15:41:39 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #sweo
15:41:39 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2006/11/22-sweo-irc
15:41:47 <ivan> zakim, this will be sweo
15:41:47 <Zakim> ok, ivan; I see SW_SWEO()11:00AM scheduled to start in 19 minutes
15:41:56 <ivan> rrsagent, set log public
15:42:06 <ivan> Chair: Susie
15:42:15 <ivan> Meeting: SW Education and Outreach IG Telco
15:44:18 <ivan> agenda+ Overview of the f2f meeting
15:44:24 <ivan> agenda+ review of action items
15:44:31 <ivan> agenda+ intro to IRC
15:49:32 <martind> martind has joined #SWEO
15:53:46 <LeeF> LeeF has joined #sweo
15:55:07 <ivan> Hi Lee!
15:55:11 <ivan> (and the others)
15:55:18 <LeeF> hello, hello
15:57:13 <Zakim> SW_SWEO()11:00AM has now started
15:57:20 <Zakim> + +1.781.273.aaaa
15:57:26 <Susie> Susie has joined #sweo
15:57:42 <Zakim> + +1.617.970.aabb
15:58:09 <ivan> zakim, dial ivan-home
15:58:09 <Zakim> ok, ivan; the call is being made
15:58:10 <Zakim> +Ivan
15:58:21 <ivan> ???
15:58:28 <ivan> zakim does not call me:-(
15:58:33 <ivan> zakim, drop ivan
15:58:33 <Zakim> Ivan is being disconnected
15:58:35 <Zakim> -Ivan
15:58:40 <ivan> zakim, dial ivan-home
15:58:40 <Zakim> ok, ivan; the call is being made
15:58:42 <Zakim> +Ivan
15:59:04 <ivan> zakim, drop ivan
15:59:04 <Zakim> Ivan is being disconnected
15:59:05 <Zakim> -Ivan
15:59:16 <ivan> zakim, code?
15:59:16 <Zakim> the conference code is 7936 (tel:+1.617.761.6200), ivan
15:59:31 <Zakim> +??P7
15:59:58 <Zakim> +??P8
16:00:04 <Zakim> +??P4
16:00:06 <Zakim> +??P5
16:00:45 <ivan> zakim, aaaa is kidehen
16:00:58 <Zakim> +??P14
16:01:00 <Zakim> +kidehen; got it
16:01:24 <davidr> davidr has joined #sweo
16:01:24 <Zakim> +Karen
16:01:30 <ivan> zakim, aabb is wing
16:01:30 <Zakim> +wing; got it
16:01:42 <ivan> zakim, P7 is ivan
16:01:42 <Zakim> sorry, ivan, I do not recognize a party named 'P7'
16:01:48 <ivan> zakim, ??P7 is ivan
16:01:49 <Zakim> +ivan; got it
16:01:58 <ivan> zakim, ??P8 is susie
16:01:58 <Zakim> +susie; got it
16:02:24 <Zakim> +LeeF
16:02:32 <Karen> Karen has joined #sweo
16:02:41 <uldis> uldis bojars
16:02:44 <ivan> zakim, ??P4 is uldi
16:02:44 <Zakim> +uldi; got it
16:02:45 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
16:02:52 <Karen> Karen Myers, W3C
16:02:52 <LeeF> zakim, mute me
16:02:52 <Zakim> LeeF should now be muted
16:03:07 <ivan> zakim, ??P14 is ina
16:03:07 <Zakim> +ina; got it
16:03:16 <ivan> zakim, who is here?
16:03:16 <Zakim> On the phone I see kidehen, wing, ivan, susie, uldi, ??P5, ina, Karen, LeeF (muted), [IPcaller]
16:03:19 <Zakim> On IRC I see Karen, davidr, Susie, LeeF, martind, RRSAgent, Zakim, ivan, uldis, kidehen
16:03:31 <davidr> zakim, ipcaller is davdr
16:03:32 <Zakim> +davdr; got it
16:03:39 <ivan> zakim, ??P5 martin
16:03:48 <Zakim> I don't understand '??P5 martin', ivan
16:03:57 <ivan> zakim, ??P5 is martin
16:04:03 <uldis> zakim, ??P4 is uldis
16:04:04 <Zakim> +martin; got it
16:04:12 <Zakim> I already had ??P4 as uldi, uldis
16:04:17 <davidr> zakim, davdr is really davidr
16:04:17 <Zakim> +davidr; got it
16:04:44 <Zakim> + +31.30.273.aacc
16:05:13 <kidehen> Orri Erling 
16:05:32 <ivan> zakim, aacc is orri
16:05:33 <Zakim> +orri; got it
16:05:51 <ivan> i am muted
16:06:00 <ivan> so I have to shut up!
16:06:31 <Zakim> +Sandro
16:07:20 <ivan> Scribe: ivan
16:07:26 <ivan> agenda?
16:07:43 <ivan> Topic: short introduction
16:08:20 <ivan> susie: we have a number of new people who joined us, just a brief introduction
16:08:26 <iomurchu> iomurchu has joined #SWEO
16:08:27 <uldis> zakim, unmute uldi
16:08:27 <Zakim> uldi was not muted, uldis
16:08:40 <ivan> ... I do not think that kingsley done before
16:08:51 <wyung> wyung has joined #sweo
16:09:00 <ivan> kinksley: i work both on the entreprise and the vendor side
16:09:08 <ivan> ... typical web2.0 profile
16:09:28 <ivan> ... we see data integration with shared ontologies as a major benefit of the sw that should be projected to the community
16:09:43 <ivan> ... it is also a nice bridge to the web2.0 community
16:10:19 <ivan> ... (scribe is lost by the speed:-(
16:10:53 <ivan> s/kingsley/kingsley/
16:11:10 <ivan> uldi: i am from deri ireland
16:11:18 <ivan> ... i am from the sw cluster there
16:11:30 <ivan> ... we feel need for outreach and education in sw
16:11:50 <ivan> ... we need industry and people to understand it better and that it does not have to be as complex as it seems now
16:11:57 <ivan> ... i work now in sioc
16:12:17 <ivan> ... it aims at making the communities interlinked on the sw
16:12:32 <ivan> ... lots of tools come from that project for people outside
16:12:46 <ivan> ... my interest started before sw
16:13:00 <ivan> ina: i just completed my masters at deri
16:13:10 <ivan> ... i am a researcher there
16:13:23 <ivan> martin:  i am from the open university uk,
16:13:29 <kidehen> ivan: I called it CYOK and Uldis calls it SHOCK in both cases we are referring to Semantically-Interlined Online Communities shared Ontology :-
16:13:32 <kidehen> :-)
16:13:49 <kidehen> SIOC basically
16:13:55 <uldis> interest on sw started before joining deri
16:14:16 <ivan> (will link the intro link to the minutes)
16:14:19 <uldis> and been on #swig as CaptSolo since 2002
16:14:31 <kidehen> ivan: http://sioc-project.org/
16:15:12 <ivan> karen: i am at w3c, member relations and development, i have joined this ig as a resource capacity
16:15:19 <Susie> Regrets – Michael Wilson, Steve Harris, John Davies, Ian Davis, Pasquale Popolizio
16:15:21 <ivan> ... i have a background in communication
16:15:32 <ivan> ori: from openlink sw
16:15:40 <ivan> ... i am a database techie by background
16:15:49 <LeeF> s/ori/orri
16:15:54 <uldis> LeeF: does 'shock' sound bad? (i suggested we stay on one pronounciation, but kidehen says 'shock' does not sound good in north america)
16:15:55 <ivan> ... most recently optimizing for the support of sparql
16:15:58 <kidehen> Ivan: Orri Erling
16:16:08 <ivan> ... I have background in knowledge representation
16:16:24 <ivan> ... i am happy to combine these things in the sw which requires both types of expertise
16:16:28 <LeeF> uldis: It's fine to my ears :-) 
16:16:43 <ivan> ... i would like to have my technical background to the technical context
16:16:54 <ivan> sandro: i work at w3c, team contact for the rif working group
16:17:06 <ivan> ... i was co team contact for the owl group
16:17:20 <ivan> ... my interest aligns with a lot of things we have already heard here
16:17:45 <ivan> agenda 1
16:17:54 <ivan> zakim, pick agenda 1
16:17:54 <Zakim> I don't understand 'pick agenda 1', ivan
16:18:06 <ivan> Topic: f2f review
16:18:18 <ivan> susie: we had 11 people in total, we made really good progress
16:18:28 <ivan> ... next time more will come, people are still signing on
16:18:36 <ivan> ... but it was important to start
16:18:38 <uldis> Regrets - Danny Ayers
16:18:45 <ivan> ... Lee kindly wrote the minutes
16:18:52 <LeeF> Zakim, take up agendum 1
16:18:52 <Zakim> agendum 1. "Overview of the f2f meeting" taken up [from ivan]
16:19:01 <ivan> ... we started off by introduction
16:19:09 <ivan> ... then we moved to the charter
16:19:28 <ivan> ... we just made a recap of the info which is on the web site (which has a link to the charter)
16:19:55 <ivan> ... one highlight is that it is an ig and not a working group, so we can direct the work a bit in a direction we prefer
16:20:09 <ivan> ... we also started a bit later, but we do have a hard stop in february '08
16:20:28 <ivan> ... we are expected to interact with other group based on the charter, 
16:20:41 <ivan> ... with sw groups in w3c, but also outsider
16:20:53 <ivan> ... we then moved on to how to makeup sweo
16:21:13 <ivan> ... the participants are expected, formally, to use 20% of their time
16:21:58 <uldis> there is a lot of echo.
16:22:02 <ivan> zakim, who is talking?
16:22:12 <Zakim> ivan, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: kidehen (14%), uldi (34%), martin (36%), Karen (4%), Sandro (50%)
16:22:56 <ivan> susie: but lot of work will be within the framework of a task force
16:23:14 <ivan> ... each tf would last 2-3 months, 5-6 people, so it is a flexible framework
16:23:33 <ivan> ... sweo is made up from members, plus some invited expert (like Danny Ayers)
16:23:41 <ivan> ... we also discussed communication
16:23:57 <ivan> ... we have a wiki that is available for the sweo, we will use email, 
16:24:21 <ivan> ... we will use the same email for all the task forces, important to use the right subject lines, 
16:24:36 <uldis> LeeF: :)
16:24:36 <ivan> ... eg, [TASKFORCENAME] bla bla bla
16:25:04 <ivan> susie: ivan gave an overview on where we are with SW technologies on where we are
16:25:14 <ivan> ... karen gave an overview on messaging
16:25:22 <ivan> ... then we had some brainstorming sessions
16:25:42 <uldis> focus both on enterprise and web dev. community
16:25:47 <ivan> ... one of the areas was that people felt that we have to focus both on entreprises and the web developers' communities
16:26:07 <ivan> ... the latter involve hackers, open source community, web2.0 developers, etc
16:26:26 <ivan> ... we also said that one of the issue is to understand where we are with messaging
16:26:57 <ivan> ... so we have to understand what the market feel about the market, identify the messaging that are out there, and what work and not
16:27:10 <ivan> ... we also need to understand what resources are available
16:27:29 <ivan> ... we also have to encourage people to sign up for sweo (that actually happened...)
16:27:55 <ivan> .. a secondary item is to have messages in particular audiences, application areas
16:28:03 <ivan> ... this begins to form a matrix
16:28:24 <ivan> ... we cannot create colletarals for all matrix cells, but we can find out where the most value is
16:28:42 <ivan> ... and we can also concentrate on areas that is in line with peoples' experiences
16:29:03 <ivan> ... the third area is to incorporate sw in undergraduate and graduate training
16:29:20 <ivan> ... this is an area that is not top priority for us
16:29:33 <ivan> susie: on the second day we did work around identification of core messaging
16:29:45 <ivan> ... we wanted to understand what the community feels
16:30:14 <ivan> ... one group is the web developers' communtiy; we have good contacts in that community but we may not know exactly how they feel
16:30:25 <ivan> ... we identified a number of individuals we would contact
16:30:39 <ivan> ... on the entreprise level we 3 approaches
16:30:45 <ivan> ... (1) analysts
16:31:09 <ivan>  ... (2) a questionnaire to vendors to understand why they have decided to enter this market
16:31:42 <ivan> ... (3) a questionnaire to entreprises who may or may not use sw technologies, we have to understand wy not
16:32:28 <ivan> s/wy/why/
16:32:31 <Susie> http://esw.w3.org/topic/SweoIG/TaskForces/CoreMessaging
16:32:58 <ivan> (the questionnaires' text)
16:35:34 <ivan> sandro: i was wondering whether this would be public, anonymous, or confidential?
16:36:02 <ivan> susie: i was planning to do these by email, ie, we would know where the answers come from, but the compilation would be anonymized
16:36:29 <Zakim> -LeeF
16:37:06 <ivan> q?
16:37:11 <ivan> ack sandro
16:37:24 <ivan> kingsley: re the targetting the audiences
16:37:43 <ivan> ... if we start with the web developers' side, we need a bridge with the web2.0 community
16:37:58 <ivan> ... there is a tendency to see these two as mutually exclusive
16:38:01 <martind> this might be relevant to some questions of the mentioned questionnaire: http://tinyurl.com/yl7aq7 or direct to PDF: http://tinyurl.com/ybra6h (courtesy of neon-project.org)
16:38:12 <ivan> ... it is important to show how complimentary they are
16:38:24 <ivan> ... a typical example being the blogosphere
16:38:52 <ivan> ... we have to find the key players the of the web2.0 crowd and the entreprise web2.0
16:38:57 <ivan> ... there is even office 2.0
16:39:13 <ivan> ... these latter two take the web2.0 to the entreprise
16:39:28 <ivan> ... we have to get them understand what the sw is doing 
16:41:04 <Karen> Karen has joined #sweo
16:41:22 <ivan> ivan: we tried to identify the persons, but we were not sure they are the right names
16:41:31 <uldis> may we set up a wiki page to list key players of the web dev community and web 2.0 and add to it?
16:41:56 <uldis> ... whom we should contact
16:43:14 <ivan> susie: during the meeting we felt we were not good enough in identifying the names
16:43:31 <ivan> ... please by next week collect these names
16:43:48 <ivan> kingsley: we do not have a list name on the wiki
16:44:13 <Karen> +1 names should be internal to group
16:45:01 <uldis> it is possible to use ACL on a wiki and make pages visible to IG members only
16:45:32 <uldis> sandro can provide assistance in this
16:45:48 <ivan> action: ivan to set up a ig confidential part of the wiki
16:46:52 <ivan> action: kingsley collect names appropriate for the web2.0 world
16:48:47 <ivan> susie: one of the action item was that I would send the questionnaire's text to the group
16:48:53 <ivan> ... i will do that
16:49:02 <ivan> ... I will have to contact the comm team of w3c on that
16:49:24 <LeeF> zakim, code?
16:49:24 <Zakim> the conference code is 7936 (tel:+1.617.761.6200), LeeF
16:49:25 <ivan> ... another action item was that ivan to collect the contacts for companies, that is done
16:49:47 <ivan> ... yet another action item is to collect the resources that we already have
16:49:53 <Zakim> +LeeF
16:49:55 <ivan> ... eg, frank chum will look for more books
16:50:02 <Zakim> This conference is scheduled to end in 10 minutes; all ports must be freed
16:50:07 <ivan> ... wing will look at the tools' list to send
16:50:23 <ivan> ack sandro
16:51:05 <ivan> sandro: if somebody think the wording should be different, should that person modify it on the wiki, or rather on the mailing
16:51:34 <ivan> susie: the wiki culture would require that people could modify directly
16:51:45 <ivan> ... but if there are major changes, check with the group
16:51:59 <ivan> susie: actually, one more comment on the wiki
16:52:22 <ivan> ... on the list a lot of people have good ideas on what to do and where to go, but I am a bit afraid that these ideas would get lost
16:52:36 <ivan> ... so I started a 'wild idea' part on the wiki, for general thoughts
16:53:01 <Susie> http://esw.w3.org/topic/SweoIG/WildIdeas
16:53:07 <ivan> ... i kept the thoughts short and added a name to it
16:53:10 <ivan> q?
16:53:13 <Karen> q+
16:53:23 <ivan> ack Karen
16:53:49 <ivan> karen: i do have some resources when I was working in market research I could probably share
16:54:01 <ivan> ... but I would like to keep it for the group
16:54:20 <uldis> zakim, q+
16:54:20 <Zakim> I see susie, uldis on the speaker queue
16:55:01 <Zakim> This conference is scheduled to end in 5 minutes; all ports must be freed
16:55:52 <ivan> ack susie
16:56:22 <ivan> uldis: it would be group for the ig if we could use sw technologies for our own work
16:56:35 <ivan> ... although i cannot name any particular at this point
16:56:41 <ivan> ... but we could at some point
16:56:59 <ivan> susie: one of the action items was that wing would look at semantics media wiki
16:57:06 <ivan> ... if people have additional ideas
16:57:36 <ivan> uldis: adding wikis with blogging, for example
16:58:01 <Zakim> This conference is scheduled to end in 2 minutes; all ports must be freed
16:58:27 <ivan> kingsley: a lot of our technology is solved by us, plus integration, but the problem is member independence
16:59:05 <Zakim> This conference is scheduled to end in 1 minute; all ports must be freed
16:59:26 <ivan> ... we have to find a set of clear guidelines on what we can accept and use
17:00:01 <Zakim> This conference is scheduled to end now; all ports must be freed immediately
17:00:06 <Zakim> The time reserved for this conference has been exceeded. 17 ports must be freed
17:00:31 <LeeF> yes
17:00:36 <Zakim> -uldi
17:00:37 <Zakim> -davidr
17:00:37 <Zakim> -orri
17:00:38 <Zakim> -kidehen
17:00:39 <Zakim> -Sandro
17:00:41 <Zakim> -Karen
17:00:42 <davidr> davidr has left #sweo
17:00:43 <Zakim> -susie
17:00:45 <Zakim> -ina
17:00:47 <Zakim> -wing
17:01:17 <uldis> agree to kidehen re. observing caution re. particular products
17:02:12 <uldis> first thing we can start with is using already accepted SW formats 
17:02:26 <uldis> like FOAF which is already used for participants list 
17:02:46 <uldis> uldis has left #sweo
17:07:50 <Zakim> -martin
17:07:51 <Zakim> -LeeF
17:08:01 <ivan> rrsagent, draft minutes
17:08:01 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2006/11/22-sweo-minutes.html ivan
17:10:10 <ivan> zakim, bye
17:10:10 <Zakim> leaving.  As of this point the attendees were +1.781.273.aaaa, +1.617.970.aabb, Ivan, kidehen, Karen, wing, susie, LeeF, uldi, ina, martin, davidr, +31.30.273.aacc, orri, Sandro
17:10:10 <Zakim> Zakim has left #sweo
17:24:00 <kidehen> kidehen has left #sweo
17:32:25 <martind> martind has left #SWEO
18:06:23 <Karen> Karen has joined #sweo