IRC log of tsdtf on 2006-09-26

Timestamps are in UTC.

12:27:26 [RRSAgent]

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12:27:26 [RRSAgent]

logging to http://www.w3.org/2006/09/26-tsdtf-irc

12:27:30 [ChrisR]

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12:27:31 [Zakim]

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12:27:43 [shadi]

zakim, this will be TSD

12:27:47 [Zakim]

ok, shadi; I see WAI_TSDTF()8:30AM scheduled to start in 3 minutes

12:28:00 [shadi]

meeting: TSD TF

12:28:09 [shadi]

chair: CarlosV, Christophe

12:28:35 [Christophe]

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12:28:39 [shadi]

agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-wai-ert-tsdtf/2006Sep/0045.html

12:29:03 [shadi]

agenda+ Continue discussion on TCDL

12:29:11 [shadi]

agenda+ Start of test production phase

12:29:57 [Zakim]

WAI_TSDTF()8:30AM has now started

12:29:59 [Zakim]

+Shadi

12:30:44 [Zakim]

+Christophe_Strobbe

12:31:00 [Zakim]

+[IPcaller]

12:31:01 [Michael]

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12:31:04 [CarlosI]

CarlosI has joined #tsdtf

12:31:29 [shadi]

zakim, ipcaller is really Chris

12:31:29 [Zakim]

+Chris; got it

12:31:46 [carlosV]

carlosV has joined #tsdtf

12:31:50 [Zakim]

+Cooper

12:32:29 [Zakim]

+??P2

12:33:04 [shadi]

zakim, ??p2 is really CarlosI

12:33:04 [Zakim]

+CarlosI; got it

12:33:10 [Zakim]

+ThomasT

12:33:28 [shadi]

zakim, thomasT is really CarlosV

12:33:28 [Zakim]

+CarlosV; got it

12:34:54 [shadi]

regrets: Vangelis

12:35:08 [shadi]

zakim, who is on the call?

12:35:08 [Zakim]

On the phone I see Shadi, Christophe_Strobbe, Chris, Cooper, CarlosI, CarlosV

12:36:55 [shadi]

scribe: Shadi

12:36:59 [shadi]

scribenick: Shadi

12:37:28 [shadi]

zakim, take up agendum 1

12:37:28 [Zakim]

agendum 1. "Continue discussion on TCDL" taken up [from shadi]

12:38:24 [shadi]

CV: CV, CS, and SAZ had brief call about exntesion to help finalize TCDL work

12:38:49 [shadi]

CV: TCDL 2.0 will remain a BenToWeb spec on BenToWeb namespace

12:39:50 [shadi]

CV: validation of TSD TF metadata will happen according to TCDL 2.0

12:40:21 [shadi]

...and additionally a second step will be needed to check the usage of the TCDL 2.0 is according to TSD TF requirements

12:40:50 [shadi]

...current proposal for the second step would be Schematron but there may be other mechanisms

12:45:50 [shadi]

SAZ: initial proposal to have two separate schemas (BenToWeb one and TSD TF one) has flaws

12:47:46 [Zakim]

+ +43.732.246.8aaaa

12:48:05 [shadi]

zakim, aaaa is really Daniela

12:48:05 [Zakim]

+Daniela; got it

12:48:44 [shadi]

SAZ: the proposal is to have one schema, and a second step for checking the metadata content

12:49:56 [shadi]

CI: i am concerned that referencing TCDL 2.0 will imply endorsement by W3C

12:50:15 [Zakim]

+Tim_Boland

12:50:37 [shadi]

...we only need specific parts of it, why not just use it as we like

12:50:56 [shadi]

...we just need metadata to store our information

12:51:07 [shadi]

...we are spending too much time on this part

12:52:35 [Tim]

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12:53:53 [shadi]

SAZ: shouldn't compare TFs, the other was a tools database

12:55:15 [shadi]

...these tests may have a large impact, and we should spend adequate time thinking about the metadata

12:55:33 [shadi]

...referencing the spec does not imply endorsement

12:55:53 [shadi]

CI: people will imply endorsement, even if you don't like it

12:56:05 [shadi]

...and there are contravesial things in there

12:58:17 [shadi]

SAZ: assuming that the TSD TF documentation clarifies that there is no endorsement of the TCDL 2.0

12:58:54 [shadi]

...and assuming that there is a mechanism to check that the metadata published on W3C reflects this usage

12:59:04 [shadi]

...are you still concerned?

12:59:23 [shadi]

CI: worried but can live with the solution

12:59:37 [shadi]

...it is a contraversial and sensitive area

13:02:13 [shadi]

SAZ: note that TCDL 2.0 does not make assumptions on user testing, it only provides a mechanism to describe tests that are carried out by users

13:04:04 [shadi]

CI: still a tricky area in web accessibility

13:06:22 [shadi]

RESOLUTION: review TCDL 2.0 to make sure it contains the TSD TF requirements, then document how TCDL 2.0 will be used in the context of the TF (with special care of any potential endorsement misinterpretation)

13:11:11 [shadi]

CV: discussion extensibility model still pending

13:11:44 [shadi]

...model B will lead to a more chaotic metadata

13:12:05 [shadi]

...we may need to add extension points

13:12:18 [shadi]

...but all over the place may be tough

13:13:10 [shadi]

CS: in BenToWeb we tried to add new elements as optional to avoid compatibility issues

13:15:30 [shadi]

SAZ: third model would be to keep the BenToWeb schema as the master, then use schematron or something else to verify the content of the metadata

13:15:43 [shadi]

TB: sounds like an interesting option

13:15:50 [shadi]

CS: i agree

13:16:38 [shadi]

CV: second stage to ensure that the task force restrictions are applied

13:19:29 [shadi]

RESOLUTION: adopt BenToWeb extension model (model A of extension points)

13:22:01 [shadi]

RESOLUTION: adopt a two-stage model to validate the metadata according to the BenToWeb schema, then a second verification step to ensure that the TSD TF contraints are adhered

13:22:21 [shadi]

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-wai-ert-tsdtf/2006Sep/att-0019/BenToWeb_TCDL_W3C_Submission_DraftF.html

13:24:08 [shadi]

SAZ: will there be a way to add other pointers in the location element?

13:24:57 [shadi]

CS: yes

13:25:14 [shadi]

CV: we are not there yet, section "technologies"

13:26:06 [shadi]

CS: "baseline" not finalized by WCAG WG yet (or reopened)

13:26:26 [shadi]

...seems to be inline to exclude specific parts of a technology

13:27:58 [shadi]

SAZ: what is the impact of the changes to baseline by WCAG WG on the tests development

13:28:41 [shadi]

CS: hard to judge at the moment

13:29:37 [shadi]

SAZ: worried about implications

13:29:59 [shadi]

...maybe can try to develop non-baseline dependent tests first

13:30:42 [Zakim]

-Tim_Boland

13:30:45 [shadi]

CV: doesn't really impact TCDL 2.0 as much, more the test development

13:35:39 [Zakim]

-Chris

13:35:41 [Zakim]

-Shadi

13:35:41 [ChrisR]

ChrisR has left #tsdtf

13:35:42 [Zakim]

-CarlosI

13:35:43 [Zakim]

-Daniela

13:35:45 [Zakim]

-CarlosV

13:35:47 [Zakim]

-Christophe_Strobbe

13:36:01 [shadi]

action: everyone to review the link on the agenda (and above)

13:36:11 [Zakim]

-Cooper

13:36:13 [Zakim]

WAI_TSDTF()8:30AM has ended

13:36:14 [Zakim]

Attendees were Shadi, Christophe_Strobbe, Chris, Cooper, CarlosI, CarlosV, +43.732.246.8aaaa, Daniela, Tim_Boland

13:36:33 [shadi]

zakim, bye

13:36:33 [Zakim]

Zakim has left #tsdtf

13:38:06 [Christophe]

Christophe has left #tsdtf

13:38:46 [shadi]

rrsagent, make logs world

13:39:09 [shadi]

rrsagent, make minutes

13:39:09 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2006/09/26-tsdtf-minutes.html shadi

13:39:17 [shadi]

rrsagent, make logs world

13:39:31 [shadi]

rrsagent, bye

13:39:31 [RRSAgent]

I see 1 open action item saved in http://www.w3.org/2006/09/26-tsdtf-actions.rdf :

13:39:31 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: everyone to review the link on the agenda (and above) [1]

13:39:31 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/09/26-tsdtf-irc#T13-36-01