18:31:13 RRSAgent has joined #ua 18:31:13 logging to http://www.w3.org/2006/11/30-ua-irc 18:57:39 JR has joined #ua 18:58:17 Scribe: JR 18:58:38 parente has joined #ua 18:58:45 WAI_UAWG()2:00PM has now started 18:58:47 +Jim_Allan 18:59:07 title: UAWG Conference Call 18:59:34 +[IBM] 18:59:36 -[IBM] 18:59:37 +[IBM] 18:59:44 agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2006OctDec/0027.html 19:00:06 zakim, [IBM] is parente 19:00:06 +parente; got it 19:01:56 +??P12 19:02:12 zakim, [??P12] is JR 19:02:12 sorry, JR, I do not recognize a party named '[??P12]' 19:02:20 zakim, [P12] is JR 19:02:20 sorry, JR, I do not recognize a party named '[P12]' 19:02:43 zakim, [??P12] is JR 19:02:43 sorry, JR, I do not recognize a party named '[??P12]' 19:02:52 zakim, ??P12 is JR 19:02:52 +JR; got it 19:06:00 Topic: 10.1 Associate table cells and headers (P1) 19:07:40 JR: Confused about sufficient techniques 19:07:46 JA: But these are not normative 19:08:42 JT: ATAG uses "sufficient in conjunction" 19:08:50 JT=JR 19:09:12 JR: in cases where both techniques should work together to meet the normative req 19:09:47 JA: So Peter does ScReader just grab DOM? 19:10:02 PP: Not on Linux - we depend on what Firefox gives us 19:10:29 PP: But we can get table info through API 19:10:57 JA: So doesn't matter about the visual things in 10.1? 19:11:25 JA: Thinks that separate from visul rendering, there should be an underlying structure. 19:11:41 PP: Right as long as proper table structure is used 19:12:43 JA: CSS craziness plays in here. 19:12:55 +[IBM] 19:12:55 PP: Welcome to Web 2.0 :) 19:13:47 cklaws has joined #ua 19:14:01 zakim, [IBM] is cklaws 19:14:01 +cklaws; got it 19:14:06 zakim, [IBM] is cklaws 19:14:06 sorry, JR, I do not recognize a party named '[IBM]' 19:14:09 zakim, IBM is cklaws 19:14:09 sorry, JR, I do not recognize a party named 'IBM' 19:14:46 JA: Where should this logic be done? 19:14:56 PP: Browser probably will pass. 19:15:09 PP: But in Linux we can 19:15:17 PP:can't get DOM 19:15:36 CL: Right on Windows we go to DOM because MSAA not rich enough 19:16:56 CL: Only browser knows what source is... 19:17:25 CL: (mean all the components of the browser) 19:19:10 CL: if the author used only css to structure a table, then the browser should the provide the structure of the css layout to accessibility api 19:21:17 JA: CSS includes some specific table structure properties 19:21:34 JA: SHould we require UA's to figure this CSS out? 19:22:46 action: JA Issue SHould we require UA's to figure this CSS out, and privide strudture to the accessibility api? 19:23:34 Group meeting 19:23:38 http://www.w3.org/2007/01/MGMoverview.html 19:23:55 JA: Our group meeting has been approved for Jan 21,22 19:24:07 C: Peter and Cathy are approved to go 19:24:33 CL: Rich wants PF and UA to have a joint meeting. 19:25:05 JR: AU is likely to pullout. 19:25:51 JA: Still not quite getting his chair status. 19:26:15 Clarify: JA is the chair, but just in terms of the automated w3 system 19:26:38 JA: We have 3 more meeting after today and before xmas 19:27:08 CL: PP and CL to miss Nov 22 mtg 19:27:42 Correction: Dec 21st 19:28:12 Dec 28 no mtg 19:29:09 JA: OK Let's hustle and work on list to try and get our walkthrough done by around end of year... 19:29:22 so a few weeks to prep for f2f 19:30:23 JA: would also like to discuss WCAG, UAAG split 19:31:03 Topic: 10.2 Highlight selection, content focus, enabled elements, visited links 19:32:15 JA: No particular issue - but brings up same old OS-UA-author stylesheet issue 19:32:50 JA: ABBR expansion issue related - AT's do lot's of handling 19:33:01 CL: Where in 10.2? 19:33:17 JA: Not - just reminds me of the same bundle of issues 19:36:13 JR: Asks about figure in 10.1, seems to be a mockup? 19:36:27 Action JA: Remove image in 10.1 19:38:35 JR: 10.2 seems to be overly complicated - who uses font family as a highlighting? 19:38:57 action JA: maybe highlight 10.2 for further discussion 19:39:32 CL: Selection info comes from different place 19:39:58 CL: DOM has focus events 19:40:21 CL: But for example if gighlighted with text style, have to go to OS for that 19:41:11 action JA: Cross check 10.2 with earlier checkpoint - maybe duplicate 19:41:44 CL: Look at 4.3 and 9.1. 19:42:21 JA: Maybe also 9.3 19:42:39 Topic: 10.3 Single highlight configuration (P2) 19:43:54 JR: This is yet another modifier-type checkpoint 19:44:17 JA: We have lots of confuration checkpoints 19:44:38 JA: If we say do this - later we say and allow it to be configured 19:44:56 Action JA: Think about larger organization of "configurastion" 19:45:17 JA: Does ScReader care? 19:45:30 PP: Not really - we just get from API. 19:46:34 JA: ScreenMags on Win are using MSAA 19:46:57 PP: On Linux ScreenMags are driven by Screen Readers 19:47:30 Topic: 10.4 Provide outline view (P2) 19:48:06 JA: Didn't Safari do something with this? 19:49:34 JR: IF not navigable - not useful - if navigable it becomes structured navigation 19:49:50 PP: Useful for someone with low vision 19:49:59 CL: Or cognitive disabilities 19:50:56 JR: Agree with JA to drop TITLE from outline 19:51:37 JA: See your point Cathy that it would not need to be navigable 19:52:43 JA: Is this too granular - almost technique of 9.9 or important on its own. 19:52:49 JA: ? 19:53:01 CL: Intent different than navigation. 19:53:23 CL: Much like in word, a TOC can be created. 19:55:27 CL: Aaron came back..."no one ever does that" 19:55:47 that=(CSS table markup) 19:56:21 CL: Firefox does not support 19:56:49 10.4 for folks with cognitive issues this is important for non-cluttered visual view 19:57:59 CL: Most CSS things came through to IE DOM as DOM style 19:58:39 CL: Aaron says mostly conveyed through role attribute and computed style attributes 19:59:00 CL: role=table cells, etc 19:59:23 CL: Browser assigns the role 20:00:09 JA: Let's wrap up this call 20:00:25 JA: Let's try to handle JR and JA's comments on the list 20:00:35 -cklaws 20:00:37 -parente 20:00:39 -Jim_Allan 20:00:48 RRSAgent, make minutes 20:00:48 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2006/11/30-ua-minutes.html JR 20:00:55 RRSAgent, set logs public 20:03:37 Zakim, bye 20:03:37 leaving. As of this point the attendees were Jim_Allan, parente, JR, cklaws 20:03:37 Zakim has left #ua 20:03:42 RRSAgent, bye 20:03:42 I see 5 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2006/11/30-ua-actions.rdf : 20:03:42 ACTION: JA Issue SHould we require UA's to figure this CSS out, and privide strudture to the accessibility api? [1] 20:03:42 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/11/30-ua-irc#T19-22-46 20:03:42 ACTION: JA to Remove image in 10.1 [2] 20:03:42 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/11/30-ua-irc#T19-36-27 20:03:42 ACTION: JA to maybe highlight 10.2 for further discussion [3] 20:03:42 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/11/30-ua-irc#T19-38-57 20:03:42 ACTION: JA to Cross check 10.2 with earlier checkpoint - maybe duplicate [4] 20:03:42 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/11/30-ua-irc#T19-41-11 20:03:42 ACTION: JA to Think about larger organization of "configurastion" [5] 20:03:42 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/11/30-ua-irc#T19-44-56