14:41:12 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #grddl-wg
14:41:12 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2007/06/27-grddl-wg-irc
14:41:43 <dbooth> Meeting: GRDDL
14:42:01 <dbooth> Chair: Harry Halpin
14:48:25 <danja> danja has joined #grddl-wg
14:52:00 <Zakim> SW_GRDDL()11:00AM has now started
14:52:06 <Zakim> +??P1
14:52:20 <danja> Zakim, ??P1 is danja
14:52:20 <Zakim> +danja; got it
14:53:41 <danja> brb
14:54:27 <FabienG> FabienG has joined #grddl-wg
14:56:45 <Zakim> +??P21
14:56:55 <dbooth> zakim, ? is me
14:56:55 <Zakim> +dbooth; got it
14:58:33 <Simone> Simone has joined #grddl-wg
14:59:05 <HarryH> HarryH has joined #grddl-wg
14:59:27 <danja> danja has joined #grddl-wg
15:00:01 <john-l> john-l has joined #grddl-wg
15:00:12 <Zakim> +??P39
15:00:31 <dbooth> zakin, ? is RonReck
15:00:37 <Zakim> + +1.919.668.aaaa
15:00:47 <dbooth> zakim, ? is RonReck
15:00:47 <Zakim> +RonReck; got it
15:00:59 <Zakim> +john-l
15:01:03 <rreck> rreck has joined #grddl-wg
15:01:50 <HarryH> Zakim, who's on the phone?
15:01:51 <Zakim> On the phone I see danja, dbooth, RonReck, +1.919.668.aaaa, john-l
15:01:57 <HarryH> Zakim, aaaa is HarryH
15:02:00 <Zakim> +HarryH; got it
15:02:11 <HarryH> Has Zakim read the agenda yet DanC?
15:02:21 <danja> nope
15:02:23 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
15:02:29 <briansuda> Zakim, IPcaller is briansuda
15:02:30 <Zakim> +briansuda; got it
15:02:54 <HarryH> Zakim, next item
15:02:54 <Zakim> agendum 5. "Standard Transformation Library" taken up
15:02:56 <HarryH> Ah.
15:02:59 <HarryH> It appears not.
15:03:03 <HarryH> Zakim, open item 2
15:03:04 <Zakim> agendum 2. "Done without comment" taken up
15:03:06 <DanC> Zakim, clear agenda
15:03:06 <Zakim> agenda cleared
15:03:17 <HarryH> Zakim, read agenda from http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/grddl-wg/weekly-agenda
15:03:18 <Zakim> working on it, HarryH
15:03:18 <Zakim> agenda+ Convene GRDDL WG meeting of 2007-06-20T11:00-0400
15:03:19 <Zakim> agendum 1 added
15:03:20 <Zakim> agenda+ Done without comment
15:03:23 <Zakim> agendum 2 added
15:03:24 <Zakim> agenda+ Primer
15:03:25 <HarryH> Hmmm...
15:03:25 <Zakim> agendum 3 added
15:03:26 <Zakim> agenda+ GRDDL Test Cases
15:03:26 <HarryH> Old RDF.
15:03:29 <Zakim> agendum 4 added
15:03:30 <DanC> looks like you didn't rebuild weekly-agenda.rdf
15:03:34 <Zakim> agenda+ Standard Transformation Library
15:03:40 <Zakim> agendum 5 added
15:03:44 <Zakim> agenda+ #issue-dbooth-3(ambiguity)
15:03:46 <Zakim> agendum 6 added
15:03:48 <Zakim> agenda+ #issue-base-param
15:03:50 <Zakim> agendum 7 added
15:03:54 <Zakim> agendum 8 added
15:03:56 <Zakim> agenda+ Implementation Report, toward PR request
15:03:58 <Zakim> agendum 9 added
15:04:02 <Zakim> done reading agenda, HarryH
15:04:03 <DanC> Zakim, clear agenda
15:04:04 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
15:04:08 <Zakim> agenda cleared
15:04:11 <DanC> Zakim, read agenda from http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/grddl-wg/weekly-agenda
15:04:11 <Zakim> working on it, DanC
15:04:12 <Zakim> agenda+ Convene GRDDL WG meeting of 2007-06-27T11:00-0400
15:04:16 <Zakim> agendum 1 added
15:04:18 <Zakim> agenda+ GRDDL Test Cases
15:04:19 <Simone> Zakim, IPcaller is me
15:04:20 <Zakim> agendum 2 added
15:04:22 <Zakim> agenda+ #issue-dbooth-3(ambiguity)
15:04:24 <Zakim> agendum 3 added
15:04:28 <Zakim> agenda+ GRDDL vocabulary and misc spec edits
15:04:30 <Zakim> agendum 4 added
15:04:32 <Zakim> agenda+ Relationship to XHTML 2 and HTML 5
15:04:33 <bwm> bwm has joined #grddl-wg
15:04:34 <Zakim> agendum 5 added
15:04:36 <Zakim> agenda+ Implementation Report, toward PR request
15:04:38 <Zakim> agendum 6 added
15:04:42 <chimezie> chimezie has joined #grddl-wg
15:04:44 <Zakim> agenda+ #issue-base-param
15:04:46 <Zakim> agendum 7 added
15:04:48 <Zakim> agenda+ Primer
15:04:50 <Zakim> agendum 8 added
15:04:52 <Zakim> done reading agenda, DanC
15:04:54 <Zakim> +Simone; got it
15:04:56 <Zakim> +FabienG
15:05:11 <DanC> Zakim, take up item 1
15:05:11 <Zakim> agendum 1. "Convene GRDDL WG meeting of 2007-06-27T11:00-0400" taken up
15:05:17 <Zakim> +Chimezie_Ogbuji
15:05:18 <DanC> Zakim, call DanC-BOS
15:05:18 <Zakim> ok, DanC; the call is being made
15:05:19 <Zakim> +DanC
15:06:06 <DanC> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-grddl-wg/2007Jun/0347.html
15:06:37 <HarryH> Convene GRDDL WG  meeting of 2007-06-27T11:00-0400
15:06:42 <HarryH> chair: HarryH
15:06:46 <HarryH> scribe: Danja
15:06:55 <HarryH> Zakim, who's on the phone?
15:06:55 <Zakim> On the phone I see danja, dbooth, RonReck, HarryH, john-l, briansuda, Simone, FabienG, Chimezie_Ogbuji, DanC
15:07:08 <HarryH> comments on the agenda?
15:07:18 <HarryH> PROPOSED: to approve GRDDL WG -- 20th Jun 2007 as a true record
15:07:25 <HarryH> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-grddl-wg/2007Jun/att-0266/GRDDL-WG_--_20_Jun_2007_-_second_pass.html
15:07:38 <HarryH> APPROVED: to approve GRDDL WG -- 20th Jun 2007 as a true record
15:07:56 <HarryH> PROPOSED: to meet again Wed, 4th July 11:00-0400. scribe volunteer?
15:08:22 <Simone> Zakim, mute me
15:08:22 <Zakim> Simone should now be muted
15:08:22 <rreck> i dont think i can come on the 4th for sure
15:08:30 <DanC> I'm at risk for 4 July; I'd rather we took a week off
15:08:31 <FabienG>  regrets for me too
15:08:34 <danja> HarryH: meeting on 4th July?
15:09:16 <HarryH> Meeting on 11th of July?
15:09:19 <chimezie> Zakim, who is on the phone?
15:09:19 <Zakim> On the phone I see danja, dbooth, RonReck, HarryH, john-l, briansuda, Simone (muted), FabienG, Chimezie_Ogbuji, DanC
15:09:27 <HarryH> Do we have a scribe?
15:09:35 <HarryH> John-l is scribe for July 11th.
15:09:39 <HarryH> No meeting on 4th of July.
15:09:43 <HarryH> Zakim, next item
15:09:43 <Zakim> agendum 2. "GRDDL Test Cases" taken up
15:09:44 <rreck> i will be at CCCT on July 11
15:10:07 <HarryH> ACTION: chimezie to update test manifest to include statements about features exercised by each test
15:10:14 <danja> HarryH: opinion on test case doc?
15:10:27 <HarryH> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/grddl-wg/td/pendinglist
15:10:31 <DanC> q=
15:10:32 <danja> rreck: wanting input on what to merge
15:10:33 <DanC> q+
15:10:39 <HarryH> ack DanC
15:11:03 <danja> DanC: anything not done now, happy to leave forever
15:11:55 <danja> ?: move over/renaming links
15:12:32 <danja> HarryH: part of charter get test cases for std lib
15:13:04 <danja> chime: leave as-is is conservative thing to do
15:14:05 <DanC> based on http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/grddl-wg/td/test_results1.16 , which shows 2 passing implementations for inline-rdf1-10, I 2nd the proposal to approve them.
15:14:07 <rreck> there are alot of test cases
15:14:15 <DanC> :)
15:14:30 <chimezie> PROPOSAL: approve tests: #inline-rdf1, #inline-rdf2,#inline-rdf3,#inline-rdf4,#inline-rdf5,#inline-rdf6,#inline-rdf8,#inline-rdf9,#inline-rdf10
15:14:39 <chimezie> with base URI of : http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/grddl-wg/td/grddl-tests
15:14:58 <danja> DanC: seconded
15:15:22 <HarryH> APPROVED: tests: #inline-rdf1, #inline-rdf2,#inline-rdf3,#inline-rdf4,#inline-rdf5,#inline-rdf6,#inline-rdf8,#inline-rdf9,#inline-rdf10 with base URI of : http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/grddl-wg/td/grddl-tests
15:15:30 <rreck> the embedded ones do not have two passing instances
15:15:46 <HarryH> ACTION: chimezie to update test manifest to include statements about features exercised by each test [DONE].
15:15:55 <DanC> ACTION: chimezie to update test manifest to include statements about features exercised by each test [DONE]
15:16:13 <danja> chime: features is recent
15:16:29 <danja> HarryH: to get to PR need two passes...
15:16:35 <rreck> the embedded ones do not have two passing instances
15:17:28 <danja> ?: problem with test harness on embedded-rdf4, not raptor's fault
15:18:04 <danja> sorry - who's speaking now?
15:18:17 <john-l> ACTION: john-l to add various explanations to the test results page.
15:19:35 <danja> DanC: change todos into "would be nice", add john-l as sig
15:20:04 <danja> DanC: wants to sign off both docs today
15:20:04 <chimezie> The link which disposes of my ACTION to add RDF statements about the features excercised: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-grddl-wg/2007Jun/0135.html
15:20:21 <HarryH> So, we'll vote on PR for both documents together.
15:20:25 <chimezie> 1.53 version
15:20:38 <DanC> Revision 1.53  2007/06/26 16:55:13  cogbuji
15:20:56 <HarryH> Zakim, next item
15:20:56 <Zakim> agendum 3. "#issue-dbooth-3(ambiguity)" taken up
15:21:17 <HarryH> Zakim, who's on the phone?
15:21:17 <Zakim> On the phone I see danja, dbooth, RonReck, HarryH, john-l, briansuda, Simone (muted), FabienG, Chimezie_Ogbuji, DanC
15:21:28 <danja> HarryH: spent a whole telecon on this already, everybody happy to vote?
15:21:40 <danja> dbooth: has prepared something to present
15:21:47 <dbooth> Slides: http://dbooth.org/2007/grddl/ambiguity2.ppt 
15:22:18 <danja> DanC: not ok to spend time this way
15:22:28 <danja> HarryH: responsibility to address comment
15:22:50 <danja> dbooth: ok going straight to straw proposals
15:23:43 <HarryH> Straw Poll for 1c: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-grddl-wg/2007Jun/0331.html
15:23:49 <HarryH> Zakim, who's on the phone?
15:23:49 <Zakim> On the phone I see danja, dbooth, RonReck, HarryH, john-l, briansuda, Simone (muted), FabienG, Chimezie_Ogbuji, DanC
15:24:04 <rreck> aye
15:24:05 <HarryH> danja: concur.
15:24:17 <HarryH> dbooth: yes.
15:24:20 <briansuda> concur
15:24:23 <rreck> yes
15:24:25 <chimezie> How the proposals fall out along CCF position: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-grddl-wg/2007Jun/0375.html
15:24:35 <HarryH> Simone?
15:24:39 <FabienG> concur
15:24:42 <HarryH> Chime?
15:25:00 <danja> ?: are these mutually exclusive proposals?
15:25:04 <danja> dbooth: no
15:25:48 <rreck> zakim, I am rreck
15:25:48 <Zakim> sorry, rreck, I do not see a party named 'rreck'
15:25:49 <danja> HarryH: straw poll, prior to formal poll
15:25:49 <DanC> no; changing the domain of transformation is a substantive change; would require changes and re-opening issues, and the odds we'd improve the spec substantially doesn't look worth the time
15:26:07 <rreck> zakim, ronreck is rreck
15:26:07 <Zakim> +rreck; got it
15:26:40 <bwm> I'd like to make it clear that the HP position is to abstain on this vote
15:26:50 <DanC> this isn't a vote
15:26:58 <DanC> Harry, that proxy info needs to go into the record
15:27:09 <HarryH> Vipul gives David his proxy.
15:27:14 <HarryH> David votes "yes".
15:27:34 <danja> dbooth: need to find which proposal has most agreement
15:27:51 <HarryH> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-grddl-wg/2007Jun/0332.html
15:27:55 <HarryH> Proposal 2c?
15:28:32 <danja> dbooth: as 1 with non-validating parsing
15:28:34 <HarryH> Zakim, who's on the phone?
15:28:34 <Zakim> On the phone I see danja, dbooth, rreck, HarryH, john-l, briansuda, Simone (muted), FabienG, Chimezie_Ogbuji, DanC
15:28:38 <DanC> no; 2c likewise changes the domain of transformation, which (as jjc's tests show) is  substantive change; would require tests and re-opening issues, and the odds we'd improve the spec substantially doesn't look worth the time
15:28:41 <HarryH> Danny: concur
15:28:43 <HarryH> David: yes
15:28:44 <briansuda> concur
15:28:44 <rreck> concur
15:28:44 <danja> dbooth; fully address ambiguity issue
15:28:50 <HarryH> HarryH: abstrain
15:28:54 <HarryH> John-l: yes
15:29:08 <FabienG> concur
15:29:20 <HarryH> Chime: abstrains.
15:29:35 <danja> HarryH: more or less same, one less yes
15:29:44 <HarryH> Straw poll on 3c: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-grddl-wg/2007Jun/0333.html
15:29:48 <HarryH> Zakim, who's on the phone?
15:29:48 <Zakim> On the phone I see danja, dbooth, rreck, HarryH, john-l, briansuda, Simone (muted), FabienG, Chimezie_Ogbuji, DanC
15:30:25 <rreck> concur
15:30:28 <DanC> re 3c, no on grounds of order; we'd need to re-open faithful infoset first.
15:30:37 <HarryH> Danny: concurs.
15:30:59 <HarryH> dbooth: yes.
15:31:04 <rreck> concur
15:31:07 <briansuda> concur
15:31:07 <HarryH> john-l: yes
15:31:09 <HarryH> Chime: yes
15:31:16 <FabienG> concur
15:31:36 <HarryH> vipul: yes.
15:31:45 <danja> HarryH: substantially more yes
15:31:50 <dbooth> W3C Process document on Managing Dissent:
15:31:50 <dbooth> http://www.w3.org/2005/10/Process-20051014/policies.html#managing-dissent
15:31:50 <dbooth> [[
15:31:50 <dbooth> Groups SHOULD favor proposals that create the weakest objections. This is preferred over proposals that are supported by a large majority but that cause strong objections from a few people.
15:31:50 <dbooth> ]]
15:32:28 <danja> DanC: doesn't consider it in order to discuss
15:33:29 <danja> HarryH: DanC, is strong objection?
15:33:40 <danja> DanC: I'll live
15:33:59 <danja> DanC: will take role as editor, will follow WGs instruction
15:34:37 <danja> dbooth: may have hybrid proposal
15:35:00 <danja> dbooth: from chime
15:35:07 <danja> chime: depends on process
15:35:31 <danja> HarryH: can do one more straw poll
15:36:19 <danja> HarryH: can't really discuss because it doesn't have specific changes to text
15:36:24 <chimezie> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-grddl-wg/2007Jun/0375.html
15:36:43 <danja> (silence while everyone reads)
15:37:24 <chimezie> basically whether or not the transform is given teh document (and not the XPath model) and whether the transformation determiniation happens on a minimal XPath is dependent on 1) if the transformation is XProc and 2) if an XML Processing Model is applied
15:37:35 <DanC> (it's clear to me that 0375 overlaps our decision on faithful infoset and we shouldn't discuss it unless we're re-considering the decision)
15:37:37 <chimezie> XProc WG is chartered to produce 2)
15:38:09 <danja> HarryH: simple informative text addition enough?
15:38:23 <HarryH> I consider this a clarification of faithful infoset.
15:38:32 <HarryH> In particular, because of this sentece in faithful infoset:
15:38:42 <danja> chime: minimal processing if XProc...difficult to explain
15:38:57 <HarryH> Therefore, it is suggested that
15:38:57 <HarryH> GRDDL transformations be written so that they perform all expected
15:38:57 <HarryH> pre-processing, including processing of related DTDs, Schemas and
15:38:57 <HarryH> namespaces.
15:39:05 <DanC> (we postponed this issue. we agreed that yes, there are lots of possible designs in this space, but no, we're not choosing any of them. I find it rediculous to say that discussion of these designs is not reconsideration of that decision.)
15:39:29 <HarryH> Zakim, who's on the phone?
15:39:29 <Zakim> On the phone I see danja, dbooth, rreck, HarryH, john-l, briansuda, Simone (muted), FabienG, Chimezie_Ogbuji, DanC
15:39:37 <HarryH> danja: concur
15:39:39 <HarryH> dbooth: favor
15:39:39 <rreck> concur
15:39:42 <briansuda> concur
15:39:46 <HarryH> harryH: abstrain.
15:39:48 <HarryH> john-l yes
15:39:59 <FabienG> concur
15:40:03 <DanC> no. out of order.
15:40:17 <danja> HarryH: appears same as 3c
15:40:30 <HarryH> Strong objection.
15:40:35 <HarryH> 3c?
15:40:46 <danja> DanC: doesn't understand impact on spec, strong object
15:41:03 <HarryH> Now for a formal vote on 3c?
15:41:08 <danja> dbooth: views as acceptable resolution under circumstances
15:41:39 <danja> ?: these require forcing hand of editors
15:42:00 <HarryH> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-grddl-wg/2007Jun/0333.html
15:42:48 <danja> ?: what should be the forward reference? XProc (not yet written) or xmlFunctions-34
15:43:24 <danja> DanC: plan A XProc group comes up with a working model, TAG says ok
15:44:04 <danja> dbooth: I don't see that as a critical issue either way
15:44:32 <DanC> (I think it merits inclusion in the status section, independent of whether it goes in the body of the tests document.)
15:44:33 <danja> dbooth: problem with wording of Status section, not clear
15:44:53 <DanC> (and I'm the team contact, so I have final say on the status section. :-P ;-)
15:45:18 <HarryH> Vote? 
15:45:18 <rreck> yes
15:45:20 <danja> HarryH: ok with that?
15:45:23 <HarryH> Zakim, who's on the phone?
15:45:23 <Zakim> On the phone I see danja, dbooth, rreck, HarryH, john-l, briansuda, Simone (muted), FabienG, Chimezie_Ogbuji, DanC
15:45:29 <HarryH> abstrain.
15:45:34 <HarryH> john-l: yes.
15:45:34 <briansuda> abstain
15:45:44 <FabienG> concur
15:45:52 <danja> concur
15:45:58 <HarryH> David: abstain.
15:46:04 <HarryH> Vipul: yes.
15:46:10 <HarryH> DanC: abstain.
15:46:38 <HarryH> "Yes": 3
15:46:50 <danja> brb, water
15:46:50 <HarryH> "Concur": 3
15:46:57 <HarryH> Abstains: "2"
15:47:05 <DanC> 6 is a critical mass.
15:47:05 <HarryH> Concurs-> "yes"
15:47:12 <HarryH> "yes" = 6
15:47:19 <HarryH> Quorum? 
15:47:20 <DanC> 6 is a critical mass. <- my advice to the chair
15:47:46 <HarryH> APPROVED: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-grddl-wg/2007Jun/0333.html to Spec and Test-Cases. 
15:47:59 <HarryH> Zakim, next item
15:47:59 <Zakim> agendum 4. "GRDDL vocabulary and misc spec edits" taken up
15:48:08 <danja> HarryH: any final feelings? (no response)
15:48:17 <danja> Zakim, mute me
15:48:17 <Zakim> danja should now be muted
15:48:20 <HarryH> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-grddl-wg/2007May/0054
15:49:06 <HarryH> Zakim, next item
15:49:06 <Zakim> agendum 5. "Relationship to XHTML 2 and HTML 5" taken up
15:49:27 <danja> HarryH: |DanC brought up, not a formal issue
15:49:49 <danja> DanC: doesn't feel strongly, PR request worded well
15:50:12 <danja> HarryH: would prefer not to reopen group every time a new HTML spec comes out
15:50:12 <HarryH> http://tom.opiumfield.com/blog/2007/06/25#When:12:50:41
15:51:02 <HarryH> Chime: If GRDDL is subject to XHTML, it will never be stable. 
15:51:12 <danja> DanC: authority of profile comes from specs
15:51:45 <danja> DanC: if we seriously want to do this, need to have consensus of the HTML group
15:52:02 <danja> DanC: good accessibility story
15:53:14 <danja> DanC: well-deployed is a non-starter
15:54:12 <FabienG> I have a naive question: if the profile attribute disappears can we still use the XML attribute mechanism in XHTML2 and HTML5?
15:54:28 <HarryH> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/grddl-wg/prrequest.html
15:54:51 <danja> HTML5, not as-is, isn't XML
15:55:21 <danja> chime: reads aloud "dependencies with other groups"
15:56:20 <danja> DanC: adequately up to date with dependencies
15:57:00 <danja> HarryH: GRDDL not chartered to work with HTML5
15:57:25 <danja> HarryH: GRDDL can remain XHTML-only if necessary
15:57:54 <danja> (sorry, lost track of who's speaking)
15:59:21 <danja> DanC: make case for victory on GRDDL, support @profile outside this group
16:00:01 <danja> HarryH: send strong mail to HTML WG from this WG in support of keeping profile
16:00:24 <danja> ?: strong case is test cases + implementation support
16:00:54 <danja> Zakim, unmute me
16:00:54 <Zakim> danja should no longer be muted
16:01:42 <danja> danja: DanC, better WG mail or individualos
16:01:52 <danja> DanC: what matters is the arguments
16:02:27 <danja> DanC: worst case, follow your nose is gone by consensus
16:03:03 <danja> DanC: self-convincing argument is URI-based extensibility
16:03:42 <danja> HarryH: HTML5 has to get through W3C process
16:03:57 <DanC> ACTION DanC: salt http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-grddl-wg/2007Jun/0274.html to taste and send to HTML WG
16:04:18 <Zakim> -Simone
16:05:03 <dbooth> I also think it's a good idea
16:05:06 <HarryH> danja: yes
16:05:17 <FabienG> yes
16:05:33 <HarryH> I'll take send as authorization to send it out plus one e-mail.
16:05:34 <chimezie> "famous last words"
16:05:42 <HarryH> Zakim, next item
16:05:42 <Zakim> agendum 6. "Implementation Report, toward PR request" taken up
16:05:52 <HarryH> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/grddl-wg/prrequest.html
16:05:54 <danja> HarryH, check latter bits of http://dannyayers.com/2007/06/25/grddl-progress
16:06:11 <DanC> (in particular, I think we should phrase the subject of these liaison messages in terms of the recipient group, i.e. "please keep @profile", not "review of GRDDL")
16:06:20 <HarryH> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-grddl-comments/2007AprJun/0120.html
16:06:30 <danja> HarryH: status of comments
16:06:31 <Simone> Simone has joined #grddl-wg
16:07:16 <danja> eek! you have my sympathy Simone
16:07:23 <danja> HarryH: ready for votes
16:07:35 <DanC> proposal should cite http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/grddl-wg/prrequest.html too
16:07:58 <DanC> http://www.w3.org/2004/01/rdxh/spec 1.273 + dbooth3 edit + status/pubrules
16:08:30 <DanC> test cases  Revision 1.53  2007/06/26 16:55:13  cogbuji
16:08:37 <DanC> test cases  Revision 1.53  2007/06/26 16:55:13  cogbuji + dbooth3 edit
16:08:50 <chimezie> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/grddl-wg/td/grddl-tests 1.53 + approvals of inline-rdf* + RESOLUTION on proposal 3c
16:08:52 <DanC> oh yeah... inlinerdf.
16:09:17 <HarryH> PROPOSAL: http://www.w3.org/2004/01/rdxh/spec 1.273 + dbooth3 edit + status/pubrules and http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/grddl-wg/td/grddl-tests 1.53 + approvals of inline-rdf* + RESOLUTION on proposal 3c (dbooth3) to PR.
16:09:28 <HarryH> Zakim, who's on the phone?
16:09:28 <Zakim> On the phone I see danja, dbooth, rreck, HarryH, john-l, briansuda, FabienG, Chimezie_Ogbuji, DanC
16:09:32 <rreck> concur
16:09:39 <DanC> (david, I'm interested in another set of eyeballs on http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/grddl-wg/prrequest.html ; are you interested?)
16:10:15 <dbooth> DanC, okay
16:10:37 <HarryH> PROPOSAL: http://www.w3.org/2004/01/rdxh/spec 1.273 + dbooth3 edit + status/pubrules and http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/grddl-wg/td/grddl-tests 1.53 + approvals of inline-rdf* + RESOLUTION on proposal 3c (dbooth3) to PR and PR Request + editorial changes and edits authorized by WG member.
16:10:44 <DanC> something like http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/grddl-wg/prrequest.html plus edits to @@s as agreed by HarryH and DavidB
16:10:54 <DanC> ok, "by WG member" is close enough
16:11:13 <briansuda> concur
16:11:16 <HarryH> chime: yes
16:11:26 <HarryH> hp: yes
16:11:28 <FabienG> Yes.
16:11:43 <HarryH> Harry: yes
16:11:53 <HarryH> w3c: yes
16:12:04 <HarryH> APPROVED:  http://www.w3.org/2004/01/rdxh/spec 1.273 + dbooth3 edit + status/pubrules and http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/grddl-wg/td/grddl-tests 1.53 + approvals of inline-rdf* + RESOLUTION on proposal 3c (dbooth3) to PR and PR Request + editorial changes and edits authorized by WG member.
16:12:05 <Zakim> +??P32
16:12:12 <danja> all: yay!
16:12:22 <HarryH> Simone: yes
16:12:26 <Simone> Zakim, P32 is me
16:12:26 <Zakim> sorry, Simone, I do not recognize a party named 'P32'
16:12:36 <Simone> Simone : Yes
16:12:41 <john-l> Zakim, ??P32 is Simone
16:12:41 <Zakim> +Simone; got it
16:12:51 <rreck> i voted yes
16:13:18 <Simone> Zakim, mute me please
16:13:18 <Zakim> Simone should now be muted
16:14:14 <HarryH> For members of WG not present, they can express their support by e-mail to the public-grddl-wg@w3.org.
16:15:09 <danja> HarryH: Dublin Care profile?
16:15:42 <danja> s/Care/Core
16:16:02 <HarryH> ACTION: IanD and Danja to e-mail maintainer of Dublin Core Metadata Profile to upgrade to GRDDL.
16:16:06 <danja> (I now work with iand, so it's == )
16:16:33 <DanC> (oops; we perhaps should have changed your affiliation, danja.)
16:16:42 <HarryH> Are there any GRDDL implementations that we can cite as support deployment besides OpenLink and TopBraid?
16:16:49 <danja> DanC, only recent - probably a bit late in the day
16:17:07 <HarryH> I'll add XTech in.
16:17:55 <rreck> you mean like ISO vocabularies?
16:18:06 <rreck> ok i have ISO 3166
16:18:07 <HarryH> XML based vocabularies or XHTML profiles.
16:18:13 <HarryH> Could you e-mail that to the list rreck?
16:18:14 <rreck> i have to finalized it
16:18:18 <rreck> but yes
16:18:22 <HarryH> Just e-mail it to us that you're working on it.
16:18:42 <FabienG> Do you include RDFa profile: http://ns.inria.fr/grddl/rdfa/  ?
16:19:00 <dbooth> PR request needs to mention xmlFunctions-34
16:19:10 <rreck> i have conversions of 3166-2 genericode to RDF 
16:19:38 <DanC> -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2007Jun/0124.html # request for profile URI for RDFa Ralph R. Swick (Tuesday, 26 June)  
16:19:58 <DanC> http://jazoon.com/en/conference/presentationdetails.html?type=sid&detail=870
16:19:58 <danja> HarryH: any other additons to PR requests?
16:20:11 <DanC> that jazoon link is among http://del.icio.us/connolly/grddl
16:20:14 <danja> DanC: Jazoom? tutorial?
16:21:01 <dbooth> In PR request: s/been been/been/
16:21:33 <chimezie> ST '07 COP GRDDL session: http://www.semantic-conference.com/2007/sessions/d1.html
16:23:01 <DanC> Zakim, take up item primer
16:23:02 <Zakim> agendum 8. "Primer" taken up
16:23:21 <danja> dbooth: re. Primer interested in cheatsheet part in intro
16:24:07 <danja> dbooth: plus addition of XML NS doc example
16:24:17 <danja> HarryH: problem is there are so many
16:24:30 <danja> HarryH: handled by pointing to spec
16:24:31 <DanC> (so many what? huh?)
16:24:44 <danja> HarryH: so many example like this (I think)
16:25:06 <DanC> (I don't mind reconsidering )
16:25:22 <danja> (no objection)
16:25:31 <DanC> (it means we have to make a decision or risk going to the someday pile)
16:26:13 <danja> HarryH: to fulfil charter have to have everything going out as once
16:26:49 <john-l> What's wrong with publishing updates to WG Notes?
16:27:08 <danja> dbooth: would need time
16:27:24 <danja> HarryH: DanC, is update to Note doable?
16:27:32 <danja> DanC: I doubt it
16:28:05 <danja> DanC: Yvonne might be filling in 
16:28:59 <danja> [discussion on finding a staff contact later]
16:31:39 <HarryH> PROPOSAL: To publish http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/grddl-wg/doc29/primer.html + correct danja's + chime's problems today + removing iframes.
16:31:58 <HarryH> Zakim, who's on the phone?
16:31:58 <Zakim> On the phone I see danja, dbooth, rreck, HarryH, john-l, briansuda, FabienG, Chimezie_Ogbuji, DanC, Simone (muted)
16:32:09 <briansuda> yes
16:32:14 <Simone> yes
16:32:14 <rreck> yes
16:32:16 <FabienG> Yes
16:32:20 <HarryH> DanC: abstain.
16:32:25 <HarryH> HarryH: abstains.
16:32:26 <DanC> I abstain and I'm not taking any publication related actions for the primer.
16:35:00 <dbooth> If DanC is unable to perform his duties as W3C staff contact, we need to escalate to W3C management.
16:36:03 <rreck> thanks, bubye
16:36:32 <HarryH> Meeting excused for people who don't want to work on primer.
16:37:02 <john-l> Are we just going to leave the iframes, then?
16:37:09 <Zakim> -rreck
16:38:39 <john-l> Breakfast?  Wow.
16:38:56 <chimezie> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-grddl-wg/2007Jun/0367.html
16:40:18 <danja> danja has joined #grddl-wg
16:40:48 <john-l> [[[
16:40:53 <john-l> The spreadsheets example is based on work by Mark Nottingham in "Adding
16:40:57 <john-l> Semantics to Excel with Microformats and GRDDL".  The version of the
16:41:01 <john-l> transformation script used in that example has a few significant changes
16:41:05 <john-l> from Mark's original.
16:41:06 <john-l> ]]]
16:41:54 <danja> chimezie, is this right: [[[
16:42:00 <danja> Also possible typo down there - cpr:medical-problem is mentioned in
16:42:00 <danja> the text, can't see it in the RDF, maybe cpr:medical-sign is intended?
16:42:04 <danja> ]]]
16:42:44 <DanC> yeah; breakfast. I was up 'till 3am last night, and I didn't manage breakfast before this meeting. I'm *really* struggling to cover both HTML WG duties (W3C is trying to hire but hasn't done so yet) and this WG.
16:43:17 <john-l> DanC, that helps to explain your frustratiion with the Primer process.  I'm sorry for the heavy draw on your time.
16:43:22 <DanC> (the 3am bit is partly my own time mis-management, but still...)
16:43:46 <chimezie> danja: yes you are right
16:43:52 <chimezie> sorry didn't catch that in IRC
16:43:53 <danja> thnks
16:44:50 <Zakim> -Simone
16:45:00 <Zakim> -FabienG
16:45:24 <Zakim> -Chimezie_Ogbuji
16:46:07 <DanC> shall we keep the 7july meeting slot or cancel? it's easy to cancel later, but impossible to undo a cancel in less than 7 days.
16:46:14 <DanC> 4july
16:47:10 <DanC> ack danc
16:48:10 <HarryH> The syntax of a "This Version" URI MUST be <http://www.w3.org/TR/2007/NOTE-shortname-2007MMDD/>.
16:48:10 <HarryH> Error The status found in the URI (http://www.w3.org/TR/2006/WD-grddl-primer-20061002/) doesn't match the specified short status (NOTE), or the "this version" link is not well formatted (a la http://www.w3.org/TR/YYYY/status-shortname-YYYYMMDD)
16:50:03 <HarryH> Error. Although the boilerplate text is correct, there is an inconsistency with respect to IPP for the group identified by http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/grddl-wg/: Error. The group is in IPP. There is an inconsistency between the checker configuration (not W3C Patent Policy) and what IPP believes (W3C Patent Policy).
16:53:19 <DanC> RESOLVED to cancel 4 July meeting.
16:53:21 <HarryH> RESOLVED: To cancel the meeting on the 4th of July 2007.
16:54:03 <Zakim> -briansuda
16:54:16 <briansuda> i'm still around in IRC if you need me for anything
16:58:07 <HarryH> OK.
16:58:10 <HarryH> Back.
16:58:18 <HarryH> john-l? 
17:00:12 <DanC> the changelog is a raw CVS log since 27 Sep; anybody want to do something friendlier?
17:04:04 <DanC> HarryH, recall we used that hotel example for our WWW2007 tutorial; we came up with a nice diagram: http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/grddl-wg/tut7/hotel-answer.png
17:04:12 <DanC> I wonder if it's worth adding
17:04:23 <DanC> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/grddl-wg/tut7/gtut#(18)
17:04:58 <DanC> (slide28 is a hoot; did we ack the source of that image?)
17:05:40 <dbooth> If that image is correct, I'd favor adding it.
17:06:11 <DanC> one list is http://esw.w3.org/topic/DawgShows
17:06:19 <FabienG> FabienG has left #grddl-wg
17:06:22 <DanC> dbooth, it was correct as of May; can you take a quick look?
17:06:42 <Zakim> -danja
17:06:43 <DanC> and http://esw.w3.org/topic/SparqlEndpoints
17:10:08 <DanC> +1 after "With this combined "mashed-up" data " para
17:12:30 <DanC> here's what I use when I need a DTD: $ echo "foo" | tidy -asxml
17:12:38 <DanC> <!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.0 Transitional//EN"
17:12:38 <DanC>     "http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/DTD/xhtml1-transitional.dtd">
17:22:57 <HarryH> All normative representations MUST  validate as either HTML 4.x or as some version of XHTML that is a W3C Recommendation.
17:22:57 <HarryH> Error The W3C Markup Validation Service was used for the validation of this document. 
17:23:12 <HarryH> At least one normative representation MUST  validate as HTML 4.x or XHTML 1.0 (for backwards compatibility).
17:23:22 <HarryH> OK (found XHTML 1.0 Frameset) The W3C Markup Validation Service was used for the validation of this document.
17:25:16 <DanC> john, you might appreciate ,mirrorstatus
17:25:52 <john-l> I think that requires credentials that I don't have.
17:31:29 <DanC> <IanJ> when I ,pubrules that URI I don't get that error, DanC
17:33:44 <dbooth> DanC: I hereby okay the status section.
17:33:51 <DanC> I move to adjourn.
17:34:08 <DanC> pls send pub request to webreq, copy me and john-l (and w3c-archive)
17:34:56 <DanC> PROPOSED: to publish http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/grddl-wg/doc29/primer.html Revision 1.125  2007/06/27 17:30:29  + changes required by W3C publication process by john or harry or danc
17:35:17 <dbooth> I second
17:35:28 <DanC> RESOLVED: to publish http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/grddl-wg/doc29/primer.html Revision 1.125  2007/06/27 17:30:29  + changes required by W3C publication process by john or harry or danc
17:35:59 <dbooth> rrsagent, draft minutes
17:35:59 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/06/27-grddl-wg-minutes.html dbooth
17:37:17 <Zakim> -john-l
17:37:21 <dbooth> ADJOURNED
17:37:28 <dbooth> rrsagent, draft minutes
17:37:28 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/06/27-grddl-wg-minutes.html dbooth
17:37:51 <Zakim> -dbooth
17:37:59 <Zakim> -DanC
17:38:03 <dbooth> rrsagent, make logs public
17:39:21 <Zakim> -HarryH
17:39:22 <Zakim> SW_GRDDL()11:00AM has ended
17:39:23 <dbooth> DanC, twiddle permissions on minutes please
17:39:24 <Zakim> Attendees were danja, dbooth, +1.919.668.aaaa, john-l, HarryH, briansuda, Simone, FabienG, Chimezie_Ogbuji, DanC, rreck
17:39:30 <DanC> RRSAgent, make logs world-access
17:40:02 <DanC> that should do the trick in ~25 seconds, dbooth 
17:40:42 <DanC> perhaps RRSAgent should say "I have made the request; typical latency is 15 to 30 seconds"
17:41:09 <DanC> or "a few seconds to a few minutes"
17:41:16 <HarryH> OK.
17:41:33 <HarryH> Request sent to webreq.
17:41:41 <HarryH> \me going to run to fix care and other issues.
17:41:58 <DanC> harry, your mail message doesn't point to the content we just slaved over.
18:03:38 <danja> danja has left #grddl-wg
19:55:07 <briansuda> briansuda has joined #grddl-wg
22:41:56 <DanC> DanC has joined #grddl-wg