IRC log of htmltf on 2007-02-12

Timestamps are in UTC.

13:59:51 [RRSAgent]

RRSAgent has joined #htmltf

13:59:51 [RRSAgent]

logging to http://www.w3.org/2007/02/12-htmltf-irc

14:00:00 [mhausenblas]

zakim, aaaa is mhausenblas

14:00:01 [Zakim]

+mhausenblas; got it

14:00:07 [Steven]

Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2007Feb/0042

14:00:20 [Steven]

Steven has changed the topic to: Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2007Feb/0042

14:00:32 [Steven]

zakim, dial steven-617

14:00:34 [Zakim]

ok, Steven; the call is being made

14:00:36 [Zakim]

+Steven

14:00:49 [Steven]

zakim, who is here?

14:00:49 [Zakim]

On the phone I see mhausenblas, wing, Ben_Adida, Steven

14:00:50 [Zakim]

On IRC I see RRSAgent, wing, MarkB_, benadida, Steven, Zakim, RalphS, mhausenblas

14:01:18 [Steven]

zakim,who is on the call?

14:01:18 [Zakim]

On the phone I see mhausenblas, wing, Ben_Adida, Steven

14:01:33 [Steven]

missing ? mhausenblas

14:02:06 [Zakim]

+Elias_Torres

14:02:11 [Zakim]

+Ralph

14:02:26 [EliasT]

EliasT has joined #htmltf

14:02:35 [Zakim]

+??P26

14:02:38 [MarkB_]

zakim i am ?

14:02:45 [RalphS]

Steven: suggest we move to irc channel #rdfa

14:02:48 [RalphS]

Ralph: =1

14:02:56 [EliasT]

Zakim, who's on the phone?

14:02:56 [Zakim]

On the phone I see mhausenblas, wing, Ben_Adida, Steven, Elias_Torres, Ralph, ??P26

14:02:57 [RalphS]

Ralph: +1

14:03:00 [mhausenblas]

+1

14:03:04 [EliasT]

Zakim, Elias_Torres is me

14:03:04 [Zakim]

+EliasT; got it

14:03:08 [wing]

+1

14:03:19 [Steven]

Meeting: RDFa Taskforce weekly teleconference

14:03:26 [Steven]

Chair: Ben

14:03:42 [Steven]

zakim, code?

14:03:42 [Zakim]

the conference code is 7927 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), Steven

14:04:10 [MarkB_]

7332?

14:04:23 [mhausenblas]

+1

14:04:28 [Steven]

RESOLUTION: Take the call to irc channel #rdfa next week

14:04:45 [RalphS]

RESOLVED: telecon name, code, and irc channel will be RDFA starting next week

14:04:47 [Steven]

RESOLUTION: Change the zakim code to rdfa (7332)

14:04:55 [Steven]

oh

14:04:59 [RalphS]

q+ to note US holiday on 19 Feb

14:05:26 [RalphS]

q+ to note US holiday on Steven's birthday

14:05:31 [Steven]

lol

14:06:17 [RalphS]

Previous: 2007-02-05 http://www.w3.org/2007/02/05-htmltf-minutes.html

14:06:26 [Steven]

scribe?

14:07:07 [EliasT]

Zakim, pick a victim

14:07:07 [Zakim]

Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose ??P26

14:07:27 [RalphS]

zakim, who's on the call?

14:07:27 [Zakim]

On the phone I see mhausenblas, wing, Ben_Adida, Steven, EliasT, Ralph, ??P26

14:07:33 [EliasT]

Zakim, ??P26 is MarkB_

14:07:33 [Zakim]

+MarkB_; got it

14:07:36 [RalphS]

zakim, ??p26 is Mark

14:07:36 [Zakim]

I already had ??P26 as MarkB_, RalphS

14:07:39 [EliasT]

Scribe: MarkB_

14:07:50 [Zakim]

-wing

14:07:53 [wing]

whoops

14:07:55 [wing]

sorry

14:08:20 [Zakim]

+[IBMCambridge]

14:08:27 [wing]

zakim, IBMCambridge is wing

14:08:27 [Zakim]

+wing; got it

14:09:04 [MarkB_]

All welcomed Wing on board, and he told us a little about his work with RDFa at IBM.

14:11:14 [MarkB_]

Ben: introduced the agenda, and asked if there were any other items.

14:11:33 [mhausenblas]

-> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swd-wg/2007Feb/0049.html

14:11:59 [MarkB_]

Michael: Discussion on list about using RDFa, or eRDF within XHTML.

14:12:17 [MarkB_]

Ben: Would like to get 'the module' finished and then take it from there.

14:12:38 [benadida]

action item review: http://www.w3.org/2007/02/05-htmltf-minutes.html#ActionSummary

14:13:24 [MarkB_]

Topic: Action item agenda

14:13:43 [EliasT]

.. /MarkB is now known as Topic.

14:14:06 [MarkB_]

s/item agenda/item list/

14:15:18 [MarkB_]

Ben continues to contemplate the Dev Track, and in particular is looking at the RDFa clipboard use-case.

14:15:43 [benadida]

ACTION: Ben to contemplate about the Dev Track [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/02/05-htmltf-minutes.html#action01]

14:15:49 [benadida]

--continues

14:16:45 [MarkB_]

ACTION: Ben to get in contact with flickr w.r.t. machine tags

14:16:55 [MarkB_]

--done

14:17:15 [MarkB_]

CC are already in touch with Flickr, and there is discussion of using RDFa in their pages.

14:17:16 [EliasT]

Zakim, please mute me

14:17:16 [Zakim]

EliasT should now be muted

14:17:26 [MarkB_]

Discussion of static muted the loud applause!!!

14:18:01 [RalphS]

indeed, YAY! to CC on Flickr

14:18:31 [mhausenblas_]

mhausenblas_ has joined #htmltf

14:18:47 [MarkB_]

ACTION: Michael produce a GUI sketch of a test interface for 12-Feb meeting

14:18:51 [MarkB_]

--done

14:18:54 [mhausenblas_]

http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/RDFa/testsuite/

14:19:03 [Steven]

rdfa.info is up

14:20:25 [MarkB_]

Michael: Not sure if W3C could host this. Is Tomcat available?

14:20:37 [MarkB_]

Ralph: I think Tomcat is available...will check.

14:20:58 [MarkB_]

ACTION: Ralph to check if the test suite can be hosted at the W3C--is Tomcat available?

14:21:25 [MarkB_]

ACTION: Ben to update RDFa schedule on wiki to aim for last call on June 1

14:21:33 [MarkB_]

--continues

14:21:54 [MarkB_]

ACTION: Mark to put M12N schema up somewhere, and tell us where

14:22:00 [MarkB_]

--continues

14:22:20 [MarkB_]

ACTION: Steven to put together sample XHTML2 doc with all mime type, etc.

14:22:27 [MarkB_]

Ben: Should this be removed?

14:22:41 [MarkB_]

Steven: Don't mind. Do you want it prioritised?

14:23:15 [MarkB_]

Ben: Could leave it there, but shortly we'll need an XHTML 1.1+RDFa document, which will become higher priority.

14:23:22 [MarkB_]

--continues

14:23:38 [MarkB_]

ACTION: Ben start a list of RDF/XML features that are not supported by RDFa

14:23:47 [MarkB_]

--continues

14:24:19 [MarkB_]

Ben: I'm not an RDF/XML expert.

14:24:25 [MarkB_]

Michael: I'll help.

14:24:34 [benadida]

ACTION: Michael to prepare RDF/XML - RDFa comparison wiki page

14:24:38 [mhausenblas_]

http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/wiki/RDFaTerminology

14:26:11 [MarkB_]

ACTION: Ben to look into Science Commons use case

14:26:16 [MarkB_]

--continues

14:26:33 [RalphS]

rrsagent, please make record public

14:26:59 [MarkB_]

Ben: Coming together. Looking like there might be a scientific publication scenario; "this paper talks about these genes", etc., ...

14:27:09 [MarkB_]

...rather than just this paper was published on.

14:27:14 [mhausenblas_]

http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/wiki/RDFaGRDDL

14:27:25 [MarkB_]

s/this paper/"this paper/

14:27:32 [MarkB_]

s/on./on"./

14:27:37 [EliasT]

Zakim, unmute me

14:27:37 [Zakim]

EliasT should no longer be muted

14:27:38 [RalphS]

-> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2007Feb/0019.html Relationship between RDFa and GRDDL [Ben 2007-02-06]

14:27:40 [MarkB_]

ACTION: Ben to write down the relation between GRDDL and RDFa

14:27:43 [MarkB_]

--done

14:28:07 [MarkB_]

ACTION: Elias to send email to list with use case from IBM

14:28:09 [MarkB_]

--continues

14:28:35 [EliasT]

Zakim, mute me

14:28:35 [Zakim]

EliasT should now be muted

14:28:36 [MarkB_]

Elias: Needs to check whether he'll still be involved in the product in question, but should be resolved soon.

14:28:45 [MarkB_]

ACTION: Mark produce more examples of applicability of n-ary relations from IPTC documents

14:28:48 [MarkB_]

--continues

14:29:03 [MarkB_]

ACTION: Mark produce RDFa XHTML 1.1 module and spec

14:29:07 [MarkB_]

--continues

14:29:29 [MarkB_]

ACTION: Michael continue work on the FAQ template that Elias started

14:29:33 [MarkB_]

--continues

14:30:14 [EliasT]

Zakim, unmute me

14:30:14 [Zakim]

EliasT should no longer be muted

14:30:17 [MarkB_]

Michael: Hopes that Elias didn't mind that he took that action on during Elias's absence.

14:30:28 [MarkB_]

Elias: Has it been moved to the wiki?

14:31:11 [mhausenblas_]

->http://esw.w3.org/topic/RDFa

14:31:16 [MarkB_]

Michael: No. I proposed that it should be moved, but seems to make sense to leave it on the esw wiki.

14:33:23 [MarkB_]

ACTION: Michael transfer issue data to SWD tracker

14:33:29 [MarkB_]

--done

14:33:31 [mhausenblas_]

http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/track/issues/13

14:34:06 [benadida]

Topic: XHTML 1.1 Module Status

14:34:19 [MarkB_]

http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/Group/2007/WD-xhtml-modularization-20070209/

14:34:25 [mhausenblas_]

zakim, mute me

14:34:25 [Zakim]

sorry, mhausenblas_, I do not know which phone connection belongs to you

14:34:39 [EliasT]

Zakim, mute me

14:34:41 [benadida]

MarkB: first needed an update to the modularization spec, pointed to here (but not public)

14:34:42 [Zakim]

EliasT should now be muted

14:34:47 [MarkB_]

http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/Group/2007/WD-xhtml11-20070208/

14:34:47 [mhausenblas_]

zakim, mhausenblas_ really is mhausenblas

14:34:48 [Zakim]

I don't understand 'mhausenblas_ really is mhausenblas', mhausenblas_

14:35:06 [benadida]

... then we needed XHTML 1.1 using modularization, which just came out.

14:35:07 [benadida]

.

14:35:29 [Steven]

zakim,mute mh

14:35:29 [Zakim]

mhausenblas should now be muted

14:35:36 [benadida]

... now we need to create the RDFa module based on these updated specs

14:36:04 [benadida]

... still missing from Shane the draft specs of the module itself

14:36:09 [benadida]

... schemas to be posted on Wednesday

14:36:37 [benadida]

... email to SWD mailing list talks about DTDs

14:36:45 [benadida]

... we may get help from Shane on that front

14:37:12 [benadida]

Ralph: expected schedule for these drafts?

14:37:49 [benadida]

Steven: within a week to request pub as WD

14:38:59 [mhausenblas_]

from WD to REC directly ?

14:39:19 [benadida]

... nothing has changed except typos and addition of schemas. Go to PR, no normative changes.

14:39:43 [benadida]

MarkB: RDFa module that Shane is doing at the moment should only need to reference the modularization spec, the one that will move very quickly.

14:40:03 [benadida]

... the second spec is only useful as a template for linking, not as a reference.

14:40:49 [benadida]

... the most important thing is not XHTML1.1 + RDFa, it's just the RDFa bit.

14:41:43 [benadida]

... delay because this is first example of a module that uses the modularization spec

14:41:51 [benadida]

... and external module

14:42:48 [mhausenblas_]

zakim, unmute mh

14:42:48 [Zakim]

mhausenblas should no longer be muted

14:43:29 [MarkB_]

Mark: Did anyone have any comments on the point about DTDs?

14:43:47 [MarkB_]

Steven: it is a freak of nature that DTDs can even get close to what we want.

14:44:23 [MarkB_]

Steven: (Based mainly on wizardry from [Steven to insert name].)

14:44:36 [MarkB_]

Ben: Is this some problem with IE?

14:45:03 [MarkB_]

Steven: No, it's to do with validation by those that only use DTDs.

14:45:05 [mhausenblas_]

might be a dumb question, but isn XHTML (note: X) defined in terms of XML-Schema?

14:45:22 [MarkB_]

Ben: So is there a hurry?

14:45:42 [MarkB_]

Steven: No..it's only if someone says that they *must* validate using DTDs.

14:46:19 [MarkB_]

Steven: Should flag up that the DOCTYPE switch is often used in documents to set standards compliant mode.

14:46:20 [RalphS]

s/[Steven to insert name]/Murray Altheim and his amazing DTD skills/

14:48:03 [RalphS]

Mark: was the request in mail an expression of a requirement for DTD validation?

14:48:18 [mhausenblas_]

q+ on status of Simone's question

14:48:36 [RalphS]

Ben: not sure if it was meant as a requirement

14:48:40 [mhausenblas_]

q+ to comment on Simone's status

14:48:47 [MarkB_]

Mark: But need to establish whether the request on the list is a *must* for DTDs, or were they simply asking for validation.

14:48:55 [RalphS]

Ben: ... or merely a request, so that W3C validators can work

14:49:45 [MarkB_]

Michael: Should answer Simone.

14:49:50 [MarkB_]

Ben: We will.

14:50:03 [RalphS]

-> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swd-wg/2007Feb/0049.html an XHTML Module for RDFa Simone Onofri [2007-02-12]

14:50:36 [wing]

http://code.wingerz.com/rdfatests/

14:50:40 [benadida]

(Mark, I'll take over for any wrapup)

14:50:41 [wing]

http://code.wingerz.com/rdfatests/coverage.txt

14:50:53 [RalphS]

Topic: Test Case Update

14:50:57 [MarkB_]

:)

14:51:14 [MarkB_]

Wing: Explained what they had done with the test-suite.

14:51:42 [RalphS]

kudos to Win for test case work!

14:51:47 [RalphS]

s/Win/Wing/

14:52:01 [mhausenblas_]

http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/wiki/RDFaTestsuite

14:52:12 [RalphS]

kudos to Wing and Michael for test case work!

14:52:32 [MarkB_]

Michael: Will continue to extend what's in the wiki page.

14:52:36 [mhausenblas_]

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2007Feb/0027.html

14:53:15 [MarkB_]

Michael: Would like some feedback on my posts in the list. True that we want to keep it simple, but we do want to get it correct.

14:54:02 [MarkB_]

Steven: Regarding section 2.2.2, about what needs to conform; is that not the same question about what is that we're testing?

14:54:12 [MarkB_]

...My feeling is that we're testing the spec.

14:54:14 [mhausenblas_]

http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/RDFa/testsuite/

14:54:40 [MarkB_]

This looks at whether a REST-based extra service is conformant to the specification.

14:55:05 [MarkB_]

s/This looks/Michael: This looks/

14:55:37 [MarkB_]

Steven: Should say that this tests the specification, and not some implementation.

14:55:59 [MarkB_]

Ben: Not sure exactly what this means.

14:56:40 [MarkB_]

Steven: If there is some constraint in the spec then it must be reflected in the test-suite.

14:57:26 [MarkB_]

...Need two implementations, to prove that it was implementable.

14:57:43 [RalphS]

[I agree with Steven's characterization of testing]

14:58:17 [mhausenblas_]

-> http://www.w3.org/2005/10/Process-20051014/tr.html#rec-advance

14:58:31 [Steven]

Scribe: Steven

14:58:41 [Steven]

Ben: Isn't this a human thing?

14:58:51 [Steven]

Steven: No, it relates to W3C process

14:59:02 [mhausenblas_]

see link above

14:59:19 [Steven]

... where you have to show the spec is implementable, and consistent

14:59:29 [Steven]

Topic: Next call

14:59:39 [Zakim]

-Ralph

14:59:43 [Steven]

Ben: Next Monday is a public holiday

14:59:46 [Zakim]

-EliasT

14:59:48 [Zakim]

-MarkB_

14:59:50 [Zakim]

-mhausenblas

14:59:52 [Zakim]

-wing

14:59:54 [mhausenblas_]

steven: got a minute?

14:59:55 [Steven]

... so I propose we postpone next week's call

14:59:59 [mhausenblas_]

+1

15:00:03 [RalphS]

zakim, list participants

15:00:03 [Zakim]

As of this point the attendees have been +043316876aaaa, Ben_Adida, wing, mhausenblas, Steven, Ralph, EliasT, MarkB_

15:00:07 [wing]

wing has left #htmltf

15:00:19 [Steven]

Yes, Michael, I have a minute

15:00:24 [Steven]

rrsagent, make minutes

15:00:24 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/02/12-htmltf-minutes.html Steven

15:00:33 [mhausenblas_]

zakim, aaaa is Michael Hausenblas

15:00:33 [Zakim]

I don't understand 'aaaa is Michael Hausenblas', mhausenblas_

15:00:56 [mhausenblas_]

steven: should we continue the testing discussion on the mailing list?

15:01:11 [mhausenblas_]

... I am really after that and trying to understand everything

15:01:23 [mhausenblas_]

hoped Karl Dubost would jump in

15:01:31 [Zakim]

-Ben_Adida

15:01:33 [Zakim]

-Steven

15:01:34 [Zakim]

SW_SWD(rdfxhtml)9:00AM has ended

15:01:35 [Zakim]

Attendees were +043316876aaaa, Ben_Adida, wing, mhausenblas, Steven, Ralph, EliasT, MarkB_

15:01:48 [mhausenblas_]

cf also http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2007Feb/0033.html

15:01:48 [benadida]

hey Michael, did you drop off the call?

15:01:51 [Steven]

Suits me if we do it on the mailing list

15:01:54 [mhausenblas_]

sorry?

15:02:03 [mhausenblas_]

drop off the call?

15:02:12 [Steven]

Sorry that I dsidn't reply; I suppose I didn;t feel the questions were addressed to me

15:02:18 [Steven]

I'll do better next time

15:02:27 [benadida]

we just got confused because Steven and I were still on the call but you weren't.

15:02:32 [benadida]

then we noticed you were writing in IRC :)

15:02:51 [Steven]

did you want to dial in again michael?

15:02:52 [mhausenblas_]

oh sorry, I thought we already finished, as all left ...

15:03:24 [mhausenblas_]

should i dial in again? i can if you want me to ...

15:03:35 [Steven]

not unless you have a question to me

15:03:55 [benadida]

no, it's okay, let's continue the testing discussion online and next time

15:04:02 [Steven]

ok

15:04:04 [benadida]

(and also answer your questions)

15:04:06 [mhausenblas_]

ok

15:04:09 [mhausenblas_]

:)

15:04:11 [benadida]

(Michael's questions)

15:04:14 [mhausenblas_]

:))

15:04:34 [mhausenblas_]

happy brithday again and hear you in two weeks!

15:04:54 [benadida]

talk to you soon

15:04:55 [benadida]

benadida has left #htmltf

15:06:30 [mhausenblas_]

bye everyone ...

15:08:09 [MarkB_]

MarkB_ has joined #htmltf

15:15:42 [EliasT]

EliasT has left #htmltf

17:20:24 [Zakim]

Zakim has left #htmltf

18:50:47 [RalphS]

rrsagent, bye

18:50:47 [RRSAgent]

I see 16 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2007/02/12-htmltf-actions.rdf :

18:50:47 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: Ben to contemplate about the Dev Track [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/02/05-htmltf-minutes.html#action01] [1]

18:50:47 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/02/12-htmltf-irc#T14-15-43

18:50:47 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: Ben to get in contact with flickr w.r.t. machine tags [2]

18:50:47 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/02/12-htmltf-irc#T14-16-45

18:50:47 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: Michael produce a GUI sketch of a test interface for 12-Feb meeting [3]

18:50:47 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/02/12-htmltf-irc#T14-18-47

18:50:47 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: Ralph to check if the test suite can be hosted at the W3C--is Tomcat available? [4]

18:50:47 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/02/12-htmltf-irc#T14-20-58

18:50:47 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: Ben to update RDFa schedule on wiki to aim for last call on June 1 [5]

18:50:47 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/02/12-htmltf-irc#T14-21-25

18:50:47 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: Mark to put M12N schema up somewhere, and tell us where [6]

18:50:47 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/02/12-htmltf-irc#T14-21-54

18:50:47 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: Steven to put together sample XHTML2 doc with all mime type, etc. [7]

18:50:47 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/02/12-htmltf-irc#T14-22-20

18:50:47 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: Ben start a list of RDF/XML features that are not supported by RDFa [8]

18:50:47 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/02/12-htmltf-irc#T14-23-38

18:50:47 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: Michael to prepare RDF/XML - RDFa comparison wiki page [9]

18:50:47 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/02/12-htmltf-irc#T14-24-34

18:50:47 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: Ben to look into Science Commons use case [10]

18:50:47 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/02/12-htmltf-irc#T14-26-11

18:50:47 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: Ben to write down the relation between GRDDL and RDFa [11]

18:50:47 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/02/12-htmltf-irc#T14-27-40

18:50:47 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: Elias to send email to list with use case from IBM [12]

18:50:47 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/02/12-htmltf-irc#T14-28-07

18:50:47 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: Mark produce more examples of applicability of n-ary relations from IPTC documents [13]

18:50:47 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/02/12-htmltf-irc#T14-28-45

18:50:47 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: Mark produce RDFa XHTML 1.1 module and spec [14]

18:50:47 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/02/12-htmltf-irc#T14-29-03

18:50:47 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: Michael continue work on the FAQ template that Elias started [15]

18:50:47 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/02/12-htmltf-irc#T14-29-29

18:50:47 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: Michael transfer issue data to SWD tracker [16]

18:50:47 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/02/12-htmltf-irc#T14-33-23