13:43:16 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #SWEO
13:43:16 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2007/06/06-SWEO-irc
13:43:23 <ivan> rrsagent, set log public
13:43:37 <ivan> Meeting: SW EO IG Weekly Telco
13:43:41 <ivan> Chair: Susie
13:45:02 <mdzbor> mdzbor has joined #SWEO
13:51:06 <IanJ> IanJ has joined #sweo
13:51:12 <IanJ> Hi Ivan.
13:51:24 <IanJ> I am still on w3m
13:51:32 <IanJ> not sure I will be able to join at the top of the hour.
13:52:03 <ivan> I hope MCF will come in...
13:54:14 <Susie> Susie has joined #sweo
13:57:57 <patranja> patranja has joined #sweo
13:58:29 <marie> marie has joined #SWEO
13:58:38 <leobard> leobard has joined #sweo
13:58:43 <leobard> hi guys.
13:58:55 <leobard> I will be on the phone in 5 min.
13:59:41 <Zakim> SW_SWEO()10:00AM has now started
13:59:41 <marie> will move out of my meeting now and look for a quiet place
13:59:42 <ivan> zakim, dial ivan-617
13:59:43 <Zakim> ok, ivan; the call is being made
13:59:48 <Zakim> +??P16
14:00:09 <ivan> zakim, dial ivan-617
14:00:09 <Zakim> ok, ivan; the call is being made
14:00:10 <Zakim> +Ivan
14:00:29 <ivan> zakim, ??P16 is susie
14:00:29 <Zakim> +susie; got it
14:00:33 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
14:00:41 <wing> wing has joined #sweo
14:00:49 <wing> zakim, code?
14:00:49 <Zakim> the conference code is 7936 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), wing
14:00:49 <kjetilk> Zakim, IPcaller is me
14:00:51 <Zakim> +kjetilk; got it
14:00:52 <Dunja> Dunja has joined #SWEO
14:00:53 <ivan> zakim, [IP is kjetil
14:00:53 <Zakim> sorry, ivan, I do not recognize a party named '[IP'
14:01:08 <ivan> zakim, IPcaller is kjetil
14:01:08 <Zakim> sorry, ivan, I do not recognize a party named 'IPcaller'
14:01:20 <Zakim> +[IBMCambridge]
14:01:22 <wing> zakim, IBMCambridge is wing
14:01:22 <Zakim> +wing; got it
14:02:01 <Zakim> +??P27
14:02:13 <ivan> zakim, ??P27 is martin
14:02:21 <Zakim> +martin; got it
14:02:22 <marie> zakim, dial mcf-mob
14:02:26 <marie> (trying...)
14:02:31 <Zakim> I am sorry, marie; I do not know a number for mcf-mob
14:02:35 <marie> zut
14:02:38 <ivan> :-)
14:03:20 <Zakim> +Jeff_Schiffel
14:03:24 <Zakim> +??P31
14:03:27 <Zakim> + +49.895.480.aaaa
14:03:53 <ivan> zakim, ??P31 is benjee
14:03:53 <Zakim> +benjee; got it
14:04:02 <Zakim> +Marie-Claire
14:04:12 <kjetilk> zakim, ??P31 is bengee
14:04:12 <Zakim> I already had ??P31 as benjee, kjetilk
14:04:17 <Zakim> +??P29
14:04:23 <ivan> zakim, aaaa is Paula
14:04:23 <Zakim> +Paula; got it
14:04:26 <kidehen> kidehen has joined #sweo
14:04:38 <ivan> zakim, ??P29 is Kingsley
14:04:38 <Zakim> +Kingsley; got it
14:05:24 <ivan> zakim, Paula is Dunja
14:05:24 <Zakim> +Dunja; got it
14:05:53 <mdzbor> agenda + SW flyer
14:05:57 <LeeF> LeeF has joined #sweo
14:06:02 <Zakim> +??P36
14:06:08 <mdzbor> agenda + progress on logo
14:06:18 <mdzbor> agenda + progress on enterpr. survey
14:06:29 <mdzbor> agenda + next f2f mtg
14:06:34 <Zakim> -Jeff_Schiffel
14:06:45 <LeeF> zakim, wing holds wing, LeeF
14:06:45 <Zakim> +wing, LeeF; got it
14:06:47 <mdzbor> agenda + use case progress
14:06:53 <ivan> zakim, ??P36 is Orri
14:06:53 <Zakim> +Orri; got it
14:07:04 <Zakim> +Jeff_Schiffel
14:07:05 <mdzbor> open agendum 1
14:07:07 <LeeF> zakim, who's talking?
14:07:10 <Zakim> + +49.631.205.7.aabb
14:07:18 <Zakim> LeeF, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: susie (35%), Kingsley (20%), ??P32 (21%), Dunja (27%), Marie-Claire (81%)
14:07:39 <leobard> sounds like somebody is at ESWC :-)
14:07:49 <Zakim> + +99086aacc
14:07:52 <ivan> zakim, aabb is leo
14:07:52 <Zakim> +leo; got it
14:08:14 <mdzbor> paula starts with update on the flyer
14:08:29 <kjetilk> Marie-Claire (81%), could it be you?
14:08:40 <PaulaP> s/paula/Dunja
14:09:08 <Dunja> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/sweo/group/wiki/first_drafts
14:09:17 <mdzbor> two proposals available to reflect discussion earlier this week
14:09:24 <mdzbor> the link to proposals above
14:11:03 <mdzbor> marie claire was involved in designs of W3c, etc. brochures
14:11:30 <mdzbor> ivan proposed combining and collatin all comments, but that's not done yet
14:11:46 <Zakim> +Frank_Chum
14:11:50 <mdzbor> comment on cover page - good work, clear content
14:12:02 <Frank> Frank has joined #SWEO
14:12:37 <mdzbor> re graphics, it's a bit complicated, but that might be due to colours used
14:12:50 <mdzbor> maybe diff colours to distinguish from other brochures?
14:13:40 <IanJ> one comment from the comm team on graphics: please don't use a grid....likely to be associated with The Grid.
14:14:06 <mdzbor> better hooks perhaps needed
14:14:17 <mdzbor> e.g. "get smarter with richer..."
14:14:36 <kidehen> +q
14:14:43 <mdzbor> "make your data richer", "leverage your business with..." = sex up the catchphrase(s) :-)
14:14:58 <kidehen> basically we need a puchline
14:15:03 <LeeF> "free beer inside"
14:15:03 <kidehen> punchline
14:15:24 <mdzbor> susie emphasizes the audience is mainly non-geek
14:15:27 <kidehen> none geek punchline like: Information at your fingertips
14:15:34 <LeeF> The Semantic Web: Win Lots of $$$$$!!!111
14:15:39 <kidehen> old Microsoft message :-)
14:15:50 <kidehen> but in a platform independent way
14:15:54 <PaulaP> :)
14:16:10 <mdzbor> maybe include more focus on use cases? we need real examples of using SW, how people can use it
14:16:22 <mdzbor> maybe taking something from ivan's use case page
14:16:35 <kidehen> +q
14:17:06 <mdzbor> maybe multi-modal web brochure might be a good inspiration?
14:17:18 <mdzbor> (marie provided examples to dunja)
14:17:22 <Frank> The Semantic Web: Making the world green!!!!!!
14:17:26 <ivan> q+
14:17:39 <ivan> ack kidehen
14:18:10 <mdzbor> kingsley also agrees with a need for a punchline: e.g "information at your fingertips (paltform independent"
14:18:25 <mdzbor> flyer should contain something saying what is the value of SW
14:19:06 <mdzbor> people should make suggestions of a punchline thru mailing list
14:19:54 <mdzbor> ivan is worried of using words like "intelligent", "smart"....
14:20:04 <mdzbor> (in the context of punchlines)
14:20:36 <mdzbor> ivan says we should not create unreasonable expectations with too blown-up catchphrases
14:20:49 <Dunja> +1
14:20:59 <mdzbor> orri suggests emphasizing multiple datasets, combinations, etc
14:21:08 <PaulaP> +1 to Ivan's comment
14:21:21 <kidehen> Data Meshing without Compromise!
14:21:50 <kjetilk> Giving you your data!
14:21:55 <kidehen> Knowledge at your fingertips!
14:22:01 <kjetilk> Delivering your data!
14:22:04 <PaulaP> -1 to use 'data meshing'
14:22:20 <leobard> The web is a database! :-)
14:22:22 <mdzbor> should we sent proposals for phrases to the mailing list by (say) tomorrow?
14:22:27 <IanJ> Learn More from What you Know
14:22:47 <kidehen> Meshable Data Web!
14:22:57 <IanJ> a tes souhaits
14:23:05 <leobard> The ultimate slogan!
14:23:18 <mdzbor> action: dunja sends mail to the list asking for slogan proposals
14:23:33 <ivan> q?
14:23:42 <ivan> ack ivan
14:23:51 <mdzbor> ACTION: all contribute to the slogans via maling list
14:24:32 <mdzbor> among use cases are some nice figures that might perhaps be reused in the flyer?
14:24:59 <mdzbor> are more figures needed or shall we go for testimonials?
14:25:46 <mdzbor> another point mentioned by marie claire is re covers/colour schemes
14:25:53 <Susie> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/sweo/group/wiki/first_drafts
14:26:57 <mdzbor> we should use 'comapany colours" = blue
14:27:19 <mdzbor> WWW+semantics looks cool, but may be hard to interpret?
14:27:32 <mdzbor> ivan prefers second design (w/printed boards)
14:27:59 <IanJ> please see above comment re: not using grid imagery from comm team
14:28:04 <mdzbor> DNA helix conveys notion of science, boards convey technology, so it's a nice 'integration' of the two areas
14:29:14 <PaulaP> +1 to mdzbor
14:29:37 <ivan> ian, we are not sure what you refer to...
14:30:00 <mdzbor> another point is about the idea of a grid and wavy lines
14:30:02 <IanJ> the cover pages have grids on them.
14:30:10 <IanJ> (horz, vert lines)
14:30:17 <IanJ> grid suggests The Grid; risk of confusion
14:30:24 <mdzbor> close this agendum
14:30:43 <mdzbor> open agendum 4
14:30:48 <mdzbor> open agendum 5
14:31:06 <IanJ> w3m meeting has been extended...I am unlikely to be able to attend by phone.
14:31:10 <IanJ> My sincere apologies.
14:31:41 <mdzbor> re agenda item 1: logo is needed in format suitable for print (EPS, SVG,...) 
14:31:43 <Dunja> de@webxcerpt.com
14:32:10 <IanJ> I may have to schedule time with Ivan + MCF to talk about logos, brochures, to provide you with more input.
14:32:21 <ivan> mcf@w3.org -> Marie's email address
14:32:39 <Zakim> -Marie-Claire
14:33:19 <mdzbor> ian shall probably participate directly in a teleon, rather than ivan medaiting
14:33:51 <mdzbor> ACTION: susie contacts Ian re logo, etc. maybe a small grp call with relevant people 
14:34:03 <mdzbor> now to item 5, use cases
14:34:09 <IanJ> I am happy to attend, but for scheduling conflict.
14:34:35 <mdzbor> ivan sez there was a bit of rush as we received 5 cases at once
14:35:20 <mdzbor> index page has been processed with exhibit, but had to be scaled down due to some issues in presentation
14:35:29 <mdzbor> we now have 18 cases, good work
14:35:56 <mdzbor> ivan contacted some pending companies , offering existing cases as inspiration
14:36:06 <mdzbor> this includes vodafone, siemens,...
14:36:40 <mdzbor> ivan also spoke to HP (re Jena customers as a source of use cases?); also a US company
14:37:09 <mdzbor> susie found info about DJ using SW in their operation, so ivan contacted them
14:37:23 <mdzbor> current objective is to get from 18 to 50 entries....
14:37:42 <mdzbor> so far we (mainly ivan) us doing very good job in promoting this activity 
14:38:05 <mdzbor> out of 18 we he have 11 already deployed slutions, 7 are more experimental
14:38:15 <mdzbor> close this agendum
14:38:31 <mdzbor> agenda add info gathering update
14:38:39 <mdzbor> open agendum 7
14:38:46 <mdzbor> open agendum 5
14:38:52 <kjetilk> q+ to mention http://nepomuk-kde.semanticdesktop.org/ for a use case
14:39:10 <mdzbor> leo sez there is a good collaboration between people involved in the task
14:39:39 <mdzbor> there was some additional work done on the portal mainly on graphics
14:39:48 <mdzbor> proposal of portal layout is now on wiki
14:40:20 <mdzbor> ivan wants the portal to "look entirely different" :-)
14:40:26 <leobard> ivan feedback to portalplans: it should be smoothly integrated with the SWEO pages
14:41:21 <mdzbor> maybe we should reimport bibliography info? 
14:42:07 <mdzbor> the next thing should be the list of all sources we had (in public/private level of detail)
14:42:30 <mdzbor> one can get answer to many things in sparql, 
14:42:44 <mdzbor> susie asks ivan if we can include use cases into info portal
14:43:21 <mdzbor> would something like creative commons licence apply to individual use cases? or to their summaries"
14:43:39 <mdzbor> use cases are copyrigth of submitters, not W3C, which is good
14:44:02 <mdzbor> what can be CC licence could be ivan's rss feed, which can then go to the portal
14:44:47 <mdzbor> essentially, CC would apply to one particular representation of the use cases, which can then be meshed into other stuff
14:45:18 <mdzbor> ACTION: ivan to consider chaning the and including the copyright info into the RSS feed (instead of generic W3C lic.)
14:45:48 <mdzbor> ivan also suggests that info portal should/could look like the SWEO page or like SemWeb@W3C page?
14:46:15 <mdzbor> preferred design is W3C style of SWEO info portal (re colours, styles, W3C logo)
14:46:56 <mdzbor> benjamin's doing a good job on designing things, but do we have "real designers" available?
14:47:28 <mdzbor> dunja sez the same person working on the flyer can help with the web page, but ivan asks if we really need a designer (might be expensive)
14:47:54 <mdzbor> we like benji's designs... :-)
14:47:58 <PaulaP> I don't think we need a designer for a Web page
14:48:02 <bengee> :)
14:48:23 <mdzbor> paul walsh also proposed using their resources?
14:48:37 <PaulaP> for a portal the most important thing is to easily find the needed information
14:49:36 <mdzbor> benji can do basic strip-down design with simple layout, for more we can approach paul (segala)
14:50:04 <IanJ> I can join now.
14:50:11 <IanJ> should I, or too late?
14:50:13 <Susie> yes
14:50:18 <IanJ> zakim, what's the code?
14:50:18 <Zakim> the conference code is 7936 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), IanJ
14:50:30 <mdzbor> ACTION: Leo & Benjamin approach Paul Walsh (Segala) re designs, etc. (include Ian J as well?)
14:50:36 <Zakim> +Ian
14:51:08 <marie> marie has joined #sweo
14:51:10 <leobard> just for the records, Paul's idea of helping was in this mail: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-sweo-ig/2007Feb/0114.html
14:51:18 <bengee> http://esw.w3.org/topic/SweoIG/TaskForces/Logos
14:51:29 <mdzbor> ian's giving feedback on logos, etc
14:51:29 <IanJ> zakim, who's here?
14:51:29 <Zakim> On the phone I see susie, Ivan, kjetilk, wing, martin, benjee, Dunja, Kingsley, Orri, Jeff_Schiffel, leo, +99086aacc, Frank_Chum, Ian
14:51:31 <Zakim> wing has wing, LeeF
14:51:32 <Zakim> On IRC I see marie, FrankC, LeeF, kidehen, Dunja, wing, leobard, PaulaP, Susie, IanJ, mdzbor, RRSAgent, Zakim, bengee, ivan, kjetilk
14:52:13 <mdzbor> ian sez that more abstract logos are good, could be used more widely
14:52:34 <mdzbor> people appreciate harmonized look and feel across technologies
14:52:49 <mdzbor> what is our timeframe fo getting these logos done?
14:53:28 <mdzbor> there are a few standards efforts that are reaching the stage where they would need some logos, various groups already work on logo...
14:53:53 <mdzbor> we contacted grddl and rdf/a people that we are working on a logo, harmonize, etc.
14:55:15 <mdzbor> ian asks if this grp has some further changes to do on logos
14:55:36 <mdzbor> susie sez we have a few proposals, but didn't progress before getting feedback from ian
14:56:31 <mdzbor> ACTION: pass logos, graphics, etc. onto Ian, Fabrice (?)
14:56:48 <mdzbor> include benjamin, dunja, paula,....
14:57:18 <mdzbor> good examples of "talking logos" are OWL, sparql logos and the like
14:57:31 <marie> +1 - i love them
14:58:40 <mdzbor> clarification: logo effort should be talked thru in a smaller grp with relevant people e.g. via telecon 
14:59:02 <mdzbor> ivan asks whether brochures and logos shall be considered separately
14:59:25 <mdzbor> (it might be good to have too many designers for one brochure)
14:59:39 <mdzbor> s/be good/be not good
14:59:48 <kidehen> the professional designer I offered seems to have been completely lost in the mix here :-)
15:00:01 <leobard> sorry guys, have to go.
15:00:11 <leobard> best regards.
15:00:23 <Zakim> -leo
15:00:40 <mdzbor> let's keep then brochure design and logo discussion/design separate
15:01:12 <mdzbor> ian sez that the artwork in the flyer needs a bit sexing-up
15:02:25 <mdzbor> ivan sez that so far there was discussion mainly on the cover and a bit about possible content, but not really the design of the insider
15:03:23 <mdzbor> may be we should scale down on attention to graphical layout and start looking also into the actual text
15:03:38 <mdzbor> ...so that it's suitable not only for developers but also for non-techies
15:03:46 <marie> +1
15:03:57 <Zakim> - +99086aacc
15:04:28 <mdzbor> ian suggests including an example of what SW is for, short, quick, simple "answer" to what we are actually talking about 
15:04:50 <mdzbor> ...this is a smaller scope than revising full-scale FAQ-s
15:05:18 <mdzbor> the point is to have some higher level wording
15:06:22 <mdzbor> ACTION: Dunja would consult this with Ian, (Paula, Susie, Ivan) -- maybe schedule a call?
15:07:09 <mdzbor> ian gives some cosntraints on this call
15:07:29 <IanJ> proposed 11:30am ET on 12 June!
15:07:44 <mdzbor> in the meantime, paula/dunja may look at use cases with a fresh eye to pick 1-2 examples that might be reused in the flyer?
15:09:01 <PaulaP> I don't really have much time before June 12, but I can of course try to do something
15:09:08 <mdzbor> close this agendum
15:09:20 <LeeF> zakim, you stubborn mule
15:09:20 <Zakim> I don't understand 'you stubborn mule', LeeF
15:09:24 <Zakim> -Kingsley
15:09:25 <Zakim> -susie
15:09:26 <Zakim> -Ian
15:09:27 <Zakim> -Jeff_Schiffel
15:09:28 <Zakim> -Orri
15:09:29 <Zakim> -Frank_Chum
15:09:31 <Zakim> -Ivan
15:09:32 <Zakim> -kjetilk
15:09:34 <wing> wing has left #sweo
15:09:34 <Zakim> -wing
15:09:35 <Zakim> -martin
15:09:42 <Zakim> -Dunja
15:09:47 <FrankC> FrankC has left #SWEO
15:09:50 <kjetilk> q-
15:09:56 <mdzbor> close this agendum
15:10:03 <mdzbor> close this agendum
15:10:04 <ivan> bengee, yes
15:10:08 <bengee> 'k
15:10:13 <ivan> rrsagent, draft minutes
15:10:13 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/06/06-SWEO-minutes.html ivan
15:10:21 <ivan> rrsagent, bye
15:10:21 <RRSAgent> I see 7 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2007/06/06-SWEO-actions.rdf :
15:10:21 <RRSAgent> ACTION: dunja sends mail to the list asking for slogan proposals [1]
15:10:21 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/06/06-SWEO-irc#T14-23-18
15:10:21 <RRSAgent> ACTION: all contribute to the slogans via maling list [2]
15:10:21 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/06/06-SWEO-irc#T14-23-51
15:10:21 <RRSAgent> ACTION: susie contacts Ian re logo, etc. maybe a small grp call with relevant people  [3]
15:10:21 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/06/06-SWEO-irc#T14-33-51
15:10:21 <RRSAgent> ACTION: ivan to consider chaning the and including the copyright info into the RSS feed (instead of generic W3C lic.) [4]
15:10:21 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/06/06-SWEO-irc#T14-45-18
15:10:21 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Leo & Benjamin approach Paul Walsh (Segala) re designs, etc. (include Ian J as well?) [5]
15:10:21 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/06/06-SWEO-irc#T14-50-30
15:10:21 <RRSAgent> ACTION: pass logos, graphics, etc. onto Ian, Fabrice (?) [6]
15:10:21 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/06/06-SWEO-irc#T14-56-31
15:10:21 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Dunja would consult this with Ian, (Paula, Susie, Ivan) -- maybe schedule a call? [7]
15:10:21 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/06/06-SWEO-irc#T15-06-22