15:54:29 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #swd
15:54:29 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2006/11/14-swd-irc
15:54:40 <RalphS> rrsagent, please make this record public
15:54:46 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #swd
15:54:52 <TomB> TomB has joined #swd
15:54:53 <RalphS> zakim, this will be swd
15:54:53 <Zakim> ok, RalphS; I see SW_SWD()11:00AM scheduled to start in 6 minutes
15:55:45 <TomB> RalphS, Guus, I'm chairing today?
15:55:50 <Zakim> SW_SWD()11:00AM has now started
15:55:58 <Zakim> + +31.70.314.aaaa
15:56:33 <Antoine> zakim, aaaa is me
15:56:33 <Zakim> +Antoine; got it
15:56:55 <Zakim> + +1.617.395.aabb
15:56:59 <Zakim> -Antoine
15:57:01 <Zakim> +Antoine
15:57:13 <RalphS> zakim, aabb is me
15:57:13 <Zakim> +RalphS; got it
15:58:20 <RalphS> RalphS has changed the topic to: SWD WG 14 Nov agenda http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swd-wg/2006Nov/0025.html
15:58:22 <berrueta> berrueta has joined #swd
15:58:30 <Zakim> +??P21
15:58:53 <Bern> Bern has joined #swd
15:59:14 <RalphS> zakim, ??p21 is Tom
15:59:14 <Zakim> +Tom; got it
15:59:45 <Zakim> -RalphS
15:59:54 <Zakim> +??P34
16:00:04 <Bern> zakim, ??p34 is me
16:00:04 <Zakim> +Bern; got it
16:00:15 <JonP> JonP has joined #swd
16:00:16 <Zakim> +Ralph
16:00:27 <aliman> aliman has joined #swd
16:00:54 <Zakim> +JonP
16:01:15 <Zakim> +Antoine.a
16:01:26 <RalphS> zakim, antoine.a is really Guus
16:01:26 <Zakim> +Guus; got it
16:01:48 <Zakim> +??P42
16:01:59 <RalphS> zakim, ??p42 is Alistair
16:01:59 <Zakim> +Alistair; got it
16:02:01 <Zakim> +CarlosI
16:02:38 <RalphS> zakim, Carlos is really Diego
16:02:39 <Zakim> +Diego; got it
16:02:49 <Guus> zakim, wo is here?
16:02:49 <Zakim> sorry, Guus, I do not understand your question
16:03:08 <RalphS> Meeting: SWD WG
16:03:16 <RalphS> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swd-wg/2006Nov/0025.html
16:03:44 <RalphS> Regrets: Sean, Daniel
16:05:53 <RalphS> Scribe: Bernard
16:05:58 <RalphS> scribenick: bern
16:06:06 <RalphS> Previous: 2006-11-07 http://www.w3.org/2006/11/07-swd-minutes.html
16:06:23 <Bern> Guus: ignore action items at top of agenda are spurious
16:07:07 <Bern> Guus: minures are accepted, seconded by TomB
16:07:26 <TomB> http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/Scribing.html
16:07:43 <Bern> Ralph: question tutorial for IRC, zakim, etc
16:08:17 <Bern> ...working with Tom
16:08:29 <Bern> TomB: propose that tutorial is in agenda header
16:08:50 <RalphS> [DONE] ACTION: Ralph consider a tutorial on scribe conventions [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/10/17-swd-minutes.html#action01]
16:09:39 <RalphS> -> http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/Scribing.html Notes on scribing
16:10:03 <Bern> RalphS: this on on the table of "nearby" links
16:10:12 <Bern> ... on the WG home page
16:10:35 <Bern> Topic: tlecon times
16:11:01 <Bern> Guus: this time is convenient for many people including chairs
16:11:07 <Bern> ...despite ovelap with RIF
16:11:30 <Bern> ...so proposes to stay with this time
16:12:12 <Bern> [DONE] ACTION: Tom to discuss with Guus [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/10/31-swd-minutes.html#action08] 
16:12:41 <RalphS> s/discuss/discuss telecon time/
16:13:07 <RalphS> -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swd-wg/2006Nov/0014.html example SKOS use case
16:13:20 <aliman> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swd-wg/2006Nov/0019.html email suggesting format for skos use cases
16:13:44 <TomB> ACTION: Elisa to keep us posted as SKOS/iso 11179
16:13:46 <TomB>      compatibility issue evolves [recorded in
16:13:48 <TomB>      [36]w3c:/2006/10/31-swd-minutes.html#action07]
16:13:56 <TomB> -- continues
16:14:40 <Bern> Guus: progress on http://www.w3.org/2006/11/07-swd-minutes.html#action10
16:15:00 <Bern> Alistair: waiting for concensus on use case format
16:16:23 <Bern> Guus: taken action on http://www.w3.org/2006/11/07-swd-minutes.html#action09
16:16:32 <Bern> ...waiting for message to appear on mailing list
16:17:25 <Bern> Jon: questions on Guus' example use cases
16:18:07 <Bern> Guus: cannot be directly used for SKOS, different use but similar 
16:18:26 <Bern> ... also look at GoF Patterns book
16:19:06 <Bern> Guus: action on http://www.w3.org/2006/11/07-swd-minutes.html#action07
16:19:24 <Bern> Antione: looking for more insight on use case format and how to divide workload
16:19:56 <aliman> q+ to ask everybody to say what they think about the suggested use case
16:19:59 <RalphS> -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swd-wg/2006Nov/0015.html W3C Tech Report editor's materials
16:20:50 <Bern> Guus: talking to Chris Welty at ISWC about use of Wiki 
16:21:05 <Bern> ... doesn't require document editors to have CVS access
16:21:14 <Bern> ...Chris has good experience with it
16:21:26 <Bern> ...suggest as a way of capturing documentation for the WG
16:21:42 <Bern> RalphS: Wiki might encourage more contributions
16:22:01 <Bern> ... to find out more information about state of Wiki scripts
16:22:24 <Bern> ...concen about ease of editing wiki pages
16:22:30 <Bern> ...expressed from Tom
16:22:44 <Bern> ...but could use Wiki to collect notes
16:23:14 <Bern> Jon: which wiki?
16:23:21 <aliman> it's moin moin
16:23:27 <aliman> http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wg/wiki/ RIF wiki
16:23:32 <Bern> Guus: on the RIF WG home page
16:23:44 <TomB> 1+ Good experience with moinmoin
16:23:52 <Guus> RIF wiki http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wg/wiki/
16:24:29 <Bern> Guus: suggest we consider it. but try it out first
16:24:57 <Bern> ACTION: Ralph to find out more about the Wiki tools
16:25:13 <RalphS> s/the/the RIF/
16:25:28 <Bern> Guus: looking for tools to make collaboration for the group easier
16:26:10 <RalphS> Ralph: I personally find it very awkward to edit Wiki page
16:26:12 <JonP> +1 to using a wiki for document production if scripts exist to convert to doc format
16:26:19 <Bern> Guus: look at use cases
16:26:46 <Bern> ...and a format to describe them
16:26:58 <Bern> ...referrring to Alistair's posting
16:27:17 <Bern> ...clarification of use of Alistair's term "fucntionality"
16:27:41 <Bern> Alistair: functionality, for example, is search and browse (a description of how people can search and browse)
16:28:21 <Bern> Guus: on vocabularies, expect examples for expressiveness
16:29:07 <Bern> Alistair: expect to describe vocabulary, including their structural characteristics and provide concrrete examples to illustrate all features mentioned
16:29:19 <TomB> q+ Alistair is cutting in and out acoustically - just my phone?
16:29:28 <Bern> Guus: I would be more explicit (e.g. broader, narrower, related)
16:29:44 <Bern> ...and anything outside ISO format should be specified
16:30:22 <Bern> RalphS: assume we should subsume ISO standards
16:30:26 <aliman> iso 2788 and iso 5964
16:30:32 <Bern> ... is this a requirement?
16:30:51 <Guus> [i have to leave]
16:30:56 <Bern> ...state this as a requirement
16:31:19 <aliman> q+ on iso format
16:31:32 <Zakim> -Guus
16:31:44 <Bern> RalphS: needs discussion on ISO format assumption
16:32:27 <Bern> TomB: we're not going to be able to resolve this on this call
16:32:43 <Bern> ...propose an addition to requirements template from Alistair
16:33:01 <aliman> q+ to say on use case format
16:33:09 <Bern> RalphS: suggest editors put forward a list of requriemetns that are proposed and accepted
16:33:33 <Bern> TomB: so, simply, they have an action to start getting requiremetns from the email list?
16:33:56 <Bern> RalphS: sugest Jon & Antione to keep this list
16:34:44 <Bern> Alistair: I think Guus said I should have another crack at the format
16:35:14 <Bern> ...but we may be able to be more precise and more specific
16:35:31 <Bern> ...Guus seems to want us to talk about ISO formats
16:36:24 <Bern> RalphS: is the decision about accepting ISO as base requirements necessary before Alistair re-does the format
16:36:52 <Bern> ...but these are really separate, So these need to be discussed separately.
16:37:33 <Bern> Alistair: I heard Guus say we should use the ISO format as a way of laying out use cases
16:37:52 <Bern> ...but I tried to be as neutral as possible
16:38:08 <Bern> ...and not tied to any classification schemata
16:38:18 <Bern> ...and presented in a human readable form
16:38:36 <Bern> RalphS: I strongly endorse that
16:39:09 <Bern> TomB: I also thought Guus was suggesting that use case describe more about the vocabulary
16:39:22 <Bern> ...suggest we discuss for one more week, then come to a decision next week
16:41:03 <Bern> RalphS: everyone encouraged to provide feedback to Alistair
16:41:17 <Bern> Alistair: does everyone understand what I've written?
16:41:44 <Bern> RalphS: clarification of ISO format
16:42:39 <RalphS> Bernard: my understanding of Guus' point was that we use the GangOfFour patterns and only describe use cases that go beyond those narrower, broader, related-to
16:42:47 <TomB> +1 on Bernard's understanding
16:43:26 <Bern> Alistair: doesn't believe we should take ISO as a starting point
16:43:37 <RalphS> Alistair: taking 2788 as a style would lead to other things that are beyond our scope
16:44:04 <Bern> ...there's an awful lot of flexibility in ISO, not sufficiently well-defined
16:44:39 <Bern> q+ to ask about initial documents
16:44:56 <aliman> q-
16:44:57 <Bern> ACTION: all to respond to Alistair's proposal
16:45:44 <RalphS> Bernard: do the existing Working Drafts need some careful review by the WG?
16:46:14 <RalphS> ... I suggest that everyone send comments on the existing drafts in mail
16:46:31 <RalphS> Alistair: we could use the issues list to track these comments
16:47:49 <RalphS> ... I have been maintaining a public SKOS issues list; I use this to track comments
16:47:51 <TomB> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swd-wg/2006Nov/0019.html
16:48:02 <TomB> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swd-wg/2006Nov/0019.html
16:48:08 <TomB> http://www.w3.org/2004/02/skos/core/proposals
16:48:45 <Bern> RalphS: important that this WG pays attention to these issues
16:49:09 <Bern> ...if Alistair can continue to track the issues
16:49:17 <Zakim> Bern, you wanted to ask about initial documents
16:49:41 <Bern> Alistair: been putting more energy into looking into requiremetns
16:50:03 <Bern> TomB: like to propose an action on Alistair to continue maintaining that list
16:50:27 <Bern> RalphS: priority is to capture use cases
16:50:47 <Bern> Alistair: important to make a connection from issues to requirements
16:50:49 <RalphS> Ralph: we can't close issues without knowing what our use cases are
16:50:57 <Bern> ...and make requirements explicit
16:51:20 <Bern> ...and I will continue to maintain that list of issues
16:54:04 <RalphS> ACTION: Daniel to send mail describing his use cases for SKOS draft [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/10/24-swd-minutes.html#action01] 
16:54:10 <RalphS> -- continues
16:54:38 <Bern> ACTION: Elisa to keep us posted as SKOS/iso 11179 compatibility issue evolves [recorded in [36]http://www.w3.org/2006/10/31-swd-minutes.html#action07] [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/11/07-swd-minutes.html#action03] 
16:54:45 <Bern> -- continues
16:55:16 <Bern> topic: RDF in XHTML
16:55:27 <Bern> TOMB: no one on call to discuss
16:55:48 <aliman> q+ to mention current thread on semantic-web@w3.org
16:56:05 <Bern> Topic: Recipes for Publishing RDF Vocabularies  
16:56:15 <Bern> RalphS: no time to participate
16:56:24 <Bern> TomB: no one to participate
16:56:52 <RalphS> Ralph: I will have to miss the Nov 28 and Dec 5 telecons due to W3C meetings; will be back in the office on December 11
16:57:01 <Bern> Alistair: also no time. However, there's a discussion on the semantic-web@w3.org thread
16:57:16 <Bern> JonP: useful discussion on the thread
16:57:37 <Bern> Alistair: a lot of the discussion seems to be igoring the recipes
16:57:49 <Bern> ...so perhaps our work is not widely known
16:58:09 <Bern> ...need to get more input and involvement
16:58:20 <Zakim> -Tom
16:58:29 <RalphS> -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/semantic-web/2006Nov/0055.html "Hash URIs" and content negotiation (start of thread)
16:58:34 <Bern> ...so have requested comments
16:58:52 <Zakim> +??P6
16:59:09 <RalphS> -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/semantic-web/2006Nov/thread.html#msg55  "Hash URIs" and content negotiation thread
16:59:16 <RalphS> zakim, ??p6 is Tom
16:59:16 <Zakim> +Tom; got it
16:59:20 <Bern> ...TomB: no editor currently
16:59:34 <Bern> ...close meeting for today
16:59:53 <RalphS> zakim, list attendees
16:59:53 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been +31.70.314.aaaa, Antoine, +1.617.395.aabb, RalphS, Tom, Bern, Ralph, JonP, Guus, Alistair, CarlosI, Diego
16:59:57 <Zakim> -Alistair
16:59:58 <RalphS> rrsagent, draft minutes
16:59:58 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2006/11/14-swd-minutes.html RalphS
17:00:11 <Zakim> -Bern
17:00:18 <Zakim> -JonP
17:00:21 <Zakim> -Diego
17:00:24 <Zakim> -Tom
17:00:27 <Zakim> -Ralph
17:02:20 <RalphS> hmm.  there are several actions that did not get carried forward
17:02:33 <RalphS> (or closed)
17:02:37 <Antoine> Antoine has left #swd
17:02:54 <Zakim> -Antoine
17:02:55 <Zakim> SW_SWD()11:00AM has ended
17:02:56 <Zakim> Attendees were +31.70.314.aaaa, Antoine, +1.617.395.aabb, RalphS, Tom, Bern, Ralph, JonP, Guus, Alistair, CarlosI, Diego
17:03:32 <RalphS> [DONE] ACTION: Alistair propose a format for presenting use cases [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/11/07-swd-minutes.html#action11]
17:03:50 <RalphS> ACTION: Alistair work with the UCR editors to draft questions to invite the esw-thes mailing list to contribute to the use cases and requirements [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/11/07-swd-minutes.html#action10]
17:03:52 <RalphS> -- continues
17:04:23 <RalphS> [DONE] ACTION: Guus cite some examples of other Requirements documents [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/11/07-swd-minutes.html#action09]
17:04:44 <RalphS> -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swd-wg/2006Nov/0028.html ACTION: Guus cite some examples of other Requirements docs [Guus Schreiber]
17:05:09 <TomB> TomB has joined #swd
17:05:10 <RalphS> ACTION: Jon, Daniel, Antoine figure out their individual roles as SKOS Requirements editors [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/11/07-swd-minutes.html#action07]
17:05:13 <RalphS> -- continues
17:05:24 <TomB> RalphS, can you chat on phone?
17:05:30 <RalphS> sure
17:05:34 <TomB> #?
17:05:55 <RalphS> [DONE] ACTION: Ralph point Jon, Daniel, Antoine at the W3C tech report editors materials [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/11/07-swd-minutes.html#action08]
17:06:15 <RalphS> ACTION: Alistair give pointers to deployed SKOS systems. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/10/17-swd-minutes.html#action06]
17:06:18 <RalphS> -- continues
17:06:37 <RalphS> rrsagent, please draft minutes
17:06:37 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2006/11/14-swd-minutes.html RalphS
17:07:44 <RalphS> Bernard, you'll want to start with the later version of the -minutes.html file as it has the full list of actions now
19:20:48 <RalphS> zakim, bye
19:20:48 <Zakim> Zakim has left #swd
19:20:50 <RalphS> rrsagent, bye
19:20:50 <RRSAgent> I see 8 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2006/11/14-swd-actions.rdf :
19:20:50 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Elisa to keep us posted as SKOS/iso 11179 [1]
19:20:50 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/11/14-swd-irc#T16-13-44
19:20:50 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Ralph to find out more about the Wiki tools [2]
19:20:50 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/11/14-swd-irc#T16-24-57
19:20:50 <RRSAgent> ACTION: all to respond to Alistair's proposal [3]
19:20:50 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/11/14-swd-irc#T16-44-57
19:20:50 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Daniel to send mail describing his use cases for SKOS draft [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/10/24-swd-minutes.html#action01]  [4]
19:20:50 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/11/14-swd-irc#T16-54-04
19:20:50 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Elisa to keep us posted as SKOS/iso 11179 compatibility issue evolves [recorded in [36]http://www.w3.org/2006/10/31-swd-minutes.html#action07] [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/11/07-swd-minutes.html#action03]  [5]
19:20:50 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/11/14-swd-irc#T16-54-38
19:20:50 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Alistair work with the UCR editors to draft questions to invite the esw-thes mailing list to contribute to the use cases and requirements [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/11/07-swd-minutes.html#action10] [6]
19:20:50 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/11/14-swd-irc#T17-03-50
19:20:50 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Jon, Daniel, Antoine figure out their individual roles as SKOS Requirements editors [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/11/07-swd-minutes.html#action07] [7]
19:20:50 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/11/14-swd-irc#T17-05-10
19:20:50 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Alistair give pointers to deployed SKOS systems. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/10/17-swd-minutes.html#action06] [8]
19:20:50 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/11/14-swd-irc#T17-06-15