14:54:55 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #swd
14:54:55 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2007/06/05-swd-irc
14:55:01 <TomB> rrsagent, bookmark
14:55:01 <RRSAgent> See http://www.w3.org/2007/06/05-swd-irc#T14-55-01
14:55:10 <TomB> zakim, this will be swd
14:55:10 <Zakim> ok, TomB, I see SW_SWD()11:00AM already started
14:55:16 <TomB> Meeting: SWD WG
14:55:18 <TomB> Chair: Tom
14:55:52 <TomB> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swd-wg/2007Jun/0002.html
14:56:05 <RalphS> rrsagent, please make record public
14:56:36 <TomB> Previous: http://www.w3.org/2007/05/29-swd-minutes.html
14:56:46 <Zakim> +Ralph
14:58:02 <TomB> Regrets: Daniel, Michael, Diego, Vit, Sean, Alistair, Clay, Simone
14:58:09 <Antoine> Antoine has joined #swd
14:58:37 <edsu2> edsu2 has joined #swd
14:59:23 <TomB> Edsu, welcome!
15:00:00 <Zakim> +Justin
15:00:22 <RalphS> zakim, justin is really EdSummers
15:00:22 <Zakim> +EdSummers; got it
15:00:40 <Elisa> Elisa has joined #swd
15:00:59 <JonP> JonP has joined #swd
15:01:08 <Bern> Bern has joined #swd
15:01:10 <Zakim> +Guus
15:01:43 <Zakim> +Bernard
15:01:46 <Zakim> +Antoine_Isaac
15:02:32 <Zakim> +JonP
15:02:34 <TomB> http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/Scribing.html
15:02:45 <guus> guus has joined #swd
15:03:33 <RalphS> rrsagent, pointer?
15:03:33 <RRSAgent> See http://www.w3.org/2007/06/05-swd-irc#T15-03-33
15:03:45 <guus> zakim, who is here?
15:03:45 <Zakim> On the phone I see TomB, Ralph, EdSummers, Guus, Bernard, Antoine_Isaac, JonP
15:03:49 <Zakim> On IRC I see guus, Bern, JonP, Elisa, edsu, Antoine, RRSAgent, Zakim, TomB, RalphS
15:03:57 <benadida> benadida has joined #SWD
15:04:03 <benadida> dialing in...
15:04:42 <Zakim> + +1.781.237.aaaa
15:04:50 <benadida> ?aaaa is me
15:04:55 <benadida> zakim, aaaa is me
15:04:55 <Zakim> +benadida; got it
15:05:48 <TomB> Scribe: benadida
15:05:57 <TomB> Scribenick: benadida
15:06:17 <benadida> Regrets: Daniel, Michael, Diego, Vit, Sean, Alistair
15:06:27 <guus> zakim, who is here?
15:06:27 <Zakim> On the phone I see TomB, Ralph, EdSummers, Guus, Bernard, Antoine_Isaac, JonP, benadida
15:06:29 <Zakim> On IRC I see benadida, guus, Bern, JonP, Elisa, edsu, Antoine, RRSAgent, Zakim, TomB, RalphS
15:06:45 <benadida> TomB: welcome Ed Summers, new member from library of congress
15:06:59 <RalphS> Topic: Admin
15:07:12 <Zakim> +Elisa_Kendall
15:07:17 <benadida> EdS: doing some experiments with SKOS with Rob Sanderson (Liverpool)
15:07:43 <benadida> ... categorizing books, new journals. Awkward, PDF form, data munging, figuring out semantics from layout
15:08:00 <benadida> ... came up with simple SKOS file.
15:08:40 <benadida> ... connected with TomB, working with colleague on updating formats for library data, taxonomies.
15:09:05 <TomB> s/colleague/colleague Barbara Tillett/
15:09:22 <benadida> ... looking at ways to make data URL-addressable on the web
15:09:45 <benadida> ... fairly new to semweb, but have followed XML closely
15:10:04 <RalphS> welcome, Ed
15:10:11 <edsu> thanks :)
15:10:35 <benadida> TomB: recent publication, use case document is a good place to start.
15:10:59 <benadida> TomB: PROPOSE to accept minutes of 5/29 telecon
15:11:08 <benadida> RESOLVED to accept minutes of 2007-05-29 telecon
15:11:47 <benadida> TomB: postponing discussion of f2f until next week
15:12:08 <benadida> Topic: SKOS
15:12:38 <benadida> TomB: comments on readability: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swd-wg/2007May/0079.html
15:12:49 <benadida> Antoine: the confusion came from the last part and the names given to requirements
15:13:00 <benadida> ... commenter expected names to denote official relationships
15:13:25 <benadida> ... hopefully can be solved easily for next versiokn
15:13:30 <guus> q+
15:13:30 <benadida> s/versiokn/version/
15:13:41 <benadida> TomB: a number of links need to be made on the site, volunteer?
15:14:01 <benadida> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swd-wg/2007May/0051.html
15:14:43 <benadida> TomB: SKOS pages on wiki and w3c web site. They are not quite current, missing links to UCR.
15:14:54 <benadida> ACTION: Ralph to update SKOS pages to point to UCR
15:15:19 <guus> [I want to say a few words about repkying to comments
15:15:19 <benadida> TomB: no rush
15:15:46 <benadida> Guus: a few words on replying to comments from outsiders, as this is the first time.
15:16:20 <benadida> ... if you reply to someone from outside, a number of rules.
15:16:27 <benadida> ... (1) be extremely polite
15:16:56 <benadida> ... (2) try to reply by citing the document itself
15:17:10 <benadida> ... what you remember is not necessarily what the document says
15:17:27 <benadida> ... (3) is commenter satisfied with response? Can we close the comment?
15:18:13 <benadida> ... can give some examples of good comment responses
15:18:37 <benadida> ... if a document gets no response, that's bad. Interest = comments.
15:18:54 <benadida> ACTION: Guus to point to typical responses that follow these guidelines
15:19:09 <benadida> s/these guidelines/guidelines described in telecon/
15:19:31 <benadida> Antoine: what if something in the mail is very wrong?
15:19:40 <RalphS> I second Guus' comments about the value of giving careful responses
15:20:02 <benadida> Guus: give a careful, methodical response. The conclusion is not "do you agree," but rather "can you live with it?"
15:20:23 <benadida> Ralph: looking at the document is indeed important, as memory != document.
15:20:35 <benadida> TomB: very useful, thanks.
15:20:42 <benadida> ACTION: Alistair to fix wording on skos issues sandbox
15:20:46 <benadida> --CONTINUES
15:20:59 <benadida> ACTION: Alistair will look at raising the examples from the issues to test cases   [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/05/15-swd-minutes.html#action06]
15:21:01 <benadida> -- CONTINUES
15:21:10 <benadida> ACTION: TomB to fix wording of IssuesProcess [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/05/29-swd-minutes.html#action10]
15:21:13 <benadida> --DONE
15:21:24 <benadida> TomB: look at http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/wiki/IssuesProcess
15:22:13 <benadida> ... added lifecycle issues mentioned last week
15:22:18 <benadida> ... if an issue is not in the tracker, it's not an issue
15:22:55 <benadida> ... issues are assigned, issues are periodically reviewed
15:23:29 <benadida> (scribe skipping TomB's description of doc, refer to http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/wiki/IssuesProcess)
15:23:43 <RalphS> (Tom reviews 1.2. Life cycle of issues)
15:23:49 <RalphS> s/1.2/1.3/
15:24:21 <benadida> TomB: discuss on list or next week
15:24:31 <benadida> Ralph: small question on transition from "raised" to "open"
15:24:57 <benadida> ... in this draft, "open" = actively worked on, in other WGs, it feels that open is lower threshold
15:25:38 <benadida> Guus: if it affects the requirements, it must be recorded
15:25:55 <benadida> Ralph: worried about issues staying in "raised" state too long. As long as we quickly cover raised issues.
15:26:28 <benadida> Guus: OWL experience, 60 issues total, 6-7 hairy ones, 6-7 difficult. Once the hairy and difficult were resolved, remaining issues were resolved quickly.
15:26:44 <RalphS> q+
15:27:17 <TomB> ack RalphS
15:27:23 <benadida> ... if we resolve the current issues, we can produce a new WD for SKOS, and then resolve remaining issues.
15:27:44 <benadida> Ralph: my concern would be resolved if, when we move to LC, we've only address all open issues and we have no raised issues left.
15:27:53 <benadida> Guus: when we go to LC, issue list should contain no raised or open issue
15:28:00 <benadida> ... resolved, dropped, or postponed.
15:28:04 <benadida> Ralph: that's fine.
15:28:26 <benadida> ACTION: Jon and Alistair: Move SKOS issues over from Sandbox to Tracker on an ongoing basis [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/05/08-swd-minutes.html#action10]
15:28:29 <benadida> --CONTINUES
15:28:34 <benadida> Jon: we haven't coordinated on issues to move
15:29:27 <benadida> ... can't say we're done with it yet
15:29:45 <benadida> Issue-26: RelationshipsBetweenLabels (http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/track/issues/26)
15:30:20 <benadida> Guus: proposal http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swd-wg/2007May/0057.html
15:31:11 <benadida> Guus: one issue. current proposal lets you use terms as resources
15:31:32 <benadida> (scribe getting a bit lost here, less familiar with this work.)
15:32:41 <benadida> Guus: if we resolve this one issue, we can come to a consensus
15:33:59 <benadida> Guus: wordsense binds a particular term to a particular meaning
15:34:34 <benadida> ... proposal: we need to talk about relationships between terms
15:34:57 <benadida> ... discussion is whether wordsense needs a separate discussion
15:35:00 <benadida> ... would make SKOS too complex
15:35:50 <benadida> Antoine: my comment is about refusing to use the word "term"
15:35:56 <benadida> Guus: matter of naming.
15:36:33 <Antoine> my real comments on issue 26 are http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swd-wg/2007May/0072.html
15:36:49 <benadida> ACTION: Guus to rephrase current proposal, slightly revise naming based on comments
15:37:14 <benadida> Guus: we are ready to close on this if Daniel gives ok (while traveling)
15:37:21 <TomB> +1 I like the proposal - would be happy to bring to a vote
15:37:54 <benadida> Guus: Antoine, could you place my proposal in the wiki, then I will edit?
15:37:57 <benadida> Antoine: yes, by tomorrow.
15:39:52 <benadida> Guus: (answer to question), in current SKOS, terms are more directly attached to concept, but old SKOS works ok.
15:41:09 <Antoine> http://www.w3.org/mid/46481A20.3080008@few.vu.nl
15:41:20 <TomB> ACTION: Antoine to put SimpleExtensionProposal into wiki
15:41:22 <benadida> Antoine: I am pasting links to original discussions
15:41:31 <Bern> q+ to ask if we have already determined that this is a necessary requirement
15:41:38 <TomB> ack Bern
15:41:38 <Zakim> Bern, you wanted to ask if we have already determined that this is a necessary requirement
15:42:12 <benadida> Bern: was this a necessary requirement before we provided a solution to it?
15:42:16 <benadida> Guus: we thought it was
15:42:23 <benadida> Bern: recorded anywhere?
15:42:34 <benadida> Guus: good question, thought it was a conclusion from Boston f2f.
15:42:50 <benadida> ... I will look this up
15:43:54 <benadida> Antoine: an important aspect of this issue, if we don't do anything, no one will be able to represent this kind of link
15:44:08 <benadida> ... does it bring too much trouble in existing SKOS proposal, is the model really complex?
15:44:42 <benadida> Guus: in a compromise, we cannot fully satisfy a requirement
15:44:57 <benadida> Bern: some requirements in clarity, ease of use, may conflict
15:46:15 <benadida> ACTION: Guus to include a reference to the original requirements in the resolution proposal
15:46:30 <benadida> Issue-31: BasicLexicalLabelSemantics (http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/track/issues/31)
15:47:18 <benadida> Issue-33: Grouping Construct (http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/track/issues/33)
15:47:27 <benadida> ACTION: Alistair to propose minimal fix for resolution of issue 33 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/05/22-swd-minutes.html#action09]
15:47:30 <benadida> --CONTINUES
15:47:36 <benadida> SKOS text cases
15:47:44 <benadida> s/text/test/
15:47:53 <benadida> ACTION: Sean to look at the test environment supporting the SKOS semantics [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/05/15-swd-minutes.html#action05]
15:48:12 <benadida> --DONE
15:48:19 <benadida> Topic: Recipes
15:48:23 <benadida> ACTION: Ralph propose resolution to Recipe issue 1.3 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/04/24-swd-minutes.html#action09]
15:48:25 <benadida> --CONTINUES
15:48:35 <benadida> Topic: VOCABULARY MANAGEMENT
15:48:42 <benadida> ACTION: Elisa to provide outline of work to be done by Apr 17 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/04/24-swd-minutes.html#action11]
15:48:46 <benadida> --DONE
15:49:16 <benadida> Elisa: a bit more structure/examples can be worked on
15:49:25 <benadida> ... willing to set up a time to do this
15:49:51 <Zakim> -Guus
15:49:58 <RalphS> scribenick: Ralphs
15:50:10 <RalphS> Topic: RDFa
15:50:18 <RalphS> Ben: RDFa telecons are on the new telecon schedule, meeting Thursdays
15:50:34 <RalphS> ... yesterday there was an alpha release of FireFox Operator support for RDFa
15:50:44 <RalphS> ... documents are a bit behind; working on issues
15:51:04 <RalphS> ... discussing now where to define boundary between RDFa and host language
15:51:09 <RalphS> scribenick: benadida
15:51:21 <benadida> TomB: any remaining issues.
15:51:34 <benadida> next telecon next week
15:51:40 <Zakim> -Bernard
15:51:42 <Zakim> -Antoine_Isaac
15:51:43 <Zakim> -JonP
15:51:45 <Zakim> -Elisa_Kendall
15:51:47 <Zakim> -EdSummers
15:51:48 <Antoine> Antoine has left #swd
15:51:49 <Zakim> -Ralph
15:52:29 <TomB> zakim, list attendees
15:52:29 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been Ralph, TomB, EdSummers, Guus, Bernard, Antoine_Isaac, JonP, +1.781.237.aaaa, benadida, Elisa_Kendall
15:52:45 <TomB> rrsagent, please draft minutes
15:52:45 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/06/05-swd-minutes.html TomB
15:53:37 <Zakim> -benadida
15:53:42 <Zakim> -TomB
15:53:43 <Zakim> SW_SWD()11:00AM has ended
15:53:44 <Zakim> Attendees were Ralph, TomB, EdSummers, Guus, Bernard, Antoine_Isaac, JonP, +1.781.237.aaaa, benadida, Elisa_Kendall
15:54:23 <edsu> so cvs was mentioned -- is that where test cases are?
15:54:36 <edsu> i should've asked while i had you on the line i guess
15:58:35 <benadida> benadida has left #SWD
16:58:25 <edsu> edsu has left #swd
18:31:40 <RalphS> zakim, bye
18:31:40 <Zakim> Zakim has left #swd
18:31:43 <RalphS> rrsagent, bye
18:31:43 <RRSAgent> I see 13 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2007/06/05-swd-actions.rdf :
18:31:43 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Ralph to update SKOS pages to point to UCR [1]
18:31:43 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/06/05-swd-irc#T15-14-54
18:31:43 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Guus to point to typical responses that follow these guidelines [2]
18:31:43 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/06/05-swd-irc#T15-18-54
18:31:43 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Alistair to fix wording on skos issues sandbox [3]
18:31:43 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/06/05-swd-irc#T15-20-42
18:31:43 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Alistair will look at raising the examples from the issues to test cases   [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/05/15-swd-minutes.html#action06] [4]
18:31:43 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/06/05-swd-irc#T15-20-59
18:31:43 <RRSAgent> ACTION: TomB to fix wording of IssuesProcess [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/05/29-swd-minutes.html#action10] [5]
18:31:43 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/06/05-swd-irc#T15-21-10
18:31:43 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Jon and Alistair: Move SKOS issues over from Sandbox to Tracker on an ongoing basis [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/05/08-swd-minutes.html#action10] [6]
18:31:43 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/06/05-swd-irc#T15-28-26
18:31:43 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Guus to rephrase current proposal, slightly revise naming based on comments [7]
18:31:43 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/06/05-swd-irc#T15-36-49
18:31:43 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Antoine to put SimpleExtensionProposal into wiki [8]
18:31:43 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/06/05-swd-irc#T15-41-20
18:31:43 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Guus to include a reference to the original requirements in the resolution proposal [9]
18:31:43 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/06/05-swd-irc#T15-46-15
18:31:43 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Alistair to propose minimal fix for resolution of issue 33 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/05/22-swd-minutes.html#action09] [10]
18:31:43 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/06/05-swd-irc#T15-47-27
18:31:43 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Sean to look at the test environment supporting the SKOS semantics [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/05/15-swd-minutes.html#action05] [11]
18:31:43 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/06/05-swd-irc#T15-47-53
18:31:43 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Ralph propose resolution to Recipe issue 1.3 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/04/24-swd-minutes.html#action09] [12]
18:31:43 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/06/05-swd-irc#T15-48-23
18:31:43 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Elisa to provide outline of work to be done by Apr 17 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/04/24-swd-minutes.html#action11] [13]
18:31:43 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/06/05-swd-irc#T15-48-42