14:57:15 ... this says that a person is of type 'notice'
14:57:30 ... based on that we talked about two possible fixes
14:57:40 ... 1) not @class but @type
14:58:23 ... which I don't like
14:58:40 ... 2) Only consider classes that have a prefix
14:58:47 ... which I like more
14:59:24 what is about class=":Person" then ?
14:59:43 q+
14:59:53 ... there is also a similar ul/ol problem
15:00:10 Ralph: Unfortunately we didn't make a copy of the whiteboard
15:00:36 ... Tim was distinguish between real DOM nodes and 'virtual' RDF nodes
15:00:47 s/ish/ishing/
15:01:09 ... and trying to understand which crossed over between the two
15:01:44 ... so there were two questions, one the many triples problem, and Ben tried to argue that the triples were really there
15:02:10 ... but the resolution was that they may not be incorrect, but they are unexpected, and therefore noise
15:03:17 ... In the context of lists (I hope Ben will write this up) that lists will only generate triples when there is an explicit subject
15:03:44 Ben: uls/ols must have an explicit subject, not bnodes linking to bnodes
15:04:07 ... this is a garbage collection problem
15:04:49 Ralph: Tim added a little bit of RDFa to a page, and ran it through the bookmarklet, and was looking for what he expected, and it was there, but hard to find
15:05:12 ack mark
15:05:27 Mark: I'm wary about changing the syntax to cope with these things
15:05:38 ... there is a difference between authoring and consuming the triples
15:06:36 q+ to support Mark with concuming issue
15:06:37 ... and having extra rules to prevent triples needs to be solved at the consuming level. I'm worried we will be blocking potential use cases
15:07:04 ... If I use rel='stylesheet'. That is a real triple, even if the author hadn't intended it
15:07:23 ... we must distinguish between authoring and consuming
15:07:38 ... and not block potentially useful information
15:07:58 ... I don't like the concept of 'reducing noise'.
15:08:11 Ben: The only syntax change proposed was related to @class
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15:09:52 Mark: we may want to add switches to select whether unprefixed class values generate triples
15:10:19 Scribenick: Steven_
15:10:24 RalphS, you wanted to note that the only syntax change that came out of the breakout concerns @class
15:10:46 Mark: The key thing is that some people use class as a presentation thing, and some as semantic
15:11:26 May I comment, please ...
15:11:39 Ralph: It is consistent to say that the triples using @class are really there, but many people don't mean them as such
15:12:04 ... so do all semantics present in an HTML doc deserve to be output as triples?
15:13:11 But my point is that even talking of 'being output' is wrong. It's a 'pull' not a 'push' approach.
15:13:22 ... there's also the issue of a node in the DOM tree representing a person
15:13:30 Mark: we need to resurrect that issue
15:13:37 mhausenblas, you wanted to support Mark with concuming issue
15:13:50 In brief, there is no way to refer to a DOM node. :)
15:14:19 Michael: I support Mark. The triples are really there, whether the author thought of them as such or not
15:14:34 ... the triples are for machines, not humans
15:15:07 Mark: So we are saying the opposite of microformats? :-) Put the machine first :-)
15:15:59 Ralph: We want to give a uniform semantics to HTML attributes, and we think that styling semantics are not against regular semantics
15:16:08 ... microformats does this after all.
15:16:26 ... But Tim says that microformats does not have consistent semantics for class
15:16:35 ... you have to interpret it in context
15:16:55 ... so it is different there
15:17:07 Mark: There are people who use class properly
15:18:33 Mark: But great work guys in getting Tim's attention, and writing RDFa
15:19:32 Topic: Wrap up
15:20:06 Ben: Michael, I wonder if you would coordinate the creation of test cases?
15:20:12 Michael: Sure!
15:20:29 Ben: I will champion the use case doc, and primer
15:20:40 ... Steven would you be willing to help with the syntax doc?
15:20:42 Steven: Sure
15:20:54 Ben: Next week we will attack some urgent issues
15:21:21 ACTION: Ben to put Michael and Wing in contact for test case production
15:21:56 Ralph: Is the Primer ready for tomorrow?
15:22:01 Ben: That's the goal
15:22:16 next meeting: 5 Feb
15:22:23 -MarkB_
15:22:25 -Michael_Hausenblas
15:22:25 -Ralph
15:22:27 ... next meeting same place, same time
15:22:29 -Ben_Adida
15:22:30 Adjourn
15:22:33 -Steven
15:22:35 SW_SWD(rdfxhtml)9:00AM has ended
15:22:36 Attendees were Michael_Hausenblas, Ben_Adida, Ralph, Steven, MarkB_
15:22:42 rrsagent, make minutes
15:22:42 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/01/29-htmltf-minutes.html Steven_
15:23:15 s/STeven/Steven/G
15:23:20 rrsagent, make minutes
15:23:20 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/01/29-htmltf-minutes.html Steven_
15:24:37 bye everyone ...
15:25:58 benadida has left #htmltf
15:38:45 I propose we meet in irc channel #rdfa in the future, to make the URL of the minutes more obvious
17:23:34 Zakim has left #htmltf