15:06:59 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #grddl-wg
15:06:59 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2007/03/28-grddl-wg-irc
15:07:13 <HarryH> Jeremy, harry, and john-l have made it to the phone.
15:07:39 <HarryH> Now chime has made it to the phone.
15:07:50 <HarryH> I recommend people try again.
15:09:32 <jjc-scribe> roll call: jeremy, chime, dan, john-l, harry
15:09:36 <HarryH> Meeting: GRDDL Working Group
15:09:41 <HarryH> Chair: Harry Halpin
15:09:46 <HarryH> Agenda: http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/grddl-wg/weekly-agenda
15:09:52 <HarryH> Scribe: jjc
15:10:03 <HarryH> Anyone want to be on the phone who can't make it?
15:10:05 <HarryH> Brian?
15:10:08 <briansuda> i am here
15:10:17 <jjc-scribe> brian on the phone
15:10:28 <HarryH> Zakim, next item
15:10:28 <Zakim> agendum 1. "Convene GRDDL WG meeting of 2007-03-21T11:00-0400" taken up
15:10:38 <DanC> except that today's the 28th
15:10:58 <HarryH> Hmmm...maybe that wasn't checked into CVS.
15:11:00 <HarryH> PROPOSED: to approve GRDDL WG Weekly -- 21 March 2007 as a true record
15:11:08 <HarryH> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-grddl-wg/20http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-grddl-wg/2007Mar/att-0139/21-grddl-wg-minutes.html07Mar/att-0139/21-grddl-wg-minutes.html
15:11:29 <HarryH> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-grddl-wg/2007Mar/att-0139/21-grddl-wg-minutes.html
15:12:58 <HarryH> At least BrianS, jjc, HarryH, DanC, simone, rreck and Chime were there.
15:13:37 <HarryH> ACTION: jjc to correct the minutes from 21 March 2007 to get full list of attendees.
15:14:23 <HarryH> RESOLVED: to approve  http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-grddl-wg/2007Mar/att-0139/21-grddl-wg-minutes.html pending jjc's corrections to attendee list.
15:14:41 <HarryH> #
15:14:41 <HarryH>     * PROPOSED: to meet again Wed, 4 April 11:00-0500. scribe volunteer?
15:14:41 <HarryH> # Patent Policy
15:14:54 <HarryH> PROPOSED: to meet again Wed, 4 April 11:00-0500. scribe volunteer?
15:15:05 <HarryH> John-l will scribe.
15:15:11 <HarryH> Zakim, next item
15:15:11 <Zakim> agendum 2. "Patent Policy" taken up
15:16:00 <HarryH> Samsung and Citigroup hadn't filled out the web-form.
15:17:53 <HarryH> ACTION: To communicate to Ian and Steve to figure out if Citigroup and Samsung not being in good standing.
15:18:23 <HarryH> agendum 3. "W3C Fellows Program"
15:20:54 <HarryH> We may have more resources thanks to W3C Fellows Program.
15:21:11 <HarryH> agendum 4. GRDDL Spec: Last Call
15:21:37 <DanC> WITHDRAWN: ACTION: Ian to clarify profileTransformation for JJC
15:22:02 <HarryH> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-grddl-wg/2007Mar/0022.html
15:22:08 <DanC> -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-grddl-wg/2007Mar/0022.html Web architecture best practices, media-types, and #issue-output-formats
15:23:25 <iand> iand has joined #grddl-wg
15:25:11 <jjc-scribe> q+ to offer my suggestion
15:26:53 <jjc-scribe> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-grddl-comments/2007JanMar/0079
15:27:09 <jjc-scribe> > [[
15:27:09 <jjc-scribe> > The transformation property relates the XPath document nodes
15:27:09 <jjc-scribe> > to an RDF graph. These need not use RDF/XML as an intermediate
15:27:09 <jjc-scribe> > stage. To give an XSLT example, see testlist1#atomttl1, in which
15:27:09 <jjc-scribe> > the attribute-value media-type="text/rdf+n3" on the xsl:output
15:27:10 <jjc-scribe> > element indicates a different media type, from the default
15:27:12 <jjc-scribe> > value, within GRDDL, of "application/rdf+xml". GRDDL agents
15:27:14 <jjc-scribe> > that can process such a media type, can then produce an RDF graph
15:27:16 <jjc-scribe> > in accordance with the media type. Non-XSLT transforms may
15:27:18 <jjc-scribe> > indicate the RDF graph in some other, unspecified, fashion.
15:27:20 <jjc-scribe> > ]]
15:27:22 <jjc-scribe> > 
15:28:36 <HarryH> ACTION: DanC to look at: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-grddl-comments/2007JanMar/0079.
15:28:50 <HarryH> Chime believes jjc's text addresses as his concerns.
15:29:22 <jjc-scribe> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/grddl-wg/td/unknown-media-type
15:29:40 <DanC> 1.239 has a raw paste of the text in 0079, with a @@todo
15:29:45 <jjc-scribe> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/grddl-wg/td/empty
15:31:03 <HarryH> Jeremy's previous non-normative suggestions on GRDDL Spec re validation and caching
15:31:18 <HarryH> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-grddl-wg/2007Feb/0243.html
15:33:56 <HarryH> I could see some informative text suggesting that you really try to minimize access to DTDs, namespace docs, etc.
15:34:39 <jjc-scribe> q+ to say html dtd needed
15:36:00 <HarryH> ack jjc-scribe
15:36:48 <HarryH> DanC: Stick the namespace in your document explicitly and not rely on DTD 
15:36:56 <HarryH> Chime: Does this address entity reference concern?
15:36:59 <DanC> I'm OK to to take an action around "stick the namespace in your document ; don't rely on getting it from the DTD"
15:37:07 <HarryH> jjc: Something will go wrong if you don't have DTD in there.
15:37:13 <HarryH> DanC: This would show up at GRDDL level.
15:37:42 <jjc-scribe> jjc: entity in html gets transformed into rdf content
15:38:59 <HarryH> Zakim, who's on the phone?
15:39:07 <HarryH> I don't understand "who's on the phone"
15:40:53 <HarryH> ACTION: jjc to take action to draft text to "don't write transforms that depend on whether or not its validated"
15:41:18 <HarryH> Validation is not explicitly required by GRDDL.
15:42:27 <HarryH> My suggestion is that we add an explicit sentence in Faithful Infoset saying that "Validation is not explicitly required by GRDDL."
15:42:34 <jjc-scribe> text at end of section 6 in spec
15:42:42 <jjc-scribe> http://www.w3.org/TR/grddl/#txforms
15:42:53 <chimezie> I think commentary on entity issues should be placed after the faithful infoset section
15:43:32 <jjc-scribe> ACTION: jjc to draft test cases on validation
15:44:33 <HarryH> ACTION: Chime send out "We're still thinking about your comments,  Stefano" 
15:46:19 <HarryH> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-grddl-comments/2007JanMar/0071.html
15:46:33 <HarryH> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-grddl-comments/2007JanMar/0078.html
15:46:46 <HarryH> jjc: I've added Jena tests to the pending list.
15:46:54 <DanC> "are you satisfied?" msg to ERH: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-grddl-comments/2007JanMar/0078.html
15:47:03 <jjc-scribe> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/grddl-wg/td/pendinglist#security3
15:47:46 <HarryH> ACTION: jjc to update Elliotte with the fact that the tests that address his concerns are in pending.
15:47:54 <HarryH> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-grddl-comments/2007JanMar/0077.html
15:48:24 <HarryH> Tony did say: "Best close it out here. :)
15:48:24 <HarryH> "
15:49:22 <HarryH> Chime: thinks the informative rules help here.
15:50:08 <chimezie> ?RDFXML gspec:rdfParse ?G.
15:50:10 <chimezie> in particular
15:52:21 <DanC> "If an information resource IR is represented by a conforming RDF/XML document[RDFX], then the RDF graph represented by that document is a GRDDL result of IR."
15:55:32 <chimezie> "    * Whenever the RDF/XML spec says that an RDF/XML document with root node ROOT represents a graph G, we have ?ROOT gspec:rdfParse ?G.
15:55:33 <chimezie> Some from XPath and XSLT:"
15:58:48 <jjc-scribe> http://www.w3.org/TR/2006/WD-grddl-primer-20061002/hCalendar.png
15:58:50 <HarryH> ACTION: DanC to respond to Tony Hammond
15:59:06 <HarryH> ACTION: Chime to make a visual representation of RDF graph and RDF/XML difference, HarryH to check in when done.
15:59:12 <HarryH> ACTION: Chime to make a visual representation of RDF graph and RDF/XML difference, HarryH to check in when done for Primer
15:59:14 <jjc-scribe> jeremy says that the above picture in primer seems to suffer the problem
15:59:33 <DanC> (the diagrams in the primer were made with MS ppt, I believe. I wonder if chime's diagram will look funky by comparison)
16:03:36 <jjc-scribe> discussion of oracle and product shipping
16:03:50 <HarryH> ACTION: Ask Susie about GRDDL and Oracle deployment plans, and possible comments on spec if they actually read spec..
16:07:28 <DanC> 1.240 <p class="ed">@@<a href="http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-grddl-comments/2007JanMar/0079.html">27 March from jjc</a></p>
16:08:25 <jjc-scribe> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/grddl-wg/td/pendinglist#loopx
16:08:41 <DanC> (if I haven't ack'd a comment by updating http://www.w3.org/2004/01/rdxh/spec in some way, please assume I forgot your comment and send it again next week)
16:13:14 <chimezie> The test case should call out to the spec about the right of the agent to follow a policy that doesn't allow GRDDL mechanism loops
16:13:25 <DanC> right
16:13:50 <HarryH> ACTION: jjc to modify #loopx to relate to discussion about SHOULD.
16:14:08 <HarryH> Zakim, magically go to Test Cases as Rec agendum.
16:14:09 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #grddl-wg
16:14:20 <DanC> Zakim, this is grddl
16:14:20 <Zakim> sorry, DanC, I do not see a conference named 'grddl' in progress or scheduled at this time
16:14:21 <chimezie> where is harry's wand?
16:14:21 <HarryH> agendum 7. Test Cases as Rec?
16:14:34 <DanC> (Zakim has not regained all of his marbles)
16:14:49 <HarryH> Should we Rec Test-Cases or not?
16:15:28 <HarryH> Agendum 9. Test-Cases
16:15:33 <HarryH> ACTION: Chime  to fix the relative URL problem
16:16:10 <HarryH> Chime: A test-documet with internal anchors that are full URIs to test items.
16:16:13 <DanC> (I was trying to figure out who has the ball on test cases publication. Harry, I recommend you track the critical path much more clearly, at least in weekly agendas)
16:16:16 <jjc-scribe> chime - test doc has anchor to sections
16:16:26 <jjc-scribe> has links to test material to test directory
16:16:43 <chimezie> 1) A test document
16:16:50 <jjc-scribe> also has URIs for test instances that will be in GRDDL results
16:16:53 <HarryH> (I thought it was pretty clear and the working draft had been published.)
16:16:54 <chimezie> with it's own uri and fragments to test section 
16:17:20 <chimezie> http://www.w3.org/TR/grddl-tests/#atomttl1
16:17:48 <chimezie> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/grddl-wg/td/testlist1#atomttl1
16:18:03 <chimezie> http://www.w3.org/TR/grddl-tests/atom-grddl.xml
16:18:06 <DanC> (eek. I advise against minting http://www.w3.org/TR/grddl-tests/#atomttl1 ; if it's been minted, I advise against further investment in it)
16:18:20 <DanC> (eek. I advise against http://www.w3.org/TR/grddl-tests/atom-grddl.xml too)
16:18:20 <chimezie> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/grddl-wg/td/atom-grddl.xml
16:18:50 <DanC> just keep http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/grddl-wg/td/testlist1#atomttl1
16:20:23 <chimezie> so the test material should always be the uri in the test 'repository' - grddl-wg/td/...
16:24:21 <jjc-scribe> Danc suggests dropping fragments in munging of testlist1 into TR space
16:24:53 <jjc-scribe> in order to avoid having multiple uris for same resource
16:28:42 <HarryH> Chime: I feel like we have consensus on test material.
16:28:43 <jjc-scribe> http://www.w3.org/TR/owl-test/byIssue#I4.6-003
16:29:01 <HarryH> Chime: Feels strongly that we unify URIs for human and machine-readable purposes.
16:29:02 <jjc-scribe> Description: (informative) <I4.6/Manifest003#test>
16:29:04 <john-l> <.w3.org/TR/grddl-tests/#atomttl1> a <http://xmlns.com/foaf/0.1/Document>; rdfs:sameAs <http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/grddl-wg/td/testlist1.html#atomttl1> ?
16:29:22 <jjc-scribe> links explicitly to http://www.w3.org/2002/03owlt/I4.6/Manifest003#test
16:30:27 <jjc-scribe> for the earl ouput chime is ambivalent about which uri to use?
16:30:38 <DanC> (I look forward to progress on: ACTION: jjc  to produce EARL for his implementation, and then sort out multiple test passing in his EARL. )
16:32:14 <john-l> <http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/grddl-wg/td/testlist1#atomttl1> a <http://www.w3.org/2000/10/rdf-tests/rdfcore/testSchema#Test> ?
16:32:42 <HarryH> We've published: http://www.w3.org/TR/grddl-tests/
16:32:46 <DanC> q+ to ask that somebody announce http://www.w3.org/TR/2007/WD-grddl-tests-20070328/ 
16:33:05 <jjc-scribe> http://www.w3.org/TR/grddl-tests/projects.xml
16:33:06 <HarryH> Now we need to fix the relative URI in the next publication of test cases.
16:35:50 <DanC> options are 404 (NO), 410 (maybe), 303 ...
16:36:04 <DanC> 301 moved permanently works for me
16:36:51 <HarryH> ACTION: jjc to manufacture .htaccess file for test cases using 301 "Moved Permanently" and e-mail Jean Gui. 
16:37:20 <DanC> the action is not just to email jean-gui; it's to get the redirect installed, with jean-gui's help
16:37:54 <HarryH> ACTION: Chime to announce to semantic-web@w3.org that GRDDL Test Cases is a WD.
16:39:50 <DanC> ADJOURN
16:39:53 <HarryH> Meeting Adjourned
16:40:02 <DanC> RRSAgent, draft minutes
16:40:02 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/03/28-grddl-wg-minutes.html DanC
16:40:11 <DanC> RRSAgent, make logs world-access
16:40:16 <iand> iand has left #grddl-wg
16:57:08 <HarryH> Ack, just lost you.
16:57:11 <DanC> oh well, harry; I'll tell you the story another time
16:57:13 <HarryH> Anyways, I forwarded the e-mail.
16:57:16 <DanC> thansk
16:57:20 <HarryH> There's another one, wait a sec.
16:57:26 <HarryH> The last thing to mention is re HASTAC.
16:57:37 <HarryH> Are you happy giving a W3C Recruiting talk on Thursday.
16:57:37 <DanC> oh. call me back re hastac?
16:57:46 <DanC> RRSAgent, stop