13:58:48 RRSAgent has joined #bpwg 13:58:48 logging to http://www.w3.org/2007/05/08-bpwg-irc 13:58:49 jo, you asked to be pinged at this time 13:58:50 RRSAgent, make logs member 13:58:52 Zakim, this will be MWI_BP 13:58:52 I do not see a conference matching that name scheduled within the next hour, trackbot 13:58:53 Meeting: MWI BPWG Teleconference 13:58:53 Date: 08 May 2007 13:59:21 Meeting: mobileOK Checker Taskforce 13:59:26 Chair: Sean 13:59:54 zakim, code? 13:59:54 sorry, jo, I don't know what conference this is 13:59:59 uh-oh, I am getting "passkey not valid" on the bridge 14:00:25 zakim, list meetings 14:00:25 I don't understand 'list meetings', jo 14:00:40 dang it, I suppose we didn't make it clear to Dom we wanted to set this up 14:00:44 and the machinery is not cooperating 14:01:13 hi guys 14:01:22 i'm having trouble dialling in too 14:01:45 roland has joined #bpwg 14:01:52 I have one alternate passcode here, let me try it 14:02:09 zakim, what conferences? 14:02:09 I see VB_VBWG()10:00AM, I18N_CoreWG()10:00AM active 14:02:10 also scheduled at this time is WS_DBWG()10:00AM 14:02:12 27942 14:02:32 Hi guys..we have problems with the call too 14:02:39 zakim, room for 6? 14:02:40 ok, jo; conference Team_(bpwg)14:02Z scheduled with code 26631 (CONF1) for 60 minutes until 1502Z; however, please note that capacity is now overbooked 14:02:51 Team_(bpwg)14:02Z has now started 14:02:56 ok..we are going to try 14:02:57 OK, 26631 works 14:02:58 thanks 14:02:59 +Sean_Owen 14:03:09 I'll tell Dom we do want this slot officially going forward 14:03:23 zakim, code? 14:03:23 the conference code is 26631 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), jo 14:03:32 +Encarna 14:03:55 zakim, Encarna is me 14:03:56 +abel; got it 14:04:08 + +0208995aaaa 14:04:17 zakim, aaaa is me 14:04:17 +jo; got it 14:04:37 zakim, nacho is with me 14:04:37 +nacho; got it 14:04:51 zakim, miguel is with me 14:04:51 +miguel; got it 14:05:45 + +049221650aabb 14:06:09 zakim, aabb is Roland 14:06:09 +Roland; got it 14:06:28 zakim --> http://www.w3.org/2001/12/zakim-irc-bot.html 14:08:01 + +01854aacc 14:08:03 scribe: Jo 14:08:08 scribenick: Jo 14:08:17 zakim, aacc is Ruadhan 14:08:17 +Ruadhan; got it 14:09:11 sean: agenda is status on implementation, moki, F2F status, aob 14:09:37 Topic: Implementation Status 14:10:15 sean: we hit first milestone - i.e. something to run one test (the cacheing test) generates moki doc and results doc 14:10:26 ... which is what we wanted to do by first of may 14:10:41 ... milestone 2 is to finish most of tests by end of july 14:10:48 ... 75% that is 14:11:14 ... people working on it are "Sean, Ruadhan and Gijon Crowd" 14:11:37 ... have not done anything since late April but I have an intern coming in too 14:11:47 ... we divided up the work on tests (per list) 14:11:55 ... any comment - Abel? 14:12:01 q+ 14:12:06 ack a 14:12:24 abel: some comments on JHOVE 14:13:08 ... it has no module for XHTML Basic (??) 14:13:21 http://hul.harvard.edu/jhove/ 14:14:13 ... point 7 has no module of XHTML Basic or CSS 14:14:53 q+ 14:14:56 sean: we'll need to use Java validator and SAC but SAC may not be sufficient 14:15:09 ruadhan: thought that JHOVE did have XHTML 14:15:37 sean: JHOVE seems to have something for HTML and XML but not worried if it doesn't cover it 14:16:06 ... what CSS parsing do we need now we have chucked out SCROLLING 14:16:09 ack ab 14:16:50 abel: SAX will not tell us if properties etc. are wrong only checks well formedness 14:17:11 ... need a CSS validator 14:17:27 s/SAX/SAC 14:18:18 Sean: agree - we will need to augment what SAC does - whoever needs this first should do it and post to list 14:18:33 q+ 14:18:54 jo: should not use W3C validator for XHTML 14:18:59 Sean: OK 14:19:53 jo: can you post current sample for Result format so I can work from that 14:19:57 Sean: yes 14:20:09 ack j 14:20:45 jo: should we do validators in a JHOVE compaitble format? 14:20:54 sean: dunno if necessary 14:22:02 ... framework looks OK and better than no starting point at all for stuff that exists in JHOVE but no point in that for CSS etc. 14:22:21 .... I'll be checking in code and proposing changes on mailing list 14:22:43 q+ 14:22:43 ... a lot of stuff will have to change - so discuss on list 14:22:59 ack abel 14:24:16 nacho: shouldn't we stabilise the moki format before doing other things? e.g. errors are important and need to be defined - plus their relationship with library errors 14:24:49 ... we should try to define in a way that is as transparent as possible a way so it can work with each of the various libraries 14:25:09 ... try to define which parts are stable and which are still to be discussed 14:25:32 jo: yes, I agree, but don't have time for a week and a half 14:26:02 sean: think it will be hard to do the document before doing the code - so it will need to be iterative 14:26:40 ... suggest that we discuss changes on the list 14:27:02 q+ 14:27:08 roland has joined #bpwg 14:27:30 ... think error messages can't be presented directly from underlying library 14:28:11 jo: should we have a Wiki to record error messages as we come across them during development 14:28:40 nacho: I think we should know which bits are more stable and which more dangerous in the moki format 14:28:41 q+ 14:28:48 ack a 14:29:06 ... e.g. the error handling needs to be very carefully considered 14:29:24 ... it's tricky we should worry about it 14:30:43 jo: think that the rror handling should be an error reference plus text 14:31:01 nacho: we can make a proposal 14:31:27 sean: changes to the document will only come about as a result of requests and proposals for changes 14:32:06 ... errors should not be library specific errors, think I do see value for a reference/wiki for errors 14:32:24 ... think it will be hard to do it comprehesnively 14:32:34 ... do we need to do this? 14:32:47 jo: think it would be useful to do this 14:33:05 nacho: need to make sure we catch all errors thrown by the libraries 14:33:50 ... need to define a genenral strategy / mapping for library errors to moki 14:34:09 s/genenral/genenral/ 14:34:28 s/genenral/general/ 14:34:53 ... we need to wrap some errors one way and some another - needs to be made library independent 14:35:19 sean: yes think so - is there a general strategy for this 14:35:33 ... but think that jo wants to standardise all errors and warnings 14:35:49 ... how we catch them is a different question 14:36:54 jo: yes, don't know how we can avoid this as we need to correlate checker behaviour with test cases and know that the checker is throwing the right error in the right circumstances 14:37:42 sean: so everything needs some kind of ID e.g. CACHING-WARNING-39 14:37:48 ... do we need a WIKI for this 14:38:37 jo: think there needs to be some level of sharing, plus needs to be used for user documentation 14:39:17 ... at this stage perhaps its OK if we just each know where each others errors etc are 14:39:43 sean: how about I create a property file and circulate examples 14:39:55 ... to centralise error handling 14:40:46 ... suggest we adopt Jo's idea and standardise and centralise e.g. CACHING-FAIL-150 and I will take an action to do this if everyone agrees .. 14:40:50 +1 to sean 14:40:57 matt has joined #bpwg 14:40:59 +1 14:41:03 +1 14:41:22 ACTION Sean to create property file for error handling and demostrate its use 14:41:47 Topic: F2F Location etc. 14:42:03 Sean: June 12 and 13 in London at Google Offices 14:42:29 ... similar format to Dublin F2F - resolve issues leading to Milestone 2 - 75% implementation 14:42:44 ... then we can work on the final release for mod-September 14:43:20 ... office is near Victoria station, everything is set up, delicious lunch, comoftable chairs etc.! 14:43:41 ... 8 people seem to be coming so far: 14:44:33 ... Sean, Jo, Ruadhan, Nacho, Miguel, Abel, Roland 14:44:55 ... need to confirm Dom, maybe Kai and the mobileOK Pros 14:45:33 s/comoftable/comfortable/ 14:45:45 Topic: MOKI Document 14:45:55 Sean: any thoughts on this? 14:46:45 jo: apologies for not doing work on this but I am stuck in mobileOK doc 14:47:29 sean: abel mentioned that he didn't think we should talk about validity in a declarative way 14:48:15 abel: do we need to talk about CSS in XML, maybe we don't need this any more now that SCROLLING is gone 14:48:37 sean: SAC produces output in a structured form so that may be enough 14:49:21 jo: if there is a trivial way of expressing CSS in XML then it would be useful to do this 14:49:38 sean: must be a standard way of doing this 14:50:02 jo: yeah, but haven't found it 14:50:29 ACTION sean will find out or invent the canonical representation of CSS in XML 14:50:49 q? 14:50:54 ac sro 14:51:09 Topic: AOB 14:52:19 ACTION Sean to post current example results format to list 14:52:56 Sean: everyone to continue to work on code and raise questions on list, make sure to check code in on CSS and on list 14:53:09 ACTION Sean to check with Dom about the call next week 14:53:35 jo: can't make it next week - can't make it alternate weeks on Tuesday pm 14:54:04 -Sean_Owen 14:54:05 -Ruadhan 14:54:12 Present: Sean, Nacho, Miguel, Abel, Roland, Ruadhan, Roland 14:54:13 -Roland 14:54:16 -abel 14:54:19 -jo 14:54:21 Team_(bpwg)14:02Z has ended 14:54:22 Attendees were Sean_Owen, abel, +0208995aaaa, jo, nacho, miguel, +049221650aabb, Roland, +01854aacc, Ruadhan 14:54:36 rrsagent, draft minutes 14:54:36 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/05/08-bpwg-minutes.html jo 14:54:58 rrsagent, make logs member 14:55:08 rrsagent, draft minutes 14:55:08 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/05/08-bpwg-minutes.html jo 14:57:03 s/ACTION/ACTION:/g 14:57:11 rrsagent, draft minutes 14:57:11 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/05/08-bpwg-minutes.html jo 14:57:53 rrsagent, make logs public 14:59:07 rrsagent, draft minutes 14:59:07 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/05/08-bpwg-minutes.html jo 15:05:04 jo has left #bpwg 15:05:22 roland has left #bpwg 15:38:28 MikeSmith has joined #bpwg 16:12:33 jo has joined #bpwg 16:13:51 Mike, ref your email I can't see WWW/2005/MWI/BPWG/Group/Overview.html - perhaps my jigedit account needs updating? 16:15:38 jo - Hi. Let me ask one of the W3C system team guys and find out 16:21:04 jo has left #bpwg 17:11:59 Zakim has left #bpwg 19:25:09 MikeSmith has joined #bpwg 19:36:29 matt has joined #bpwg 19:50:41 srowen has left #bpwg