IRC log of rdfa on 2007-04-16

Timestamps are in UTC.

12:56:15 [RRSAgent]

RRSAgent has joined #rdfa

12:56:15 [RRSAgent]

logging to http://www.w3.org/2007/04/16-rdfa-irc

12:56:21 [Zakim]

Zakim has joined #rdfa

12:56:27 [mhausenblas]

zakim, this will be SW_SWD(RDFa)

12:56:27 [Zakim]

ok, mhausenblas; I see SW_SWD(RDFa)9:00AM scheduled to start in 4 minutes

12:56:42 [Zakim]

SW_SWD(RDFa)9:00AM has now started

12:56:49 [Zakim]

+??P2

12:57:14 [Zakim]

+mhausenblas

12:57:17 [Zakim]

-??P2

12:57:32 [Zakim]

+[IPcaller]

12:57:33 [Zakim]

-[IPcaller]

12:57:34 [Zakim]

+[IPcaller]

12:57:48 [ShaneM]

zakim, [IPca is ShaneM

12:57:48 [Zakim]

+ShaneM; got it

12:58:36 [TomB]

TomB has joined #rdfa

12:58:40 [ShaneM]

zakim, mute me

12:58:40 [Zakim]

ShaneM should now be muted

12:58:51 [mhausenblas]

Meeting: W3C RDF-in-XHTML TF - Telecon 2007-04-16, 13:00 UTC

12:59:08 [mhausenblas]

Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2007Apr/0064.html

12:59:24 [mhausenblas]

zakim, who is here?

12:59:24 [Zakim]

On the phone I see mhausenblas, ShaneM (muted)

12:59:25 [Zakim]

On IRC I see TomB, Zakim, RRSAgent, FabienG, ShaneM, mhausenblas, markbirbeck_

12:59:34 [Zakim]

+FabienG

13:00:02 [Steven]

Steven has joined #rdfa

13:00:13 [Steven]

zakim, dial steven-617

13:00:13 [Zakim]

ok, Steven; the call is being made

13:00:14 [Zakim]

+Steven

13:01:22 [Simone]

Simone has joined #rdfa

13:01:34 [benadida]

benadida has joined #rdfa

13:01:40 [Steven]

zakim, who is here?

13:01:40 [Zakim]

On the phone I see mhausenblas, ShaneM (muted), FabienG, Steven

13:01:41 [Zakim]

On IRC I see benadida, Simone, Steven, TomB, Zakim, RRSAgent, FabienG, ShaneM, mhausenblas, markbirbeck_

13:01:53 [Zakim]

+Ben_Adida

13:02:07 [mhausenblas]

Present: Tom_Baker, Fabien_Gandon, Shane_McCarron, Ben_Adida

13:02:21 [mhausenblas]

present+ Simone

13:02:36 [Steven]

hi mark

13:02:39 [Zakim]

+??P0

13:02:44 [Simone]

Zakim, P0 is me

13:02:44 [Zakim]

sorry, Simone, I do not recognize a party named 'P0'

13:03:02 [mhausenblas]

zakim, ??P0 is simone

13:03:02 [Zakim]

+simone; got it

13:03:04 [Simone]

Zakim ??P0 is me

13:03:08 [benadida]

zakim, pick a victim

13:03:08 [Zakim]

Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose ShaneM (muted)

13:03:17 [Steven]

zakim, who is noisy?

13:03:17 [ShaneM]

zakim, unmute me

13:03:17 [Zakim]

ShaneM should no longer be muted

13:03:27 [Zakim]

Steven, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: simone (94%), ??P2 (39%), ShaneM (69%), Ben_Adida (5%)

13:03:38 [Simone]

Zakim, Mute me

13:03:38 [Zakim]

simone should now be muted

13:03:40 [Steven]

zakim, mute ??p2

13:03:40 [Zakim]

sorry, Steven, I do not know which phone connection belongs to ??p2

13:04:02 [Steven]

zakim, who is noisy?

13:04:14 [Zakim]

Steven, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: ??P2 (79%), ShaneM (5%), Ben_Adida (31%)

13:04:22 [Steven]

zakim, mute ??P2

13:04:22 [Zakim]

sorry, Steven, I do not know which phone connection belongs to ??P2

13:04:33 [ShaneM]

zakim, mute me

13:04:33 [Zakim]

ShaneM should now be muted

13:04:38 [Steven]

zakim, mute p2

13:04:38 [Zakim]

sorry, Steven, I do not know which phone connection belongs to p2

13:04:42 [TomB]

zakim, please mute me

13:04:42 [Zakim]

sorry, TomB, I do not know which phone connection belongs to you

13:04:55 [Steven]

zakim, who is here?

13:04:55 [Zakim]

On the phone I see mhausenblas, ShaneM (muted), FabienG, Steven, Ben_Adida, simone (muted)

13:04:57 [Zakim]

On IRC I see benadida, Simone, Steven, TomB, Zakim, RRSAgent, FabienG, ShaneM, mhausenblas, markbirbeck_

13:05:12 [Steven]

zakim, who is noisy?

13:05:22 [Zakim]

Steven, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: ??P2 (61%), Ben_Adida (38%)

13:06:30 [mhausenblas]

ScribeNick: mhausenblas

13:06:35 [mhausenblas]

Chair: Ben

13:06:56 [mhausenblas]

Regrets: Mark, Ralph

13:07:08 [mhausenblas]

RRSAgent, draft minutes

13:07:08 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/04/16-rdfa-minutes.html mhausenblas

13:07:14 [mhausenblas]

RRSAgent, make logs public

13:07:42 [mhausenblas]

Ben: Any additions to the agenda?

13:07:44 [mhausenblas]

No

13:07:54 [mhausenblas]

Topic: 1. Action Items

13:08:00 [mhausenblas]

[NEW] ACTION: Ben to update issues list [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/04/11-rdfa-minutes.html#action13]

13:08:04 [mhausenblas]

-- done

13:08:21 [mhausenblas]

[NEW] ACTION: Michael to update Fabian's XSLT [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/04/11-rdfa-minutes.html#action12]

13:08:31 [mhausenblas]

-- done

13:08:45 [mhausenblas]

Fabien has actually done the work !

13:08:55 [mhausenblas]

[PENDING] ACTION: Ben start a list of RDF/XML features that are not supported by RDFa [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/01/23-swd-minutes.html#action01]

13:08:58 [mhausenblas]

-- continues

13:09:10 [mhausenblas]

[PENDING] ACTION: Ben to add issue to issues list and start discussion with previous reference and issue reference [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/04/02-rdfa-minutes.html#action12]

13:09:17 [mhausenblas]

-- done

13:09:24 [mhausenblas]

[PENDING] ACTION: Ben to look into Science Commons use case [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/12/11-htmltf-minutes.html#action04]

13:09:27 [mhausenblas]

-- continues

13:09:37 [mhausenblas]

[PENDING] ACTION: Ben to take a look at http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2006Jun/0001.html to see if issue has been resolved [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/03/12-rdfa-minutes.html#action17]

13:09:43 [mhausenblas]

-- continues

13:10:24 [mhausenblas]

regrets+ Wing

13:11:16 [mhausenblas]

[PENDING] ACTION: Elias to look for cases where plain literal is more of a common use. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/03/19-rdfa-minutes.html#action24]

13:11:25 [mhausenblas]

-- withdraw

13:11:37 [mhausenblas]

[PENDING] ACTION: Elias to send email to list with use case from IBM [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/12/04-htmltf-minutes.html#action10]

13:11:40 [mhausenblas]

-- continues

13:11:46 [mhausenblas]

[PENDING] ACTION: Mark produce more examples of applicability of n-ary relations from IPTC documents [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/10/23-htmltf-minutes.html#action08]

13:11:50 [mhausenblas]

-- continues

13:11:57 [mhausenblas]

[PENDING] ACTION: MarkB to work rdf:label back into RDFa syntax when using @content [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/03/19-rdfa-minutes.html#action25]

13:12:00 [mhausenblas]

-- continues

13:12:12 [mhausenblas]

[PENDING] ACTION: Steven to put together sample XHTML2 doc with all mime type, etc. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/09/19-htmltf-minutes.html#action01]

13:12:15 [mhausenblas]

-- continues

13:12:49 [mhausenblas]

[PENDING] ACTION: Wing add a property to the test case schema for tracking origin and approval of an individual test [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/03/05-rdfa-minutes.html#action11]

13:12:55 [mhausenblas]

-- continues

13:13:04 [mhausenblas]

Topic: 2. Test Cases

13:13:16 [Steven]

scribe: Steven

13:13:18 [mhausenblas]

-> http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/RDFa/testsuite/testcases/ TC

13:13:26 [Steven]

mh: THis is the test case index

13:13:30 [Steven]

s/TH/Th/

13:13:50 [Steven]

... we are using SPARQL as reference

13:14:09 [Steven]

... tests cover new tests like the one introduced by Fabien

13:14:24 [Steven]

... there are some tests still pending from the primer, mailing lists, etc

13:14:32 [Zakim]

+??P5

13:14:48 [Steven]

zakim, ??P5 is TomB

13:14:49 [Zakim]

I already had ??P5 as TomB, Steven

13:14:54 [Steven]

:-)

13:15:03 [Steven]

mh: How do we plan to approve them?

13:15:08 [ShaneM]

zakim, unmute me

13:15:08 [Zakim]

ShaneM should no longer be muted

13:15:27 [Steven]

Ben: We should all approve all the tests, so we have a record that these are a[pproved test cases

13:15:36 [Steven]

Ben: Have people looked at them all?

13:15:39 [Steven]

q+

13:15:48 [Steven]

Ben: I'd like to approve a few of them

13:15:57 [Steven]

... and slowly catch up

13:17:01 [Steven]

Steven: I've never heard of groups agreeing test cases before.

13:17:14 [Steven]

... Usually problems occur and then issues get discussed

13:17:39 [ShaneM]

q+

13:17:41 [mhausenblas]

-> http://www.w3.org/TR/grddl-tests/ GRDDL test

13:17:46 [Steven]

mh: THe GRDDLE test cases were approved individually

13:17:50 [Steven]

s/TH/Th/

13:17:55 [Steven]

s/LE/L/

13:18:01 [Steven]

q-

13:18:34 [Steven]

Steven: Schema has O(10000) tests

13:18:45 [mhausenblas]

q+

13:19:09 [Steven]

Fabien: For GRDDL, sets of tests were approved after running through implementations

13:19:33 [Steven]

Shane: The tests are expressed as XHTML 1.1, which is fine, but they are not legal XHTML 1.1

13:19:38 [Steven]

Ben: Good point6

13:19:51 [Steven]

s/6//

13:19:59 [Steven]

q+

13:20:05 [Steven]

ack shaneM

13:20:07 [ShaneM]

q-

13:20:09 [mhausenblas]

ack me

13:20:33 [Steven]

mh: Let's do the approval based on the partitioning

13:20:40 [Steven]

... across languages

13:21:46 [mhausenblas]

-> http://www.w3.org/2005/08/online_xslt/xslt?xslfile=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.w3.org%2F2006%2F07%2FSWD%2FRDFa%2Ftestsuite%2Fwork%2Fmanifest2html.xslt&xmlfile=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.w3.org%2F2006%2F07%2FSWD%2FRDFa%2Ftestsuite%2Ftestcases%2Frdfa-test-manifest.rdf&content-type=&submit=transform Human readable form TC

13:21:54 [Steven]

Steven: I think Shane was suuggesting using the XHTML+RDFa DTD

13:22:00 [Steven]

... and make sure the fiules are valid

13:22:05 [Steven]

s/iu/i/

13:22:25 [ShaneM]

Yes, and in the context of HTML 4 perhaps use the sample HTML 4 DTD I put together

13:22:27 [Steven]

mh: We are working on the partitioning, so let's wait till next week

13:22:51 [Steven]

Ben: Go ahead with the partitioning, then freeze them, and email the current implementors

13:23:18 [Steven]

... (me, Fabien, Elias), and then let them test, and send any problems

13:23:28 [Steven]

... and use that as basis for the approval

13:23:58 [benadida]

ACTION: MichaelH to do partitioning of TCs, freeze the XHTML1.1+RDFa, and invite implementors to comment.

13:24:13 [Steven]

(Above URL doesn't work in all browsers apparently)

13:25:15 [mhausenblas]

Topic: 3. Schedule

13:25:18 [Steven]

Scribe: Michael

13:25:28 [Steven]

scribenick: mhausenblas

13:25:38 [mhausenblas]

-> http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/wiki/RDFa#RDFa_schedule Schedule

13:25:46 [mhausenblas]

Ben: Moving to west cost

13:26:15 [mhausenblas]

... will update the TF about new meeting scheduling (poll)

13:26:20 [Steven]

Steven: regrets for the 30th April

13:26:33 [mhausenblas]

.. next week call as usual, week after not here

13:26:47 [Steven]

... Queen's Day (if you know what that means, then you know what that means....)

13:27:03 [mhausenblas]

Ben: We are making progress

13:27:17 [mhausenblas]

... but still behind

13:27:46 [Steven]

http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/wiki/RDFa#RDFa_schedule

13:28:05 [mhausenblas]

Ben: We got comments on UC from Fabien

13:29:03 [mhausenblas]

... rec-track: need last call for all documents?

13:29:23 [Steven]

q+

13:29:30 [mhausenblas]

Fabien: In GRDDL, for Primer we made LC

13:29:54 [FabienG]

q++

13:29:57 [FabienG]

q+

13:30:24 [mhausenblas]

Steven: For normative stuff as Syntax absolutely necessary

13:30:44 [mhausenblas]

... but no rec track for non-normative things

13:31:08 [mhausenblas]

Fabien: In GRDDL we had a vote on the according docs

13:31:48 [mhausenblas]

q+

13:31:59 [benadida]

ack Steven

13:32:00 [benadida]

ack +

13:32:03 [benadida]

ack FabienG

13:32:58 [Steven]

What do we see as the advantage of rec track on a primer??

13:33:35 [mhausenblas]

Michael: Let us go for rec track only with syntax, rest if time allows

13:33:51 [ShaneM]

Does the primer have a short name already?

13:33:55 [benadida]

ACTION: Ben to discuss Primer and Use Cases as Note, Syntax and Test Cases as REC, at SWD WG meeting

13:34:16 [benadida]

http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml-rdfa-primer/

13:35:22 [mhausenblas]

Michael: Please add -> http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/RDFa/ RDFa Overview

13:35:47 [benadida]

ACTION: Ben to discuss RDFa Overview as a note

13:36:29 [mhausenblas]

Ben: Will discuss these issues with the SWD on tomorrow's call

13:37:25 [mhausenblas]

... happy that Steven is also on Syntax

13:37:46 [FabienG]

Pointer to the pubrule checker for the note : http://www.w3.org/2005/07/pubrules?uimode=checker_full&uri=

13:38:09 [benadida]

ACTION: Ben to hand over rdfa syntax baton to Steven on 4/23

13:38:47 [mhausenblas]

Ben: Present the Syntax doc as a WD to SWD WG

13:40:20 [mhausenblas]

Ben: Approval of first set of TC by next telecon

13:40:24 [mhausenblas]

Michael: Ok

13:41:29 [mhausenblas]

Ben: Michael, push the TC!

13:43:32 [mhausenblas]

Ben: Schedule Primer and UC on May 28

13:44:04 [ShaneM]

I can review Primer and Use Cases.

13:44:55 [mhausenblas]

Ben: I'm currently updating the Wiki to reflect the new assignments

13:45:02 [benadida]

ACTION: Ben to flesh out the schedule and present for everyone's approval next week.

13:48:17 [benadida]

ACTION: Ben to email list about next week's vote on a resolution regarding CLASS and ROLE attributes and rdf:type.

13:48:59 [mhausenblas]

Michael: Please note that -> http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/track/issues/3 role/class issue has been updated

13:51:09 [mhausenblas]

Topic: 4. SRC attribute discussion

13:51:28 [mhausenblas]

postponed

13:51:34 [mhausenblas]

Topic: 5. MIME type for XHTML1.1+RDFa and resulting IE issues

13:52:11 [mhausenblas]

Shane: XHTML+XML is the media type, but this does not deliver correctly

13:52:23 [mhausenblas]

... no resolution, yet

13:52:42 [mhausenblas]

... I'm ope to ideas

13:53:08 [mhausenblas]

Ben: So, it wouldn't validate?

13:53:28 [mhausenblas]

Shane: No, does not effect validation

13:53:56 [mhausenblas]

... but has effect on prefix declaration

13:54:19 [mhausenblas]

Ben: So, the validator does not accept the xmlns prefixes

13:54:34 [mhausenblas]

ack me

13:55:03 [mhausenblas]

Steven: Depends on SGML or XML

13:55:16 [mhausenblas]

... XML should accept it

13:55:37 [mhausenblas]

... so the validator should not complain

13:56:06 [mhausenblas]

... currently: SGML/DTD validation

13:56:45 [mhausenblas]

Shane: There is no XHTML 1.1 XSD, but an XML-DTD

13:58:52 [mhausenblas]

-> http://www.w3.org/QA/2007/04/validator_080_upgrade_notes.html Validator upgrade notes

13:59:31 [mhausenblas]

Steven: The update is in the pipeline

13:59:53 [mhausenblas]

... XHTML M15N comes out, then schema follows

14:00:09 [mhausenblas]

RRSAgent, draft minutes

14:00:09 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/04/16-rdfa-minutes.html mhausenblas

14:00:54 [benadida]

ACTION: Ben to ask W3C about XML-DTD validation

14:01:00 [Steven]

s/M15N/M12N/

14:01:16 [mhausenblas]

present+ Steven_Pemberton

14:01:23 [mhausenblas]

present+ Michael_Hausenblas

14:04:12 [mhausenblas]

Steven: Two issues, validator and processors (user agents)

14:04:25 [ShaneM]

The Media Type is an announcement mechanism that tells a user agent what processing engine to use, in theory.

14:04:44 [ShaneM]

XHTML 1.1 mandates the use of application/xhtml+xml - which IE does not grok

14:06:49 [mhausenblas]

Ben: We have to sort out things and figure out the problems

14:07:24 [mhausenblas]

Steven: There are some tricks to convince IE to do it right

14:07:41 [mhausenblas]

Ben: Should we actually recommend a specific way?

14:08:00 [ShaneM]

the media type associated with documents annotated with RDFa should be the media type of the host document.

14:08:14 [ShaneM]

s/host document/host language/

14:08:18 [mhausenblas]

+1

14:08:54 [benadida]

RESOLUTION: the media type associated with documents annotated with RDFa should be the media type of the host language.

14:08:58 [benadida]

to be voted on next week

14:09:14 [benadida]

ACTION: Ben to email the resolution on mime type to the mailing list

14:09:26 [mhausenblas]

RRSAgent, draft minutes

14:09:26 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/04/16-rdfa-minutes.html mhausenblas

14:09:36 [mhausenblas]

Ben: Any AOB?

14:09:50 [mhausenblas]

... beside @src

14:10:03 [mhausenblas]

... will be done next week

14:10:07 [Zakim]

-ShaneM

14:10:09 [Zakim]

-Steven

14:10:11 [Simone]

bye!

14:10:12 [Zakim]

-mhausenblas

14:10:13 [Zakim]

-Ben_Adida

14:10:18 [Zakim]

-FabienG

14:10:20 [ShaneM]

ShaneM has left #rdfa

14:10:22 [Zakim]

-TomB

14:10:24 [Zakim]

-simone

14:10:25 [Zakim]

SW_SWD(RDFa)9:00AM has ended

14:10:27 [Zakim]

Attendees were mhausenblas, [IPcaller], ShaneM, FabienG, Steven, Ben_Adida, simone, TomB

14:10:39 [Simone]

Simone has left #rdfa

14:11:54 [benadida]

benadida has left #rdfa

14:12:26 [Steven]

rrsagent, make minutes

14:12:26 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/04/16-rdfa-minutes.html Steven

14:13:44 [Steven]

I don't I'm afraid

14:13:49 [Steven]

Can't we infer who it was?

14:13:52 [mhausenblas]

hm

14:13:54 [mhausenblas]

no

14:14:12 [mhausenblas]

also not from IRC, i think

14:15:44 [Steven]

sometimes zakim reports the person's name and the connection name

14:16:15 [mhausenblas]

ok. thanks. anyway, I'll go over the minutes and send it to ralpH ...

14:16:20 [mhausenblas]

cheers, bye!

14:16:22 [Steven]

k

14:16:23 [Steven]

thanks

14:16:24 [Steven]

bye

15:34:47 [ShaneM]

ShaneM has joined #rdfa

16:02:12 [Zakim]

Zakim has left #rdfa