IRC log of xmlsec on 2007-05-22

Timestamps are in UTC.

12:27:57 [RRSAgent]

RRSAgent has joined #xmlsec

12:27:57 [RRSAgent]

logging to http://www.w3.org/2007/05/22-xmlsec-irc

12:28:00 [tlr]

zakim, this will be xmlsec

12:28:00 [Zakim]

ok, tlr; I see T&S_XMLSEC()9:00AM scheduled to start in 32 minutes

12:28:09 [tlr]

Meeting: XML Security Spec Maintenance WG

12:28:15 [tlr]

Date: 22 May 2007

12:28:16 [tlr]

Chair: tlr

12:28:20 [tlr]

scribe: phb

12:28:27 [tlr]

rrsagent, make this record member-confidential

12:28:39 [tlr]

agenda+ convene, administrivia

12:28:45 [tlr]

agenda+ lat meeting's minutes

12:28:49 [tlr]

agenda+ actio item review

12:28:52 [tlr]

zakim, drop agendum 3

12:28:52 [Zakim]

agendum 3, actio item review, dropped

12:28:55 [tlr]

agenda?

12:29:08 [tlr]

agendum 2=last meeting's minutes

12:29:11 [tlr]

zakim, agenda?

12:29:11 [Zakim]

I see 2 items remaining on the agenda:

12:29:12 [Zakim]

1. convene, administrivia [from tlr]

12:29:13 [Zakim]

2. last meeting's minutes

12:29:17 [tlr]

agendum 3= action item review

12:29:21 [tlr]

agenda?

12:29:30 [tlr]

agenda+ workshop planning

12:29:49 [tlr]

agenda+ Status of drafts: C14N11 (from XML Core)

12:29:54 [tlr]

agenda+ Status of drafts: DSig Core

12:30:05 [tlr]

agenda+ Status of drafts: Decryption Transform

12:30:16 [tlr]

agenda+ interop testing, participation expectations (member-confidential)

12:30:24 [tlr]

agenda+ test cases

12:30:34 [tlr]

agenda?

12:31:18 [tlr]

Regrets: FrederickHirsch, GilesHogben, AlekseySanin, PeterLipp

12:48:43 [grw]

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12:48:47 [tlr]

hi greg

12:49:01 [grw]

hi

12:50:04 [jcc]

jcc has joined #xmlsec

12:52:59 [Zakim]

T&S_XMLSEC()9:00AM has now started

12:53:00 [sean]

sean has joined #xmlsec

12:53:06 [Zakim]

T&S_XMLSEC()9:00AM has ended

12:53:07 [Zakim]

Attendees were

12:54:33 [tlr]

interesting

12:56:30 [EdS]

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12:56:59 [rmiller3]

rmiller3 has joined #xmlsec

12:57:14 [Zakim]

T&S_XMLSEC()9:00AM has now started

12:57:20 [Zakim]

+EdSimon

12:57:58 [hal]

hal has joined #xmlsec

12:58:21 [tlr]

zakim, call thomas-781

12:58:21 [Zakim]

ok, tlr; the call is being made

12:58:23 [Zakim]

+Thomas

12:58:27 [Zakim]

+ +1.617.876.aaaa

12:58:47 [tlr]

zakim, aaaa is sean

12:58:47 [Zakim]

+sean; got it

12:58:55 [Zakim]

+Hal_Lockhart

13:00:12 [Zakim]

+ +1.410.695.aabb

13:00:23 [tlr]

zakim, aabb is rmiller3

13:00:23 [Zakim]

+rmiller3; got it

13:00:35 [tlr]

zakim, who is on the phone?

13:00:35 [Zakim]

On the phone I see EdSimon, sean, Thomas, Hal_Lockhart, rmiller3

13:01:06 [Zakim]

+GregWhitehead

13:01:53 [Zakim]

+R_Salz

13:02:26 [tlr]

ScribeNick: hal

13:02:29 [tlr]

zakim, take up agendum 1

13:02:29 [Zakim]

agendum 1. "convene, administrivia" taken up [from tlr]

13:02:58 [tlr]

Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xmlsec-maintwg/2007May/0034.html

13:04:03 [Zakim]

+??P10

13:04:14 [tlr]

zakim, ??P10 is jcc

13:04:14 [Zakim]

+jcc; got it

13:04:18 [rmiller3]

Zakim, mute me

13:04:18 [Zakim]

rmiller3 should now be muted

13:04:56 [tlr]

zakim, take up agendum 2

13:04:56 [Zakim]

agendum 2. "last meeting's minutes" taken up

13:04:58 [hal]

resolution: next meeting May 29

13:05:04 [tlr]

http://www.w3.org/2007/05/15-xmlsec-minutes

13:05:27 [hal]

resolution: minutes accepted

13:05:32 [tlr]

zakim, take up next agendum

13:05:32 [Zakim]

agendum 2 was just opened, tlr

13:05:37 [tlr]

zakim, take up agendum 3

13:05:37 [Zakim]

agendum 3. "action item review" taken up

13:05:51 [tlr]

ACTION-5 closed

13:05:51 [trackbot-ng]

Sorry... I don't know how to close ACTION yet

13:06:21 [tlr]

ACTION-6 continued; Konrad absent

13:06:51 [tlr]

ACTION-22 done

13:07:06 [tlr]

ACTION-26 continue

13:07:13 [tlr]

zakim, take up agendum 4

13:07:13 [Zakim]

agendum 4. "workshop planning" taken up [from tlr]

13:07:34 [tlr]

http://www.w3.org/2007/xmlsec/ws/cfp.html

13:07:38 [jcc]

q

13:07:40 [jcc]

q+

13:07:44 [tlr]

ack jcc

13:08:13 [hal]

jcc: noticed typo

13:08:15 [jcc]

q-

13:08:24 [tlr]

zakim, code?

13:08:24 [Zakim]

the conference code is 965732 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), tlr

13:08:26 [PHB]

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13:08:31 [tlr]

zakim, code?

13:08:31 [Zakim]

the conference code is 965732 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), tlr

13:09:11 [Zakim]

+PHB

13:09:59 [hal]

jcc: what would be the limits on number of people from each org?

13:10:20 [hal]

tlr: if we have excessive numbers we will limit attendance

13:10:30 [hal]

tlr: standard escape hatch

13:10:43 [tlr]

ScribeNick: phb

13:11:26 [PHB2]

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13:11:48 [PHB]

hope to close cfp as soon as possible

13:11:55 [PHB]

final closure in 2 weeks

13:12:06 [PHB2]

scribenick phb2

13:12:12 [PHB2]

scribenick: phb2

13:12:25 [PHB2]

ScribeNick: phb2

13:12:41 [tlr]

ACTION: hal to propose additional types of contributions for workshop CFP

13:12:41 [trackbot-ng]

Created ACTION-28 - Propose additional types of contributions for workshop CFP [on Hal Lockhart - due 2007-05-29].

13:13:05 [tlr]

http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/40279/workshop-timing/results

13:13:23 [PHB2]

Timeline for the workshop, form open, Sept 25-27 days where no known conflicts

13:13:36 [PHB2]

aim for that

13:14:05 [PHB2]

proposal 25,26 Tues and Wed

13:14:13 [PHB2]

nem con

13:14:23 [tlr]

"nem con"?

13:14:34 [PHB2]

nobody objected, passed

13:14:43 [PHB2]

nemo considiere

13:16:18 [PHB2]

???: may be an issue regarding availability of hotels

13:16:31 [PHB2]

Thomas: ok don't do catalonia

13:16:31 [tlr]

s/???/jcc:/

13:16:53 [PHB2]

Do that later workshop

13:17:11 [tlr]

s/that later workshop/meeting of follow-up group/

13:17:42 [PHB2]

Keep offer in grateful consideration for the followup work sometime next year

13:18:48 [PHB2]

Thomas: should we do east or west coast?

13:19:03 [PHB2]

takeup Hal's offer

13:19:21 [PHB2]

Hal: given likely number of participants, any likely issues

13:19:44 [PHB2]

Thomas: given number of attewndees (40+) consider AV support

13:19:55 [tlr]

ScribeNick: PHB2

13:20:09 [tlr]

ACTION: thomas to go through hosting requirements with Hal

13:20:09 [trackbot-ng]

Created ACTION-29 - Go through hosting requirements with Hal [on Thomas Roessler - due 2007-05-29].

13:20:39 [PHB2]

Thomas: next steps

13:20:48 [PHB2]

need to discuss chair, have candidates

13:20:59 [PHB2]

need approval from W3C management

13:21:32 [PHB2]

Once approved everyone must send in a position paper (inc. members)

13:21:53 [PHB2]

Participation is open to broad community, not just W3C

13:22:12 [tlr]

ACTION: thomas to propose detailed timeline for CFP by mail

13:22:12 [trackbot-ng]

Created ACTION-30 - Propose detailed timeline for CFP by mail [on Thomas Roessler - due 2007-05-29].

13:22:48 [PHB2]

HAL: Is there a special protocol for members?

13:23:02 [tlr]

zakim, take up agendum 5

13:23:02 [Zakim]

agendum 5. "Status of drafts: C14N11 (from XML Core)" taken up [from tlr]

13:23:08 [PHB2]

Thomas: no everyone must submit a paper

13:23:18 [tlr]

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xmlsec-maintwg/2007May/0028.html

13:23:26 [tlr]

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xml-core-wg/2007May/0040

13:24:12 [PHB2]

Thomas: status of CR-Recommendation from XML-Core

13:24:27 [PHB2]

Thomas: good time to raise issues

13:25:03 [PHB2]

EdSimon: In the minutes we said we don't expect to give further feedback to XMLCore, this is respect to C14N 1.1 item

13:25:10 [PHB2]

Thomas: yes, this is the case

13:25:30 [PHB2]

.. no extensive discussion on 1.1 C18N

13:25:37 [PHB2]

other issues are open

13:26:28 [tlr]

zakim, take up agendum 6

13:26:28 [Zakim]

agendum 6. "Status of drafts: DSig Core" taken up [from tlr]

13:26:38 [tlr]

http://www.w3.org/2007/xmlsec/Drafts/xmldsig-core/

13:26:39 [PHB2]

Progress issue, 6 months after CR status and 2 interoperable implementations

13:26:44 [tlr]

http://www.w3.org/2007/xmlsec/Drafts/xmldsig-core/changes.html

13:26:50 [tlr]

s/6 months/3 months/

13:27:03 [EdS]

c18n should be c14n

13:27:36 [PHB2]

Need to walk through draft once more to see that people are OK with changes that have taken place

13:27:45 [tlr]

http://www.w3.org/2007/xmlsec/Drafts/xmldsig-core/#sec-CoreGeneration

13:28:04 [tlr]

The Reference Processing Model (section 4.3.3.2) requires that validators use Canonical XML 1.0 [XML-C14N] when a transformation that would expect an octet-stream as input is applied to a node-set. We RECOMMEND that generators do not rely on this default behavior, but explicitly identify the transformation that is applied to perform this mapping. In cases in which inclusive canonicalization is desired, we RECOMMEND that Canonical XML 1.1 [XML-C14N11] be used.

13:28:29 [jcc]

q+

13:28:43 [tlr]

ack jcc

13:29:43 [PHB2]

jcc: if an operation is applied on the input, it is not applied to the node set,

13:30:05 [PHB2]

thomas: replace applied to a node set with better wording

13:30:33 [tlr]

"is applied to a node-set" -> "would be applied to a nodeset"?

13:30:37 [sean]

q+

13:30:42 [tlr]

ack sean

13:30:50 [tlr]

q+ sean

13:31:04 [tlr]

The Reference Processing Model (section 4.3.3.2) requires that validators use Canonical XML 1.0 [XML-C14N] when a transformation that would expect an octet-stream as input is applied to a node-set.

13:31:04 [PHB2]

thomas, can everyone live with that

13:31:18 [tlr]

The Reference Processing Model (section 4.3.3.2) requires that validators use Canonical XML 1.0 [XML-C14N] when a transformation that would expect an octet-stream as input +++ WOULD BE +++ applied to a node-set.

13:32:14 [PHB2]

Thomas the point being that the transformation cannot be applied to the node set

13:32:25 [jcc]

would expecte an octet-stream as input receives a node-set

13:33:21 [PHB2]

jcc: not quite

13:34:24 [PHB2]

Thomas: propose wordsmithing change to the mailing list.

13:34:41 [PHB2]

Thomas is the normative intent of this change acceptable?

13:35:12 [tlr]

ACTION: jcc to propose rewording of "Reference processing model" sentence on mailing list

13:35:12 [trackbot-ng]

Sorry, couldn't find user - jcc

13:36:25 [tlr]

ACTION: juan-carlos to propose rewording of "Reference processing model" sentence on mailing list

13:36:25 [trackbot-ng]

Sorry, couldn't find user - juan-carlos

13:36:55 [tlr]

ACTION: cruellas to propose rewording of "Reference processing model" sentence on mailing list

13:36:56 [trackbot-ng]

Created ACTION-31 - Propose rewording of \"Reference processing model\" sentence on mailing list [on Juan Carlos Cruellas - due 2007-05-29].

13:37:05 [tlr]

RESOLUTION: normative changes in 3.1.1 agreed

13:37:23 [tlr]

q?

13:37:25 [tlr]

ack sean

13:37:33 [tlr]

s/RESOLUTION/PROPOSED RESOLUTION/

13:37:57 [PHB2]

??: first time validator and generator used in text, should be defined?

13:38:32 [PHB2]

Thomas (explains terms)

13:38:36 [tlr]

s/??/sean/

13:38:51 [PHB2]

sean: fine with the terms, just should we put in a definitio

13:40:27 [PHB2]

hal: hard to see how can have a recomendation without an actor, will someone take a recomendation?

13:40:35 [PHB2]

Thomas: sean will you volunteer?

13:40:36 [rsalz]

rsalz has joined #xmlsec

13:40:41 [PHB2]

Sean: give it a shot

13:40:51 [tlr]

ACTION: sean to propose language for "validator" and "generator" that is more in line with rest of rec's style

13:40:51 [trackbot-ng]

Created ACTION-32 - Propose language for \"validator\" and \"generator\" that is more in line with rest of rec\'s style [on Sean Mullan - due 2007-05-29].

13:41:12 [tlr]

http://www.w3.org/2007/xmlsec/Drafts/xmldsig-core/#sec-RetrievalMethod

13:41:50 [tlr]

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xmlsec-maintwg/2007May/0006.html

13:42:43 [Zakim]

-R_Salz

13:42:54 [Zakim]

+[IBMCambridge]

13:43:37 [klanz2]

klanz2 has joined #xmlsec

13:43:37 [tlr]

"For example, a reference that results in the digesting of an |Object| element containing a |SignatureProperties| element is still of type |#Object|"

13:43:41 [PHB2]

thomas: current languahge in 4.4.3

13:43:58 [klanz2]

sorry for beeing late

13:43:59 [PHB2]

... proposal from greg whitehead to add above

13:44:09 [tlr]

zakim, code?

13:44:09 [Zakim]

the conference code is 965732 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), tlr

13:44:26 [tlr]

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xmlsec-maintwg/2007May/0011.html

13:44:27 [PHB2]

red text agreed in cambridge, greg proposes adding text

13:44:50 [PHB2]

hal: makes it a lot cleaerer

13:44:56 [jcc]

q+

13:44:57 [PHB2]

nothing like a good for example

13:45:14 [PHB2]

Thomas: propose accepting change

13:45:49 [PHB2]

(confusion as to where we are)

13:46:38 [Zakim]

+??P5

13:46:45 [PHB2]

Proposal is to change 4.3.3.1

13:46:46 [klanz2]

zakim, mute me

13:46:46 [Zakim]

sorry, klanz2, I do not know which phone connection belongs to you

13:46:49 [tlr]

http://www.w3.org/2007/xmlsec/Drafts/xmldsig-core/#sec-URI

13:47:05 [klanz2]

zakim, +??P5 is klanz2

13:47:05 [Zakim]

sorry, klanz2, I do not recognize a party named '+??P5'

13:47:11 [PHB2]

Greg: proposal was to change text, was refining JCC's proposal

13:47:30 [tlr]

PROPOSED change: "For example, a reference that identifies an Object element containing a SignatureProperties element is still of type #Object." -> "For example, a reference that results in the digesting of an |Object| element containing a |SignatureProperties| element is still of type |#Object|"

13:47:31 [klanz2]

zakim, ? is klanz2

13:47:31 [Zakim]

+klanz2; got it

13:47:39 [klanz2]

zakim, mute me

13:47:39 [Zakim]

klanz2 should now be muted

13:48:21 [tlr]

RESOLUTION: proposed edit from http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xmlsec-maintwg/2007May/0011.html

13:49:14 [klanz2]

zakim, unmute me

13:49:14 [Zakim]

klanz2 should no longer be muted

13:49:34 [PHB2]

Thomas: test case, any news?

13:50:00 [PHB2]

Question about 19

13:50:15 [PHB2]

??? havent done up to now, should not be too hard

13:50:26 [tlr]

s/???/Konrad:/

13:50:27 [jcc]

zakim, mute me

13:50:27 [Zakim]

jcc should now be muted

13:50:33 [PHB2]

should be done today

13:50:37 [tlr]

ACTION-19 hopefully closed today

13:50:56 [klanz2]

zakim, mute me

13:50:56 [Zakim]

klanz2 should now be muted

13:50:58 [tlr]

E01 remains unresolved

13:51:34 [jcc]

zakim, unmute me

13:51:34 [Zakim]

jcc should no longer be muted

13:51:35 [PHB2]

Changes to e05 agreed?

13:51:38 [jcc]

q+

13:51:54 [PHB2]

As are ?? changes to the schema

13:52:19 [PHB2]

confirming proposed normative changes

13:52:23 [tlr]

q?

13:52:26 [tlr]

ack jcc

13:53:01 [PHB2]

jcc: issue with the change

13:53:34 [tlr]

ACTION: thomas to change formatting of 4.4.3 note

13:53:36 [PHB2]

thomas: its a browser issue

13:53:36 [trackbot-ng]

Created ACTION-33 - Change formatting of 4.4.3 note [on Thomas Roessler - due 2007-05-29].

13:53:48 [PHB2]

will change the formatting to make it readable

13:53:57 [tlr]

http://www.w3.org/2007/xmlsec/Drafts/xmldsig-core/#sec-c14nAlg

13:53:58 [PHB2]

thomas: c14n algorithms

13:54:33 [tlr]

This specification REQUIRES implementation of both Canonical XML 1.0 [XML-C14N] and Canonical XML 1.1 [XML-C14N11]. We RECOMMEND that generators chose Canonical XML 1.1 [XML-C14N11] when inclusive canonicalizatoin is desired.

13:55:16 [PHB2]

people please review and approve this text

13:55:17 [sean]

q+

13:55:22 [tlr]

ack sean

13:55:44 [tlr]

sean: fix canonicalizatoin to canonicalization!

13:57:37 [klanz2]

q?

13:58:05 [PHB2]

jcc: query resolution

13:58:15 [PHB2]

thomas: clarify

13:59:23 [PHB2]

thomas: 6.5.2, (describe changes)

13:59:34 [PHB2]

... identifiers left open for now

13:59:54 [PHB2]

renew identifier proposed for last call or come up with a new one

13:59:55 [klanz2]

zakim, unmute me

13:59:55 [Zakim]

klanz2 should no longer be muted

14:01:06 [tlr]

action: konrad to verify that CR version of C14N11 has no conformance-affecting changes against http://www.w3.org/TR/2006/WD-xml-c14n11-20061220/

14:01:08 [trackbot-ng]

Created ACTION-34 - Verify that CR version of C14N11 has no conformance-affecting changes against http://www.w3.org/TR/2006/WD-xml-c14n11-20061220/ [on Konrad Lanz - due 2007-05-29].

14:02:10 [PHB2]

if the text changes may need new identifier, otherwise reuse old one

14:02:22 [PHB2]

jcc: request clarification

14:03:32 [PHB2]

thomas: describe changes to note in 6.5.2, gramar changes only

14:03:51 [tlr]

ed simon: move note above 6.5.1

14:03:53 [tlr]

so resolved

14:04:51 [tlr]

http://www.w3.org/2007/xmlsec/Drafts/xmldsig-core/#sec-c14nAlg

14:05:39 [tlr]

Note: The Reference Generation Model (section 3.1.1) includes further restrictions on the reliance of implicitly defined default transformations by signature generators.

14:05:50 [tlr]

of -> upon

14:06:27 [klanz2]

btw. : CR http://www.w3.org/XML/Group/2007/05/CR-xml-c14n11-20070509

14:06:50 [PHB2]

Thomas: ok everyone? nobody objects?

14:06:57 [PHB2]

Thomas: done with the agenda

14:07:22 [Zakim]

-GregWhitehead

14:07:24 [PHB2]

adjorned

14:07:24 [Zakim]

-Hal_Lockhart

14:07:25 [tlr]

rrsagent, please make this record public

14:07:26 [Zakim]

-sean

14:07:27 [Zakim]

-jcc

14:07:29 [Zakim]

-[IBMCambridge]

14:07:29 [Zakim]

-rmiller3

14:07:30 [Zakim]

-PHB

14:07:32 [tlr]

zakim, list attendees

14:07:32 [Zakim]

As of this point the attendees have been EdSimon, Thomas, +1.617.876.aaaa, sean, Hal_Lockhart, +1.410.695.aabb, rmiller3, GregWhitehead, R_Salz, jcc, PHB, [IBMCambridge], klanz2

14:07:37 [tlr]

rrsagent, please draft minutes

14:07:37 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/05/22-xmlsec-minutes.html tlr

14:07:39 [klanz2]

zakim, unmute me

14:07:39 [Zakim]

klanz2 was not muted, klanz2

14:07:44 [tlr]

phb, there are your minutes. Thanks for revising

14:09:10 [tlr]

rrsagent, excuse us

14:09:10 [RRSAgent]

I see 9 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2007/05/22-xmlsec-actions.rdf :

14:09:10 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: hal to propose additional types of contributions for workshop CFP [1]

14:09:10 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/05/22-xmlsec-irc#T13-12-41

14:09:10 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: thomas to go through hosting requirements with Hal [2]

14:09:10 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/05/22-xmlsec-irc#T13-20-09

14:09:10 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: thomas to propose detailed timeline for CFP by mail [3]

14:09:10 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/05/22-xmlsec-irc#T13-22-12

14:09:10 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: jcc to propose rewording of "Reference processing model" sentence on mailing list [4]

14:09:10 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/05/22-xmlsec-irc#T13-35-12

14:09:10 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: juan-carlos to propose rewording of "Reference processing model" sentence on mailing list [5]

14:09:10 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/05/22-xmlsec-irc#T13-36-25

14:09:10 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: cruellas to propose rewording of "Reference processing model" sentence on mailing list [6]

14:09:10 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/05/22-xmlsec-irc#T13-36-55

14:09:10 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: sean to propose language for "validator" and "generator" that is more in line with rest of rec's style [7]

14:09:10 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/05/22-xmlsec-irc#T13-40-51

14:09:10 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: thomas to change formatting of 4.4.3 note [8]

14:09:10 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/05/22-xmlsec-irc#T13-53-34

14:09:10 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: konrad to verify that CR version of C14N11 has no conformance-affecting changes against http://www.w3.org/TR/2006/WD-xml-c14n11-20061220/ [9]

14:09:10 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/05/22-xmlsec-irc#T14-01-06

14:09:17 [tlr]

http://www.w3.org/TR/DSig-usage/