IRC log of swd on 2007-01-23
Timestamps are in UTC.
- 13:41:20 [RRSAgent]
- RRSAgent has joined #swd
- 13:41:20 [RRSAgent]
- logging to http://www.w3.org/2007/01/23-swd-irc
- 13:41:30 [RalphS]
- Meeting: SWD Boston Face-to-face, day 2
- 13:41:33 [RalphS]
- Chair: Guus
- 13:43:37 [RalphS]
- -> http://www.w3.org/2007/01/22-swd-minutes Day 1
- 13:44:57 [JonP_]
- JonP_ has joined #swd
- 13:51:18 [Zakim]
- SW_SWD(f2f)8:30AM has now started
- 13:51:26 [Zakim]
- +MeetingRoom
- 13:51:37 [RalphS]
- zakim, meetingroom has JonP, IvanHerman, Ralph
- 13:51:37 [Zakim]
- +JonP, IvanHerman, Ralph; got it
- 13:51:53 [Steven]
- Steven has joined #swd
- 13:52:05 [Zakim]
- +Michael_Hausenblas
- 13:55:19 [mhausenblas]
- zakim, mute me
- 13:55:19 [Zakim]
- sorry, mhausenblas, I do not know which phone connection belongs to you
- 13:55:47 [RalphS]
- zakim, nick mhausenblas is michael
- 13:55:47 [Zakim]
- ok, RalphS, I now associate mhausenblas with Michael_Hausenblas
- 13:56:07 [mhausenblas]
- zakim, mute me
- 13:56:07 [Zakim]
- Michael_Hausenblas should now be muted
- 13:56:27 [RalphS]
- zakim, meetingroom also has Antoine
- 13:56:27 [Zakim]
- +Antoine; got it
- 13:56:50 [RalphS]
- zakim, meetingroom also has Guus
- 13:56:50 [Zakim]
- +Guus; got it
- 13:58:45 [timbl]
- timbl has joined #swd
- 13:59:53 [Steven]
- zakim, dial steven-617
- 13:59:53 [Zakim]
- ok, Steven; the call is being made
- 13:59:56 [TomB]
- TomB has joined #swd
- 13:59:56 [Zakim]
- +Steven
- 14:00:00 [RalphS]
- zakim, meetingroom also has TimBL, Alistair
- 14:00:00 [Zakim]
- +TimBL, Alistair; got it
- 14:00:08 [RalphS]
- zakim, meetingroom also has Diego
- 14:00:08 [Zakim]
- +Diego; got it
- 14:00:42 [Zakim]
- +??P4
- 14:01:16 [Steven]
- zakim, drop steven
- 14:01:16 [Zakim]
- Steven is being disconnected
- 14:01:18 [Zakim]
- -Steven
- 14:01:23 [Steven]
- zakim, dial steven-617
- 14:01:23 [Zakim]
- ok, Steven; the call is being made
- 14:01:24 [Zakim]
- +Steven
- 14:02:32 [RalphS]
- zakim, meetingroom also has Ben
- 14:02:32 [Zakim]
- +Ben; got it
- 14:02:35 [Zakim]
- -Steven
- 14:02:35 [Antoine]
- Antoine has joined #swd
- 14:02:36 [MarkB_]
- MarkB_ has joined #swd
- 14:02:45 [Steven]
- zakim, dial steven-617
- 14:02:45 [Zakim]
- ok, Steven; the call is being made
- 14:02:46 [Zakim]
- +Steven
- 14:02:50 [Guus]
- Guus has joined #swd
- 14:03:00 [RalphS]
- rrsagent, please make record public
- 14:03:28 [MarkB_]
- Steven, with life generally?
- 14:03:57 [Zakim]
- -Steven
- 14:04:14 [Steven]
- well, that too
- 14:05:34 [Steven]
- zakim, dial steven-617
- 14:05:34 [Zakim]
- ok, Steven; the call is being made
- 14:05:36 [Zakim]
- +Steven
- 14:06:03 [Zakim]
- +Mark_Birbeck
- 14:06:16 [Steven]
- zakim, code?
- 14:06:16 [Zakim]
- the conference code is 79394 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), Steven
- 14:06:42 [Zakim]
- -TomB
- 14:06:47 [Zakim]
- -Steven
- 14:07:02 [Zakim]
- +Steven
- 14:07:11 [Steven]
- Ralph, I connected
- 14:07:38 [benadida]
- benadida has joined #SWD
- 14:07:52 [Steven]
- zakim, mute me
- 14:07:52 [Zakim]
- Steven should now be muted
- 14:08:16 [Steven]
- I dialled in instead
- 14:08:37 [aliman]
- aliman has joined #swd
- 14:10:07 [RalphS]
- zakim, meetingroom also has Kjetil
- 14:10:07 [Zakim]
- +Kjetil; got it
- 14:10:19 [RalphS]
- zakim, meetingroom also has Fabien
- 14:10:19 [Zakim]
- +Fabien; got it
- 14:11:01 [Antoine]
- scribenick:Antoine
- 14:11:31 [RalphS]
- Topic: RDFa
- 14:11:39 [Antoine]
- Guus: Ben proposed to start with use case doc
- 14:11:59 [Antoine]
- Ben: we are continueing work with RDFa syntax, primer and UC doc
- 14:12:07 [Antoine]
- ... compiling rdfa test cases
- 14:12:24 [Antoine]
- ... keep in mind that html wg is still under review
- 14:12:30 [Steven]
- Review ended last friday
- 14:12:41 [TomB]
- TomB has joined #swd
- 14:12:43 [berrueta]
- berrueta has joined #swd
- 14:13:00 [Antoine]
- ... we expect that the rdfa syntax can be adapted to every html syntax
- 14:13:11 [Antoine]
- ... adapting test cases etc
- 14:13:32 [Zakim]
- + +1.617.475.aaaa
- 14:13:35 [Antoine]
- Guus: overall schedule
- 14:13:50 [Antoine]
- Ben: push primer further with help with WG
- 14:14:13 [Antoine]
- and use case
- 14:14:14 [Zakim]
- - +1.617.475.aaaa
- 14:14:17 [Zakim]
- + +1.617.475.aabb
- 14:14:31 [Antoine]
- ... syntax and html module withing 6-8 weeks
- 14:14:35 [RalphS]
- zakim, aabb is TomB
- 14:14:35 [Zakim]
- +TomB; got it
- 14:15:01 [Antoine]
- Ivan: if it is record track, end of february would be for last call?
- 14:15:13 [Antoine]
- Ben: no. That was not the idea for now
- 14:15:28 [timbl]
- s/record/W3C Recommentation/
- 14:15:37 [Antoine]
- Ben: last call means technical issues are addressed
- 14:15:50 [Antoine]
- ... we still expect reactions and comments and various aspect
- 14:16:01 [Antoine]
- s/and various/on various
- 14:16:06 [kjetilk]
- kjetilk has joined #swd
- 14:16:07 [MarkB_]
- s/entation/endation/
- 14:16:33 [Antoine]
- Guus: two issues
- 14:16:44 [Antoine]
- ... pushing things further with swd wg
- 14:16:54 [Antoine]
- ... and html aspect
- 14:16:54 [MarkB_]
- s/withing/within/
- 14:17:11 [Antoine]
- ... propose to bundle
- 14:17:19 [Steven]
- q+
- 14:17:33 [Antoine]
- Guus: can this wg publish a rec on a module for html?
- 14:17:38 [Steven]
- ack me
- 14:17:45 [MarkB_]
- q+
- 14:17:49 [Antoine]
- Ralph: our charter allows for that
- 14:17:57 [Zakim]
- -TomB
- 14:18:08 [Antoine]
- ... the question is still open
- 14:18:31 [Antoine]
- Steven: dropping html wg: existing one or proposed one?
- 14:18:44 [Antoine]
- ... if existing one, no problem with publishing a rec
- 14:19:12 [Steven]
- zakim, mute me
- 14:19:12 [Zakim]
- Steven should now be muted
- 14:19:16 [Antoine]
- Ivan: there are precedents of modules published by other activities
- 14:19:32 [Antoine]
- Mark: it's not a modification of html
- 14:19:41 [Antoine]
- ... it's a module which uses xhtml techniques
- 14:20:00 [Antoine]
- Ben: bundle idea seems good idea to me
- 14:20:09 [Antoine]
- TimBL: importment is deployment strategy
- 14:20:19 [MarkB_]
- s/xhtml techniques/XHTML 1.1 M12N techniques/
- 14:20:38 [Antoine]
- ... pushing RDF into attributes. Current browser do nothing with attributes
- 14:20:43 [Antoine]
- Ben: yes
- 14:21:02 [Antoine]
- TimBL: other issue are value and validation
- 14:21:23 [RalphS]
- zakim, Jonathan_Rees just arrived in meetingroom
- 14:21:23 [Zakim]
- +Jonathan_Rees; got it
- 14:21:30 [Antoine]
- Ben: content management tools need publishing and validation, yes
- 14:21:53 [Antoine]
- Ben: I don't want to discuss the syntax
- 14:21:59 [Antoine]
- ... I want to discuss rec or not
- 14:22:00 [timbl]
- s/value/HTML tidy/
- 14:22:22 [Antoine]
- Guus: my feeling: discussion on UC is different if we go for rec track
- 14:22:43 [Antoine]
- Ralph: short term question is readiness to publish new version of doc
- 14:23:02 [Antoine]
- ... how much is needed depending on our choosing note or rec
- 14:23:37 [Antoine]
- Guus: would the UC doc content need to be different?
- 14:23:56 [Antoine]
- Guus: postpone the discussion, ack that doc might end in rec track
- 14:24:01 [benadida]
- use case doc: http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/RDFa/scenarios/
- 14:24:20 [berrueta_]
- berrueta_ has joined #swd
- 14:24:22 [Antoine]
- Ben: Use case doc
- 14:24:47 [Antoine]
- ... Guus review: should we mention RDFa?
- 14:25:06 [Antoine]
- ... we modeled document after griddl
- 14:25:22 [Antoine]
- Guus: strictly speaking it is not a UC doc if you mention RDFa
- 14:25:34 [Antoine]
- ... to avoid too much technology-driven document
- 14:25:44 [Antoine]
- ... and overlap between primer and UC
- 14:25:57 [Antoine]
- Ben: OK
- 14:26:01 [mhausenblas]
- does this also effect the code snippets?
- 14:26:23 [Antoine]
- Ralph: it would be artificial
- 14:26:43 [Antoine]
- Guus: XXX shows it was possible to rationalize after design
- 14:26:44 [Zakim]
- +??P8
- 14:27:08 [benadida]
- s/XXX/Parnas
- 14:27:12 [benadida]
- s/XXX/Parnas/
- 14:27:15 [Antoine]
- TimBL: it makes sense to explain the kind of things you want to do
- 14:27:22 [mhausenblas]
- -> http://portal.acm.org/citation.cfm?id=9800
- 14:27:47 [Antoine]
- Ralph: there are still things undecided
- 14:27:52 [MarkB_]
- q+
- 14:27:59 [Antoine]
- ... eg. how much rdf/xml we want in rdf/html
- 14:28:10 [Antoine]
- ... a use case can explain the boudaries we want to hav
- 14:28:19 [Antoine]
- Guus: UC are useful for scoping
- 14:28:29 [mhausenblas]
- q+
- 14:28:39 [Antoine]
- ... explaining to the outside public our decision
- 14:28:53 [Antoine]
- Ben: there was already some consultation outside
- 14:29:15 [Antoine]
- TimBL: did you find case for publishing full RDF?
- 14:29:20 [FabienG]
- FabienG has joined #swd
- 14:29:32 [Antoine]
- ... or just a chunk?
- 14:29:52 [Antoine]
- Ben: there were case (like bibtex) that caused us to rethink
- 14:30:08 [Antoine]
- TimBL: are there thing we cannot do?
- 14:30:23 [Antoine]
- Ivan: problem of expressing lists/containers
- 14:30:26 [timbl]
- Tim: Is there a well-defined list about what can't be expressed?
- 14:30:34 [Antoine]
- ... reification, but less important
- 14:30:37 [timbl]
- Tim: reification is negatively importnat IMHO
- 14:30:45 [Antoine]
- Ben: we have also datatypes
- 14:30:50 [timbl]
- q?
- 14:31:10 [Antoine]
- Ben: action to take that list of exclusions of the wiki
- 14:31:29 [RalphS]
- ACTION: Ben start a list of RDF/XML features that are not supported by RDFa
- 14:32:18 [Antoine]
- Mark: RDF community might want us to resolve their problems according to current best practices, e.g. for reification
- 14:32:28 [ivan]
- q?
- 14:32:32 [ivan]
- q+
- 14:32:35 [Antoine]
- ... not clear which way we should go to the broader community
- 14:32:36 [Steven]
- zakim, who is muted?
- 14:32:36 [Zakim]
- I see Michael_Hausenblas, Steven, TomB muted
- 14:32:45 [mhausenblas]
- Zakim, please unmute me
- 14:32:45 [Zakim]
- Michael_Hausenblas should no longer be muted
- 14:32:47 [Antoine]
- ... I think Guus point on UC is relevant
- 14:32:58 [Antoine]
- ... not having sample markup makes sense
- 14:33:17 [FabienG]
- q+ to talk about GRDDL use cases doc
- 14:33:35 [Antoine]
- ... seems wrong that UC doc looks like primer
- 14:34:18 [Antoine]
- Ben: what is the WG opinion on removing rdfa code from doc?
- 14:34:30 [Antoine]
- WG: approves
- 14:34:42 [RalphS]
- zakim, Stephen_Williams just arrived in meetingroom
- 14:34:42 [Zakim]
- +Stephen_Williams; got it
- 14:35:04 [TomB]
- +1 on removing RDFa snippets from UC doc
- 14:35:36 [kjetilk]
- I'm abstaining from voting since I'm very new to the group. Will start voting when I feel I have a clue
- 14:35:40 [Antoine]
- Michael: link with microformats?
- 14:35:48 [Antoine]
- Guus: could be a good test
- 14:35:58 [aliman]
- q+ to say selling RDFa in use cases potentially wrong
- 14:36:15 [Antoine]
- Ben: the requirement we have now are likely to go further than microformats
- 14:36:19 [Zakim]
- RalphS, you wanted to comment on building brand
- 14:36:32 [mhausenblas]
- Zakim, please mute me
- 14:36:32 [Zakim]
- Michael_Hausenblas should now be muted
- 14:36:55 [Antoine]
- Ralph: it's ok to mention rdfa some times, to build a brand
- 14:37:31 [Antoine]
- Guus: removing the code is what is really needed
- 14:37:39 [mhausenblas]
- instead of remove RDFa code, why not ADD microformat code :)
- 14:38:05 [Antoine]
- Ivan: From the very start the goal what that rdf/xml could be fully embedded in html
- 14:38:18 [Steven]
- s/what/was/
- 14:38:20 [Antoine]
- ... in some cases it proved to be too complicated
- 14:38:26 [Guus]
- q+
- 14:38:27 [Antoine]
- ... like for reification
- 14:38:40 [Antoine]
- ... UCs do not include reification now
- 14:38:49 [MarkB_]
- q+ To explain my outstanding action item on reification v. n-aray relationships.
- 14:38:54 [Antoine]
- ... we could revisit that goal
- 14:39:26 [Antoine]
- Ben: we could annotate triples like provenance of license info
- 14:39:34 [timbl]
- q+ re collections
- 14:39:41 [timbl]
- q+ to discuss collections
- 14:39:44 [Zakim]
- FabienG, you wanted to talk about GRDDL use cases doc
- 14:39:48 [timbl]
- q- re
- 14:39:53 [Antoine]
- Fabien: there is no code is griddl use cases
- 14:39:56 [timbl]
- q- collections
- 14:40:08 [Antoine]
- ... first part: problem we propose to address, no mention to griddl
- 14:40:20 [Antoine]
- ... second part: how griddl could solve the problem
- 14:40:55 [Antoine]
- Alistair: RDFa primer is best doc to go for info
- 14:41:07 [Zakim]
- aliman, you wanted to say selling RDFa in use cases potentially wrong
- 14:41:23 [FabienG]
- GRDDL use case scenario doc for info : http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/grddl-wg/doc43/scenario-gallery.htm
- 14:41:34 [Antoine]
- Guus: I would prefer if RDFa design goal were not trying to address complete RDF
- 14:41:42 [Antoine]
- s/goal/goals
- 14:42:02 [Antoine]
- ... it shoudl be easy to understand, simple document
- 14:42:04 [RalphS]
- q+ to propose a resolution re: RDF/XML completeness
- 14:42:29 [Antoine]
- ... if we spend one year on addressing everything we migh propose something scary for the community
- 14:42:47 [Antoine]
- s/migh/might
- 14:43:01 [Elisa]
- Elisa has joined #swd
- 14:43:06 [Antoine]
- Mark: this was a flexible design goal, no criterion for success
- 14:43:51 [Guus]
- q?
- 14:44:09 [Zakim]
- +Elisa_Kendall
- 14:44:28 [Antoine]
- ... originally there were request like this document is about that with 80% certainty
- 14:44:51 [mhausenblas]
- +1 to Mark
- 14:44:52 [Antoine]
- ... there could be other way that reification
- 14:44:59 [Antoine]
- s/way/ways
- 14:45:34 [Antoine]
- ... I argue against too much simplicity
- 14:45:54 [Antoine]
- Guus: there are conflicting requirements for any technology
- 14:46:14 [mhausenblas]
- we could also do a CFA ( as http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wg/wiki/WD-DC)
- 14:46:18 [timbl]
- Mark seems to augur forinformation about triples, which to me suggests graph literals .. a way of putting a wrapper around some rdf/a.
- 14:46:18 [Antoine]
- ... we have too solve this req of simplicity while supporting all the use case
- 14:46:47 [Antoine]
- ... there is no problem with having such conflicting req
- 14:46:52 [Guus]
- q?
- 14:47:00 [Zakim]
- MarkB_, you wanted to explain my outstanding action item on reification v. n-aray relationships.
- 14:47:05 [Guus]
- ack
- 14:47:24 [Zakim]
- timbl, you wanted to discuss collections
- 14:47:48 [Antoine]
- TimBL: drawing the line between what's in and out
- 14:48:07 [Antoine]
- ... annotating triples is important
- 14:48:25 [Antoine]
- ... RDF bag and sequences are difficult to work with
- 14:48:43 [Antoine]
- ... some applications (creative commons) use it
- 14:48:52 [mhausenblas]
- q+
- 14:48:54 [Antoine]
- ... also valid for sequences
- 14:49:14 [kjetilk]
- q+ to ask about v2
- 14:49:29 [Antoine]
- Ben: ol in html embodies collection, we try to see that
- 14:49:43 [ivan]
- q+
- 14:49:55 [timbl]
- ol a collection, ul a class maybe
- 14:50:37 [RalphS]
- PROPOSE: RDFa is not required to support every feature of RDF/XML
- 14:50:40 [Antoine]
- Ralph: we should apply the same process as for SKOS UCs yesterday
- 14:51:30 [Antoine]
- ... we have to wait for a use case before deciding wether reification is in or not
- 14:52:08 [mhausenblas]
- Zakim, please unmute me
- 14:52:08 [Zakim]
- Michael_Hausenblas should no longer be muted
- 14:52:19 [Zakim]
- RalphS, you wanted to propose a resolution re: RDF/XML completeness
- 14:52:24 [mhausenblas]
- http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wg/wiki/UCR/Methodology
- 14:52:55 [Antoine]
- Michael: make sense to make a critical sector analysis on wiki?
- 14:53:23 [ivan]
- q-
- 14:53:56 [Antoine]
- Guus: it could be a good idea, it would take more time
- 14:53:58 [mhausenblas]
- s/sector/factor
- 14:54:16 [Antoine]
- ... in Rule wg, use cases were much more difficult to analyse
- 14:54:43 [Zakim]
- kjetilk, you wanted to ask about v2
- 14:54:59 [Antoine]
- Kjetilk: we have good idea of what people want to do now
- 14:55:10 [Antoine]
- ... and what people might want to do later
- 14:55:10 [mhausenblas]
- Zakim, please mute me
- 14:55:10 [Zakim]
- Michael_Hausenblas should now be muted
- 14:55:28 [Antoine]
- ... could we introduce a version 1 and a version 2?
- 14:55:46 [Antoine]
- Ben: in theory, yes, in practice we would have to be really careful
- 14:55:51 [Guus]
- q?
- 14:56:19 [RalphS]
- PROPOSE: RDFa is not required to support every feature of RDF/XML
- 14:56:59 [Antoine]
- WG agrees
- 14:57:33 [Antoine]
- RESOLVED by consensus: RDFa is not required to support every feature of RDF/XML
- 14:57:51 [Antoine]
- Ben: use case 1: basic structured blogging
- 14:58:41 [Antoine]
- Ivan: for many people this might not be relevant: many bloggers do not use html
- 14:59:08 [Antoine]
- Ben: this use case means that people can write plug-ins to do that
- 14:59:37 [MarkB_]
- q+
- 15:00:07 [Antoine]
- Ben: UC1 should be clearer about the tool support
- 15:01:13 [Antoine]
- Mark: there might be a use case with markup by hand
- 15:01:31 [Antoine]
- Ben: UC2: publishing an event
- 15:02:53 [Antoine]
- ... could go to a specific tool (creative common) to get a machine-readable chunk and copy-paste in html page
- 15:03:19 [Antoine]
- ... UC1 could be for tool support for RDFa, UC2 more wizard-like
- 15:03:37 [Antoine]
- Ivan: one big feature of RDFa is mixing vocabularies
- 15:03:51 [Antoine]
- ... if we look at this UC, microformats could do that
- 15:04:10 [Antoine]
- ... event information should mix different vocabulary
- 15:04:21 [Antoine]
- ... just some words to be added to the text
- 15:04:32 [MarkB_]
- q+
- 15:04:46 [Antoine]
- TimBL: put the RDF to include in the HTML in the example
- 15:05:02 [Antoine]
- Mark: other benefit is the use of existing taxonomies
- 15:05:16 [Antoine]
- ... problem with microformat is that you have to reinvent taxonomies
- 15:05:39 [Antoine]
- ... should we include two different use cases?
- 15:06:14 [Antoine]
- Ivan: additional benefit: author can add his own namespace
- 15:06:35 [RalphS]
- Ivan: mix events, bibtex, geolocation
- 15:06:35 [Antoine]
- Ben: use case 3: content management metadata
- 15:06:50 [Antoine]
- ... various decisions about content
- 15:06:54 [Guus]
- q+to suggest that we explicitly discuss at the end of the document why MF are not sufficient for handling the use cases
- 15:07:15 [Antoine]
- ... the structured data may not be rendered
- 15:07:22 [mhausenblas]
- +1 to Guus suggestion
- 15:07:55 [Antoine]
- Ivan: this code seems to be xhtml2 perhaps not wisest thing to do
- 15:08:34 [RalphS]
- q+
- 15:08:43 [Antoine]
- ... also technical issue: if final design is only to add attributes or to change content model
- 15:09:04 [Antoine]
- ... raise more problems if we want to combine with text
- 15:09:30 [Antoine]
- Ben: this is a fair comment, to take into account
- 15:10:24 [Antoine]
- Ben: use case 4: creative commons use case
- 15:10:47 [Antoine]
- ... self contained chunk added in html
- 15:11:19 [Antoine]
- Guus: section in the document where it is said that MF are not enough to solve the problems
- 15:11:49 [Antoine]
- Ralph: I think we do that by presenting use cases
- 15:12:04 [Antoine]
- ... if MF meet challenges then MF are the solution
- 15:12:27 [ivan]
- q?
- 15:12:35 [ivan]
- ack guus
- 15:12:35 [Zakim]
- Guus, you wanted to suggest that we explicitly discuss at the end of the document why MF are not sufficient for handling the use cases
- 15:13:23 [Antoine]
- Mark: for the simple use case we could show that MF and RDFa can solve the problem
- 15:13:30 [mhausenblas]
- +1
- 15:13:33 [Antoine]
- ... and for complex ones that only RDFa is OK
- 15:13:47 [Antoine]
- s/ones/ones,
- 15:13:59 [Antoine]
- Ben: UC5: clipboard
- 15:14:12 [Antoine]
- ... comment by alistair this was not a distinct UC
- 15:14:39 [Antoine]
- ... I think it is important, I can demo it
- 15:15:02 [Antoine]
- Guus: there is no problem with overlapping UCs
- 15:15:46 [Antoine]
- Alistair: copy-pasting in html has nothing with RDFA
- 15:16:12 [mhausenblas]
- Zakim, please unmute me
- 15:16:12 [Zakim]
- Michael_Hausenblas should no longer be muted
- 15:16:12 [Antoine]
- ... the point is that if I copy html with rdfa statement, I want them to be included when pasting
- 15:16:23 [Guus]
- q?
- 15:17:46 [Antoine]
- Ben: there should be a way to associate with a certain region of the interface some statements
- 15:18:07 [Antoine]
- ... that should be copy-pasted and brought somewhere else
- 15:18:25 [Antoine]
- TimBL: the need is to copy-paste html with all the rdfa about this piece
- 15:19:00 [RalphS]
- TimBL: there's a sense of locality to the RDFa and HTML markup
- 15:19:04 [Antoine]
- Ben: should emphasize the need for localize relevant rdfa statements for copy-paste
- 15:19:05 [timbl]
- depends on the abilit to localize the data to a part of the doc
- 15:19:26 [Antoine]
- Ben: UC6: semantic wiki
- 15:19:36 [FabienG]
- q+ to talk about GRDDL equivalent use case : http://www.w3.org/TR/grddl-scenarios/#wiki_use_case
- 15:19:48 [Antoine]
- ... rdfa as input when editing wiki and having it in result
- 15:19:51 [mhausenblas]
- q+
- 15:20:08 [Antoine]
- Ivan: is that really rdfa? there would be a different syntax
- 15:20:49 [FabienG]
- http://www.w3.org/TR/grddl-scenarios/#wiki_use_case
- 15:21:06 [ivan]
- ack fabien
- 15:21:06 [Zakim]
- FabienG, you wanted to talk about GRDDL equivalent use case : http://www.w3.org/TR/grddl-scenarios/#wiki_use_case
- 15:21:11 [Antoine]
- Fabien: good idea to link with the griddl wiki UC
- 15:21:36 [Antoine]
- ... lot of semantic wiki get rid of wikiML and just copy-paste
- 15:22:08 [Antoine]
- ... wysiwyg interfaces are preferred
- 15:22:11 [ivan]
- ack mich
- 15:22:23 [Antoine]
- Michael: two issues
- 15:22:24 [mhausenblas]
- http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/mmsem/wiki/MichaelHausenblas
- 15:22:34 [FabienG]
- example of WYSIWYG interface using XHTML and RDFa for a wiki: http://argentera.inria.fr/wiki/data/Main/MainHome.jsp
- 15:22:40 [Antoine]
- ... requirement link to multimedia semantics WG
- 15:23:00 [Antoine]
- ... using a wiki syntax related to rdfa
- 15:23:40 [FabienG]
- s/griddl/GRDDL
- 15:24:23 [Antoine]
- Ben: let's not focus on rdfa as input
- 15:24:33 [Antoine]
- ... but you could paste rdfa
- 15:24:36 [Guus]
- ack
- 15:25:00 [kjetilk]
- q+ to ask about bbcode in foras
- 15:25:13 [Guus]
- ack Ralph
- 15:25:17 [ivan]
- ack kje
- 15:25:17 [Zakim]
- kjetilk, you wanted to ask about bbcode in foras
- 15:25:46 [mhausenblas]
- can you provide a pointer, please?
- 15:26:13 [FabienG]
- BBCode : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BBCode
- 15:26:21 [mhausenblas]
- thanks
- 15:26:24 [Antoine]
- Ben: UC6: strutured publishing by scientists
- 15:26:37 [Antoine]
- ... motivated by existing chemist blog
- 15:27:09 [Antoine]
- ... UC is more advanced user agent, getting local RDF
- 15:27:38 [Antoine]
- Ivan: so emphasis is on adding some sexy UI to visualize the RDF info
- 15:27:39 [MarkB_]
- q+
- 15:27:42 [Zakim]
- -Michael_Hausenblas
- 15:27:57 [Antoine]
- ... what I like is reference to other community
- 15:28:18 [Antoine]
- ... you should put some more reference to creative commons
- 15:28:27 [benadida]
- s/creative commons/science commons/
- 15:29:29 [Antoine]
- ... The difference here with MF is that vocabularies are huge
- 15:29:44 [Antoine]
- Mark: I agree with that
- 15:30:25 [Antoine]
- ... perhaps the structured blogging UC should be different
- 15:30:26 [Guus]
- ack mark
- 15:30:31 [Guus]
- ack Ralph
- 15:30:31 [Zakim]
- RalphS, you wanted to note reference to browser enhancement
- 15:31:01 [Antoine]
- Ralph: this last UC mentions application-specific extensions
- 15:31:17 [timbl]
- q+ for 3 iuse cases
- 15:31:23 [Antoine]
- Guus: brainstorm with suggestions of applications
- 15:31:26 [timbl]
- q+
- 15:31:38 [Antoine]
- TimBL: 3 UCS
- 15:31:50 [Guus]
- ack tim
- 15:32:24 [Antoine]
- ... 1: have RDF recording a collection of authors
- 15:32:48 [Antoine]
- ... bibtex can be used as example, but point should be made that order should be kept
- 15:33:16 [Antoine]
- ... 2: UC with unordered list: list of references for a WG
- 15:33:35 [Antoine]
- ... owl:oneOf
- 15:34:40 [Antoine]
- ... 3: UC: collect a foaf file manually done
- 15:35:14 [FabienG]
- q+ just to list the GRDDL use cases in case one could be inspiring.
- 15:37:00 [FabienG]
- q- just
- 15:37:18 [FabienG]
- q+ to list the GRDDL use cases in case one could be inspiring.
- 15:37:24 [JonP]
- q+
- 15:38:21 [Guus]
- ack Fabien
- 15:38:21 [Zakim]
- FabienG, you wanted to list the GRDDL use cases in case one could be inspiring.
- 15:38:28 [Antoine]
- Fabien: 3 use cases from GRDDL
- 15:39:23 [Antoine]
- http://www.w3.org/TR/grddl-scenarios/
- 15:39:39 [RalphS]
- [[
- 15:39:39 [RalphS]
- # Use case #1 - Scheduling : Jane is trying to coordinate a meeting.
- 15:39:39 [RalphS]
- # Use case #2 - Health Care: Querying an XML-based clinical data using an standard ontology
- 15:39:39 [RalphS]
- # Use case #3 - Aggregating data: Stephan wants a synthetic review before buying a guitar.
- 15:39:39 [RalphS]
- # Use case #4 - Querying sites and digital libraries: DC4Plus Corp. wants to automate the publication of its electronic documents.
- 15:39:41 [RalphS]
- # Use case #5 - Wikis and e-learning: The Technical University of Marcilly decided to use wikis to foster knowledge exchanges between lecturers and students.
- 15:39:44 [RalphS]
- # Use case #6 - Voltaire wants to facilitate the extraction of transport semantics from an online form used to edit blog entries.
- 15:39:47 [RalphS]
- # Use case #7 - XML schema specifying a transformation: the OAI would like to be able to specify document licenses in their XML schema.
- 15:39:50 [RalphS]
- ]]
- 15:39:52 [RalphS]
- -- http://www.w3.org/TR/grddl-scenarios/
- 15:40:04 [Antoine]
- Fabien: relation between grddl and rdfa
- 15:40:21 [Antoine]
- ... one use case is a counter-example
- 15:40:55 [Antoine]
- ... case where it is explained that sometimes it can fail
- 15:41:14 [RalphS]
- Fabien: GRDDL UC editor's draft contains a new use case 8 counter-example
- 15:41:26 [RalphS]
- q+
- 15:41:36 [Antoine]
- Jon: metadata registry which express the vocabularies
- 15:41:53 [Antoine]
- ... we want to embed the RDF in HTML for rendering
- 15:42:12 [Antoine]
- Ben: could be interesting to have a SKOS-specific UC
- 15:42:46 [ivan]
- ack ralph
- 15:43:09 [Antoine]
- Ralph: maybe an online dictionary can include some SKOS
- 15:43:11 [FabienG]
- Counter-example in GRDDL use cases current draft: http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/grddl-wg/doc43/scenario-gallery.htm#html_tidy_use_case
- 15:43:32 [Antoine]
- Guus: UCs having different vocabularies
- 15:43:38 [RalphS]
- Ralph: dictionary or our HTML wordnet files might include SKOS markup
- 15:43:45 [Antoine]
- ... food domain
- 15:44:01 [Antoine]
- ... product catalog
- 15:44:34 [Antoine]
- ... this is kind of UC which is not emphasized currently
- 15:46:24 [Antoine]
- Steven:UC with retailers, venders, with multiple vocabulary. HTML view of last financial transactions in RDFa, interpretable by browsers
- 15:46:39 [RalphS]
- s/Steven/Stephen/
- 15:46:50 [Guus]
- q?
- 15:47:00 [Antoine]
- ... trip organizer to help with decisions
- 15:47:52 [Antoine]
- ... news stories, journals: grab all the key ideas about the stories you care about
- 15:48:08 [MarkB_]
- q+
- 15:48:26 [MarkB_]
- q-
- 15:48:33 [Antoine]
- Ben: comments on primer are editorial
- 15:48:43 [Antoine]
- ... we can skip it
- 15:49:22 [Steven]
- ack me
- 15:49:35 [FabienG]
- Counter-example in GRDDL use cases current draft: http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/grddl-wg/doc43/scenario-gallery.htm#html_tidy_use_case
- 15:49:51 [TomB]
- ack TomB
- 15:50:12 [TomB]
- zakim, please unmute me
- 15:50:12 [Zakim]
- TomB was not muted, TomB
- 15:50:24 [Steven]
- zakim, mute me
- 15:50:24 [Zakim]
- Steven should now be muted
- 15:51:20 [TomB]
- I will type
- 15:51:29 [TomB]
- I want to discuss VM note
- 15:51:44 [Guus]
- when?
- 15:51:44 [TomB]
- but would need to change bldgs if discussion goes beyond 11:45
- 15:52:03 [TomB]
- sorry - 12:45 -
- 15:52:12 [Guus]
- fine
- 15:52:15 [Guus]
- that works
- 15:53:24 [Zakim]
- -Steven
- 15:53:25 [MarkB_]
- bye
- 15:53:28 [Zakim]
- -Mark_Birbeck
- 16:02:58 [Zakim]
- -TomB
- 16:04:15 [Zakim]
- +??P27
- 16:04:21 [berrueta]
- berrueta has joined #swd
- 16:05:06 [Steven]
- are we restarting?
- 16:06:56 [Steven]
- s/immeg/immig/
- 16:07:04 [Steven]
- s/Sutch/Dutch/
- 16:09:00 [Zakim]
- -TomB
- 16:10:41 [RalphS]
- [restarting]
- 16:10:47 [Zakim]
- +??P29
- 16:10:56 [FabienG]
- Scribe: FabienG
- 16:11:09 [FabienG]
- ScribeNick: FabienG
- 16:11:32 [TomB]
- yes
- 16:11:45 [Guus]
- zakim, who is here?
- 16:11:45 [Zakim]
- On the phone I see MeetingRoom, Elisa_Kendall, TomB
- 16:11:46 [Zakim]
- MeetingRoom has JonP, IvanHerman, Ralph, Antoine, Guus, TimBL, Alistair, Diego, Ben, Kjetil, Fabien, Jonathan_Rees, Stephen_Williams
- 16:11:49 [Zakim]
- On IRC I see berrueta, Elisa, FabienG, kjetilk, TomB, aliman, benadida, Guus, MarkB_, Antoine, timbl, Steven, JonP, RRSAgent, ivan, Zakim, RalphS
- 16:12:02 [RalphS]
- Mark, Steven, are you going to re-dial?
- 16:12:10 [Steven]
- zakim, dial steven-617
- 16:12:10 [Zakim]
- ok, Steven; the call is being made
- 16:12:12 [Zakim]
- +Steven
- 16:12:15 [ivan]
- no tom
- 16:12:20 [FabienG]
- Starting second morning session
- 16:12:22 [TomB]
- ok
- 16:12:42 [FabienG]
- Guss: GRDDL use case and RDFa use cases
- 16:12:46 [Zakim]
- +Mark_Birbeck
- 16:13:02 [FabienG]
- Ben: GRDDL agent have an RDFa parser
- 16:13:05 [Steven]
- zakim, mute me
- 16:13:05 [Zakim]
- Steven should now be muted
- 16:13:09 [Zakim]
- -TomB
- 16:13:46 [FabienG]
- ... other option hGRDDL e.g.: transform microformat into RDFa
- 16:13:48 [Zakim]
- +[IPcaller]
- 16:14:03 [FabienG]
- ... this would preserve the locality in a new HTML doc
- 16:14:22 [aliman]
- q+ to ask aobut grddl and xslt
- 16:14:45 [FabienG]
- Ivan: third option use the GRDDL mechanism to extract RDFa
- 16:14:56 [FabienG]
- q+
- 16:15:59 [FabienG]
- Alistair: GRDDL agent: does it have to parse it (RDFa parser) or does it use a GRDDL transform?
- 16:16:52 [FabienG]
- Guss: we must write down the relationship in the GRDDL doc and in the RDFa doc
- 16:17:40 [FabienG]
- ACTION: Ben to write down the relation between GRDDL and RDFa
- 16:17:58 [ivan]
- q+
- 16:18:10 [aliman]
- q-
- 16:18:12 [FabienG]
- Ben: RDFa would be a recommandation for an XHTML module
- 16:18:19 [ivan]
- ack fabien
- 16:19:00 [RalphS]
- Fabien: one problem is that RDFa is presented as a new syntax for RDf whereas GRDDL is presented as a way to extract RDF/XML from other XML syntaxes
- 16:19:24 [timbl]
- q+ to talk about the ladder of authority
- 16:19:30 [RalphS]
- ... a GRDDL transformation from RDFa to RDF/XML doesn't make a lot of sense to me if RDFa is adopted as an alternate RDF syntax
- 16:19:58 [RalphS]
- ... an agent is either a GRDDL agent or an RDFa agent
- 16:20:23 [FabienG]
- Ben: this should be an GRDDL working group decision
- 16:20:42 [RalphS]
- q+ to add to Tim's ladder of authority
- 16:20:54 [ivan]
- ack timbl
- 16:20:54 [Zakim]
- timbl, you wanted to talk about the ladder of authority
- 16:21:12 [FabienG]
- Tim: explains ladder of authority
- 16:21:45 [Zakim]
- +??P35
- 16:21:56 [FabienG]
- ... we must decide if its part of HTML or if we use the GRDDL way
- 16:21:56 [dlrubin]
- dlrubin has joined #swd
- 16:22:09 [dlrubin]
- Hello, sorry I'm late...
- 16:22:27 [FabienG]
- Guss: back to REC discussion
- 16:23:16 [FabienG]
- Ivan: if we produce an XHMTL modul REC, we would need a new DTD
- 16:23:35 [FabienG]
- ... module as a REC would not solve the validation problem
- 16:24:00 [Steven]
- q+
- 16:24:08 [FabienG]
- ... the XHTML WG owns these DTDs
- 16:24:13 [Guus]
- Guus has joined #swd
- 16:24:20 [FabienG]
- Ben : the validation would be separate
- 16:24:21 [Guus]
- q?
- 16:24:28 [Guus]
- ack ivan
- 16:24:36 [FabienG]
- Tim: yes but other validators would complain
- 16:24:56 [MarkB_]
- q+ On xhtml m12n
- 16:24:58 [Steven]
- anyone can create a driver
- 16:25:04 [MarkB_]
- q+
- 16:25:25 [FabienG]
- Ivan: the driver in the XHTML 1.1, a change has to be made and it is something this WG can't do
- 16:25:31 [Steven]
- ack me
- 16:25:50 [FabienG]
- Steven: not such a big problem to make driver
- 16:26:20 [FabienG]
- ... a document that wants to be validated has to reference the modified DTD
- 16:26:41 [berrueta]
- berrueta has joined #swd
- 16:26:47 [FabienG]
- Ben: it would be could if we produce a validator as part of this WG output.
- 16:26:51 [Guus]
- ack Mark
- 16:27:02 [Steven]
- zakim, mute me
- 16:27:02 [Zakim]
- Steven should now be muted
- 16:27:15 [FabienG]
- Mark: we are not modifying XHTML 1.1 and we can't.
- 16:27:42 [FabienG]
- ... XHTML Modularization 1.1 is a different thing.
- 16:27:56 [Steven]
- XHTML1.1+RDFa
- 16:27:59 [timbl]
- unless we change the XHTML 1.1 DTD
- 16:28:11 [Steven]
- unless we create XHMTL 1.2
- 16:28:54 [Steven]
- s/XHMTL/XHTML/
- 16:29:40 [FabienG]
- Guss: issues wrt REC: ressources for test cases, resources for team contact.
- 16:30:08 [FabienG]
- ... two RECs may be too much work for this WG.
- 16:30:25 [FabienG]
- ... do we have sufficient people to set up tesst suite?
- 16:30:56 [ivan]
- elias torres
- 16:31:27 [FabienG]
- Ben: Elias Torres from IBM would be of great help for test suite
- 16:31:52 [FabienG]
- ... we have material for the tests we ha to assemble them
- 16:32:05 [Steven]
- s/ha /have /
- 16:32:05 [FabienG]
- Guss: set up a repository?
- 16:33:17 [FabienG]
- Ben: not too worry about that several people can help (Ben, Mark, Elias, etc.)
- 16:33:52 [RalphS]
- -> http://www.w3.org/2000/09/dbwg/details?group=39408 formal WG participants [Member-only link]
- 16:34:11 [FabienG]
- Guss: I am concerned about not having enough resources to make significant progress.
- 16:34:34 [FabienG]
- ... is the schedule realistic.
- 16:34:56 [FabienG]
- Ben: agressive but we must do it if we want to have this done.
- 16:35:07 [FabienG]
- Ivan: what are the alternatives?
- 16:35:16 [JonP]
- JonP has joined #swd
- 16:35:23 [FabienG]
- Guss: not going for Rec would be one alternative.
- 16:35:44 [FabienG]
- ... then reconcider when we finish up
- 16:36:37 [FabienG]
- Ivan: resource shortage is the plague of the whole SW activity.
- 16:37:52 [FabienG]
- ... Steven could help if he could spend some of his time on this issue.
- 16:38:19 [FabienG]
- Ralph: a lot of the work is editorial
- 16:38:40 [Zakim]
- -Mark_Birbeck
- 16:38:52 [MarkB_]
- dialling back.....
- 16:38:57 [benadida]
- q?
- 16:40:23 [Zakim]
- +Mark_Birbeck
- 16:40:27 [FabienG]
- Tim: since there is no more resources should we reconcider if we want to go with this?
- 16:40:59 [FabienG]
- Guss: we have to check internal depedencies, etc.
- 16:42:13 [FabienG]
- Tim: we must identify what a new WG resource would be doing precisely. What exactly should be done?
- 16:42:41 [FabienG]
- Ben: I prefer to take the risk to fail than to cancel it now.
- 16:43:52 [FabienG]
- Ivan: we have to have relativley stable publications on a regular basis fo RDFa because there is a lot of controversy around it.
- 16:44:28 [FabienG]
- Ben: even if we don't reach a Rec we could stabilize a version as a Note.
- 16:45:08 [FabienG]
- Guss: that would be my proposal "go for REC track"
- 16:45:33 [FabienG]
- ACTION: Guss to flag the issue of RDFa REC track on the coordination group
- 16:46:33 [RalphS]
- zakim, AlanR just arrived in meetingroom
- 16:46:33 [Zakim]
- +AlanR; got it
- 16:46:49 [FabienG]
- ACTION: Ben to get the docs in good shape for next week
- 16:46:56 [Steven]
- q?
- 16:47:37 [FabienG]
- Tim: I am concerned about the fact that RDFa attributes semantics to an HTML doc.
- 16:47:51 [RalphS]
- Ralph: and I am on queue to respond to that concern
- 16:47:54 [FabienG]
- Guss: break out sessions for this afternoon
- 16:48:20 [FabienG]
- ... SKOS integration of issues and requirement list
- 16:48:55 [FabienG]
- ... RDFa discussion on use cases, GRDDL relation, etc.
- 16:49:20 [FabienG]
- ... Recipes may be?
- 16:49:36 [FabienG]
- Jon: no need for thirs break out session
- 16:49:54 [FabienG]
- Guss: moving to voc management.
- 16:50:14 [MarkB_]
- bye everyone
- 16:50:18 [Zakim]
- -Steven
- 16:50:22 [Zakim]
- + +49.551.39.aacc
- 16:50:25 [Zakim]
- -Mark_Birbeck
- 16:50:38 [FabienG]
- ... remaining outputs of the WG to be discussed "voc management" "semantic integration"
- 16:51:06 [FabienG]
- Tom: About Voc Management Note
- 16:51:16 [FabienG]
- ... we don't have an editor
- 16:51:34 [RalphS]
- Topic: Principles for Managing Vocabularies
- 16:52:00 [JonP]
- http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/wiki/VocabMgtDraft
- 16:52:02 [RalphS]
- -> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/BestPractices/VM/principles/20050705 principles for managing an RDF vocabulary
- 16:52:25 [TomB]
- http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/wiki/VocabMgtDraft
- 16:52:46 [MarkB_]
- I couldn't hear properly, but it sounded like there was a proposal for a discussion about whether an HTML document should 'flag up', whether it contains RDFa or not. I wrote a long email to the list about this, in response to Ivan, but didn't no-one has commented on it. I would therefore appreciate it if no *final* decisions were taken on this issue at this meeting, since I won't be able to participate.
- 16:52:47 [RalphS]
- Tom: 20050705 is old, refer to the wiki version now
- 16:53:04 [FabienG]
- Tom: motivation is to describe what's involved in publishing an RDF voc
- 16:53:07 [MarkB_]
- s/didn't no-one/no-one/
- 16:53:33 [MarkB_]
- s/able to participate/able to participate in the discussion/
- 16:53:56 [RalphS]
- [I'll cite that mail, Mark, if you don't find it before you have to leave]
- 16:54:08 [FabienG]
- ... good to step back now and distinguish soft rec and hard rec
- 16:54:44 [FabienG]
- ... and use the cookbook
- 16:55:24 [alanr]
- alanr has joined #swd
- 16:56:50 [RalphS]
- Tom: principles of best practice may need to include very pragmatic things such as "remember to pay your domain registration fees", etc.
- 16:57:02 [RalphS]
- ... could include some really basic advice such as this
- 16:57:06 [FabienG]
- ... list and describe basic advice low hanging fruits.
- 16:57:48 [FabienG]
- Tom: we should brainstorm on the list of 5 points to see if it is a good starting point.
- 16:58:09 [FabienG]
- Guss: let's go through the five points.
- 16:58:33 [RalphS]
- [[
- 16:58:33 [RalphS]
- 1. Name Terms using URI References
- 16:58:33 [RalphS]
- 2. Provide readable documentation
- 16:58:33 [RalphS]
- 3. Articulate your Maintenance Policies
- 16:58:33 [RalphS]
- 4. Identify Versions
- 16:58:34 [RalphS]
- 5. Publish a Formal Schema
- 16:58:36 [RalphS]
- ]]
- 16:58:38 [RalphS]
- -- http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/wiki/VocabMgtDraft
- 16:58:40 [RalphS]
- -- 1. Name Terms using URI References
- 16:58:42 [TomB]
- http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-archive/2005Mar/0006.html
- 16:59:33 [FabienG]
- Tom: DanC said we should identify terms with URIs ; this is a hard REC for publishing an RDF Voc
- 17:00:24 [FabienG]
- Ralph: Dan's mail was more a terminology point than an architecture point.
- 17:01:03 [Zakim]
- -??P35
- 17:01:15 [RalphS]
- zakim, ??p35 was DLRubin
- 17:01:15 [Zakim]
- I don't understand '??p35 was DLRubin', RalphS
- 17:01:22 [RalphS]
- present+ DLRubin
- 17:01:34 [FabienG]
- Tom: naming convention could be moved to the cookbook
- 17:01:59 [FabienG]
- Ralph: I wouldn't want to move it but there should be cross references.
- 17:02:46 [FabienG]
- ... good place to mention the domain registration problem.
- 17:03:22 [FabienG]
- Guss: -- 2. Provide readable documentation
- 17:03:38 [RalphS]
- s/Guss:/Guus:/G
- 17:05:00 [FabienG]
- Tom: the whole documentation question could be grouped in one point with pointers to the cookbook
- 17:05:23 [jar]
- join swd
- 17:05:29 [FabienG]
- ... not giving too much details on what web pages one has to create to publish a voc
- 17:06:46 [FabienG]
- Ralph: considered best practice to have both human readable and machine readable doc
- 17:07:39 [FabienG]
- ... we should show examples of what we think are best pratices.
- 17:08:25 [FabienG]
- Alistaire: web page issue is "what a doc web page should look like" and show examples.
- 17:08:33 [dlrubin]
- dlrubin has left #swd
- 17:08:34 [RalphS]
- -> http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/ Dublin Core documentation
- 17:08:49 [FabienG]
- Tom: examples of different granularity in documenting
- 17:09:03 [TomB]
- fuller: http://dublincore.org/documents/dcmi-terms/
- 17:09:50 [FabienG]
- Ralph: we could refer to DC example on how to document
- 17:09:58 [Guus]
- q?
- 17:10:56 [FabienG]
- Alan: a way to make this point would be to pause a little query pb and let people discover what can be done and what can't be.
- 17:11:13 [FabienG]
- --- 3. Articulate your Maintenance Policies
- 17:12:00 [FabienG]
- S/pause/pose
- 17:12:51 [RalphS]
- Ralph: seeAlso -> http://www.w3.org/1999/10/nsuri "URIs for W3C Namespaces" - W3C Namespace usage policies
- 17:12:53 [FabienG]
- Tom: there should be example of different types of voc and the maintenance policies that they have.
- 17:13:06 [jar]
- jar has joined #swd
- 17:13:45 [FabienG]
- Ralph: section 3 in http://www.w3.org/1999/10/nsuri describes how namespace UI may change over time
- 17:14:46 [FabienG]
- Guus: what about the versioning?
- 17:15:22 [FabienG]
- Tom: we can show an example of URI used to identify snapshots of voc
- 17:15:57 [FabienG]
- ... Dan Brickley is interested in using Web CVS to explose different versions of voc
- 17:16:23 [FabienG]
- s/explose/expose
- 17:16:47 [alanr]
- q+
- 17:17:29 [FabienG]
- Ralph: it would be good if we did propose ways to identify versions
- 17:18:13 [FabienG]
- Guus: I have pb to see diffeence between point 3 and point 4
- 17:18:21 [FabienG]
- --- 4. Identify Versions
- 17:19:05 [JonP]
- Cookbook-related suggestion postponed from yesterday: http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/wiki/BestPracticeRecipesIssues/ServingSnapshots
- 17:19:26 [FabienG]
- Tom: describing how versioning is done in large voc repositories and in SKOS is also relevant
- 17:20:52 [aliman]
- q+ to ask about KWeb rdf versioning
- 17:20:56 [FabienG]
- Alan: hard part of versioning is to identify the policy people are using
- 17:21:08 [TomB]
- http://dublincore.org/usage/terms/history/
- 17:21:15 [RalphS]
- Alan: term-level versioning vs. vocabulary-level versioning are choices people make
- 17:21:21 [FabienG]
- ... would be a good thing to identify the possible policies
- 17:22:21 [FabienG]
- ... ponters to implementation would also be interesting
- 17:22:25 [timbl]
- q+
- 17:22:27 [Elisa]
- Another source for metadata and examples regarding versioning policies is the BioPortal (from the National Center for Biomedical Ontology), at http://www.bioontology.org/ncbo/faces/index.xhtml
- 17:22:38 [Zakim]
- aliman, you wanted to ask about KWeb rdf versioning
- 17:23:23 [FabienG]
- Alistaire: on KnowledgeWeb there are pointers to RDF versionning tools
- 17:23:58 [FabienG]
- Guus: that would be a possibility to have these people involved
- 17:24:10 [RalphS]
- -> http://knowledgeweb.semanticweb.org/semanticportal/sewView/frames.jsp Knowledge Web Network of Excellence project
- 17:24:20 [alanr]
- http://www.mail-archive.com/public-semweb-lifesci@w3.org/msg01624.html starts a thread
- 17:24:33 [alanr]
- about versioning.
- 17:24:58 [FabienG]
- ACTION: Guus to contact persons working on versioning in KnowledgeWeb
- 17:25:43 [alanr]
- http://biopaxwiki.org/cgi-bin/moin.cgi/BioPAX_Level_2_feedback/BioPAX_namespace_issue
- 17:25:47 [Guus]
- ack tim
- 17:26:21 [FabienG]
- Tim: when you introduce a new namespace you can use OWL to publish the relationship between the old version and the new one.
- 17:27:10 [RalphS]
- yes, candidate Best Practice: use OWL [and some other vocabulary] to describe the relationship between any changes you make in your vocabulary to the previous version
- 17:27:35 [FabienG]
- ... I mean using sameAs, equivalent*, etc.
- 17:27:58 [alanr]
- http://ontology.buffalo.edu/bfo/Versioning.pdf
- 17:28:00 [FabienG]
- ... this is a real added value of RDF
- 17:28:14 [kjetilk]
- q+
- 17:29:08 [timbl]
- The TAG has been trying to deal with XML versioning and there is much less one can do in general.
- 17:29:10 [FabienG]
- Ralph: enumerating policies and examples of them would be a good added value already
- 17:29:26 [kjetilk]
- q-
- 17:30:34 [RalphS]
- -> http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/wiki/BestPracticeRecipesIssues#COOKBOOK-I3.1-Serving_the_most_current_snapshot Jon's proposed COOKBOOK-I3.1 issue
- 17:30:41 [FabienG]
- Jon: taking a very concrete example is teaching people how to cook the cake and not how to read the cookbook
- 17:30:57 [RalphS]
- Jon: I believe this versioning discussion subsumes COOKBOOK-I3.1
- 17:32:24 [FabienG]
- Guus: I'd like to see a practical of example e.g. in the medical domain
- 17:32:44 [FabienG]
- --- 5. Publish a Formal Schema
- 17:33:19 [RalphS]
- q+
- 17:33:37 [kjetilk]
- q+
- 17:34:35 [Guus]
- ack Ralph
- 17:34:35 [FabienG]
- Tom: give good practice of how voc are being declared would be enough without going into too much details
- 17:35:40 [timbl]
- q?
- 17:35:46 [kjetilk]
- http://my.opera.com/community/xmlns/2006/gallery.rdf
- 17:35:57 [Guus]
- ack kje
- 17:36:05 [timbl]
- q+ to relate te last para tothe AWWW
- 17:36:26 [alanr]
- versioning perhaps http://www3.lehigh.edu/images/userImages/jgs2/Page_3813/LU-CSE-06-026.pdf
- 17:36:31 [FabienG]
- Kjetilk: don't we need a voc to describe our mainteannce policy?
- 17:36:57 [RalphS]
- Ralph: we should say that it is best practice to publish an RDF/OWL document at the namespace URI. This may be obvious to us but evidently it's not obvious to everyone. Point back to Recipes document for "... and here's how"
- 17:37:44 [RalphS]
- q+ to ask about serial v. parallel work
- 17:37:46 [FabienG]
- Guus: it is a good idea in principle. But we are not doing new work here we just identify existing practices.
- 17:39:17 [FabienG]
- Alistaire: what are the plans for the semantic interop note.
- 17:39:31 [FabienG]
- Guus: subject for last section.
- 17:40:15 [FabienG]
- Guus: looking fo an editor: Elisa ? Kjetik ? etc. ?
- 17:40:38 [FabienG]
- s/section/session/
- 17:40:39 [TomB]
- I can contribute descriptions of how things are done with Dublin Core.
- 17:41:51 [FabienG]
- Elisa: Daniel could also contribute with examples
- 17:44:27 [FabienG]
- ACTION: Elisa to give first overview of what the status of the doc is and add comments and coordinate work on doc
- 17:45:22 [Zakim]
- -Elisa_Kendall
- 17:45:59 [TomB]
- will there be a microphone for SKOS breakout?
- 17:46:45 [TomB]
- SKOS
- 17:47:40 [Zakim]
- -TomB.a
- 17:48:52 [Zakim]
- -TomB
- 18:07:20 [timbl]
- timbl has joined #swd
- 18:33:02 [TomB]
- TomB has joined #swd
- 18:34:09 [Zakim]
- +Elisa_Kendall
- 18:34:12 [Zakim]
- -MeetingRoom
- 18:34:13 [Zakim]
- +MeetingRoom
- 18:35:09 [Zakim]
- +??P19
- 18:36:09 [Zakim]
- -TomB
- 18:36:33 [Zakim]
- +??P19
- 18:42:52 [timbl]
- timbl has joined #swd
- 18:46:31 [aliman]
- aliman has joined #swd
- 18:46:47 [TomB]
- aliman, is the discussion about to resume?
- 18:51:59 [alanr]
- alanr has joined #swd
- 18:52:42 [aliman]
- guus: revisit all issues we discussed, identify candidate requirements, bring us to position of having first complete list of requirements, useful?
- 18:52:47 [aliman]
- aliman: yes
- 18:53:00 [TomB]
- q+ to suggest someone edit this directly in the wiki
- 18:53:02 [aliman]
- guus: finish quickly, can look at remaining use cases
- 18:53:11 [TomB]
- q-
- 18:53:41 [aliman]
- antoine: jon updated requirements list yesterd, based on that I created a bullet list of the issues
- 18:54:51 [alanr]
- http://www.w3.org/2001/12/zakim-irc-bot.html
- 18:54:52 [Guus]
- ralph, is it possible for you to move to another irc channel?
- 18:55:33 [Antoine]
- http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/wiki/SkosIssuesSandbox
- 18:56:09 [aliman]
- -> http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/wiki/CandidateReqList candidate requirements sandbox
- 18:56:59 [aliman]
- -> http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/wiki/SkosIssuesSandbox issues sandbox
- 18:57:27 [aliman]
- antoine: wanted to collect stuff from yesterday, from old issues etc. perhaps more issues than what we need
- 18:57:31 [aliman]
- scribenick: aliman
- 18:58:50 [aliman]
- guus: propose to split requirements into candidate and accepted
- 19:00:30 [aliman]
- guus: have the notion of relations between string values
- 19:01:03 [aliman]
- ... in requirements, have notion of acronym, representation of realtionships between labels associated with concepts
- 19:01:35 [aliman]
- ... making statements about lexical labels? alan, boil down to ability to represent statements about lexical labels?
- 19:02:11 [aliman]
- alan: yes. and the choice between boosting labels to individuals and using alistairs pattern (n-ary relations)
- 19:03:07 [aliman]
- ... real example from obi, this term is used by community x, this term was proposed by x, needs to be reviewd, was reviewd on x, this term was in use 200-500 b.c.
- 19:03:30 [aliman]
- guus: statements that relate a lexical label to a resource, and to various data values, typed data values like timestamps.
- 19:03:51 [aliman]
- alan: yes, the resource might be the container, depends on representation choice. other way is if lexical item is an individual, properties hang off it.
- 19:04:35 [aliman]
- guus: one way to handle this is to reformulate requirement 3, or add new rewuirement. currently req 3 is acronym example. boils down to same thing, make statements about things ...
- 19:04:41 [aliman]
- jon: talking about metadata?
- 19:05:04 [aliman]
- guus: from representation perspective same problem, from use perspective it is differen.
- 19:05:24 [aliman]
- alan: synonymy is relationship between terms, like acronym example. could be considered same issue.
- 19:05:45 [aliman]
- guus: prefer to have separate requirements for now. name?
- 19:05:53 [aliman]
- alan: annotations on lexical items, how to represent?
- 19:06:04 [aliman]
- guus: requirement should be, the ability to represent annotations of lexical items.
- 19:06:16 [aliman]
- s/of/on/
- 19:07:30 [aliman]
- antoine: want to control the actions, e.g. for this issue alan has two actions, one is to write dow the general documentation requriements and how to represent in SKOS, then another item to write up preferred label modelling issue
- 19:07:47 [aliman]
- aliman: what is preferred label modelling issue?
- 19:08:11 [aliman]
- antoine: for me it was this issue of lexical values and annotations
- 19:08:40 [aliman]
- aliman: let's get rid of "prefLabel", misleadgin
- 19:08:41 [jar]
- jar has joined #swd
- 19:08:45 [aliman]
- antoine: i'll change
- 19:09:23 [aliman]
- guus: next issue ... MappingToCombination
- 19:09:53 [aliman]
- antoine: ia dded this one, but no referenc ein the minutes for action
- 19:10:51 [aliman]
- guus: conjuecture, have separate req on compositionality, req 8th in list reflects the issue
- 19:11:26 [TomB]
- q+ to ask if we are editing CandidateReqList directly? If so, request to save occasionally.
- 19:11:26 [aliman]
- ... issues are things where we have to propose a resolution on how to this, lead to test cases, if you can't find any req to which an issue refers there is something wrong. based on issues, are there any missing requirements?
- 19:11:44 [aliman]
- ack tomb
- 19:11:44 [Zakim]
- TomB, you wanted to ask if we are editing CandidateReqList directly? If so, request to save occasionally.
- 19:11:46 [TomB]
- q-
- 19:13:15 [aliman]
- guus: specialisation of relationships, we have a req for this ... local specialization of SKOS vocabulary - so this is covered.
- 19:14:00 [aliman]
- ... relationships between labels, we have this one covered by the req mentioned before (number R3)
- 19:15:56 [aliman]
- guus: next set of issues more tricky, because there should be use cases if we admit as requirement
- 19:16:13 [aliman]
- ... (now looking at issue SKOS-I-Rules)
- 19:16:23 [aliman]
- ... need to think of motivating use case where need rule
- 19:16:42 [aliman]
- antoine: manuscripts use cases or any use case where propagate indexing up hierarhcy levels
- 19:17:02 [aliman]
- aliman: SWED use case uses this rule
- 19:17:14 [aliman]
- alan: can do in OWL 1.1 role inclusion
- 19:17:30 [aliman]
- aliman: we're not waiting for owl 1.1
- 19:17:37 [aliman]
- alan: yes but good to be aware
- 19:17:43 [aliman]
- guus: same thing as checking consistency?
- 19:17:51 [aliman]
- aliman: no, more about inferring new information
- 19:18:36 [aliman]
- guus: SWRL document, first example has a rule like, relationships between artists and styles, can derive the relationship.
- 19:18:45 [alanr]
- http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/~horrocks/DAML/Rules/
- 19:19:05 [aliman]
- antoine: rule [from SWRL] more complicated than indexing example but similar
- 19:19:15 [aliman]
- guus: have anumber of use cases, what is formulation of requirement?
- 19:23:06 [aliman]
- ... not talking about part of skos specification. what could be part of skos specification is bt and nt are inverse of each other, rt is symmetric, bt nt transitive?
- 19:23:27 [aliman]
- ... originally sean mentioned this issue because ruiles in skos
- 19:24:50 [aliman]
- guus: doesn't currently give rise to requirement, might if we resolve this.
- 19:25:09 [aliman]
- ... 2.1.2. SKOS-I-ConceptSchemesContainment . ..
- 19:25:39 [aliman]
- ... the semantics of containment withing particular vocabulary./ontology is not clear.
- 19:26:20 [aliman]
- steve: is this also strictly contains/is contained by, or is alan calculus, all different modalities of containment, connection, proximity, applies for temporailty and spatiality ...
- 19:26:51 [aliman]
- alan: technical issue, can hook up a concept to a concept scheme via a property, but can't do the same for a triple
- 19:27:50 [aliman]
- steve: problem is e.g. with gazetteers, often strict containment e.g. DC area overlaps with other areas
- 19:28:11 [aliman]
- ... so next step beyond strict containment that talks about whether things are next to each other.
- 19:28:32 [aliman]
- antoine: more about reification, statements made in the context of specific concept scheme
- 19:28:37 [aliman]
- aliman: concrete use case?
- 19:28:53 [aliman]
- alan: case came up yesterday, equivalence from one point of view
- 19:29:48 [aliman]
- guus: hesitant on this issue, goes beyond level of RDF OWL, e.g. look at RDF/OWL ontologies, containment is implied by containment in files, i.e. informally, but if RDF OWL didn't give any semantics to that, why do it in SKOS?
- 19:30:00 [aliman]
- alan: because if needed in this domain then yes.
- 19:30:25 [aliman]
- ... reify, don't use RDF reification, promote relationships to individuals, can describe any properties of the relationship
- 19:31:44 [aliman]
- ... e.g. look at a mapping [draws on white board]
- 19:32:32 [aliman]
- how do point a statement to the containing scheme
- 19:32:50 [aliman]
- ... something close to that RDF reification
- 19:33:37 [aliman]
- guus: suggest we post a candidate req, have an explicit representation of the containment of concepts or relations
- 19:33:59 [aliman]
- ... any element of a concept scheme (could include concepts, relationships) ... rdf/owl soolution is implicit
- 19:34:09 [aliman]
- ... have to make this explicit
- 19:35:55 [aliman]
- alan: requirement would be, relationships need to be explicitliy associated with scheme, also concepts
- 19:36:10 [aliman]
- guus: also specify for concepts, for both there is a requirement
- 19:36:50 [aliman]
- guus: good to know if it's part of original vocab, or if someone added it
- 19:37:19 [aliman]
- alan: understanding was, asymettric equivalence, can't do without ???
- 19:38:01 [aliman]
- guus: almost all tools have way to ask [SPAARQL] can ask the database question and the logical question, which is two different things
- 19:38:16 [aliman]
- ... e.g. can ask direct subclass of, does it eist, or has it been inferred?
- 19:38:39 [aliman]
- alan: direct vs. indirect different from told vs. inverred
- 19:38:59 [aliman]
- antoine: really close i think to asserted vs. inferred
- 19:39:12 [aliman]
- guus: could be that this is solved at query level and not at representation level
- 19:39:28 [aliman]
- alan: may have inferred intervening class, therefore problems are not quite same
- 19:39:56 [aliman]
- antoine: at dutch library which has broader links which are redundant,
- 19:40:19 [aliman]
- ... e.g. asserted closure
- 19:40:34 [aliman]
- steve: get from forward chaining ...
- 19:40:47 [aliman]
- guus: candidate requirement for the moment, can always disregard
- 19:45:25 [aliman]
- the ability to explicitly represent the containment of any individual which is an instance of a SKOS class (e.g. skos:Concept) or statement that uses SKOS property as predicate (e.g. skos:broader) within a concept scheme
- 19:45:36 [aliman]
- the ability to explicitly represent the containment of any individual which is an instance of a SKOS class (e.g. skos:Concept) or statement that uses SKOS property as predicate (e.g. skos:broader) within a concept scheme
- 19:47:22 [aliman]
- guus: understand by now then happy
- 19:48:12 [aliman]
- ... issues from previous KSOS issues list ... collections-5 ... fix expression of disjointness between concepts and collections
- 19:49:25 [aliman]
- ... doesn't generate representationrequirement
- 19:49:37 [kjetilk]
- s/KSOS/SKOS/
- 19:50:53 [aliman]
- ... do we have policy on using SKOS namespace for something not in SKOS ... issue in OWL, parsers should flag but otherwise continue as normally, triples using bad URIs get no semantics
- 19:50:56 [TomB]
- http://www.w3.org/TR/swbp-skos-core-spec/ defines skos:ConceptScheme as a set of concepts, but not necessarily skos:Concepts... correct?
- 19:51:24 [aliman]
- guus: allow people to use extensions that later on
- 19:51:27 [aliman]
- ack tom
- 19:52:26 [aliman]
- tomb: also ability to extend SKOS, e.g. other types of concept
- 19:52:52 [aliman]
- ... other class in other namespaces then are we covered?
- 19:52:58 [aliman]
- aliman: always subclass skos:Concept
- 19:53:50 [aliman]
- tomb: conflict between notion of defining containment of entities belonging to SKOS namespace, then have notion of extensibility then other namespaces used?
- 19:55:11 [aliman]
- tomb: what can a concept scheme contain? limited by class skos:Concept? should that be stated somewhere?
- 19:57:45 [aliman]
- ... has implications for what is containable inside a skos concept scheme.
- 19:59:59 [aliman]
- guus: raise general issue on how to represent SKOS semantics, not at all trivial, good feeling of what semantics should be, but how to represent is another thing
- 20:06:50 [aliman]
- ACTION: alistair to raise a new issue about USE X + Y and USE X OR Y
- 20:06:59 [timbl]
- timbl has joined #swd
- 20:08:55 [aliman]
- guus: metaphor aliman jsut gave between descriptor and non-descriptor is excellent to help explain what these things mean, really from ... just want to have same term on a card.
- 20:10:00 [aliman]
- alan: explain what indexing meant, explain descriptors and non-descriptors
- 20:10:23 [aliman]
- ... guus showed in demo groupings of terms that were not terms
- 20:11:00 [aliman]
- .. in final session talk about scheduling
- 20:14:36 [aliman]
- *message to other other group ralphs timbl ben to come back to main room in 5 minutes*
- 20:17:12 [RalphS]
- *message being relayed*
- 20:26:24 [Zakim]
- -TomB
- 20:27:18 [Zakim]
- +??P19
- 20:29:25 [berrueta]
- berrueta has joined #swd
- 20:31:40 [FabienG]
- FabienG has joined #swd
- 20:31:58 [kjetilk]
- ScribeNick: kjetilk
- 20:32:04 [kjetilk]
- we resume now
- 20:32:25 [timbl]
- timbl has joined #swd
- 20:32:56 [RalphS]
- zakim, who's still on the phone?
- 20:32:56 [Zakim]
- On the phone I see MeetingRoom, Elisa_Kendall, TomB
- 20:32:57 [Zakim]
- MeetingRoom has JonP, IvanHerman, Ralph, Antoine, Guus, TimBL, Alistair, Diego, Ben, Kjetil, Fabien, Jonathan_Rees, Stephen_Williams, AlanR
- 20:33:27 [RalphS]
- zakim, meetingroom no longer has Jonathan_Rees, AlanR
- 20:33:27 [Zakim]
- -Jonathan_Rees, AlanR; got it
- 20:34:54 [benadida]
- benadida has joined #SWD
- 20:35:48 [kjetilk]
- The wiki is uptodate, but is being transferred to tracker
- 20:36:11 [benadida]
- ACTION: Ben to update issues list with the @CLASS overload problem
- 20:36:33 [kjetilk]
- did not get to the GRDDL issues
- 20:36:49 [kjetilk]
- did not discuss planning
- 20:36:59 [kjetilk]
- Guus: we should discuss it now
- 20:37:52 [TomB]
- http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/wiki/Deliverables
- 20:40:06 [alanr]
- alanr has joined #swd
- 20:41:44 [kjetilk]
- Guus: we should decide REC or NOTE in april
- 20:42:02 [RalphS]
- zakim, AlanR has returned to meetingroom
- 20:42:02 [Zakim]
- sorry, RalphS, I do not recognize a party named 'AlanR'
- 20:42:11 [kjetilk]
- Guus: before the summer, we should have last call in the case of REC
- 20:42:19 [RalphS]
- zakim, AlanR has arrived in meetingroom
- 20:42:19 [Zakim]
- +AlanR; got it
- 20:42:41 [kjetilk]
- Guus: we could ask for CR by october
- 20:43:06 [kjetilk]
- Guus: that would get us to REC by the end of the charter
- 20:43:39 [kjetilk]
- there should be one WD before the last call
- 20:44:03 [kjetilk]
- benadida: we should have the WD just before the REC decision
- 20:45:15 [kjetilk]
- Guus: we need to pay close attention to the outside world
- 20:45:31 [kjetilk]
- RalphS: we don't know the status of a XHTML 2.0 WG
- 20:46:18 [benadida]
- ACTION: Ben to update RDFa schedule on wiki to aim for last call on June 1
- 20:46:40 [kjetilk]
- the other breakout session
- 20:46:55 [kjetilk]
- aliman: we went through a sandbox list
- 20:47:35 [RalphS]
- -> http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/wiki/SkosIssuesSandbox
- 20:47:40 [kjetilk]
- aliman: we also included some new requirements
- 20:49:04 [RalphS]
- -> http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/wiki/CandidateReqList SKOS Requirements List Sandbox
- 20:50:23 [kjetilk]
- aliman: we had a long and philosophical discussion of the wording of point 22
- 20:52:07 [kjetilk]
- Guus: what would be a reasonable schedule for coming up with a first WD?
- 20:52:17 [kjetilk]
- Guus: it doesn't need to be complete
- 20:52:25 [kjetilk]
- Guus: just useful for review
- 20:53:02 [kjetilk]
- Guus: by march would be realistic
- 20:53:14 [kjetilk]
- Antoine: yes, it sounds doable
- 20:55:26 [kjetilk]
- aliman: we just have a primer and a formal spec
- 20:55:36 [kjetilk]
- and a reference overview document
- 20:57:16 [kjetilk]
- aliman: the problem with the guide is that it does two things, like give an introduction to SKOS as well as defining some of the semantics
- 20:59:08 [alanr]
- http://www.zuser.org/z/
- 20:59:43 [RalphS]
- Alistair: I used Z for the formal specification language for my thesis
- 21:00:23 [kjetilk]
- ivan: I sweated a lot over Z
- 21:02:03 [Steven]
- Steven has joined #swd
- 21:06:15 [kjetilk]
- aliman: we have a few high-profile users of thesauri that are involved
- 21:06:26 [Zakim]
- +[IPcaller]
- 21:07:03 [kjetilk]
- ACTION: aliman to update the schedule for SKOS documents
- 21:07:40 [aliman]
- q+ to ask about iterations for skos
- 21:07:55 [timbl]
- q-
- 21:08:29 [kjetilk]
- ack RalphS
- 21:08:29 [Zakim]
- RalphS, you wanted to ask about serial v. parallel work
- 21:12:59 [kjetilk]
- Guus: we have come to the end of the agenda
- 21:13:18 [kjetilk]
- Guus: I think we should ajourn
- 21:13:31 [kjetilk]
- Guus: it has been a very productive meeting
- 21:14:03 [kjetilk]
- Guus: thanks to everyone for the participation, including those on the phone
- 21:14:14 [kjetilk]
- Guus: next f2f around june?
- 21:15:32 [Zakim]
- -Elisa_Kendall
- 21:16:14 [Antoine]
- Antoine has left #swd
- 21:16:20 [RalphS]
- [adjourned]
- 21:16:35 [TomB]
- RalphS - next meeting could not be in Banff?
- 21:16:39 [berrueta]
- berrueta has left #swd
- 21:18:27 [Zakim]
- -TomB.a
- 21:19:30 [Zakim]
- -MeetingRoom
- 21:21:40 [Zakim]
- SW_SWD(f2f)8:30AM has ended
- 21:21:42 [Zakim]
- Attendees were JonP, IvanHerman, Ralph, Michael_Hausenblas, Antoine, Guus, Steven, TimBL, Alistair, Diego, TomB, Ben, Mark_Birbeck, Kjetil, Fabien, +1.617.475.aaaa,
- 21:21:45 [Zakim]
- ... +1.617.475.aabb, Jonathan_Rees, Stephen_Williams, Elisa_Kendall, AlanR, +49.551.39.aacc, MeetingRoom
- 21:21:53 [RalphS]
- rrsagent, please draft minutes
- 21:21:53 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/01/23-swd-minutes.html RalphS
- 21:22:32 [RalphS]
- rrsagent, bye
- 21:22:32 [RRSAgent]
- I see 10 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2007/01/23-swd-actions.rdf :
- 21:22:32 [RRSAgent]
- ACTION: Ben start a list of RDF/XML features that are not supported by RDFa [1]
- 21:22:32 [RRSAgent]
- recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/01/23-swd-irc#T14-31-29
- 21:22:32 [RRSAgent]
- ACTION: Ben to write down the relation between GRDDL and RDFa [2]
- 21:22:32 [RRSAgent]
- recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/01/23-swd-irc#T16-17-40
- 21:22:32 [RRSAgent]
- ACTION: Guss to flag the issue of RDFa REC track on the coordination group [3]
- 21:22:32 [RRSAgent]
- recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/01/23-swd-irc#T16-45-33
- 21:22:32 [RRSAgent]
- ACTION: Ben to get the docs in good shape for next week [4]
- 21:22:32 [RRSAgent]
- recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/01/23-swd-irc#T16-46-49
- 21:22:32 [RRSAgent]
- ACTION: Guus to contact persons working on versioning in KnowledgeWeb [5]
- 21:22:32 [RRSAgent]
- recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/01/23-swd-irc#T17-24-58
- 21:22:32 [RRSAgent]
- ACTION: Elisa to give first overview of what the status of the doc is and add comments and coordinate work on doc [6]
- 21:22:32 [RRSAgent]
- recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/01/23-swd-irc#T17-44-27
- 21:22:32 [RRSAgent]
- ACTION: alistair to raise a new issue about USE X + Y and USE X OR Y [7]
- 21:22:32 [RRSAgent]
- recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/01/23-swd-irc#T20-06-50
- 21:22:32 [RRSAgent]
- ACTION: Ben to update issues list with the @CLASS overload problem [8]
- 21:22:32 [RRSAgent]
- recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/01/23-swd-irc#T20-36-11
- 21:22:32 [RRSAgent]
- ACTION: Ben to update RDFa schedule on wiki to aim for last call on June 1 [9]
- 21:22:32 [RRSAgent]
- recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/01/23-swd-irc#T20-46-18
- 21:22:32 [RRSAgent]
- ACTION: aliman to update the schedule for SKOS documents [10]
- 21:22:32 [RRSAgent]
- recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/01/23-swd-irc#T21-07-03