16:04:37 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #grddl-wg
16:04:37 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2007/03/07-grddl-wg-irc
16:04:40 <jjc> jjc has joined #grddl-wg
16:05:34 <HarryH> Zakim, read agenda from http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/grddl-wg/weekly-agenda
16:05:34 <Zakim> working on it, HarryH
16:05:35 <Zakim> agenda+ Convene GRDDL WG meeting of 2007-02-28T11:00-0500
16:05:37 <Zakim> agendum 12 added
16:05:38 <Zakim> agenda+ Overview of Meeting
16:05:40 <Zakim> agendum 13 added
16:05:41 <Zakim> agenda+ [#issue-http-header-links]
16:05:42 <Zakim> agendum 14 added
16:05:43 <Zakim> agenda+ GRDDL Spec: Last Call
16:05:44 <Zakim> agendum 15 added
16:05:45 <Zakim> agenda+ Primer Document: Last Call?
16:05:46 <Zakim> agendum 16 added
16:05:47 <Zakim> agenda+ Use-Case Document: Going To Last Call?
16:05:49 <Zakim> agendum 17 added
16:05:51 <Zakim> agenda+ Test Cases as Rec?
16:05:53 <Zakim> agendum 18 added
16:05:55 <Zakim> agenda+ Misc Test-Cases nominated for approval
16:05:57 <Zakim> agendum 19 added
16:05:59 <Zakim> agenda+ tests for [#issue-mt-ns]
16:06:01 <Zakim> agendum 20 added
16:06:03 <Zakim> agenda+ tests for [#issue-faithful-infoset]
16:06:05 <Zakim> agendum 21 added
16:06:07 <Zakim> agenda+ tests for [#issue-base-param]
16:06:09 <Zakim> agendum 22 added
16:06:11 <Zakim> done reading agenda, HarryH
16:06:19 <Zakim> +??P6
16:06:25 <Simone> Zakim, ??P6 is Simone
16:06:25 <Zakim> +Simone; got it
16:06:29 <chimezie> Zakim, who is on the phone?
16:06:30 <Zakim> On the phone I see HarryH, danja, john-l, Chimezie_Ogbuji, briansuda, Murray_Maloney, Simone
16:08:10 <jjc2> jjc2 has joined #grddl-wg
16:08:30 <jjc2> dialing in a moment
16:09:43 <Zakim> + +0127368aaaa
16:10:31 <john-l> Zakim, aaaa is jjc
16:10:31 <Zakim> +jjc; got it
16:11:08 <HarryH> Zakim, read agenda from http://www.ibiblio.org/hhalpin/homepage/notes/weekly-agenda.rdf2
16:11:08 <Zakim> working on it, HarryH
16:11:09 <Zakim> agenda+ Convene GRDDL WG meeting of 2007-03-07T11:00-0500
16:11:11 <Zakim> agendum 23 added
16:11:14 <Zakim> agenda+ Patent Policy
16:11:15 <Zakim> agendum 24 added
16:11:16 <Zakim> agenda+ Advocating
16:11:17 <Zakim> agendum 25 added
16:11:18 <Zakim> agenda+ Primer Document: Last Call?
16:11:20 <Zakim> agendum 26 added
16:11:21 <Zakim> agenda+ Use-Case Document: Going To Last Call?
16:11:23 <Zakim> agendum 27 added
16:11:25 <Zakim> agenda+ Test Cases as Rec?
16:11:29 <Zakim> agendum 28 added
16:11:31 <Zakim> agenda+ Misc Test-Cases nominated for approval
16:11:33 <Zakim> agendum 29 added
16:11:35 <Zakim> agenda+ tests for [#issue-mt-ns]
16:11:37 <Zakim> agendum 30 added
16:11:39 <Zakim> agenda+ tests for [#issue-faithful-infoset]
16:11:41 <Zakim> agendum 31 added
16:11:43 <Zakim> agenda+ tests for [#issue-base-param]
16:11:45 <Zakim> agendum 32 added
16:11:47 <Zakim> agenda+ GRDDL Spec: Last Call
16:11:49 <Zakim> agendum 33 added
16:11:51 <Zakim> done reading agenda, HarryH
16:12:28 <HarryH> Zakim, please clear agenda
16:12:28 <Zakim> agenda cleared
16:12:28 <chimezie> Zakim, please clear the agenda
16:12:29 <Zakim> agenda cleared
16:12:45 <HarryH> Zakim, read agenda from http://www.ibiblio.org/hhalpin/homepage/notes/weekly-agenda.rdf2
16:12:45 <Zakim> working on it, HarryH
16:12:49 <Zakim> agenda+ Convene GRDDL WG meeting of 2007-03-07T11:00-0500
16:12:50 <Zakim> agendum 1 added
16:12:52 <Zakim> agenda+ Patent Policy
16:12:54 <Zakim> agendum 2 added
16:12:55 <Zakim> agenda+ Advocating
16:12:56 <Zakim> agendum 3 added
16:12:57 <Zakim> agenda+ Primer Document: Last Call?
16:12:58 <Zakim> agendum 4 added
16:12:59 <Zakim> agenda+ Use-Case Document: Going To Last Call?
16:13:01 <Zakim> agendum 5 added
16:13:02 <Zakim> agenda+ Test Cases as Rec?
16:13:03 <Zakim> agendum 6 added
16:13:04 <Zakim> agenda+ Misc Test-Cases nominated for approval
16:13:06 <Zakim> agendum 7 added
16:13:08 <Zakim> agenda+ tests for [#issue-mt-ns]
16:13:10 <Zakim> agendum 8 added
16:13:12 <Zakim> agenda+ tests for [#issue-faithful-infoset]
16:13:14 <Zakim> agendum 9 added
16:13:16 <Zakim> agenda+ tests for [#issue-base-param]
16:13:18 <Zakim> agendum 10 added
16:13:20 <Zakim> agenda+ GRDDL Spec: Last Call
16:13:22 <Zakim> agendum 11 added
16:13:24 <Zakim> done reading agenda, HarryH
16:13:42 <HarryH> Convene GRDDL WG Meeting of 2007-03-07
16:13:48 <HarryH> Chair: HarryH
16:13:56 <HarryH> Zakim, pick a scribe
16:13:56 <Zakim> Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose Simone
16:14:06 <HarryH> Zakim, pick a scribe
16:14:06 <Zakim> Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose Chimezie_Ogbuji
16:14:12 <HarryH> Zakim, pick a scribe
16:14:12 <Zakim> Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose Chimezie_Ogbuji
16:14:18 <HarryH> Zakim, pick a scribe
16:14:18 <Zakim> Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose briansuda
16:14:22 <briansuda> that is fine
16:14:28 <HarryH> Thanks BrianS
16:14:31 <HarryH> Scribe: BrianS
16:15:10 <HarryH> PROPOSED: to approve GRDDL WG Weekly -- 28 Feb 2007 as a true record
16:15:34 <HarryH> RESOLVED:  GRDDL WG Weekly -- 28 Feb 2007 as a true record
16:15:39 <HarryH> regrets: DanC
16:15:53 <HarryH> Zakim, pick a scribe
16:15:53 <Zakim> Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose Simone
16:16:03 <HarryH> Zakim, pick a scribe
16:16:03 <Zakim> Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose HarryH
16:16:07 <HarryH> Zakim, pick a scribe
16:16:07 <Zakim> Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose Simone
16:16:12 <HarryH> Zakim, pick a scribe
16:16:12 <Zakim> Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose briansuda
16:16:17 <HarryH> Zakim, pick a scribe
16:16:17 <Zakim> Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose Murray_Maloney
16:16:24 <HarryH> Zakim, pick a scribe
16:16:24 <Zakim> Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose briansuda
16:16:34 <HarryH> Chime to scribe next meeting.
16:16:38 <HarryH> Zakim, next item
16:16:38 <Zakim> agendum 1. "Convene GRDDL WG meeting of 2007-03-07T11:00-0500" taken up
16:16:41 <HarryH> Zakim, next item
16:16:41 <Zakim> agendum 1 was just opened, HarryH
16:16:45 <HarryH> Zakim, open item 2
16:16:45 <Zakim> agendum 2. "Patent Policy" taken up
16:17:07 <HarryH> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-grddl-wg/2007Mar/0021.html
16:17:24 <briansuda> Harry, everyone needs to fillout the form from Ian
16:18:22 <HarryH> Zakim, next item
16:18:22 <Zakim> agendum 1. "Convene GRDDL WG meeting of 2007-03-07T11:00-0500" taken up
16:18:30 <HarryH> Zakim, open item 3
16:18:30 <Zakim> agendum 3. "Advocating" taken up
16:19:18 <briansuda> Murry, the form is for AC not members?
16:20:06 <HarryH> BrianS?
16:20:11 <briansuda> i/m here
16:20:21 <HarryH> Do you want me to demute you?
16:20:24 <HarryH> Or just type in IRC?
16:20:25 <briansuda> i can here you
16:20:28 <briansuda> hear
16:20:49 <briansuda> i emailed the list,
16:20:57 <briansuda> i also got Operator to support some GRDDL
16:20:58 <briansuda> yes
16:21:00 <briansuda> MF list
16:21:05 <briansuda> nothing more at the moment
16:21:43 <briansuda> Harry, other advocacy ideas? popular XML dialects
16:22:29 <briansuda> Danny, working to get Profile URIs out there
16:22:51 <briansuda> indifference in getting them setup from the MF list
16:23:11 <briansuda> the XMDPs need to mint a good profile URI
16:23:31 <john-l> Technical question: what happens when microformats and GRDDL interpret a document's content in conflicting ways?
16:23:40 <briansuda> lack of profile URI doesn't seem to be a problem
16:23:56 <briansuda> danny, create some bad formats
16:24:46 <briansuda> danny, XFN has profile, but probably not GRDDLed
16:25:32 <HarryH> ACTION: Danja to update the ESW wiki to have list of profile URIs and a sort of check-box for which ones are GRDDL-enabled or not.
16:25:49 <danja> http://dannyayers.com/misc/microformats/soupdragon
16:26:01 <briansuda> Danny, created a test case to find issues
16:26:05 <HarryH> Zakim, next item
16:26:05 <Zakim> agendum 1. "Convene GRDDL WG meeting of 2007-03-07T11:00-0500" taken up
16:26:08 <HarryH> Zakim, next item
16:26:08 <Zakim> agendum 1 was just opened, HarryH
16:26:17 <HarryH> Zakim, open item 4
16:26:17 <Zakim> agendum 4. "Primer Document: Last Call?" taken up
16:26:36 <briansuda> Harry, primer document take-up
16:27:16 <briansuda> Murry, can give it a solid review
16:27:28 <briansuda> Harry, is looking for a co-editor on the Primer
16:27:38 <briansuda> jeremy, can review it as well
16:27:57 <briansuda> harry, needs to push the changes to the primer
16:29:01 <briansuda> harry, people think the primer should go rec track? needs reviewer and an editorial changes
16:29:22 <HarryH> ACTION: Jeremy and Murray to review Primer after HarryH's adds in changs
16:29:29 <HarryH> Zakim, open item 5
16:29:29 <Zakim> agendum 5. "Use-Case Document: Going To Last Call?" taken up
16:29:35 <HarryH> Zakim, opn item 6
16:29:35 <Zakim> I don't understand 'opn item 6', HarryH
16:29:41 <HarryH> Zakim, open item 6
16:29:41 <Zakim> agendum 6. "Test Cases as Rec?" taken up
16:30:20 <briansuda> harry, should the test cases go to rec?
16:30:30 <HarryH> Chime to edit the Test Cases.
16:30:31 <briansuda> there is questions about normative, versus others
16:30:47 <briansuda> help from jeremy?
16:30:56 <john-l> q+
16:30:57 <briansuda> jeremy, i can help, but not co-edit
16:31:05 <HarryH> ack john-l
16:31:19 <briansuda> John, i can help test cases documents
16:31:25 <HarryH> Chime is definitely editor of doc.
16:32:12 <briansuda> Chime, order test cases, by normitive
16:32:29 <briansuda> harry, base-param is normative
16:32:41 <jjc> q+ to mention OWL test approval process
16:33:01 <HarryH> ack jjc
16:33:01 <Zakim> jjc, you wanted to mention OWL test approval process
16:33:12 <briansuda> chime, can order them himself,. no need to do this now
16:33:31 <briansuda> John, on the OWL list got approved if two tests passed it
16:33:49 <briansuda> approval by software, only objections we discussed
16:33:49 <john-l> s/John/Jeremy/
16:34:12 <jjc> s/two tests/two implementations/
16:34:44 <briansuda> chime, good coverage by implementation
16:35:21 <danja> Zakim, mute me
16:35:21 <Zakim> danja should now be muted
16:35:22 <briansuda> Jeremy, pending tests for a long time, until implementations caught-up. Then tests got approved quickly
16:36:36 <briansuda> chime, do test cases cover all the issues
16:36:50 <briansuda> jeremy, needs more work on the schema profile
16:37:25 <HarryH> Using EARL to generate HTMl from implementations.
16:37:51 <briansuda> harry, this helps to show which tests pass, etc
16:39:50 <briansuda> Harry, for next week, which tests exist and which don't
16:41:07 <HarryH> ACTION: Chime to take pending tests for approval from agenda and see if at least 2 implementations pass them.
16:41:27 <HarryH> Zakim, opem item 11
16:41:27 <Zakim> I don't understand 'opem item 11', HarryH
16:41:32 <HarryH> Zakim, open item 11
16:41:32 <Zakim> agendum 11. "GRDDL Spec: Last Call" taken up
16:41:49 <HarryH> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-grddl-wg/2007Feb/0212.html
16:42:29 <briansuda> Harry, discussion about rel="transformation" issues when multiple values
16:42:50 <briansuda> Murry, sees the text as just fine... others mis-read it
16:43:31 <briansuda> Murry, sent some words to fix this normative issues
16:44:16 <HarryH> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-grddl-wg/2007Mar/0015.html
16:45:06 <briansuda> Harry, security issuses from multiple people
16:45:20 <HarryH> ACTION: Murray to resolve potential ambiguity with multiple values in transformations.
16:45:33 <briansuda> Jeremy, nothing new from Last Call....
16:46:11 <briansuda> adding texts to specs, so implementations can reference the spec in dangerous places
16:46:41 <briansuda> end users take the risks, but only after we give/list those risks
16:47:29 <briansuda> Harry, hard to document zero results as ok?
16:48:23 <briansuda> Harry, GRDDL agent can not produce no results based on local policy
16:48:25 <jjc> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-grddl-wg/2007Mar/0037
16:48:29 <briansuda> and still pass the tests
16:48:38 <briansuda> Murry, can't pass the tests if there was no result
16:48:56 <briansuda> Jeremy, a conforming GRDDL agent that produces nothing, is worthless
16:49:03 <briansuda> non-issue
16:49:43 <briansuda> Chime, conformance label requires GRDDL agents to produce a reult
16:50:16 <briansuda> Chime, if we are pushing conformance, then we should remove the ambiguity
16:50:54 <briansuda> Harry, GRDDL agent can alter local policy to produce results, or test cases go normative and then you need results
16:51:21 <chimezie> I prefer we have a rec track test document without scenarios where there are no results
16:51:30 <briansuda> Jeremy, doesn't think this should be a worry. Reality, people may or may not use the label ....
16:52:16 <briansuda> mis-use of the label doesn't get them sued, so what is the benefit of labeling....
16:53:31 <briansuda> Jeremy, requiring a GRDDL agent to set secuirty policy to none
16:54:02 <briansuda> Harry, add that to the test case, so all agents must turn off secuirty policy before running tests.
16:55:17 <briansuda> Murry, useful to have a paragraph which describes how to set the secuirty to match output
16:56:06 <Zakim> -Murray_Maloney
16:56:16 <john-l> s/Murry/Murray/
16:56:31 <HarryH> ACTION: Chime adding sentence to Test Case Doc specifying that local security policy must be set to none before running tests
16:57:07 <briansuda> Harry, emails and comments about Javascript developers
16:57:11 <HarryH> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-grddl-comments/2007JanMar/0068.html
16:57:20 <briansuda> ... for javascript developers
16:57:21 <john-l> ... and basically any other language besides XSLT
16:57:29 <briansuda> he wanted more guidance
16:57:52 <briansuda> Chime, his concerns were about non-normative texts
16:58:57 <briansuda> ... be more specific about which languages supported
16:59:12 <briansuda> ... there is reply to his comments in the archives
16:59:26 <HarryH> HarryH has joined #grddl-wg
17:00:03 <danja> Zakim, unmute me
17:00:03 <Zakim> danja should no longer be muted
17:00:04 <briansuda> impossible to implement a transform with JUST javascript
17:00:59 <briansuda> Chime, the output format issue language gave explicit examples with XSLTs
17:01:17 <briansuda> Danny, thinks it is impossible to implement directly in Javascript
17:01:43 <briansuda> ... seperate document which describes how it should be done
17:01:53 <briansuda> ... redirection, similar to the profiles
17:01:59 <chimezie> 1) Sections following normative sections seemed to suggest the spec covered non-XSLT scenarios, but they don't 2) The output of transforms should either be only RDF/XML or at least associated with a mime-type
17:02:20 <chimezie> s/following/preceeding
17:02:21 <briansuda> Danny, just leave it as it is
17:03:54 <briansuda> Harry, continue dialog with stefano, and get feedback
17:04:04 <danja> my latest blog comment on the matter - http://dannyayers.com/2007/03/03/grddl-and-language-neutrality
17:04:35 <briansuda> Harry, it was underspecifed by RDFa, you can output as HTML/RDFa, JSON, etc
17:04:51 <briansuda> ... need more experience with non-XSLT
17:05:05 <chimezie> we would be faced with the same issue that XProc would if they attempted to accomodate non-workflow-oriented components in an XML Pipeline
17:05:39 <briansuda> Jeremy, XSLT2 implementations as well
17:05:46 <danja> chimezie, couldn't an XML pipeline include a Javascript component?
17:06:46 <briansuda> Chime, for a time we tried to specific a mimeType comming out
17:07:48 <briansuda> Danny., N3 output example, spec was silent on the final representation
17:08:17 <briansuda> Chime, greenboxes only refer to RDF-XML as output
17:10:10 <briansuda> Harry, i was to be an RDF graph not just RDF-XML
17:10:15 <briansuda> as output
17:10:53 <briansuda> ... rules in the spec that go against the WG decisions
17:12:13 <briansuda> ... informative text to say the Graph can be RDF-XML, N3, etc
17:12:50 <chimezie> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-grddl-wg/2007Mar/0022.html
17:13:04 <chimezie> is the suggested change to accomodate mime-type-based parsing
17:13:27 <HarryH> ACTION: To deal with suggested changes for mime-type based parsing and RDF/XML issues in spec.
17:14:04 <briansuda> Jeremy, go through a couple quick tests?
17:14:17 <briansuda> ... content-negotiation on language and mime-type
17:14:36 <briansuda> is the merge of those two results correct?
17:15:19 <chimezie> I agree
17:16:02 <briansuda> ... get all the representations and merge ALL the results? the spec is more about get one rep based on your preferences
17:16:09 <Zakim> -Chimezie_Ogbuji
17:17:06 <HarryH> ACTION: HarryH to update #langconneg test-case to deal with merge from different representations
17:17:34 <briansuda> Jeremy, SVG test has a similar issue
17:19:12 <HarryH> Meeting adjourned
17:19:20 <Zakim> -danja
17:19:22 <HarryH> rrsagent, draft minutes
17:19:22 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/03/07-grddl-wg-minutes.html HarryH
17:19:23 <briansuda> AJOURNED
17:19:26 <Zakim> -john-l
17:19:29 <HarryH> rrsagent, draft minutes
17:19:29 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/03/07-grddl-wg-minutes.html HarryH
17:19:34 <Zakim> -Simone
17:19:39 <Zakim> -HarryH
17:19:42 <Zakim> -jjc
17:19:51 <Zakim> -briansuda
17:19:53 <Zakim> SW_GRDDL()11:00AM has ended
17:19:55 <Zakim> Attendees were HarryH, danja, john-l, Chimezie_Ogbuji, briansuda, Murray_Maloney, Simone, +0127368aaaa, jjc
17:20:04 <briansuda> rrsagent, draft minutes
17:20:04 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/03/07-grddl-wg-minutes.html briansuda
17:30:18 <briansuda> rrsagent, publish minuntes
17:30:18 <RRSAgent> I'm logging. I don't understand 'publish minuntes', briansuda.  Try /msg RRSAgent help
17:30:34 <briansuda> rrsagent, publish the minutes
17:30:34 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/03/07-grddl-wg-minutes.html briansuda
17:31:05 <briansuda> rrsagent, create minutes
17:31:05 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/03/07-grddl-wg-minutes.html briansuda
17:32:18 <briansuda> rrsagnet set logs world-visible
17:32:25 <briansuda> rrsagnet, set logs world-visible
17:32:34 <briansuda> rrsagent set logs world-visible
17:32:45 <briansuda> rrsagent, set logs world-visible
17:33:36 <briansuda> rrsagent, create minutes
17:33:36 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/03/07-grddl-wg-minutes.html briansuda
17:34:52 <briansuda> rrsagent, draft minutes
17:34:52 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/03/07-grddl-wg-minutes.html briansuda
17:52:42 <danja> danja has joined #grddl-wg