NY
15:20:31 [PaulaP]
+1 to propose another location
15:21:17 [sandro]
But not for US, PaulaP?
15:21:20 [GiorgosStoilos]
sandro: would be good to have the proposal quickly to open the poll
15:21:36 [PaulaP]
I have one for US already :)
15:21:52 [GiorgosStoilos]
chrisw: proposal for first week of October
15:22:09 [GiorgosStoilos]
...besides 26-28
15:24:37 [GiorgosStoilos]
harold: facilities would be available for october
15:25:00 [GiorgosStoilos]
s/would be available/would probably be available
15:25:33 [ChrisW]
zakim, next item
15:25:33 [Zakim]
agendum 4. "Technical Design" taken up [from ChrisW]
15:25:39 [csma]
ACTION: to ChristianD to ask JohnH re a proposal for F2F7 at OMG
15:25:39 [rifbot]
Sorry, couldn't find user - to
15:26:25 [GiorgosStoilos]
chrisw: would like to focus on issues like "how core is core" etc
15:27:18 [GiorgosStoilos]
chrisw: separate work, propose to have task forces
15:27:41 [GiorgosStoilos]
one completing the horn dialect and one in defining a PR dialect
15:28:42 [GiorgosStoilos]
....much discussion cause about differences of PR and horn (core)
15:29:20 [PaulaP]
+1 to have a couple of task forces to work in parallel
15:29:21 [sandro]
+1 Chris, deferring the label "Core", and working on PR dialect and Horn dialect for now.
15:30:04 [josb]
+1 to working on dialects separately
15:30:22 [GiorgosStoilos]
csma: PR-dialect task force should align as much as possible with core
15:30:36 [GiorgosStoilos]
...find the largest common core
15:30:50 [sandro]
csma: the idea is still to strive for the largest core possible
15:32:29 [ChrisW]
q?
15:32:48 [AxelPolleres]
AxelPolleres has joined #rif
15:33:32 [ChrisW]
zakim, who is on the phone?
15:33:32 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Harold, Mike_Dean, csma, PaulaP (muted), josb, Dave_Reynolds, ChrisW, Sandro, StellaMitchell (muted), GiorgosStoilos, DavidHirtle, Gary_Hallmark
15:33:39 [GaryHallmark]
GaryHallmark has joined #rif
15:33:47 [GiorgosStoilos]
garry: could help on the PR TF
15:34:28 [Zakim]
+??P3
15:34:29 [GiorgosStoilos]
chrisw: main topic now is extensibility
15:34:36 [AxelPolleres]
yes
15:35:15 [GiorgosStoilos]
action-322-complete
15:35:21 [csma]
action 322 complete
15:35:58 [GiorgosStoilos]
action 320 could be removed cause of the PR TF
15:36:03 [AxelPolleres]
done.
15:36:08 [GiorgosStoilos]
action 319 done
15:36:38 [GiorgosStoilos]
action 311 continued
15:36:53 [GiorgosStoilos]
action 305 continued
15:37:08 [csma]
action 309-311 due date is Friday 13
15:38:04 [GiorgosStoilos]
action 301 continued could be done by end of week
15:38:16 [GiorgosStoilos]
action 298 continued
15:39:17 [GiorgosStoilos]
action 260 continued (not in agenda today)
15:39:28 [GiorgosStoilos]
action 260 will be in agenda next week
15:39:37 [GiorgosStoilos]
action 256 continued
15:39:39 [csma]
action: to christiand to put dataset in the agenda next week
15:39:39 [rifbot]
Sorry, couldn't find user - to
15:39:56 [GiorgosStoilos]
action 253 continued
15:40:40 [GiorgosStoilos]
chrisw: some people had acions for strawman extensions
15:40:57 [AxelPolleres]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rif-wg/2007Jul/0039.html
15:41:08 [sandro]
s/some people/Christian and Axel/
15:41:14 [GiorgosStoilos]
axel describes his extension on NAF
15:42:10 [GiorgosStoilos]
axel: extension of core with naf
15:42:42 [GiorgosStoilos]
...three extensions stratified negation, well-founded semantics semantics and stable model semantics for negation
15:43:11 [MichaelKifer]
MichaelKifer has joined #rif
15:43:29 [GiorgosStoilos]
added subclass on condition, which is naf
15:43:40 [GiorgosStoilos]
and has property an atom
15:44:28 [GiorgosStoilos]
not very clear how to define it for stratified cause of syntactic restriction
15:44:45 [Zakim]
+ +39.047.101.aacc
15:45:00 [MichaelKifer]
zakim, aacc is me
15:45:00 [Zakim]
+MichaelKifer; got it
15:45:02 [csma]
zakim, mute me
15:45:02 [Zakim]
csma should now be muted
15:45:10 [MichaelKifer]
zakim, mute me
15:45:10 [Zakim]
MichaelKifer should now be muted
15:45:53 [GiorgosStoilos]
axel: similar extensions for smnaf and wfnaf
15:46:24 [GiorgosStoilos]
...syntax allows them to occur together in a program
15:46:35 [sandro]
Agreed -- it should not be a problem to inherit properties.
15:46:44 [sandro]
or reuse properties.
15:47:31 [csma]
q+
15:47:35 [GiorgosStoilos]
an issue on if future extensions can extend the current abstract syntax
15:49:02 [csma]
ack csma
15:49:21 [GiorgosStoilos]
axel:notions of forward and backward compatibility of extensions
15:49:35 [sandro]
q+ to ask about compatibility in the naf -vs- wfnaf
15:51:05 [Harold]
q+
15:51:48 [DaveReynolds]
Yes, makes sense to me
15:52:03 [AxelPolleres]
Sandro: take this example: a :- not b. b :- not a. c :- a. c :- b.
15:52:06 [sandro]
http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wg/wiki/Mini_PR
15:52:30 [GiorgosStoilos]
csma: two different cases when adding a subclass to a class
15:52:33 [Harold]
Adding naf to CONDITION does change the semantics of Ruleset: it becomes non-monotonic.
15:52:49 [GiorgosStoilos]
...a)a subclass not changing the semantics, like adding naf
15:53:16 [sandro]
csma: you have two different cases in adding a new subclass. (1) just adding a class, that doesn't change any of the existing classes. (2) adding a subclass changes the semantics of the whole (cf MiniPR)
15:53:16 [ChrisW]
q?
15:53:17 [GiorgosStoilos]
...b) adding subclass changes meaning of superclass, then should change other subclasses
15:53:31 [GiorgosStoilos]
like mini PR
15:54:13 [AxelPolleres]
cvm is an example of handling only strat naf.
15:55:22 [sandro]
Sandro: fallback for wfnaf might be to just use naf.
15:55:27 [csma]
csma has joined #rif
15:56:10 [csma]
q+
15:56:18 [csma]
ack sandro
15:56:18 [Zakim]
sandro, you wanted to ask about compatibility in the naf -vs- wfnaf
15:57:27 [GiorgosStoilos]
dave: proposed to use naf for both smnaf wfnaf and have a top-level tag to indicate which one
15:58:20 [csma]
q?
15:58:21 [GiorgosStoilos]
sandro: the user is not interested in specifying the semantics of smnaf vs. wfnaf
15:58:36 [DaveReynolds]
q+ to say sm/wf is not a fallback they are peers
15:58:44 [GiorgosStoilos]
sandro: proposing each one to fallack to oneanother
15:58:52 [GiorgosStoilos]
...and then to stratified
15:59:06 [AxelPolleres]
entailments under sm are a superset of wf entailments!
15:59:53 [sandro]
Sandro: to the impact is just on completeness in one direction.
16:00:08 [GiorgosStoilos]
axel: so problem of fallback would be in one direction
16:00:33 [csma]
stratification is testable; the fallback could be that a NAF implementation that is able to check stratification CAN replace wfnaf by naf if the received ruleset is stratified
16:00:40 [Zakim]
-Mike_Dean
16:00:45 [csma]
q?
16:01:15 [AxelPolleres]
?!?
16:01:41 [AxelPolleres]
the 90% of course depend on who you ask! ;-)
16:02:13 [GiorgosStoilos]
sandro: it is a reasonable fallback to see
16:02:28 [csma]
q?
16:03:14 [AxelPolleres]
many systems "accepting" only strat programs wouldn't check stratifiaction, they just wouldn't terminate or segfault, or alike.
16:03:54 [GiorgosStoilos]
axel: many systems do not check for stratification they just don't terminate
16:03:55 [csma]
but the spec could say that you're allowed to replace wfnaf by naf only if you check stratification
16:04:49 [csma]
zakim, unmute me
16:04:49 [Zakim]
csma was not muted, csma
16:04:49 [GiorgosStoilos]
axel: what does replace wfnaf with naf means
16:05:04 [csma]
ack csma
16:05:08 [GiorgosStoilos]
sandro: replace what you do not know with something you do
16:05:21 [ChrisW]
ack h
16:05:44 [sandro]
Axel: if you fallback replace wfnaf to naf, you might now have a non-stratified rulebase, which would be a syntax error.
16:05:49 [sandro]
Sandro: Good point. Hmmmm.
16:06:55 [GaryHallmark]
q+
16:07:15 [AxelPolleres]
The proper way to fallback would bew to ignore all rules "above" the unstrat negation cycle, which would probably again preserve soundness.
16:07:16 [GiorgosStoilos]
harold: would be good to have scoped naf
16:07:35 [PaulaP]
+1 to support for modules/scopes
16:07:35 [AxelPolleres]
... I meant fallback from unstrat to strat.
16:07:56 [GiorgosStoilos]
chrisw: this could mean changing syntax to include this
16:08:00 [sandro]
issue -- so what if you introduce an extension that changes the meaning of everything else....?
16:08:48 [AxelPolleres]
q+ on adding scopes
16:09:20 [ChrisW]
q?
16:09:21 [GiorgosStoilos]
sandro: having a dialect that changes everything does not make sense
16:09:27 [AxelPolleres]
q+
16:09:43 [DaveReynolds]
ack me
16:09:43 [Zakim]
DaveReynolds, you wanted to say sm/wf is not a fallback they are peers
16:09:43 [GaryHallmark]
keep it simple. the only "fallback" should be to prune the tree. The task is to identify "prune points". E.g. enclosing rule preserves soundness, enclosing conjuct preserves completeness.
16:10:13 [Harold]
At the workshop we already discussed CWA: http://www.w3.org/2004/12/rules-ws/report/#negation-as-failure
16:10:26 [sandro]
Sandro: I guess it's okay to have an extension that changes to meaning of everything else -- because any dialect that includes that extension would not be parseable as part of any other dialect.
16:10:46 [AxelPolleres]
Dave, what you propose is fine with my fallback-proposal
16:12:02 [Harold]
"The term Scoped Negation As Failure (SNAF) was proposed to indicate NAF where the scope of the search failure is well defined."
16:13:00 [sandro]
q?
16:13:02 [csma]
q+ to reply to Gary re pruning the tree
16:13:08 [csma]
ack Gary
16:13:09 [ChrisW]
ack g
16:13:29 [Zakim]
-Dave_Reynolds
16:13:58 [Zakim]
+Dave_Reynolds (was Guest P11 74394)
16:13:59 [Zakim]
+Dave_Reynolds
16:14:19 [csma]
zakim, mute me
16:14:19 [Zakim]
csma should now be muted
16:16:25 [GiorgosStoilos]
axel: gary's issue is not a phase 1 issue
16:16:48 [csma]
ack axel
16:17:34 [GiorgosStoilos]
axel: don't know of systems doing the unstratified check
16:18:02 [GiorgosStoilos]
axel: don't know if scope extension is incompatible with the other
16:18:43 [GiorgosStoilos]
s/don't know if/don't think that
16:18:49 [csma]
ack csma
16:18:51 [Zakim]
csma, you wanted to reply to Gary re pruning the tree
16:19:41 [AxelPolleres]
There is always the simple fallback to core... ignore all rules with negations.
16:19:44 [GiorgosStoilos]
csma: sometimes a fallback can be a simple replacement compared to cutting the parse tree
16:19:53 [Zakim]
+Sandro.a
16:19:57 [Zakim]
-Sandro
16:20:40 [ChrisW]
Regrets: IgorMozetic, HassanAitKaci, JeffPan, AllenGinsberg, LeoraMorgenstern, PaulVincent
16:20:49 [GiorgosStoilos]
csma: gives an example of horn and miniPR, where fallback is local
16:21:22 [GiorgosStoilos]
...where if you find retract you just stop
16:22:36 [ChrisW]
zakim, who is talking?
16:22:51 [Zakim]
ChrisW, listening for 11 seconds I heard sound from the following: Sandro.a (6%), DavidHirtle (95%), ChrisW (24%)
16:23:02 [ChrisW]
zakim, mute davidhirtle
16:23:02 [Zakim]
DavidHirtle should now be muted
16:23:32 [DaveReynolds]
Dave: in talking about extensions and forward compatibility we should distinguish between approximation and true compatibility. For example, if a user is working in WFNAF but their ruleset doesn't use any negation at all then that should be executable by the Horn dialect. But if the WFNAF negation has added a new token like RULESET-WFNAF then the Horn dialect would abort without going...
16:23:34 [DaveReynolds]
...further. We could allow fallback of RULESET-WFNAF to RULESET then it could proceed in the absence of any actual NAF conditions. Similarly in Mini-PR replacing ASSERT atomic by plain atomic is a safe local transform.
16:23:36 [GiorgosStoilos]
gary: i think this is an interesting example but could have other cases
16:27:35 [GiorgosStoilos]
gary: in two asserts you generally cannot do that
16:29:14 [GiorgosStoilos]
chrisw: could record the discussion in the extesibility page
16:29:44 [GiorgosStoilos]
sandro: action to try
16:29:55 [ChrisW]
zakim, next item?
16:29:55 [Zakim]
I don't understand your question, ChrisW.
16:29:57 [ChrisW]
zakim, next item
16:29:57 [Zakim]
agendum 5. "Summer Schedule" taken up [from ChrisW]
16:30:22 [csma]
action: sandro to make a pass at updating the extensibility page based on the discussions and strawmen
16:30:22 [rifbot]
Created ACTION-323 - Make a pass at updating the extensibility page based on the discussions and strawmen [on Sandro Hawke - due 2007-07-17].
16:31:24 [GiorgosStoilos]
chrisw: those having acions have to notify for not being able to fulfill their actions due to vacations
16:31:33 [ChrisW]
zakim, next item
16:31:33 [Zakim]
agendum 6. "AOB" taken up [from ChrisW]
16:31:45 [csma]
+1
16:31:50 [Zakim]
-josb
16:31:52 [PaulaP]
bye
16:31:54 [Zakim]
-Harold
16:31:54 [AxelPolleres]
+1 bye all!
16:31:55 [Zakim]
-StellaMitchell
16:31:55 [Zakim]
-PaulaP
16:31:58 [Zakim]
-Gary_Hallmark
16:32:02 [Zakim]
-Dave_Reynolds
16:32:04 [Zakim]
-DavidHirtle
16:32:09 [ChrisW]
zakim, who was on the call?
16:32:09 [Zakim]
I don't understand your question, ChrisW.
16:32:13 [ChrisW]
zakim, who was here?
16:32:13 [Zakim]
I don't understand your question, ChrisW.
16:32:19 [csma]
zakim, who is here?
16:32:19 [Zakim]
On the phone I see csma, ChrisW, GiorgosStoilos, AxelPolleres (muted), MichaelKifer (muted), Sandro.a
16:32:19 [ChrisW]
zakim, who is here?
16:32:22 [Zakim]
On IRC I see csma, MichaelKifer, sandro, GiorgosStoilos, mdean, Harold, Zakim, RRSAgent, ChrisW, rifbot
16:32:24 [Zakim]
On the phone I see csma, ChrisW, GiorgosStoilos, AxelPolleres (muted), MichaelKifer (muted), Sandro.a
16:32:26 [Zakim]
On IRC I see csma, MichaelKifer, sandro, GiorgosStoilos, mdean, Harold, Zakim, RRSAgent, ChrisW, rifbot
16:32:29 [Zakim]
-AxelPolleres
16:32:34 [csma]
zakim, who attended?
16:32:34 [Zakim]
I don't understand your question, csma.
16:32:35 [ChrisW]
zakim, list attendees?
16:32:35 [Zakim]
I don't understand your question, ChrisW.
16:32:37 [ChrisW]
zakim, list attendees
16:32:37 [Zakim]
As of this point the attendees have been Mike_Dean, csma, +1.989.218.aaaa, +39.047.101.aabb, josb, Harold, Dave_Reynolds, PaulaP, ChrisW, Sandro, StellaMitchell, GiorgosStoilos,
16:32:41 [Zakim]
... DavidHirtle, Gary_Hallmark, AxelPolleres, +39.047.101.aacc, MichaelKifer
16:32:52 [Zakim]
-MichaelKifer
16:32:58 [ChrisW]
rrsagent, make minutes
16:32:58 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/07/10-rif-minutes.html ChrisW
16:34:03 [Zakim]
-GiorgosStoilos
16:34:06 [ChrisW]
zakim, who is on the phone?
16:34:06 [Zakim]
On the phone I see csma, ChrisW, Sandro.a
16:39:32 [Zakim]
-csma
16:39:33 [Zakim]
-ChrisW
16:39:34 [Zakim]
-Sandro.a
16:39:36 [Zakim]
SW_RIF()11:00AM has ended
16:39:37 [Zakim]
Attendees were Mike_Dean, csma, +1.989.218.aaaa, +39.047.101.aabb, josb, Harold, Dave_Reynolds, PaulaP, ChrisW, Sandro, StellaMitchell, GiorgosStoilos, DavidHirtle, Gary_Hallmark,
16:39:40 [Zakim]
... AxelPolleres, +39.047.101.aacc, MichaelKifer
16:56:51 [csma]
csma has left #rif
18:36:56 [sandro]
sandro has joined #rif