13:39:10 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #er
13:39:10 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2006/10/18-er-irc
13:39:16 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #er
13:39:24 <shadi> zakim, this will be ert
13:39:24 <Zakim> ok, shadi; I see WAI_ERTWG()10:00AM scheduled to start in 21 minutes
13:39:31 <shadi> meeting: ERT WG
13:39:36 <shadi> chair: Shadi
13:40:00 <shadi> agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-wai-ert/2006Oct/0025.html
13:40:08 <shadi> regrets: Shane
13:40:20 <shadi> agenda+ test subjects is a local file
13:40:29 <shadi> agenda+ sequences in the HTTP vocabulary
13:40:38 <shadi> agenda+ ICRA review of EARL 1.0 Schema
13:43:48 <ChrisR> ChrisR has joined #er
13:57:33 <shadi> zakim, code?
13:57:33 <Zakim> the conference code is 3794 (tel:+1.617.761.6200), shadi
13:59:26 <Daniela> Daniela has joined #er
14:00:18 <Zakim> WAI_ERTWG()10:00AM has now started
14:00:28 <Zakim> + +43.732.246.8aaaa
14:00:38 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
14:01:02 <CarlosI> CarlosI has joined #er
14:02:35 <Zakim> +Klaus/Johannes/Thomas
14:02:44 <JohannesK> JohannesK has joined #er
14:03:09 <CarlosV> CarlosV has joined #er
14:03:13 <Zakim> +??P15
14:03:15 <Zakim> -??P15
14:03:50 <Zakim> +??P15
14:03:52 <Zakim> +Shadi
14:04:07 <Zakim> +Klaus/Johannes/Thomas.a
14:04:14 <shadi> zakim, ipcaller is really Chris
14:04:14 <Zakim> +Chris; got it
14:04:24 <shadi> zakim, aaaa is really Daniela
14:04:26 <Zakim> +Daniela; got it
14:04:52 <shadi> zakim, ??p15 is really CarlosI
14:04:52 <Zakim> +CarlosI; got it
14:04:59 <CarlosV> zakim, Klaus/Johannes/Thomas.a is really CarlosV
14:04:59 <Zakim> +CarlosV; got it
14:05:21 <shadi> zakim, Klaus is really Johannes
14:05:21 <Zakim> +Johannes; got it
14:05:32 <shadi> zakim, who is on the phone?
14:05:32 <Zakim> On the phone I see Daniela, Chris, Johannes, CarlosI, Shadi, CarlosV
14:06:31 <shadi> scribe: Daniela
14:06:35 <shadi> scribenick: Daniela
14:06:44 <shadi> zakim, take up agendum 1
14:06:44 <Zakim> agendum 1. "test subjects is a local file" taken up [from shadi]
14:07:04 <shadi> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-wai-ert/2006Oct/0000
14:07:12 <shadi> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-wai-ert/2006Oct/0011
14:07:29 <shadi> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-wai-ert/2006Oct/0031
14:08:36 <Daniela> saz: two issues, first one about content file
14:08:45 <Daniela> saz: second about security/privacy
14:09:44 <Daniela> cv: seems that two things are mixed up here
14:10:54 <Daniela> saz: lets go through issues one by one
14:12:07 <Daniela> saz: one approach: if you do not want to share the files, do not share the report
14:12:36 <Daniela> cv: where is really the problem?
14:13:40 <Daniela> saz: what do others think?
14:14:38 <CarlosI> c:/documents..../user name/...
14:15:18 <Daniela> carlosI: its not that simple. there are a lot of privacy related questions, e.g. paths in windows systems
14:15:45 <Daniela> cv: its the decision of the people if they want to share or not
14:18:29 <Daniela> saz: lets discuss e.g. password encryption - should that be an issue in EARL1.0?
14:18:35 <Daniela> cv: not, it is not an issue:
14:18:44 <Daniela> CarlosI: it could be.
14:20:05 <Daniela> carlosI: if we want a third party validation we have to provide password information
14:20:27 <Daniela> carlosI: that information could be encrypted in order to have no problems
14:20:52 <Daniela> carlosI: proposal is to have another property for encrypted information as password
14:21:04 <Daniela> saz: password would be part of HTTP request
14:22:16 <Daniela> cv: we often get username and password from customers, but we do not put into any report.
14:22:48 <Daniela> cv: If you do not want to share something, do not put it
14:23:09 <Daniela> carlosI: if you want to share, how can you do with some security?
14:23:34 <Daniela> cv: can encrypt everything, but we are getting into very dangerous field
14:24:04 <Daniela> saz: maybe you want to show some results, but not username and password...
14:24:46 <Daniela> saz: do we want to go there?
14:25:22 <Daniela2> Daniela2 has joined #er
14:26:05 <Daniela2> chrisr: agrees that we do not have to put secure things into report
14:26:16 <shadi> scribenick: Daniela2
14:26:54 <Daniela2> saz: I can see the point from carlosI.
14:27:13 <Daniela2> johannesk: agree with many who spoke before.
14:27:29 <Daniela2> johannesk: one additional thought: we are talking about an rdf model
14:27:48 <Daniela2> johannesk: perhaps split the model into confidential part and non confidential part
14:28:44 <Daniela2> saz: thats a good point
14:29:37 <Daniela2> saz: do we want to clearly say in the scope section that security is out of scope of earl?
14:30:01 <Daniela2> cv: why should we do that?
14:30:23 <Daniela2> saz: even in the guide? couldnt it be helpful?
14:30:40 <Daniela2> cv: I do not think so. It could apply to anything on the web...
14:31:02 <Daniela2> saz: carlosI, are you convinced?
14:31:13 <Daniela2> carlosI: not really, but can live with it.
14:33:25 <Daniela2> carlosI: use case: you have a group of people that does validations for websited. there are people from different fields (managers, technicians). all these people share repository in EARL about results. technical people need passwords. if they could be included in report (encrypted), it would be easier.
14:34:50 <Daniela2> saz: the process "encrypt" is the same as "publish seperately"
14:35:04 <CarlosI> earl:password_encrypted
14:35:22 <Daniela2> cv: what carlosI proposes is workflow issue and not a language issue
14:36:02 <Daniela2> carlosI: no, its about providing enough power to the language to save work
14:36:23 <Daniela2> cv: it's a different approach.
14:37:01 <Daniela2> saz: it's an issue worth thinking about.
14:37:49 <Daniela2> ACTION: CarlosI will summarize his arguments to be discussed with others in next call.
14:38:28 <Daniela2> saz: back again to local files. assuming we have a solution for confidentiality
14:38:47 <Daniela2> saz: the local file is different from web content.
14:39:19 <Daniela2> saz: the definition of web content is more than having a resource available on an http protocol
14:39:36 <Daniela2> saz: file content is different - it is on a local harddisk
14:40:42 <Daniela2> saz: providing a uri for a file name does not make it unique, e.g. dynamic ip, same name for two computers
14:41:11 <Daniela2> saz: we talked about a property called 'file name'. its not unique, just a handle
14:41:27 <Daniela2> saz: also talked about a way to store the content of the file
14:42:06 <Daniela2> saz: do we need to worry about uniqueness?
14:42:49 <Daniela2> cv: dicussion about uniqueness is not relevant.
14:43:12 <Daniela2> cv: if you want to share a file, make it available for everyone.
14:46:02 <Daniela2> carlosI: use case: customers gives files for evaluation, do this validation locally on a computer, want to save this information in earl format.
14:46:21 <Daniela2> johannesK: what you really need is an uri.
14:49:38 <Daniela2> carlosI: what is the approach regarding the property for web content uri or just rdf staff?
14:49:59 <Daniela2> saz: yes, there was a resolution on previous call: we will use rdf:about
14:50:24 <Daniela2> carlosI: if we have this resolution, we should use the same approach for file content
14:50:30 <Daniela2> saz: why?
14:50:37 <Daniela2> carlosI: just to be consistent
14:51:56 <Daniela2> saz: we have property such as a file name which is a handle
14:52:20 <Daniela2> saz: web content has uri
14:52:59 <Daniela2> cv: the filename is meaningless. we need the whole file.
14:54:38 <Daniela2> saz: file content class can use rdf:about or rdf:id
14:55:03 <Daniela2> saz: within the file content class there is a file name property and a source
14:55:46 <Daniela2> cv: has there already been the decision to use file content class?
14:56:18 <Daniela2> saz: no formal decision, renaming web content was one option
14:56:43 <Daniela2> saz: have to check if there is enough support for file content class
14:57:25 <shadi> http://www.w3.org/2006/10/04-er-minutes
14:58:03 <Daniela2> johannesK: file name would just be a label, wouldn't it?
14:58:39 <shadi> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-wai-ert/2006Oct/0011.html
14:58:51 <Daniela2> carlosI: yes, what we really need something that is unique
14:59:08 <shadi> <earl:FileContent rdf:ID="unique123">
14:59:08 <shadi>   <dc:date rdf:datatype="&xmls;Date">2005-06-25</dc:date>
14:59:08 <shadi>   <earl:filename>file.html</earl:filename>
14:59:08 <shadi>   <earl:filesource><![CDATA[aksgbq3833o3gbo4zgblakc8t9ut2]]></earl:filesource>
14:59:08 <shadi> </earl:FileContent>
14:59:33 <Daniela2> johannesK: in rdf terms we need something really unique beside this label
14:59:35 <shadi> <earl:FileContent rdf:about="file://...">
14:59:43 <shadi>   <dc:date rdf:datatype="&xmls;Date">2005-06-25</dc:date>
14:59:43 <shadi>   <earl:filename>file.html</earl:filename>
14:59:43 <shadi>   <earl:filesource><![CDATA[aksgbq3833o3gbo4zgblakc8t9ut2]]></earl:filesource>
14:59:43 <shadi> </earl:FileContent>
15:00:14 <JohannesK> Daniela2: no, in RDF we do have a unique thing, but Carlos wants another unique thing
15:00:19 <Daniela2> saz: two ways of describing file content (see example)
15:01:59 <Daniela2> johannesK: must be unique within the model - thats not the case for file content
15:02:51 <Daniela2> carlosI: what about changing resources on the web?
15:04:43 <Daniela2> saz: let's continue discussion at next telecon.
15:04:49 <Zakim> -Chris
15:04:51 <ChrisR> ChrisR has left #er
15:05:02 <Zakim> -Johannes
15:05:08 <Zakim> -Shadi
15:05:12 <Zakim> -Daniela
15:05:18 <Zakim> -CarlosI
15:06:30 <Zakim> -CarlosV
15:06:31 <Zakim> WAI_ERTWG()10:00AM has ended
15:06:33 <Zakim> Attendees were +43.732.246.8aaaa, Klaus/Johannes/Thomas, Shadi, Chris, Daniela, CarlosI, CarlosV, Johannes
15:06:47 <shadi> zakim, bye
15:06:47 <Zakim> Zakim has left #er
15:06:54 <shadi> rrsagent, make logs world
15:06:59 <shadi> rrsagent, make minutes
15:06:59 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2006/10/18-er-minutes.html shadi
15:07:00 <shadi> rrsagent, make logs world
15:07:04 <shadi> rrsagent, bye
15:07:04 <RRSAgent> I see 1 open action item saved in http://www.w3.org/2006/10/18-er-actions.rdf :
15:07:04 <RRSAgent> ACTION: CarlosI will summarize his arguments to be discussed with others in next call. [1]
15:07:04 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/10/18-er-irc#T14-37-49