12:21:14 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #eo
12:21:14 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2007/04/20-eo-irc
12:21:19 <shawn> zakim, this will be eowg
12:21:19 <Zakim> ok, shawn; I see WAI_EOWG()8:30AM scheduled to start in 9 minutes
12:21:27 <shawn> chair: Judy
12:21:35 <shawn> meeting: WAI EOWG
12:21:44 <shadi> shadi has joined #eo
12:22:16 <shawn> agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-eo/2007AprJun/0013.html
12:22:41 <Henny> Henny has joined #eo
12:22:47 <shadi> ok, thanks shawn
12:22:53 <shawn> scribe: shadi
12:23:24 <Jack> Jack has joined #eo
12:26:46 <Zakim> WAI_EOWG()8:30AM has now started
12:26:53 <Zakim> +doyle
12:27:46 <Zakim> +Judy
12:28:57 <shadi> zakim, code?
12:28:57 <Zakim> the conference code is 3694 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), shadi
12:29:10 <shawn> Regrets: Helle
12:29:29 <Zakim> +Jack
12:30:01 <Zakim> +Andrew_Arch
12:30:33 <Zakim> +Shawn
12:30:43 <Zakim> +Shadi
12:30:47 <Sylvie> Sylvie has joined #eo
12:31:06 <shadi> agenda?
12:31:30 <judy> judy has joined #eo
12:31:34 <Zakim> +Loughborough
12:32:21 <Sylvie> hello all I will try to connect to EOWG bridge with another phone number and another phone service so don't be surprised if it does not work properly.
12:32:23 <Zakim> +Henny_Swan
12:33:22 <judy> zakim, who's here?
12:33:22 <Zakim> On the phone I see doyle, Judy, Jack, Andrew_Arch, Shawn, Shadi (muted), Loughborough, Henny_Swan
12:33:24 <Zakim> On IRC I see judy, Sylvie, Jack, Henny, shadi, RRSAgent, Zakim, shawn, Andrew
12:34:01 <shadi> shadi has changed the topic to: agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-eo/2007AprJun/0013.html
12:34:54 <Zakim> +??P8
12:35:18 <shadi> Topic: WCAG 2.0 Conformance section, Editor's Draft
12:35:27 <shadi> http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/WCAG20/#conformance
12:35:41 <Alan> Alan has joined #eo
12:35:42 <shadi> zakim, ??p8 is really Sylvie
12:35:42 <Zakim> +Sylvie; got it
12:35:43 <Andrew> zakim, ??P8 is Sylvie
12:35:44 <Zakim> I already had ??P8 as Sylvie, Andrew
12:36:35 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
12:37:13 <shadi> jb: first editorial pass of the guidelines from the WCAG WG
12:37:42 <Zakim> +Pat_Case
12:37:57 <shadi> jb: Shawn and Judy have been coordinating with WCAG WG on how to make things even clearer
12:37:58 <shawn> zakim, Pat_Case is Justin 
12:37:58 <Zakim> +Justin; got it
12:38:34 <shadi> jb: for example, would it be possible to take out some of the content from the conformance section?
12:38:55 <shadi> ...to keep it brief and less complex to read
12:39:29 <shadi> jb: want to compare the conformance section to other W3C publications
12:40:01 <shadi> jb: after people have read the conformance section, how much do they understand?
12:41:01 <shadi> hs: after reading, wasn't really sure understood what it exactly meant
12:41:01 <Harvey> Harvey has joined #eo
12:41:15 <shadi> ...would be good t provide a summary and reduce complexity
12:41:26 <shadi> aa: generally understood it
12:41:52 <shadi> jb: would you be able to describe it to somebody?
12:41:57 <shadi> jw: not really
12:42:07 <shadi> aa: probably yes
12:42:15 <shadi> jb: how would you describe it?
12:43:18 <Zakim> +Bingham
12:43:27 <Zakim> -Bingham
12:43:30 <shadi> wl: conformance means meeting the success criteria
12:43:46 <shadi> aa: there may be alternatives
12:44:01 <Zakim> +Bingham
12:44:16 <judy> [you do need to conform to the success criteria; you don't need to conform to the techniques; and there may be other ways that you can conform, too.]
12:45:58 <shadi> hs: looks clear
12:46:32 <shadi> q+ to remove the ", too"
12:47:16 <Alan> q+
12:47:58 <shadi> jt: kind of understood how to do exceptions to the techniques, but sounds difficult and wouldn't want to do it
12:48:25 <shadi> as: not sure if it is easily readable by non-native speakers
12:48:27 <shadi> q-
12:48:32 <shadi> ack alan
12:49:24 <shadi> as: would describe conformance model as different technologies are supported, different ways to reach conformance
12:49:36 <shadi> as: wondering why baseline is not mentioned?
12:49:44 <shadi> slh: has been removed
12:50:39 <Mark> Mark has joined #eo
12:51:10 <shadi> jt: <missed questions>
12:51:30 <shadi> slh: have additional external materials to explain the specifics
12:52:23 <shadi> jb: when people are looking at what's normative vs what's external, what do people feel?
12:52:35 <shadi> as: user agents
12:53:32 <shadi> aa: additional information should suggest alternatives
12:53:40 <shadi> jb: advisory techniques
12:54:43 <shadi> wl: for each success criteria there are techniques, but that's not a normative definition of conformance
12:55:18 <shadi> slh: approach is to just have the basic normative information in this document
12:55:32 <shadi> ...the other document has examples and additional information
12:55:46 <shadi> ...maybe even different sections to address different audience
12:56:38 <shadi> jb: some W3C publications split up different parts of the documents into different chunks
12:56:52 <shawn> q+ to ask (later when other topics are done) about "Accessibility-supported Content Technologies (AsCT)"
12:57:08 <shadi> ...for example a condensed part of the normative section, then additional information
12:57:47 <shadi> jb: Justin asked who the audience is, let's talk about that
12:58:26 <shadi> ...what are the audiences for "conformance" -who and how will they use it
12:58:38 <shadi> wl: people who will write about the guidelines
12:59:10 <shadi> ack shawn
12:59:10 <Zakim> shawn, you wanted to ask (later when other topics are done) about "Accessibility-supported Content Technologies (AsCT)"
12:59:31 <shadi> slh: web developer who wants to claim conformance
12:59:51 <shadi> slh: policy maker who wants to decide conformance level
13:00:35 <shadi> slh: users (particularly people with disabilities) who want to know what a conformance statement means
13:01:04 <shawn> q+ to ask (later when other topics are done) about "Accessibility-supported Content Technologies (AsCT)"
13:02:41 <shadi> jb: would it help to add a brief summary up-front?
13:04:02 <shadi> wl: seems like there was a scope-creep, the section grew
13:04:33 <shadi> jb: what about examples?
13:04:41 <shadi> ds: wouldn't help
13:04:57 <shadi> jt: depends on the audience
13:05:23 <Mark> The challenge for cpolicymakers is how to EASILY figure out the conformance level that's right for a given piece of content, and how to operationlize that.  Since a conformance statement means sticking your neck out to say "this is accessible", many people want to stick their neck out only as far as it needs to go.  that's at least one audience
13:05:30 <Zakim> -doyle
13:05:54 <shadi> jb: doesn't have to be necessarily within the same document
13:06:05 <shawn> zakim, who is here?
13:06:05 <Zakim> On the phone I see Judy, Jack, Andrew_Arch, Shawn, Shadi (muted), Loughborough, Henny_Swan, Sylvie (muted), Alan, Justin, Bingham
13:06:07 <Zakim> On IRC I see Mark, Harvey, Alan, judy, Sylvie, Henny, shadi, RRSAgent, Zakim, shawn, Andrew
13:06:32 <Zakim> +??P0
13:06:47 <shadi> zakim, ??p0 is really doyle
13:06:47 <Zakim> +doyle; got it
13:08:05 <Mark> * sorry
13:08:09 <shawn> s/The challenge for cpolicymakers is how to EASILY figure out the conformance level that's right for a given piece of content, and how to operationlize that.  Since a conformance statement means sticking your neck out to say "this is accessible", many people want to stick their neck out only as far as it needs to go.  that's at least one audience/
13:08:35 <Jack> Jack has joined #eo
13:12:43 <shadi> as: potential confusion with respect to conformance levels and techniques
13:14:23 <shawn> q- Judy
14:32:08 <Henny_> Henny_ has joined #eo
14:32:12 <shadi> aa: belongs in understanding document
14:32:29 <shadi> ds: think it is helpful information
14:33:08 <shadi> slh: should be clear in all other supporting documents, not necessarily here
14:34:13 <shawn> s/what do people think of "partial conformance"/what do people think of "partial conformance"? Content that conforms to WCAG 1.0
14:34:19 <shadi> jb: thanks for the discussion, and especially the written comments in advance
14:35:02 <shadi> jb: probably no meeting next week, likely no updated material
14:36:25 <judy> for april 27th:
14:36:43 <Andrew> andrew: prefer no meeting due to other weekend activities
14:36:50 <Zakim> -Justin
14:36:56 <Zakim> -doyle
14:36:57 <Zakim> -Loughborough
14:36:58 <Zakim> -Judy
14:37:00 <Zakim> -Sylvie
14:37:13 <Zakim> -Shadi
14:37:27 <Zakim> -Andrew_Arch
14:37:39 <Zakim> -Jack
14:37:47 <Zakim> -Shawn
14:37:49 <Zakim> WAI_EOWG()8:30AM has ended
14:37:50 <Zakim> Attendees were doyle, Judy, Jack, Andrew_Arch, Shawn, Shadi, Loughborough, Henny_Swan, Sylvie, Alan, Justin, Bingham
14:38:12 <shadi> zakim, bye
14:38:12 <Zakim> Zakim has left #eo
14:38:21 <shadi> rrsagent, make logs world
14:38:25 <shadi> rrsagent, make minutes
14:38:25 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/04/20-eo-minutes.html shadi
14:38:27 <shadi> rrsagent, make logs world
14:54:08 <shawn> shawn has left #eo