IRC log of rdfa on 2007-03-19

Timestamps are in UTC.

12:44:15 [RRSAgent]

RRSAgent has joined #rdfa

12:44:15 [RRSAgent]

logging to http://www.w3.org/2007/03/19-rdfa-irc

12:44:23 [RalphS]

Meeting: RDF-in-XHTML TF

12:44:29 [RalphS]

Regrets: Ben, Michael

12:44:41 [RalphS]

Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2007Mar/0056.html

12:45:07 [RalphS]

-> http://www.w3.org/2007/03/12-rdfa-minutes.html previous 2007-03-12

12:45:13 [RalphS]

rrsagent, please make record public

12:53:19 [Simone]

hi Ralph, thanks. how are You?

12:58:31 [Zakim]

SW_SWD(RDFa)9:00AM has now started

12:58:38 [Zakim]

+Ralph

13:00:23 [EliasT]

EliasT has joined #rdfa

13:00:43 [wing]

wing has joined #rdfa

13:01:31 [Zakim]

+[IBMCambridge]

13:01:38 [wing]

zakim, IBMCambridge is me

13:01:38 [Zakim]

+wing; got it

13:02:10 [Zakim]

+Elias_Torres

13:02:18 [Zakim]

+??P1

13:02:22 [EliasT]

Zakim, Elias_Torres is me

13:02:22 [Zakim]

+EliasT; got it

13:02:31 [RalphS]

zakim, ??p1 is Simone

13:02:31 [Zakim]

+Simone; got it

13:03:51 [RalphS]

Chair: Ralph

13:03:53 [RalphS]

Scribe: Elias

13:03:59 [EliasT]

Scribe: EliasT

13:03:59 [RalphS]

scribenick: eliast

13:04:54 [RalphS]

agenda+ Bulk Action Item Review

13:05:05 [RalphS]

Topic: Convene, next meeting

13:05:47 [Zakim]

+??P4

13:05:57 [RalphS]

zakim, ??p4 is Mark

13:05:57 [Zakim]

+Mark; got it

13:08:36 [Mark]

Mark has joined #rdfa

13:09:06 [EliasT]

Zakim, mute me

13:09:06 [Zakim]

EliasT should now be muted

13:09:28 [EliasT]

Zakim, unmute me

13:09:28 [Zakim]

EliasT should no longer be muted

13:10:17 [RalphS]

Elias: what are the mails from Shane concerning?

13:10:30 [RalphS]

Mark: Shane is updating the XHTML1.1 module draft

13:10:52 [RalphS]

... the XHTML 1.1 modules are there in DTD form but not yet the XML Schema modules

13:11:06 [RalphS]

... so DTD validation is now possible

13:11:41 [RalphS]

... I am working on the XML Schema versions

13:12:17 [EliasT]

Topic: Test Case

13:12:26 [RalphS]

next meeting: 26 March

13:12:33 [RalphS]

zakim, move to next agendum

13:12:33 [Zakim]

agendum 1. "Bulk Action Item Review" taken up [from RalphS]

13:13:10 [EliasT]

ACTION: Ben to get back in touch with Ian about eRDF/RDFa

13:13:13 [EliasT]

CONTINUES

13:13:28 [EliasT]

Zakim, action -1

13:13:28 [Zakim]

I don't understand 'action -1', EliasT

13:13:38 [EliasT]

action -1

13:13:47 [EliasT]

ACTION: Ben to get back in touch with Ian about eRDF/RDFa [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/03/12-rdfa-minutes.html#action08]

13:13:57 [EliasT]

[CONTINUES]

13:14:03 [EliasT]

ACTION: Ben to include agenda item for approval of existing tests [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/03/12-rdfa-minutes.html#action02]

13:14:07 [EliasT]

[CONTINUES]

13:14:15 [EliasT]

ACTION: Ben to take a look at http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2006Jun/0001.html to see if issue has been resolved [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/03/12-rdfa-minutes.html#action17]

13:14:17 [EliasT]

[CONTINUES]

13:14:23 [EliasT]

ACTION: Michael to put together a table with RDFa / XHTML1.1/2 / HTML [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/03/12-rdfa-minutes.html#action18]

13:14:25 [EliasT]

[DONE]

13:14:25 [RalphS]

-> http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/wiki/RDFaInHTML Feature comparison table

13:14:34 [EliasT]

ACTION: Ralph to update archive header page [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/03/12-rdfa-minutes.html#action04]

13:14:43 [EliasT]

[DONE]

13:14:55 [RalphS]

-> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/ TF Mail Archive

13:15:24 [EliasT]

ACTION: Simone to update FAQ wiki [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/03/12-rdfa-minutes.html#action14]

13:15:56 [EliasT]

[DONE]

13:16:00 [RalphS]

-> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2007Mar/0076.html "Wiki Updated" [SImone]

13:16:29 [EliasT]

Wing to take a look at http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2006Jun/0008.html [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/03/12-rdfa-minutes.html#action16]

13:16:37 [EliasT]

ACTION: Wing to take a look at http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2006Jun/0008.html [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/03/12-rdfa-minutes.html#action16]

13:16:41 [EliasT]

[DONE]

13:17:01 [RalphS]

Wing: there is a test

13:17:38 [RalphS]

ACTION: Wing add a property to the test case schema for tracking origin and approval of an individual test [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/03/05-rdfa-minutes.html#action11]

13:17:43 [RalphS]

Wing: just need to decide a name

13:17:47 [RalphS]

Elias: DAWG defined one

13:17:56 [EliasT]

[CONTINUES] ACTION: Wing add a property to the test case schema for tracking origin and approval of an individual test [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/03/05-rdfa-minutes.html#action11]

13:18:05 [EliasT]

[CONTINUES] ACTION: Ben start a list of RDF/XML features that are not supported by RDFa [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/01/23-swd-minutes.html#action01]

13:18:16 [EliasT]

[CONTINUES] ACTION: Ben to look into Science Commons use case [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/12/11-htmltf-minutes.html#action04]

13:18:39 [EliasT]

[CONTINUES] ACTION: Elias to send email to list with use case from IBM [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/12/04-htmltf-minutes.html#action10]

13:18:56 [RalphS]

Elias: I'm working with the guy who wrote the FireFox operator extension that parses microformats

13:19:09 [RalphS]

... I wrote a new javascript RDFa parser

13:19:17 [RalphS]

... might be able to get this into operator

13:19:57 [EliasT]

[CONTINUES] ACTION: Mark produce more examples of applicability of n-ary relations from IPTC documents [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/10/23-htmltf-minutes.html#action08]

13:20:05 [EliasT]

[CONTINUES] ACTION: Mark produce RDFa XHTML 1.1 module and spec [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/12/18-htmltf-minutes.html#action06]

13:20:40 [Mark]

http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/Group/2007/ED-xhtml-rdfa-20070317/

13:20:46 [Mark]

That's the spec.

13:21:44 [EliasT]

[DONE] Mark is done with the spec part.

13:22:07 [EliasT]

[CONTINUES] ACTION: Mark produce RDFa XHTML 1.1 module using XML Schema [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/12/18-htmltf-minutes.html#action06]

13:22:24 [RalphS]

agenda+ RDFa module spec

13:24:23 [EliasT]

[DONE] ACTION: Mark to put M12N schema up somewhere, and tell us where [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/01/29-htmltf-minutes.html#action01]

13:24:45 [EliasT]

[CONTINUES] ACTION: Mark to put M12N schema up somewhere, and tell us where [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/01/29-htmltf-minutes.html#action01]

13:25:06 [EliasT]

[CONTINUES] ACTION: Michael continue work on the FAQ template that Elias started [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/01/08-htmltf-minutes.html#action10]

13:25:47 [EliasT]

[CONTINUES] ACTION: Michael to prepare RDF/XML - RDFa comparison wiki page [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/02/12-htmltf-minutes.html#action09]

13:25:56 [EliasT]

[CONTINUES] ACTION: Steven to put together sample XHTML2 doc with all mime type, etc. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/09/19-htmltf-minutes.html#action01]

13:25:57 [RalphS]

zakim, move to next agendum

13:25:57 [Zakim]

agendum 2. "RDFa module spec" taken up [from RalphS]

13:27:12 [Mark]

http://www.formsplayer.com/node/213

13:27:27 [EliasT]

[DONE] ACTION: Mark to put M12N schema up somewhere, and tell us where [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/01/29-htmltf-minutes.html#action01]

13:27:45 [RalphS]

zakim, take up agendum 2

13:27:45 [Zakim]

agendum 2. "RDFa module spec" taken up [from RalphS]

13:28:21 [EliasT]

MarkB: Shane did a little bit more than we asked

13:29:00 [EliasT]

... for example he has restricted multiple values in rel attributes

13:29:16 [EliasT]

... we should discuss this on both lists

13:29:54 [EliasT]

q+

13:30:08 [EliasT]

Zakim, ack RalphS

13:30:08 [Zakim]

I see EliasT on the speaker queue

13:30:55 [EliasT]

RalphS: It would be more convenient if technical discussions on RDFa module be done on RDFa mailing list

13:31:33 [EliasT]

Zakim, mute me

13:31:33 [Zakim]

EliasT should now be muted

13:32:12 [EliasT]

RalphS: We still want a stand-alone RDFa specification, maybe extracting Shane's document would be a fine thing to do

13:34:28 [EliasT]

Zakim, unmute me

13:34:28 [Zakim]

EliasT should no longer be muted

13:34:38 [EliasT]

ACTION: MarkB to ask Shane to make his document public

13:34:59 [RalphS]

Elias: does this editors' draft refer to XHTML 1 or XHTML 2?

13:35:09 [RalphS]

Mark: it's all about XHTML Modularization 1.1

13:35:26 [RalphS]

... this RDFa module conforms to the approach of XHTML Modularization 1.1

13:35:36 [RalphS]

... it may also conform to XHTML 2

13:36:20 [RalphS]

... the intention for the XHTML 2 spec is to have it cite the XHTML 1.2 modules that are part of XHTML 2

13:38:30 [RalphS]

agenda+ XMLliteral

13:39:15 [RalphS]

zakim, move to next agendum

13:39:15 [Zakim]

agendum 3. "XMLliteral" taken up [from RalphS]

13:41:52 [RalphS]

-> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2007Feb/0003 Mark's 4 Feb summary of XMLLiteral vs. plain literal

13:42:38 [EliasT]

MarkB: The starting point of RDFa has always been the RDFa author. How do we take the things that RDFa authors markup and generate triples.

13:43:06 [EliasT]

... but I think the discussion has been on the reverse.. how do I as an RDF author encode this in XHTML.

13:43:43 [EliasT]

Zakim, q+ should we define the RDFa author?

13:43:43 [Zakim]

EliasT, you typed too many words without commas; I suspect you forgot to start with 'to ...'

13:43:47 [EliasT]

Zakim, q+ should we define the RDFa author

13:43:47 [Zakim]

EliasT, you typed too many words without commas; I suspect you forgot to start with 'to ...'

13:43:56 [EliasT]

Zakim, q+, should we define the RDFa author

13:43:56 [Zakim]

EliasT, you typed too many words without commas; I suspect you forgot to start with 'to ...'

13:47:41 [EliasT]

RalphS: I wanted to make sure we found the places in the document about rdf:XMLLiteral

13:47:48 [EliasT]

... http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/RDFa/syntax/ in 5.1.1.1

13:49:00 [EliasT]

MarkB: We have two methods: if you use @content that's a plain literal, if no datatype specified rdf:XMLLiteral.

13:49:34 [RalphS]

Elias: I think we're agreeing that the current document says the default is XMLLiteral

13:49:43 [RalphS]

... the question is whether we should change this decision

13:50:37 [RalphS]

Mark: the examples further down in 5.1.1 (e-mc2) don't work if we change to plain literals

13:51:58 [RalphS]

Elias: several commentors have said that they don't understand the rationale for using XMLLiteral

13:53:27 [RalphS]

... they're suggesting that if no datatype is specified, it should be treated as a plain literal

13:53:53 [RalphS]

... if the author wants to retain the markup, he must specify XMLLiteral

13:54:23 [Mark]

Mark: But you have once again summarised what you desire, and not why it is logically correct.

13:55:46 [RalphS]

Elias: it is better to go to plain literals because it will result in less markup in the document

13:56:04 [Mark]

zakim, q+

13:56:04 [Zakim]

I see RalphS, Mark on the speaker queue

13:56:40 [RalphS]

... want the least amount of markup for the common case, which will be plain literals

13:56:53 [RalphS]

Mark: you'd need to show why you need plain literals

13:57:34 [RalphS]

... DanBri noted that FOAF was really using typed literals even though his first reaction was that it was using plain literals

13:58:10 [RalphS]

... I dispute the idea that plain literals are really the most common

13:58:30 [RalphS]

Elias: it could be the case that people are not aware of what they're really using

13:58:46 [RalphS]

... what about problem of setting language if you're not using XMLLiteral?

13:58:53 [RalphS]

s/not using/using/

13:59:24 [RalphS]

Mark: ideal solution would be to allow both and use plain wherever there's no XML markup and XMLliteral when there is XML markup

13:59:48 [Steven]

Steven has joined #rdfa

13:59:57 [Steven]

zakim, dial steven-617

13:59:57 [Zakim]

ok, Steven; the call is being made

13:59:59 [Zakim]

+Steven

14:02:00 [Zakim]

-Ralph

14:02:33 [EliasT]

ACTION: Elias to look for cases where plain literal is more of a common use.

14:02:54 [Steven]

Apologies for missing the call!

14:02:59 [Mark]

Mark: I wasn't saying that FOAF used typed literals, but that the notion of 'literal' encompasses both plain and typed.

14:03:05 [Steven]

The hour daylight savings did it again!

14:03:13 [Steven]

I forgot to reset the alarm

14:03:33 [Steven]

rrsagent, pointer?

14:03:33 [RRSAgent]

See http://www.w3.org/2007/03/19-rdfa-irc#T14-03-33

14:22:42 [EliasT]

ACTION: MarkB to work rdf:label back into RDFa syntax when using @content

14:31:11 [EliasT]

RRSAgent, please generate minutes

14:31:11 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/03/19-rdfa-minutes.html EliasT

14:31:37 [Zakim]

-EliasT

14:31:39 [Zakim]

-Mark

14:31:41 [Zakim]

-wing

14:31:42 [Zakim]

-Steven

14:31:43 [Zakim]

-Simone

14:31:45 [Zakim]

SW_SWD(RDFa)9:00AM has ended

14:31:47 [Zakim]

Attendees were Ralph, wing, EliasT, Simone, Mark, Steven

14:32:30 [Steven]

rrsagent, make minutes

14:32:30 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/03/19-rdfa-minutes.html Steven

14:56:10 [EliasT]

EliasT has left #rdfa