IRC log of tagmem on 2006-11-21

Timestamps are in UTC.

18:01:27 [RRSAgent]
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18:01:27 [RRSAgent]
logging to http://www.w3.org/2006/11/21-tagmem-irc
18:01:38 [Vincent]
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18:02:48 [Zakim]
+Vincent
18:02:59 [Ed]
Chair: Vincent
18:03:06 [Ed]
Scribe: Ed Rice
18:04:09 [Vincent]
Zakim, whi is here?
18:04:09 [Zakim]
sorry, Vincent, I do not understand your question
18:04:21 [Vincent]
Zakim, who is here
18:04:21 [Zakim]
Vincent, you need to end that query with '?'
18:04:49 [Vincent]
Zakim, who is here?
18:04:49 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Ed_Rice, Norm, Vincent
18:04:50 [Zakim]
On IRC I see Vincent, RRSAgent, Ed, Zakim, Norm, DanC
18:05:18 [dorchard]
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18:05:48 [Zakim]
+Dave_Orchard
18:05:58 [Ed]
Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-tag/2006Nov/0105.html
18:07:09 [Zakim]
+TimBL
18:07:11 [Zakim]
+DanC
18:07:26 [timbl]
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18:07:33 [Zakim]
+DanC.a
18:07:43 [DanC]
Zakim, drop DanC
18:07:43 [Zakim]
DanC is being disconnected
18:07:44 [Zakim]
-DanC
18:07:45 [DanC]
Zakim, drop DanC.a
18:07:45 [Zakim]
DanC.a is being disconnected
18:07:46 [Zakim]
-DanC.a
18:07:52 [Zakim]
+DanC
18:09:09 [Ed]
Zakim, list participants
18:09:09 [Zakim]
As of this point the attendees have been Ed_Rice, Norm, Vincent, Dave_Orchard, TimBL, DanC, DanC.a
18:09:19 [DanC]
DanC has changed the topic to: TAG 21 Nov http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-tag/2006Nov/0105.html
18:09:26 [Ed]
Topic: Administrative
18:09:58 [Ed]
Propose next teleconference: 28 November - conflict with AC meeting?
18:10:36 [Ed]
Regrets Tim, Norm, Vincent and likely Henry
18:11:07 [Ed]
Norm: Propose cancel next week meeting
18:11:10 [Ed]
Ed +1
18:11:16 [timbl]
+1
18:11:22 [Ed]
Resolved, next weeks meeting will be cancelled.
18:11:55 [Ed]
Propose next teleconference: 5 Dec
18:12:07 [Ed]
Regrets - Norm
18:12:30 [Ed]
Propose Noah as scribe.
18:13:09 [Ed]
Approve minutes of last telecnference?
18:13:14 [Norm]
dorchard, I think you're the source of that noise? Can you mute?
18:13:18 [Vincent]
Minutes 14 nov. http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/2006/11/14-tagmem-minutes
18:13:42 [timbl]
Zakim, mute dorchard
18:13:42 [Zakim]
sorry, timbl, I do not see a party named 'dorchard'
18:13:51 [timbl]
Zakim, mute Dave
18:13:51 [Zakim]
Dave_Orchard should now be muted
18:14:07 [Norm]
zakim, dave_orchard is dorchard
18:14:07 [Zakim]
+dorchard; got it
18:14:08 [Ed]
Resolved: approve minutes of last teleconferance.
18:14:14 [dorchard]
zakim, unmute me
18:14:14 [Zakim]
dorchard should no longer be muted
18:14:24 [Ed]
Agenda review
18:14:29 [DanC]
q+ to request discussion of tagSoupIntegration
18:14:32 [dorchard]
zakim, who's making noise
18:14:32 [Zakim]
I don't understand 'who's making noise', dorchard
18:14:43 [dorchard]
zakim, who's making noise?
18:14:54 [Zakim]
dorchard, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Vincent (69%)
18:15:07 [DanC]
ack danc
18:15:07 [Zakim]
DanC, you wanted to request discussion of tagSoupIntegration
18:15:22 [Ed]
agenda accepted with Dan's addition for tagSoupIntegration
18:15:32 [Ed]
Topic: PasswordsIntheclear
18:16:48 [DanC]
q+ to suggest clarifying the scope to "never send passwords in the clear across the Internet"
18:17:52 [timbl]
q+
18:18:13 [Vincent]
ack danc
18:18:13 [Zakim]
DanC, you wanted to suggest clarifying the scope to "never send passwords in the clear across the Internet"
18:19:02 [Ed]
Ed talks about the proposed exceptions to where it is ok to send passwords in the clear.
18:19:20 [Ed]
1) I just want to keep a page off the search engine, its not really 'secure'.
18:20:30 [Vincent]
ack timbl
18:20:38 [Ed]
2) my network is secured, so I dont need to secure the password.
18:21:01 [Ed]
Dan: I think 'should not' would be ok, instead of a must not.
18:21:20 [Ed]
Timbl: if your running on a secured network, that doesnt mean there are no virus's on it.
18:21:47 [Ed]
Timbl: the one machine could be connected to other networks which are then not as secured.
18:22:01 [Ed]
Timbl: or it could be sniffed by someone else on the vpn.
18:23:26 [DanC]
(this discussion of VPNs and firewalls starts to sound like IETF IPv6 discussions)
18:23:29 [Ed]
Dave: One person in my group went to a conferance who said firewalls really dont work and its pushing more security on the local machine because only one client inside your firewall can compromise your entire network.
18:25:54 [DanC]
http://www.w3.org/2006/WSC/ Web Security Context Working Group
18:25:55 [Ed]
Dan: W3C has a new security context team. We may want to have them review this.
18:26:58 [DanC]
s/team/WG/
18:27:35 [Ed]
Ed, should we change it to 'should' then or send it to the working group?
18:27:43 [Ed]
Dan: I'm in favor of either of these.
18:28:19 [Ed]
Norm: If we say 'should' how do we point to anyone and say your in violation of the finding or not?
18:28:55 [Ed]
Norm: So, I have a marginal preferance for 'must' if we can get the community to buy in to it.
18:29:23 [Ed]
Dan: All these things are about managing risk.
18:30:48 [Ed]
dorchard: I think of must as a 'if you dont follow a "must" your outside the architecture', and we're saying sometimes its ok to violate a 'must' so I think a 'should' is probably ok on this one.
18:31:14 [Ed]
DO: I think that should is the right word to use.
18:37:52 [DanC]
hmm... tim's idea has some appeal; put the MUST onus on the user agent to make the user aware of the risk. hmm....
18:38:23 [DanC]
that's already in there: "A client or browser MUST NOT transmit passwords in clear text."
18:39:21 [DanC]
q+
18:39:42 [DanC]
q+ to express reservation about advocating a change that we don't have experience with.
18:40:03 [Vincent]
ack danc
18:40:03 [Zakim]
DanC, you wanted to express reservation about advocating a change that we don't have experience with.
18:42:18 [Ed]
Timbl: I suggest adding 'user agents MUST warn when a password is to be sent in the clear'
18:42:46 [Ed]
Timbl: and the browser SHOULD NOT send passwords in the clear
18:43:01 [Ed]
timbl: and the server SHOULD NOT request passwords be sent in clear text.
18:43:20 [DanC]
(hmm... perhaps s/MUST warn/MUST not send without informed consent/ ? I think there's some precedent in WAI. but yes, that's just wordsmithing)
18:43:39 [Zakim]
+Raman
18:43:48 [Ed]
s/browser/user
18:45:16 [Ed]
Dan: I'd like to see the use cases identified in a paragraph or two as well.
18:45:42 [raman]
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18:46:27 [DanC]
replay:
18:46:28 [DanC]
Timbl: I suggest adding 'user agents MUST warn when a password is to be sent in the clear'
18:46:35 [DanC]
Timbl: and the browser SHOULD NOT send passwords in the clear
18:46:40 [DanC]
Timbl: and the user SHOULD NOT send passwords in the clear
18:46:45 [DanC]
timbl: and the server SHOULD NOT request passwords be sent in clear text.
18:47:09 [DanC]
(disregard 2nd line of replay)
18:48:53 [Ed]
Action: Ed to produce a new version with these changes.
18:48:57 [DanC]
indeed, raman , it's "user SHOULD NOT send passwords in the clear"
18:49:42 [Ed]
TOPIC: Face to face meeting in 3 weeks.
18:49:57 [Ed]
VQ: lets talk about what we'd like to achieve?
18:51:23 [Ed]
Schedule is Monday - Wednesday afternoon.
18:51:38 [Ed]
Dave: when to use Get - issue 7 (wstransfer)
18:52:19 [Ed]
Norm: I'm hoping to have namespace document 8 and semantic web dialog, web architecture. I'm hopeful I'll get these done by the face to face.
18:52:44 [Ed]
Timbl: Yes, particularly the semantic web.. we need to get the TAG to focus more on this.
18:53:35 [DanC]
q+ to note my TAG priorities are tagSoupIntegration and extensibility/versioning, though I haven't thought about group priorities much
18:53:41 [Ed]
Norm: I will also need to leave early on wednesday.
18:53:58 [Vincent]
ack danc
18:53:58 [Zakim]
DanC, you wanted to note my TAG priorities are tagSoupIntegration and extensibility/versioning, though I haven't thought about group priorities much
18:54:06 [Ed]
Dan: My personal interests are tagSoupIntegration and versioning/extensibility.
18:56:06 [Ed]
DO: We never really closed on what we need to do since the last face to face. This paper has become more of a thesis and we discussed possibly breaking it up.
18:56:32 [Ed]
VQ: well, maybe we should discuss to try and resume progress on this.
18:57:01 [Ed]
TV: If I was coming I would like to see more on the TAGSoup issue.
18:58:09 [Ed]
TV: I will definatly not be able to attend the f2f due to prior commitments.
18:59:34 [Ed]
Ed: I'd like to try and close on passwords in the clear at the f2f if we could.
18:59:35 [timbl]
Raman, you could not call in even, I gather?
19:01:25 [Ed]
TV: yes, I can call in during the evening hours. I'd like to participate in the TagSoup.
19:01:43 [Ed]
VQ: I'll send out a draft agenda so we can try and settle at least one week in advance.
19:01:52 [Ed]
VQ: other topics for F2F?
19:02:03 [Ed]
Topic: TagSoupIntegration - Dan's addition.
19:02:14 [Ed]
Tag discusses..
19:03:51 [DanC]
http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/2006/11/07-minutes.html#item08
19:15:51 [Ed]
VQ: anything else to cover today?
19:16:00 [Zakim]
-dorchard
19:16:11 [Zakim]
-Norm
19:16:15 [Ed]
VQ: Meeting adjourned, next meeting in two weeks.
19:16:22 [Ed]
Zakim, list participants
19:16:22 [Zakim]
As of this point the attendees have been Ed_Rice, Norm, Vincent, TimBL, DanC, DanC.a, dorchard, Raman
19:16:31 [Ed]
RRSAgent, make logs public
19:16:38 [Zakim]
-DanC
19:16:43 [Ed]
RRSAgent, generate minutes
19:16:43 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2006/11/21-tagmem-minutes.html Ed
19:16:49 [Zakim]
-Ed_Rice
19:16:51 [Zakim]
-Raman
19:16:54 [Zakim]
-Vincent
19:16:57 [Ed]
Zakim, bye
19:16:57 [Zakim]
leaving. As of this point the attendees were Ed_Rice, Norm, Vincent, TimBL, DanC, DanC.a, dorchard, Raman
19:16:57 [Zakim]
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19:17:48 [timbl]
You can extend the Sitemaps protocol using your own namespace.
19:18:24 [timbl]
The location of a Sitemap file determines the set of URLs that can be included in that Sitemap. A Sitemap file located at http://example.com/catalog/sitemap.xml">http://example.com/catalog/sitemap.xml can include any URLs starting with http://example.com/catalog/ but can not include URLs starting with http://example.com/images/.
19:18:25 [timbl]
If you have the permission to change http://example.org/path/sitemap.xml,">http://example.org/path/sitemap.xml, it is assumed that you also have permission to provide information for URLs with the prefix http://example.org/path/
19:18:40 [timbl]
:)
19:19:03 [Ed]
I just started reading the sitemaps this a.m., I'll read more :)
19:31:44 [Norm]
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