IRC log of rdfa on 2007-04-16

Timestamps are in UTC.

12:56:15 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #rdfa
12:56:15 [RRSAgent]
logging to http://www.w3.org/2007/04/16-rdfa-irc
12:56:21 [Zakim]
Zakim has joined #rdfa
12:56:27 [mhausenblas]
zakim, this will be SW_SWD(RDFa)
12:56:27 [Zakim]
ok, mhausenblas; I see SW_SWD(RDFa)9:00AM scheduled to start in 4 minutes
12:56:42 [Zakim]
SW_SWD(RDFa)9:00AM has now started
12:56:49 [Zakim]
+??P2
12:57:14 [Zakim]
+mhausenblas
12:57:17 [Zakim]
-??P2
12:57:32 [Zakim]
+[IPcaller]
12:57:33 [Zakim]
-[IPcaller]
12:57:34 [Zakim]
+[IPcaller]
12:57:48 [ShaneM]
zakim, [IPca is ShaneM
12:57:48 [Zakim]
+ShaneM; got it
12:58:36 [TomB]
TomB has joined #rdfa
12:58:40 [ShaneM]
zakim, mute me
12:58:40 [Zakim]
ShaneM should now be muted
12:58:51 [mhausenblas]
Meeting: W3C RDF-in-XHTML TF - Telecon 2007-04-16, 13:00 UTC
12:59:08 [mhausenblas]
Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2007Apr/0064.html
12:59:24 [mhausenblas]
zakim, who is here?
12:59:24 [Zakim]
On the phone I see mhausenblas, ShaneM (muted)
12:59:25 [Zakim]
On IRC I see TomB, Zakim, RRSAgent, FabienG, ShaneM, mhausenblas, markbirbeck_
12:59:34 [Zakim]
+FabienG
13:00:02 [Steven]
Steven has joined #rdfa
13:00:13 [Steven]
zakim, dial steven-617
13:00:13 [Zakim]
ok, Steven; the call is being made
13:00:14 [Zakim]
+Steven
13:01:22 [Simone]
Simone has joined #rdfa
13:01:34 [benadida]
benadida has joined #rdfa
13:01:40 [Steven]
zakim, who is here?
13:01:40 [Zakim]
On the phone I see mhausenblas, ShaneM (muted), FabienG, Steven
13:01:41 [Zakim]
On IRC I see benadida, Simone, Steven, TomB, Zakim, RRSAgent, FabienG, ShaneM, mhausenblas, markbirbeck_
13:01:53 [Zakim]
+Ben_Adida
13:02:07 [mhausenblas]
Present: Tom_Baker, Fabien_Gandon, Shane_McCarron, Ben_Adida
13:02:21 [mhausenblas]
present+ Simone
13:02:36 [Steven]
hi mark
13:02:39 [Zakim]
+??P0
13:02:44 [Simone]
Zakim, P0 is me
13:02:44 [Zakim]
sorry, Simone, I do not recognize a party named 'P0'
13:03:02 [mhausenblas]
zakim, ??P0 is simone
13:03:02 [Zakim]
+simone; got it
13:03:04 [Simone]
Zakim ??P0 is me
13:03:08 [benadida]
zakim, pick a victim
13:03:08 [Zakim]
Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose ShaneM (muted)
13:03:17 [Steven]
zakim, who is noisy?
13:03:17 [ShaneM]
zakim, unmute me
13:03:17 [Zakim]
ShaneM should no longer be muted
13:03:27 [Zakim]
Steven, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: simone (94%), ??P2 (39%), ShaneM (69%), Ben_Adida (5%)
13:03:38 [Simone]
Zakim, Mute me
13:03:38 [Zakim]
simone should now be muted
13:03:40 [Steven]
zakim, mute ??p2
13:03:40 [Zakim]
sorry, Steven, I do not know which phone connection belongs to ??p2
13:04:02 [Steven]
zakim, who is noisy?
13:04:14 [Zakim]
Steven, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: ??P2 (79%), ShaneM (5%), Ben_Adida (31%)
13:04:22 [Steven]
zakim, mute ??P2
13:04:22 [Zakim]
sorry, Steven, I do not know which phone connection belongs to ??P2
13:04:33 [ShaneM]
zakim, mute me
13:04:33 [Zakim]
ShaneM should now be muted
13:04:38 [Steven]
zakim, mute p2
13:04:38 [Zakim]
sorry, Steven, I do not know which phone connection belongs to p2
13:04:42 [TomB]
zakim, please mute me
13:04:42 [Zakim]
sorry, TomB, I do not know which phone connection belongs to you
13:04:55 [Steven]
zakim, who is here?
13:04:55 [Zakim]
On the phone I see mhausenblas, ShaneM (muted), FabienG, Steven, Ben_Adida, simone (muted)
13:04:57 [Zakim]
On IRC I see benadida, Simone, Steven, TomB, Zakim, RRSAgent, FabienG, ShaneM, mhausenblas, markbirbeck_
13:05:12 [Steven]
zakim, who is noisy?
13:05:22 [Zakim]
Steven, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: ??P2 (61%), Ben_Adida (38%)
13:06:30 [mhausenblas]
ScribeNick: mhausenblas
13:06:35 [mhausenblas]
Chair: Ben
13:06:56 [mhausenblas]
Regrets: Mark, Ralph
13:07:08 [mhausenblas]
RRSAgent, draft minutes
13:07:08 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/04/16-rdfa-minutes.html mhausenblas
13:07:14 [mhausenblas]
RRSAgent, make logs public
13:07:42 [mhausenblas]
Ben: Any additions to the agenda?
13:07:44 [mhausenblas]
No
13:07:54 [mhausenblas]
Topic: 1. Action Items
13:08:00 [mhausenblas]
[NEW] ACTION: Ben to update issues list [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/04/11-rdfa-minutes.html#action13]
13:08:04 [mhausenblas]
-- done
13:08:21 [mhausenblas]
[NEW] ACTION: Michael to update Fabian's XSLT [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/04/11-rdfa-minutes.html#action12]
13:08:31 [mhausenblas]
-- done
13:08:45 [mhausenblas]
Fabien has actually done the work !
13:08:55 [mhausenblas]
[PENDING] ACTION: Ben start a list of RDF/XML features that are not supported by RDFa [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/01/23-swd-minutes.html#action01]
13:08:58 [mhausenblas]
-- continues
13:09:10 [mhausenblas]
[PENDING] ACTION: Ben to add issue to issues list and start discussion with previous reference and issue reference [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/04/02-rdfa-minutes.html#action12]
13:09:17 [mhausenblas]
-- done
13:09:24 [mhausenblas]
[PENDING] ACTION: Ben to look into Science Commons use case [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/12/11-htmltf-minutes.html#action04]
13:09:27 [mhausenblas]
-- continues
13:09:37 [mhausenblas]
[PENDING] ACTION: Ben to take a look at http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2006Jun/0001.html to see if issue has been resolved [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/03/12-rdfa-minutes.html#action17]
13:09:43 [mhausenblas]
-- continues
13:10:24 [mhausenblas]
regrets+ Wing
13:11:16 [mhausenblas]
[PENDING] ACTION: Elias to look for cases where plain literal is more of a common use. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/03/19-rdfa-minutes.html#action24]
13:11:25 [mhausenblas]
-- withdraw
13:11:37 [mhausenblas]
[PENDING] ACTION: Elias to send email to list with use case from IBM [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/12/04-htmltf-minutes.html#action10]
13:11:40 [mhausenblas]
-- continues
13:11:46 [mhausenblas]
[PENDING] ACTION: Mark produce more examples of applicability of n-ary relations from IPTC documents [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/10/23-htmltf-minutes.html#action08]
13:11:50 [mhausenblas]
-- continues
13:11:57 [mhausenblas]
[PENDING] ACTION: MarkB to work rdf:label back into RDFa syntax when using @content [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/03/19-rdfa-minutes.html#action25]
13:12:00 [mhausenblas]
-- continues
13:12:12 [mhausenblas]
[PENDING] ACTION: Steven to put together sample XHTML2 doc with all mime type, etc. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/09/19-htmltf-minutes.html#action01]
13:12:15 [mhausenblas]
-- continues
13:12:49 [mhausenblas]
[PENDING] ACTION: Wing add a property to the test case schema for tracking origin and approval of an individual test [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/03/05-rdfa-minutes.html#action11]
13:12:55 [mhausenblas]
-- continues
13:13:04 [mhausenblas]
Topic: 2. Test Cases
13:13:16 [Steven]
scribe: Steven
13:13:18 [mhausenblas]
-> http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/RDFa/testsuite/testcases/ TC
13:13:26 [Steven]
mh: THis is the test case index
13:13:30 [Steven]
s/TH/Th/
13:13:50 [Steven]
... we are using SPARQL as reference
13:14:09 [Steven]
... tests cover new tests like the one introduced by Fabien
13:14:24 [Steven]
... there are some tests still pending from the primer, mailing lists, etc
13:14:32 [Zakim]
+??P5
13:14:48 [Steven]
zakim, ??P5 is TomB
13:14:49 [Zakim]
I already had ??P5 as TomB, Steven
13:14:54 [Steven]
:-)
13:15:03 [Steven]
mh: How do we plan to approve them?
13:15:08 [ShaneM]
zakim, unmute me
13:15:08 [Zakim]
ShaneM should no longer be muted
13:15:27 [Steven]
Ben: We should all approve all the tests, so we have a record that these are a[pproved test cases
13:15:36 [Steven]
Ben: Have people looked at them all?
13:15:39 [Steven]
q+
13:15:48 [Steven]
Ben: I'd like to approve a few of them
13:15:57 [Steven]
... and slowly catch up
13:17:01 [Steven]
Steven: I've never heard of groups agreeing test cases before.
13:17:14 [Steven]
... Usually problems occur and then issues get discussed
13:17:39 [ShaneM]
q+
13:17:41 [mhausenblas]
-> http://www.w3.org/TR/grddl-tests/ GRDDL test
13:17:46 [Steven]
mh: THe GRDDLE test cases were approved individually
13:17:50 [Steven]
s/TH/Th/
13:17:55 [Steven]
s/LE/L/
13:18:01 [Steven]
q-
13:18:34 [Steven]
Steven: Schema has O(10000) tests
13:18:45 [mhausenblas]
q+
13:19:09 [Steven]
Fabien: For GRDDL, sets of tests were approved after running through implementations
13:19:33 [Steven]
Shane: The tests are expressed as XHTML 1.1, which is fine, but they are not legal XHTML 1.1
13:19:38 [Steven]
Ben: Good point6
13:19:51 [Steven]
s/6//
13:19:59 [Steven]
q+
13:20:05 [Steven]
ack shaneM
13:20:07 [ShaneM]
q-
13:20:09 [mhausenblas]
ack me
13:20:33 [Steven]
mh: Let's do the approval based on the partitioning
13:20:40 [Steven]
... across languages
13:21:46 [mhausenblas]
-> http://www.w3.org/2005/08/online_xslt/xslt?xslfile=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.w3.org%2F2006%2F07%2FSWD%2FRDFa%2Ftestsuite%2Fwork%2Fmanifest2html.xslt&xmlfile=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.w3.org%2F2006%2F07%2FSWD%2FRDFa%2Ftestsuite%2Ftestcases%2Frdfa-test-manifest.rdf&content-type=&submit=transform Human readable form TC
13:21:54 [Steven]
Steven: I think Shane was suuggesting using the XHTML+RDFa DTD
13:22:00 [Steven]
... and make sure the fiules are valid
13:22:05 [Steven]
s/iu/i/
13:22:25 [ShaneM]
Yes, and in the context of HTML 4 perhaps use the sample HTML 4 DTD I put together
13:22:27 [Steven]
mh: We are working on the partitioning, so let's wait till next week
13:22:51 [Steven]
Ben: Go ahead with the partitioning, then freeze them, and email the current implementors
13:23:18 [Steven]
... (me, Fabien, Elias), and then let them test, and send any problems
13:23:28 [Steven]
... and use that as basis for the approval
13:23:58 [benadida]
ACTION: MichaelH to do partitioning of TCs, freeze the XHTML1.1+RDFa, and invite implementors to comment.
13:24:13 [Steven]
(Above URL doesn't work in all browsers apparently)
13:25:15 [mhausenblas]
Topic: 3. Schedule
13:25:18 [Steven]
Scribe: Michael
13:25:28 [Steven]
scribenick: mhausenblas
13:25:38 [mhausenblas]
-> http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/wiki/RDFa#RDFa_schedule Schedule
13:25:46 [mhausenblas]
Ben: Moving to west cost
13:26:15 [mhausenblas]
... will update the TF about new meeting scheduling (poll)
13:26:20 [Steven]
Steven: regrets for the 30th April
13:26:33 [mhausenblas]
.. next week call as usual, week after not here
13:26:47 [Steven]
... Queen's Day (if you know what that means, then you know what that means....)
13:27:03 [mhausenblas]
Ben: We are making progress
13:27:17 [mhausenblas]
... but still behind
13:27:46 [Steven]
http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/wiki/RDFa#RDFa_schedule
13:28:05 [mhausenblas]
Ben: We got comments on UC from Fabien
13:29:03 [mhausenblas]
... rec-track: need last call for all documents?
13:29:23 [Steven]
q+
13:29:30 [mhausenblas]
Fabien: In GRDDL, for Primer we made LC
13:29:54 [FabienG]
q++
13:29:57 [FabienG]
q+
13:30:24 [mhausenblas]
Steven: For normative stuff as Syntax absolutely necessary
13:30:44 [mhausenblas]
... but no rec track for non-normative things
13:31:08 [mhausenblas]
Fabien: In GRDDL we had a vote on the according docs
13:31:48 [mhausenblas]
q+
13:31:59 [benadida]
ack Steven
13:32:00 [benadida]
ack +
13:32:03 [benadida]
ack FabienG
13:32:58 [Steven]
What do we see as the advantage of rec track on a primer??
13:33:35 [mhausenblas]
Michael: Let us go for rec track only with syntax, rest if time allows
13:33:51 [ShaneM]
Does the primer have a short name already?
13:33:55 [benadida]
ACTION: Ben to discuss Primer and Use Cases as Note, Syntax and Test Cases as REC, at SWD WG meeting
13:34:16 [benadida]
http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml-rdfa-primer/
13:35:22 [mhausenblas]
Michael: Please add -> http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/RDFa/ RDFa Overview
13:35:47 [benadida]
ACTION: Ben to discuss RDFa Overview as a note
13:36:29 [mhausenblas]
Ben: Will discuss these issues with the SWD on tomorrow's call
13:37:25 [mhausenblas]
... happy that Steven is also on Syntax
13:37:46 [FabienG]
Pointer to the pubrule checker for the note : http://www.w3.org/2005/07/pubrules?uimode=checker_full&uri=
13:38:09 [benadida]
ACTION: Ben to hand over rdfa syntax baton to Steven on 4/23
13:38:47 [mhausenblas]
Ben: Present the Syntax doc as a WD to SWD WG
13:40:20 [mhausenblas]
Ben: Approval of first set of TC by next telecon
13:40:24 [mhausenblas]
Michael: Ok
13:41:29 [mhausenblas]
Ben: Michael, push the TC!
13:43:32 [mhausenblas]
Ben: Schedule Primer and UC on May 28
13:44:04 [ShaneM]
I can review Primer and Use Cases.
13:44:55 [mhausenblas]
Ben: I'm currently updating the Wiki to reflect the new assignments
13:45:02 [benadida]
ACTION: Ben to flesh out the schedule and present for everyone's approval next week.
13:48:17 [benadida]
ACTION: Ben to email list about next week's vote on a resolution regarding CLASS and ROLE attributes and rdf:type.
13:48:59 [mhausenblas]
Michael: Please note that -> http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/track/issues/3 role/class issue has been updated
13:51:09 [mhausenblas]
Topic: 4. SRC attribute discussion
13:51:28 [mhausenblas]
postponed
13:51:34 [mhausenblas]
Topic: 5. MIME type for XHTML1.1+RDFa and resulting IE issues
13:52:11 [mhausenblas]
Shane: XHTML+XML is the media type, but this does not deliver correctly
13:52:23 [mhausenblas]
... no resolution, yet
13:52:42 [mhausenblas]
... I'm ope to ideas
13:53:08 [mhausenblas]
Ben: So, it wouldn't validate?
13:53:28 [mhausenblas]
Shane: No, does not effect validation
13:53:56 [mhausenblas]
... but has effect on prefix declaration
13:54:19 [mhausenblas]
Ben: So, the validator does not accept the xmlns prefixes
13:54:34 [mhausenblas]
ack me
13:55:03 [mhausenblas]
Steven: Depends on SGML or XML
13:55:16 [mhausenblas]
... XML should accept it
13:55:37 [mhausenblas]
... so the validator should not complain
13:56:06 [mhausenblas]
... currently: SGML/DTD validation
13:56:45 [mhausenblas]
Shane: There is no XHTML 1.1 XSD, but an XML-DTD
13:58:52 [mhausenblas]
-> http://www.w3.org/QA/2007/04/validator_080_upgrade_notes.html Validator upgrade notes
13:59:31 [mhausenblas]
Steven: The update is in the pipeline
13:59:53 [mhausenblas]
... XHTML M15N comes out, then schema follows
14:00:09 [mhausenblas]
RRSAgent, draft minutes
14:00:09 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/04/16-rdfa-minutes.html mhausenblas
14:00:54 [benadida]
ACTION: Ben to ask W3C about XML-DTD validation
14:01:00 [Steven]
s/M15N/M12N/
14:01:16 [mhausenblas]
present+ Steven_Pemberton
14:01:23 [mhausenblas]
present+ Michael_Hausenblas
14:04:12 [mhausenblas]
Steven: Two issues, validator and processors (user agents)
14:04:25 [ShaneM]
The Media Type is an announcement mechanism that tells a user agent what processing engine to use, in theory.
14:04:44 [ShaneM]
XHTML 1.1 mandates the use of application/xhtml+xml - which IE does not grok
14:06:49 [mhausenblas]
Ben: We have to sort out things and figure out the problems
14:07:24 [mhausenblas]
Steven: There are some tricks to convince IE to do it right
14:07:41 [mhausenblas]
Ben: Should we actually recommend a specific way?
14:08:00 [ShaneM]
the media type associated with documents annotated with RDFa should be the media type of the host document.
14:08:14 [ShaneM]
s/host document/host language/
14:08:18 [mhausenblas]
+1
14:08:54 [benadida]
RESOLUTION: the media type associated with documents annotated with RDFa should be the media type of the host language.
14:08:58 [benadida]
to be voted on next week
14:09:14 [benadida]
ACTION: Ben to email the resolution on mime type to the mailing list
14:09:26 [mhausenblas]
RRSAgent, draft minutes
14:09:26 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/04/16-rdfa-minutes.html mhausenblas
14:09:36 [mhausenblas]
Ben: Any AOB?
14:09:50 [mhausenblas]
... beside @src
14:10:03 [mhausenblas]
... will be done next week
14:10:07 [Zakim]
-ShaneM
14:10:09 [Zakim]
-Steven
14:10:11 [Simone]
bye!
14:10:12 [Zakim]
-mhausenblas
14:10:13 [Zakim]
-Ben_Adida
14:10:18 [Zakim]
-FabienG
14:10:20 [ShaneM]
ShaneM has left #rdfa
14:10:22 [Zakim]
-TomB
14:10:24 [Zakim]
-simone
14:10:25 [Zakim]
SW_SWD(RDFa)9:00AM has ended
14:10:27 [Zakim]
Attendees were mhausenblas, [IPcaller], ShaneM, FabienG, Steven, Ben_Adida, simone, TomB
14:10:39 [Simone]
Simone has left #rdfa
14:11:54 [benadida]
benadida has left #rdfa
14:12:26 [Steven]
rrsagent, make minutes
14:12:26 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/04/16-rdfa-minutes.html Steven
14:13:44 [Steven]
I don't I'm afraid
14:13:49 [Steven]
Can't we infer who it was?
14:13:52 [mhausenblas]
hm
14:13:54 [mhausenblas]
no
14:14:12 [mhausenblas]
also not from IRC, i think
14:15:44 [Steven]
sometimes zakim reports the person's name and the connection name
14:16:15 [mhausenblas]
ok. thanks. anyway, I'll go over the minutes and send it to ralpH ...
14:16:20 [mhausenblas]
cheers, bye!
14:16:22 [Steven]
k
14:16:23 [Steven]
thanks
14:16:24 [Steven]
bye
15:34:47 [ShaneM]
ShaneM has joined #rdfa
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Zakim has left #rdfa