15:58:03 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #sweo
15:58:03 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2006/11/29-sweo-irc
15:58:08 <LeeF> zakim, this will be SWEO
15:58:08 <Zakim> ok, LeeF; I see SW_SWEO()11:00AM scheduled to start in 2 minutes
15:58:20 <LeeF> zakim, code?
15:58:20 <Zakim> the conference code is 7936 (tel:+1.617.761.6200), LeeF
15:58:31 <davidr> davidr has joined #sweo
15:58:39 <Zakim> SW_SWEO()11:00AM has now started
15:58:46 <Zakim> +[IBMCambridge]
15:58:52 <Zakim> +??P5
15:58:57 <LeeF> zakim, IBMCambridge is wing
15:58:57 <Zakim> +wing; got it
15:59:33 <Zakim> + +1.631.205.aaaa
16:00:15 <Zakim> +Lee_Feigenbaum
16:00:19 <LeeF> Zakim, Lee_Feigenbaum is me
16:00:20 <Zakim> +LeeF; got it
16:00:42 <Zakim> +??P10
16:00:47 <LeeF> zakim, who's on the phone?
16:00:47 <Zakim> On the phone I see wing, ??P5, +1.631.205.aaaa, LeeF, ??P10
16:00:57 <Zakim> +??P11
16:01:28 <Zakim> + +1.781.273.aabb
16:01:29 <Zakim> + +1.316.393.aacc
16:01:38 <kidehen> kidehen has joined #sweo
16:01:44 <Zakim> +??P15
16:02:01 <LeeF> Zakim, P15 is davidr
16:02:01 <Zakim> sorry, LeeF, I do not recognize a party named 'P15'
16:02:08 <LeeF> Zakim, ??p15 is davidr
16:02:08 <Zakim> +davidr; got it
16:02:26 <LeeF> Zakim, 781 is kingsley
16:02:26 <Zakim> sorry, LeeF, I do not recognize a party named '781'
16:02:35 <LeeF> zakim, aabb is Kingsley
16:02:36 <Zakim> +Kingsley; got it
16:02:43 <uldis> uldis has joined #sweo
16:03:06 <kidehen> Kingsley is kidehen :-)
16:03:14 <LeeF> zakim, kingsley is kidehen
16:03:14 <Zakim> +kidehen; got it
16:03:17 <LeeF> sorry :-)
16:03:28 <LeeF> Scribe: davidr
16:03:32 <LeeF> ScribeNick: davidr
16:03:36 <LeeF> Chair: Susie
16:03:41 <LeeF> Meeting: SWEO Weekly
16:03:45 <Zakim> +??P21
16:04:13 <LeeF> zakim, ??P21 is Uldis_Bojars
16:04:13 <Zakim> +Uldis_Bojars; got it
16:04:18 <davidr> susie: begins meeting and summarises todays objectives
16:04:33 <LeeF> Regrets: IvanH, Karen, Pasquale, Paul_Miller, Martiz_Dzbor
16:05:06 <LeeF> Zakim, aacc is Jeff_Schiffel
16:05:06 <Zakim> +Jeff_Schiffel; got it
16:05:25 <davidr> susie: Leo joins SWEO - please introduce yourself
16:05:34 <LeeF> Zakim, ??P11 is Sami_Bhiri
16:05:34 <Zakim> +Sami_Bhiri; got it
16:05:49 <LeeF> Zakim, Uldis_Bojars is uldis
16:05:49 <Zakim> +uldis; got it
16:06:05 <LeeF> zakim, who's on the phone?
16:06:05 <Zakim> On the phone I see wing, ??P5, +1.631.205.aaaa, LeeF, ??P10, Sami_Bhiri, kidehen, Jeff_Schiffel, davidr, uldis
16:06:12 <LeeF> zakim, ??P5 is Susie
16:06:13 <Zakim> +Susie; got it
16:06:38 <davidr> susie: main item of work is getting the questionnaire finished
16:06:38 <LeeF> zakim, ??P10 is Ina
16:06:38 <Zakim> +Ina; got it
16:06:49 <leobard> leobard has joined #SWEO
16:06:51 <davidr> susie: question have been posted to wiki for comment
16:07:12 <davidr> susie: a few comments have been made which we need to reivew
16:07:16 <LeeF> zakim, who's on the phone?
16:07:16 <Zakim> On the phone I see wing, Susie, +1.631.205.aaaa, LeeF, Ina, Sami_Bhiri, kidehen, Jeff_Schiffel, davidr, uldis
16:07:34 <davidr> susie: we need to get the questions to a point where we can send them out
16:07:55 <leobard> LeeF: germany, DFKI phone +49 631 205 ..
16:08:11 <LeeF> zakim, aaaa is leobard
16:08:11 <Zakim> +leobard; got it
16:08:12 <davidr> susie: comment 1: can we add 'what does the semantic werb mean to you?'
16:08:26 <davidr> s/werb/web
16:09:24 <Susie> http://esw.w3.org/topic/SweoIG/TaskForces/CoreMessaging
16:09:35 <davidr> susie: comment 2: can we add 'how do you think your organisation could benefit from semantic technologies?'
16:09:43 <Zakim> + +30273aadd
16:10:18 <davidr> lee: good questions buit i dont think they are going to give us much
16:10:55 <davidr> susie: lets stick with the initital set of questions
16:12:18 <davidr> susie: there were some other question proposals
16:12:56 <davidr> susie: we decided at the f2f that if we require more detailed responses we would send out a follow-up querstionnaire
16:13:09 <LeeF> Zakim, aadd is Orri
16:13:09 <Zakim> +Orri; got it
16:13:48 <davidr> s/querstionnaire/questionnaire
16:14:12 <davidr> susie: the questions we have are ready for review
16:15:23 <davidr> susie: should we send out audience to broader audience or just vendors/w3c memebers
16:15:39 <davidr> s/audience/questionnaire
16:16:41 <davidr> wing: i agree that we should send to a broader audience, but we may only get responses from those passionate for sw
16:17:38 <davidr> susie: think we need to discuss this further
16:18:16 <Ina> Ina has joined #SWEO
16:19:17 <sami> sami has joined #SWEO
16:19:19 <davidr> susie: we're hoping for about 75% response rate from the questionnaires
16:21:38 <davidr> susie: ... onto outreach to developer community
16:22:03 <leobard> whats the name of the suggested person to lead it?
16:22:15 <davidr> susie: was hoping that Paul Walsh would be on the call
16:22:15 <wing> paul walsh
16:23:31 <wing> davidr: Paul is currently the chair of BIMA (British Interactive Media Association), has a lot of Web2.0 contacts
16:26:46 <davidr> susie: we decided during f2f that sw and web2.0 are very complimentary
16:27:44 <davidr> lee: there is a difference between wwb developers and high level web communities 
16:28:10 <davidr> lee: there is different messaging required depending on who we are approaching
16:28:52 <davidr> susie: we got 2 main groups, enterprise & developers/web2.0
16:29:26 <davidr> susie: messaging should be tailored to the community we are targetting
16:30:56 <kidehen> Susie: Link please :-)
16:31:45 <davidr> susie: lets focus on web community for now, Paul Walsh has expressed an interest in leading this
16:31:51 <LeeF> Zakim, who's on the phone?
16:31:52 <Zakim> On the phone I see wing, Susie, leobard, LeeF, Ina, Sami_Bhiri, kidehen, Jeff_Schiffel, davidr, uldis, Orri
16:32:01 <LeeF> zakim,  Sami_Bhiri is sami
16:32:01 <Zakim> +sami; got it
16:32:24 <davidr> susie: Danny Ayers has offered to lead the software demo aspect
16:32:29 <leobard> who leads "hands on"?
16:33:21 <kidehen> LeeF: It was kidehen speaking
16:34:26 <davidr> susie: if anyone knows of anyone who should be added to the 'key people' list then let me know
16:34:50 <davidr> susie: when should we approach these people?
16:35:23 <davidr> susie: PW suggested getting TBL to do some interviews with bloggers
16:36:20 <davidr> susie: maybe we can bounce ideas off the friendly people first before sending out to community at large
16:38:05 <davidr> kidehen: SW architecture (RDF-XML) is difficult to understand and not helping our cause. we should address this. lets get a very clear diagram of the SW. 
16:38:43 <uldis> not so much all architecture than RDF-XML in particular
16:39:11 <davidr> susie: we're hoping that the questionnaire will help us acheive this
16:39:49 <davidr> susie: does anyone want to draft up a 'myth busting' document?
16:39:52 <LeeF> I think we should be wary about assuming we know why people object to SW. I've heard SW community people repeat "RDF/XML is the problem!" so often now that I'm tempted to think it's somewhat urban legend.  (This is reinforced by my personal experience talking to people w/ SW reservations.)
16:40:00 <davidr> susie: anyone?
16:40:34 <leobard> we could show how simple rdf/xml can be, for example: http://esw.w3.org/topic/SimpleRdfXml
16:41:19 <LeeF> e.g., I seriously doubt that Tim O'reilly's primary objections to the Semantic Web surround RDF/XML (though I'd be thrilled to be enlightened otherwise, as it's such an easy myth to dispel!)
16:41:20 <uldis> leobard: xml serialisations are confusing in general, make one think of xml first and get stuck on this idea
16:41:24 <uldis> N3 is better
16:41:31 <davidr> susie: back to web outreach...
16:41:49 <kidehen> LeeF: The RDF/XML issue is a problem because it permeates all Semantic Web Material
16:42:20 <LeeF> is it this?
16:42:20 <LeeF> http://www.w3.org/DesignIssues/diagrams/sweb-stack/2006a.png
16:42:59 <wing> I agree with LeeF; we should wait until we have some real responses from people, otherwise we can guess at what people don't like until we're blue in the face
16:44:44 <davidr> who is talking?
16:44:52 <uldis> kidehen
16:44:59 <davidr> thanks
16:45:34 <davidr> kidehen: getting architecture diagram right gives us a great launching pad for getting messaging right
16:46:03 <leobard> tool-suggestion: dia (open source)
16:46:20 <davidr> ive used dia, its not bad
16:46:33 <leobard> http://www.gnome.org/projects/dia/
16:46:33 <uldis> wing: first questionaires will be very generic and there's no guarantee that RDF/XML issues will appear in the answers even if people are thinking of RDF mainly as XML. There's also a possibility they are not aware that this is a misconception
16:46:59 <uldis> followup questionaires can provide more details 
16:48:04 <wing> http://wingerz.com/semweb/layer.png
16:48:16 <LeeF> wing: LOL
16:48:58 <davidr> :)
16:49:05 <Susie> http://esw.w3.org/topic/SweoIG/TaskForces/InfoGathering
16:49:52 <uldis> wing: :D [is that a red duct tape? ;) ]
16:50:03 <Zakim> This conference is scheduled to end in 10 minutes; all ports must be freed
16:50:19 <wing> LeeF: Done
16:51:12 <davidr> leo: we need to outreach to the db & dev guys differently
16:51:47 <davidr> leo: e.g. getting started with the SW for a DB and getting started with the SW for a DEV
16:53:48 <davidr> kidenhen: if we can we should take what we already have (tutorials, demos etc) and build on top of that
16:55:04 <Zakim> This conference is scheduled to end in 5 minutes; all ports must be freed
16:56:01 <davidr> susie: at f2f we decided to get the core messaging right first and then customise for different levels of the business tier, different industries etc
16:57:21 <sami> sami has joined #SWEO
16:58:04 <Zakim> This conference is scheduled to end in 2 minutes; all ports must be freed
16:58:38 <LeeF> Zakim, can we have more time, please?
16:58:39 <Zakim> I don't understand your question, LeeF.
16:58:42 <LeeF> yeah i didn't think you would
16:58:59 <davidr> LOL
16:59:02 <Zakim> This conference is scheduled to end in 1 minute; 8 ports must be freed
16:59:09 <LeeF> Zakim, give it up
16:59:09 <Zakim> I don't understand 'give it up', LeeF
16:59:25 <wing> Zakim, LeeF
16:59:25 <Zakim> I don't understand 'LeeF', wing
16:59:43 <leobard> sorry, who was talking?
16:59:52 <LeeF> That was kidehen
16:59:57 <leobard> thx
17:00:01 <Zakim> This conference is scheduled to end now; 8 ports must be freed immediately
17:00:07 <Zakim> The time reserved for this conference has been exceeded. 8 ports must be freed
17:00:17 <LeeF> Zakim, reserve more time
17:00:18 <Zakim> I don't understand 'reserve more time', LeeF
17:00:23 <LeeF> zakim, extend conference
17:00:23 <Zakim> I don't understand 'extend conference', LeeF
17:00:58 <davidr> zakim, chill out
17:01:03 <Zakim> I don't understand 'chill out', davidr
17:01:19 <leobard> susie: suggestion was to use del.icio.us and tags to gather links
17:01:27 <leobard> susie: suggested tag is w3csweo
17:02:08 <Zakim> -Susie
17:02:09 <Zakim> -Orri
17:02:10 <Zakim> -Ina
17:02:11 <Zakim> -leobard
17:02:11 <Zakim> -Jeff_Schiffel
17:02:13 <Zakim> -sami
17:02:14 <Zakim> -kidehen
17:02:15 <Zakim> -LeeF
17:02:17 <Zakim> -uldis
17:02:21 <Zakim> -wing
17:02:22 <Zakim> -davidr
17:02:23 <Zakim> SW_SWEO()11:00AM has ended
17:02:25 <Zakim> Attendees were wing, +1.631.205.aaaa, LeeF, +1.781.273.aabb, +1.316.393.aacc, davidr, kidehen, Jeff_Schiffel, uldis, Susie, Ina, leobard, +30273aadd, Orri, sami
17:02:36 <Susie> ACTION: Susie to send questionnaires to W3C PR for review
17:03:08 <Susie> ACTION: Susie to write cover letter for questionnaires
17:03:51 <Susie> ACTION: Kingsley to send comments on the layer cake to mailing list
17:04:02 <wing> wing has left #sweo
17:04:20 <Susie> ACTION: Susie to post 'myths' to the Wiki
17:06:08 <Susie> ACTION: Orri to draft follow up questionnaires that are targeted to application areas. 
17:06:58 <Susie> I believe that's all the new action items.
17:07:09 <uldis> uldis has left #sweo
17:07:17 <Susie> Lee - It'd be great if you could help make sure that the minutes are saved
17:09:08 <LeeF> Yup
17:09:15 <LeeF> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
17:09:15 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2006/11/29-sweo-minutes.html LeeF
17:09:23 <LeeF> RRSAgent, make logs world-access
17:09:37 <LeeF> RRSAgent, stop logging
17:09:37 <RRSAgent> I'm logging. I don't understand 'stop logging', LeeF.  Try /msg RRSAgent help
17:09:42 <LeeF> RRSAgent, stop