15:42:11 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #ws-policy
15:42:11 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2006/08/16-ws-policy-irc
15:42:13 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
15:42:13 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #ws-policy
15:42:15 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be Policy
15:42:15 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see WS_Policy()12:00PM scheduled to start in 18 minutes
15:42:16 <trackbot> Meeting: WS Policy WG Teleconference
15:42:16 <trackbot> Date: 16 August 2006
15:42:41 <cferris> chair: cferris
15:50:32 <mlittle> mlittle has joined #ws-policy
15:53:06 <abbie> abbie has joined #ws-policy
15:53:10 <Zakim> WS_Policy()12:00PM has now started
15:53:17 <Zakim> +Charlton_Barreto
15:53:44 <cferris> cferris has joined #ws-policy
15:53:59 <cferris> zakim, please read agenda from http://whatfettle.com/2006/07/RDFAgenda/http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ws-policy/2006Aug/0104.html
15:53:59 <Zakim> working on it, cferris
15:54:02 <Zakim> agenda+ Roll call and selection of secretary, Chair
15:54:03 <Zakim> agendum 1 added
15:54:05 <Zakim> agenda+ Review and approval of telcon minutes, Chair
15:54:08 <Zakim> agendum 2 added
15:54:09 <Zakim> agenda+ Future WG meetings, Chair
15:54:10 <Zakim> agendum 3 added
15:54:11 <Zakim> agenda+ Working Group drafts, Chair
15:54:12 <Zakim> agendum 4 added
15:54:13 <Zakim> agenda+ Review action items, Chair
15:54:14 <Zakim> agendum 5 added
15:54:15 <Zakim> agenda+ Detailed review of current drafts
15:54:16 <Zakim> agendum 6 added
15:54:17 <Zakim> agenda+ Editorial and wording changing issues (30 minutes)
15:54:20 <Zakim> agendum 7 added
15:54:21 <Zakim> agenda+ Minor Technical Issues (30 minutes)
15:54:23 <Zakim> agendum 8 added
15:54:25 <Zakim> agenda+ Major Technical Issues (30 minutes)
15:54:27 <Zakim> agendum 9 added
15:54:29 <Zakim> agenda+ New issues (since Aug 7)
15:54:31 <Zakim> agendum 10 added
15:54:33 <Zakim> agenda+ Any other business
15:54:33 <FrederickHirsch> FrederickHirsch has joined #ws-policy
15:54:35 <Zakim> agendum 11 added
15:54:37 <Zakim> done reading agenda, cferris
15:54:37 <Fabian> Fabian has joined #ws-policy
15:54:51 <Zakim> +Frederick_Hirsch
15:55:34 <dmoberg> dmoberg has joined #ws-policy
15:55:45 <Zakim> -Frederick_Hirsch
15:55:58 <toufic> toufic has joined #ws-policy
15:56:16 <bijan> bijan has joined #ws-policy
15:57:00 <Zakim> +Frederick_Hirsch
15:57:01 <Zakim> + +1.508.628.aaaa
15:57:07 <plh> plh has joined #ws-policy
15:57:18 <Yakov> Yakov has joined #ws-policy
15:57:39 <Zakim> +Abbie_Barbir
15:57:42 <Zakim> +??P13
15:57:51 <Zakim> +Mark_Little
15:58:11 <Zakim> +Plh
15:58:11 <Fabian> zakim, ??P13 is Fabian
15:58:11 <Zakim> +Fabian; got it
15:58:18 <plh> zakim, mute me
15:58:18 <Zakim> Plh should now be muted
15:58:22 <abbie> scribe: abbie
15:58:28 <plh> zakim, who's on the phone?
15:58:28 <Zakim> On the phone I see Charlton_Barreto, +1.508.628.aaaa, Frederick_Hirsch, Abbie_Barbir, Fabian, Mark_Little, Plh (muted)
15:58:32 <Zakim> +??P26
15:58:43 <paulc> paulc has joined #ws-policy
15:58:43 <Zakim> + +1.604.681.aabb
15:58:55 <Zakim> +Chris_Ferris
15:58:57 <dmoberg> zakim, ??P26 is dmoberg
15:59:03 <Zakim> +dmoberg; got it
15:59:05 <asir> asir has joined #ws-policy
15:59:24 <plh> zakim, +1.604.681.aabb is Toufic
15:59:24 <Zakim> +Toufic; got it
15:59:36 <Zakim> + +1.781.643.aacc
15:59:54 <plh> zakim,  +1.508.628.aaaa is Yakov
15:59:54 <Zakim> +Yakov; got it
15:59:56 <danroth> danroth has joined #ws-policy
16:00:00 <cferris> zakim, aacc is maryann
16:00:00 <Zakim> +maryann; got it
16:00:07 <cferris> zakim, who is here?
16:00:07 <Zakim> On the phone I see Charlton_Barreto, Yakov, Frederick_Hirsch, Abbie_Barbir, Fabian, Mark_Little, Plh (muted), dmoberg, Toufic, Chris_Ferris, maryann
16:00:09 <Zakim> On IRC I see danroth, asir, paulc, Yakov, plh, bijan, toufic, dmoberg, Fabian, FrederickHirsch, cferris, abbie, mlittle, Zakim, RRSAgent, trackbot, charlton
16:00:27 <JCrump> JCrump has joined #ws-policy
16:00:27 <Zakim> +??P5
16:00:36 <maryann> maryann has joined #ws-policy
16:00:37 <plh> zakim, p5 is Asir
16:00:37 <Zakim> sorry, plh, I do not recognize a party named 'p5'
16:00:40 <sanka> sanka has joined #ws-policy
16:00:42 <plh> zakim, ??p5 is Asir
16:00:42 <Zakim> +Asir; got it
16:00:51 <Zakim> + +1.781.999.aadd
16:01:09 <cferris> zakim, aadd is jcrump
16:01:23 <whenry> whenry has joined #ws-policy
16:01:29 <bijan> zakim, mute me
16:01:33 <Zakim> +jcrump; got it
16:01:34 <Zakim> sorry, bijan, I do not see a party named 'bijan'
16:01:35 <Zakim> + +1.781.902.aaee
16:01:37 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
16:01:38 <Zakim> +Paul_Cotton
16:01:40 <Zakim> + +1.208.284.aaff
16:01:42 <Zakim> +Prasad_Yendluri
16:01:43 <Ashok> Ashok has joined #ws-policy
16:01:49 <bijan> zakim, +[IPcaller] is me
16:01:58 <Zakim> sorry, bijan, I do not recognize a party named '+[IPcaller]'
16:02:02 <whenry> zakim, +1.781.902.aaee is whenry
16:02:03 <danroth> zakim, who is here?
16:02:03 <bijan> zakim, IPcaller is me
16:02:10 <Zakim> +whenry; got it
16:02:16 <Zakim> On the phone I see Charlton_Barreto, Yakov, Frederick_Hirsch, Abbie_Barbir, Fabian, Mark_Little, Plh (muted), dmoberg, Toufic, Chris_Ferris, maryann, Asir, jcrump, whenry,
16:02:19 <Zakim> ... [IPcaller], Paul_Cotton, +1.208.284.aaff, Prasad_Yendluri
16:02:23 <Zakim> Asir has danroth
16:02:25 <Zakim> +bijan; got it
16:02:27 <Zakim> On IRC I see Ashok, whenry, sanka, maryann, JCrump, danroth, asir, paulc, Yakov, plh, bijan, toufic, dmoberg, Fabian, FrederickHirsch, cferris, abbie, mlittle, Zakim, RRSAgent,
16:02:29 <bijan> zakim, mute me
16:02:30 <Zakim> ... trackbot, charlton
16:02:32 <cferris> zakim, who is here?
16:02:33 <plh> zakim, unmute me
16:02:36 <Zakim> bijan should now be muted
16:02:40 <Zakim> On the phone I see Charlton_Barreto, Yakov, Frederick_Hirsch, Abbie_Barbir, Fabian, Mark_Little, Plh (muted), dmoberg, Toufic, Chris_Ferris, maryann, Asir, jcrump, whenry, bijan
16:02:46 <prasad> prasad has joined #ws-policy
16:02:47 <Zakim> ... (muted), Paul_Cotton, +1.208.284.aaff, Prasad_Yendluri
16:02:49 <Zakim> Asir has danroth
16:02:50 <plh> zakim, unmute me
16:02:51 <Zakim> Plh should no longer be muted
16:02:51 <monica> monica has joined #ws-policy
16:02:55 <Zakim> +Glen
16:02:57 <Zakim> On IRC I see Ashok, whenry, sanka, maryann, JCrump, danroth, asir, paulc, Yakov, plh, bijan, toufic, dmoberg, Fabian, FrederickHirsch, cferris, abbie, mlittle, Zakim, RRSAgent,
16:02:58 <GlenD> GlenD has joined #ws-policy
16:03:00 <Zakim> ... trackbot, charlton
16:03:04 <Zakim> -Prasad_Yendluri
16:03:08 <Zakim> Plh was not muted, plh
16:03:20 <Zakim> +Prasad_Yendluri
16:03:39 <cferris> zakim, aaff is monica
16:03:39 <Zakim> +monica; got it
16:03:45 <Zakim> +Ashok_Malhotra
16:03:49 <plh> zakim, mute me
16:03:49 <Zakim> Plh should now be muted
16:04:33 <cferris> zakim, who is here
16:04:33 <Zakim> cferris, you need to end that query with '?'
16:04:36 <paulc> zakim. who is here?
16:04:41 <sanka> sanka has joined #ws-policy
16:04:46 <paulc> who is here?
16:04:51 <abbie> who is scribe ?
16:04:53 <cferris> zakim, who is here?
16:04:53 <Zakim> On the phone I see Charlton_Barreto, Yakov, Frederick_Hirsch, Abbie_Barbir, Fabian, Mark_Little, Plh (muted), dmoberg, Toufic, Chris_Ferris, maryann, Asir, jcrump, whenry, bijan
16:04:56 <Zakim> ... (muted), Paul_Cotton, monica, Glen, Prasad_Yendluri, Ashok_Malhotra
16:04:59 <Zakim> Asir has danroth
16:05:00 <Zakim> On IRC I see sanka, GlenD, monica, prasad, Ashok, whenry, maryann, JCrump, danroth, asir, paulc, Yakov, plh, bijan, toufic, dmoberg, Fabian, FrederickHirsch, cferris, abbie,
16:05:02 <Zakim> ... mlittle, Zakim, RRSAgent, trackbot, charlton
16:05:35 <cferris> scribe: abbie
16:05:54 <FrederickHirsch> q+
16:06:25 <plh> plh has changed the topic to: Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ws-policy/2006Aug/0104.html
16:06:27 <cferris> ack fre
16:06:37 <abbie> approval of minutes as ammended by umit http://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/wspolicy/actions/45 
16:07:26 <abbie> fredrick has a comment, should we change how the comments are recorded (interleaved)
16:08:03 <plh> zakim, unmute me
16:08:03 <Zakim> Plh should no longer be muted
16:08:11 <abbie> chris, minutes approved as ammended by umit and felix
16:08:38 <abbie> next item, review of Review and approval of 2006-08-02 telcon minutes, Chair 
16:08:38 <abbie> Draft minutes (member only): 
16:08:38 <abbie> http://www.w3.org/2006/08/02-ws-policy-minutes.html 
16:09:04 <abbie> fredric has a comment agenda item 9 9 same a before)
16:09:06 <abbie> approved
16:09:24 <abbie> 3. Future WG meetings, Chair 
16:09:29 <abbie> paul will chair that
16:10:16 <abbie> f2f meeting moved to belleview as opposed to redmond, closer to ice cream shops
16:10:33 <FrederickHirsch> note in agenda item 9a in 09 minutes may be confusing - 
16:10:39 <whenry> Is there a place I can check if my registration was ... well registered?
16:10:46 <FrederickHirsch> move "ssue 3549 related to 3548, same resolution" to agenda item for 3548
16:10:52 <abbie> 4. Working Group drafts, 
16:11:04 <abbie> chris stated that the drfats have been posted
16:11:33 <asir> ACTION: Philippe to update the Redmond F2F logistics page
16:11:33 <trackbot> Created ACTION-56 - Update the Redmond F2F logistics page [on Philippe Le Hegaret - due 2006-08-23].
16:11:48 <abbie> action: Felix to upgrade the logistics details for f2f
16:11:48 <trackbot> Created ACTION-57 - Upgrade the logistics details for f2f [on Felix Sasaki - due 2006-08-23].
16:12:17 <plh> rrsagent, drop action 2
16:12:46 <abbie> 6. Editorial and wording changing issues 
16:13:16 <abbie> draft include most of the actions, 4 left and were reported by the editors in an e-mail to list
16:13:28 <abbie> diff were included in the draft
16:13:35 <abbie> review of action items
16:14:13 <whenry> zakim, mute me
16:14:13 <Zakim> whenry should now be muted
16:14:16 <abbie> action 20, posted this morning
16:14:18 <Zakim> -Mark_Little
16:14:27 <umit> umit has joined #ws-policy
16:14:44 <abbie> paulc suggests to update on the fly
16:15:31 <paulc> Action 20 is resolved by Bugzilla 3602
16:15:41 <Zakim> +Umit_Yalcinalp
16:15:57 <abbie> action 33 and 35
16:16:33 <abbie> merge operation (need a better way) more time needed + 1 or 2 days
16:16:58 <abbie> epr and policy subject, need to make sure that they are not a repeat, if not the case will update end of the week
16:17:13 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
16:17:45 <abbie> action 39, owner is not online, david orchard will do that 
16:17:58 <abbie> action 39, pending
16:18:43 <abbie> action 44, we do have an editor user, deemed inadequate, felix working on it, pending
16:18:57 <sanka> zakim, who is here?
16:18:57 <Zakim> On the phone I see Charlton_Barreto, Yakov, Frederick_Hirsch, Abbie_Barbir, Fabian, Plh, dmoberg, Toufic, Chris_Ferris, maryann, Asir, jcrump, whenry (muted), bijan (muted),
16:19:01 <Zakim> ... Paul_Cotton, monica, Glen, Prasad_Yendluri, Ashok_Malhotra, Umit_Yalcinalp, [IPcaller]
16:19:03 <Zakim> Asir has danroth
16:19:04 <Zakim> On IRC I see umit, sanka, GlenD, monica, prasad, Ashok, whenry, maryann, JCrump, danroth, asir, paulc, Yakov, plh, bijan, toufic, dmoberg, Fabian, FrederickHirsch, cferris, abbie,
16:19:06 <Zakim> ... Zakim, RRSAgent, trackbot, charlton
16:19:20 <abbie> action 44 peding on chris
16:19:50 <sanka> zakim, IPCaller is probably me
16:19:50 <Zakim> +sanka?; got it
16:19:58 <abbie> action 48, maryann and Asir to ensure that interaction definition is clear, pending on maryann
16:20:04 <sanka> zakim, who is here?
16:20:04 <Zakim> On the phone I see Charlton_Barreto, Yakov, Frederick_Hirsch, Abbie_Barbir, Fabian, Plh, dmoberg, Toufic, Chris_Ferris, maryann, Asir, jcrump, whenry (muted), bijan (muted),
16:20:08 <Zakim> ... Paul_Cotton, monica, Glen, Prasad_Yendluri, Ashok_Malhotra, Umit_Yalcinalp, sanka?
16:20:10 <Zakim> Asir has danroth
16:20:11 <Zakim> On IRC I see umit, sanka, GlenD, monica, prasad, Ashok, whenry, maryann, JCrump, danroth, asir, paulc, Yakov, plh, bijan, toufic, dmoberg, Fabian, FrederickHirsch, cferris, abbie,
16:20:14 <Zakim> ... Zakim, RRSAgent, trackbot, charlton
16:20:42 <abbie> action 48 is due on next tuesday
16:20:53 <sanka> zakim, mute me 
16:20:53 <Zakim> sanka? should now be muted
16:21:07 <abbie> maryann needed personal time/vacation
16:21:56 <abbie> paulc action 39 will be assigned to Dave Orchard
16:22:07 <abbie> paulc all actions are updated
16:22:39 <abbie> open issues for next week
16:22:43 <abbie> befire the 23
16:23:05 <asir> Here is the link to open issues for next week - http://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/wspolicy/actions/open
16:23:09 <paulc> http://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/wspolicy/actions/open
16:23:24 <abbie> look at the issue list (open issues) and take care of your action items
16:24:16 <abbie> co-chairs remind people of doing their action items before the morning of the call friday is a better deadline before the call
16:24:18 <bijan> are actions listed anywhere?
16:24:29 <bijan> In a comprehensive ongoing list?
16:24:56 <abbie> 6. Editorial and wording changing issues (30 minutes) 
16:25:08 <abbie> chris, there is 19 open issues
16:25:18 <abbie> s/19/20
16:25:21 <bijan> No :)
16:25:26 <abbie> is taht all the issues?
16:25:44 <abbie> issues open today are direct derivatives from the f2f
16:26:24 <abbie> need to look at the subsatnce and make sure that we did get all issues that are not trivial
16:26:41 <sanka> zakim, sanka? is me
16:26:41 <Zakim> +sanka; got it
16:27:00 <sanka> zakim, who is here 
16:27:00 <Zakim> sanka, you need to end that query with '?'
16:27:12 <sanka> zakim, who is here?
16:27:12 <Zakim> On the phone I see Charlton_Barreto, Yakov, Frederick_Hirsch, Abbie_Barbir, Fabian, Plh, dmoberg, Toufic, Chris_Ferris, maryann, Asir, jcrump, whenry (muted), bijan (muted),
16:27:15 <Zakim> ... Paul_Cotton, monica, Glen, Prasad_Yendluri, Ashok_Malhotra, Umit_Yalcinalp, sanka (muted)
16:27:17 <Zakim> Asir has danroth
16:27:18 <Zakim> On IRC I see umit, sanka, GlenD, monica, prasad, Ashok, whenry, maryann, JCrump, danroth, asir, paulc, Yakov, plh, bijan, toufic, dmoberg, Fabian, FrederickHirsch, abbie, Zakim,
16:27:21 <abbie> next f2f first day will try to finish the job of identifying all critical issues
16:27:22 <Zakim> ... RRSAgent, trackbot, charlton
16:27:41 <cferris> cferris has joined #ws-policy
16:27:44 <asir> q+
16:27:59 <paulc> Chris: Let's get issues out ASAP.
16:28:00 <cferris> ack asir
16:28:26 <abbie> asir: is ther a deadline for finding substasive issues, need to enure t go with the december draft
16:28:48 <abbie> chris, ideally will have only editorial after the f2f
16:28:53 <umit> q+
16:28:55 <plh> q+
16:29:11 <plh> q-
16:29:33 <cferris> ack umit
16:30:17 <abbie> umit: is october the time frame substansive issues
16:31:18 <abbie> chris, an editor draft that we can review in early december
16:31:32 <abbie> paulc have it ready for f2f and use f2f to clean it up
16:32:19 <abbie> chris, we have all siiues closed by 23 of october to allow editors to produce a draft
16:32:41 <abbie> s/siiues/issues
16:32:55 <asir> q+ to ask two questions on Bugzilla
16:33:24 <abbie> chris need to change default assignne of the issue and people need to input their e-mail address in the assignne field
16:33:49 <abbie> if you creat an issue, u r the owner, does not mean provide solution, but mean track it
16:33:59 <abbie> above was said by chris
16:34:01 <cferris> ack asir
16:34:01 <Zakim> asir, you wanted to ask two questions on Bugzilla
16:34:03 <umit> i would have preferred to sort out the remaining issues in the november f2f. F2F is usually more productive to resolve issues.
16:34:21 <abbie> asir: do u have issue discuutions to happen (issue list)
16:34:32 <abbie> chris isue list, 
16:34:56 <abbie> chris, include a link in bugziila to the beginig in the issue
16:35:00 <cferris> s/isue/issue/
16:35:14 <abbie> asir: when we add an issue do we need the issue template
16:35:22 <abbie> chris, yes, people please do that
16:35:32 <abbie> url is comming next??
16:36:02 <abbie> paulc assign an action item when to find the memodrium
16:36:26 <abbie> action: paulc to find the memodrium
16:36:26 <trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - paulc
16:36:51 <abbie> action: paul to find memodrium
16:36:51 <trackbot> Created ACTION-58 - Find memodrium [on Paul Cotton - due 2006-08-23].
16:37:37 <asir> Topic: Issue 3562
16:37:48 <abbie> e) Remove misleading reference to a Requester policy, Yakov
16:37:48 <abbie> http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=3586 
16:38:29 <abbie> paulc carry fwd till dave give a proposal
16:38:53 <abbie> s/e) with a) Clarify the relation of overlapping definitions in the fr...,  
16:38:53 <abbie> http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=3562 
16:38:53 <maryann> moratorium ?
16:39:10 <bijan> 5?
16:39:11 <maryann> for paul's item, yes?
16:39:13 <abbie> Remove misleading phrasing of section 1.1 Goals section, Dale  
16:39:13 <abbie> http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=3566 
16:39:13 <abbie> Status: Releated to ACTION-5.
16:39:53 <bijan> zakim, unmute me
16:39:53 <Zakim> bijan should no longer be muted
16:40:14 <abbie> ?? trying to track it as a duplicate
16:40:28 <abbie> bijan: is a duplicate of 3604
16:40:29 <cferris> s/??/bijan/
16:40:29 <asir> http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=3604
16:40:41 <bijan> 3604
16:40:58 <bijan> zakim, mute me
16:40:58 <Zakim> bijan should now be muted
16:41:11 <abbie> so 3604 is a resolution of b) Remove misleading phrasing 
16:41:26 <cferris> RESOLUTION: 3566 closed as dup of 3604
16:42:07 <abbie> c) Framework and domain specific policy assertions, Dale 
16:42:07 <abbie> http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=3565 
16:43:02 <abbie> dale: introduction remar, in current draft looks better, there is no policy assertaions define in the document
16:43:04 <Zakim> -Charlton_Barreto
16:43:09 <bijan> Wacky! Zakim goes mad!
16:43:40 <cferris> s/remar/remark/
16:44:01 <abbie> dale: introduction in the frame suggest defining a framework etc,, but there are none
16:44:35 <abbie> this is may not be clear to all, but clear to me , to a reader can be misleading
16:44:42 <abbie> chris: current draft is better??
16:44:48 <toufic> http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2006/ws/policy/ws-policy-framework.html?rev=1.3&content-type=text/html;%20charset=iso-8859-1#policy_assertion
16:44:57 <abbie> dale: yes, just drop it if ok with others
16:45:49 <abbie> toufic : as above, can we the definition of polucy aertion, see section 2.4 terminology
16:46:02 <abbie> section 2.4 is still under construction
16:47:00 <toufic> q+
16:47:19 <maryann> q+
16:47:20 <Zakim> +Charlton_Barreto
16:47:30 <abbie> dale: should comment on the introduction and see if it is misleading or not ( see parag 1 and 2)
16:47:36 <abbie> ?? what is misleading
16:47:41 <maryann> are we using the speaker que?
16:47:49 <bijan> +1 asir
16:47:51 <abbie> dale: does the framework provide what the intro states
16:47:59 <bijan> No NOT GRAMMER!
16:48:05 <abbie> tofic provides a grammer
16:48:07 <bijan> q+
16:48:17 <cferris> s/??/asir/
16:48:22 <abbie> tofic, i bilive that is correct
16:48:38 <abbie> dale correct contrast between domain and frameowrk is not clear
16:48:48 <umit> s/bilive/believe/
16:48:56 <asir> q+
16:49:03 <abbie> chris use the queue
16:49:07 <cferris> ack toufic
16:49:42 <abbie> toufic i beilive that like other clarifications that dale wnat to reword (better or more to the point)
16:49:43 <asir> +1
16:49:54 <Yakov> q+
16:49:55 <cferris> ack ma
16:50:11 <paulc> Two more people have registered for the Sept F2F.  Is there anyone else on the call that can do this during the meeting?
16:50:29 <abbie> maryann : historical context, web services polucy 1.1 was a reference to the doc, would it help that the doc define a definition of asertion etc...
16:51:30 <abbie> dale, both of the previous commets suggest, first sentance like web services provide a .. language for expressing ... (need domain specific)
16:51:36 <bijan> q-
16:51:56 <abbie> dale, can editor take a big stap at it
16:52:19 <cferris> s/stap/stab/
16:52:20 <abbie> tofic, will be glad to take that
16:53:28 <bijan> +1 assign to editors
16:53:54 <Yakov> q+
16:54:03 <paulc> q+
16:54:15 <abbie> asir, assign to editor
16:54:25 <abbie> yakov need to add more definitions
16:54:28 <maryann> q+
16:54:34 <abbie> chris can raise that issue for the glossary
16:55:09 <paulc> ack as
16:55:12 <paulc> ack ya
16:55:17 <paulc> ack paul
16:55:22 <cferris> cferris has joined #ws-policy
16:55:27 <Yakov> q- 
16:55:28 <abbie> paulc need to what changes are required
16:55:49 <maryann> the editors will clarify the definition of framework and domain
16:55:59 <maryann> and domain is already an action for the editors
16:56:11 <Yakov> Possible definitions to add (as part of new issue): Policy Domain, Requester, Provider, Policy Eval
16:56:20 <abbie> chris, what we need is that dale is concerned parag 1 did convet that asertions are domain ones, need change to indicate that
16:56:22 <maryann> the defintion of domain is already an action and I own it
16:56:27 <umit> We can give Dale an action item to verify the results. 
16:56:54 <abbie> chris, maryann will work on that
16:57:06 <abbie> paulc maryann text is good
16:57:09 <cferris> ack ma
16:57:13 <paulc> ack maryann
16:57:28 <Yakov> +1
16:57:28 <abbie> maryann this is a good item for the editors to take
16:57:52 <abbie> RESOLUTION: 3565 asigned to editors
16:57:54 <asir> ACTION: Editors to implement the resolution for issue 3566
16:57:54 <trackbot> Created ACTION-59 - Implement the resolution for issue 3566 [on Editors  - due 2006-08-23].
16:58:20 <abbie> chris, dale tp update bugzilllllllla
16:59:02 <abbie> asir: 3566 terms like domain is diffuclt to define
16:59:25 <abbie> chris, 3665 we closed 3566 is open
16:59:52 <abbie> Conformance Sections needed for both specs, Umit 
16:59:52 <abbie> http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=3559
16:59:55 <cferris> ACTION 5 = Editors to implement the resolution for issue 3565
17:00:24 <Zakim> -Charlton_Barreto
17:01:23 <bijan> zakim, unmute me
17:01:23 <Zakim> bijan should no longer be muted
17:01:24 <cferris> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ws-policy/2006Aug/0104.html
17:02:06 <abbie> bijan, can not find my actions
17:02:12 <abbie> chris, check the minutes
17:02:27 <umit> q+
17:02:35 <toufic> q?
17:03:06 <bijan> zakim, mute me
17:03:06 <Zakim> bijan should now be muted
17:03:17 <FrederickHirsch> q?
17:03:44 <abbie> umit, complted action item 13, found questionable items , do we need to open an issue, how to proced
17:03:53 <plh> q+
17:04:08 <plh> ack umit
17:04:16 <abbie> chris, if u have issues enter them, do not asume that issues will be trakced
17:05:06 <abbie> paulc, since u r proposing changes u need to open an issue
17:05:28 <plh> q-
17:06:10 <abbie> 8. Minor Technical Issues (30 minutes)   
17:06:26 <abbie> a) Add discussion/examples of domain expressions, Ashok 
17:06:26 <abbie>         http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=3557   
17:07:21 <abbie> asok, added wording to ask the editor to add words about expression as a polucty subject, started 3599 to reques to think about uri structure for wsdl 1.1
17:07:42 <cferris> http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=3599
17:07:44 <abbie> and possible mesaging mechanisms
17:07:51 <abbie> s/asok/ashok
17:08:03 <abbie> chris 2 open issues wsd 1 and wsdl 1.1
17:08:11 <umit> q+
17:08:26 <asir> q+
17:08:31 <abbie> ashok, no, one is on expression and one which possible object u can reference
17:08:41 <plh> +1 to provide a phone line to Ashok
17:08:41 <umit> q-
17:09:00 <abbie> +1 to not be the scribe
17:09:27 <abbie> chris, 3599 policy attachment for wsdl 1.1
17:09:31 <Zakim> -monica
17:09:39 <Zakim> +m2
17:09:43 <umit> q+
17:09:51 <cferris> ack asir
17:09:59 <plh> zakim, m2 is monica
17:09:59 <Zakim> +monica; got it
17:10:01 <abbie> asir, ????
17:10:14 <abbie> umit, i have added that to the bug
17:10:28 <umit> s/i/Ashok/
17:10:38 <paulc> q+
17:11:22 <cferris> ack um
17:11:25 <paulc> "This needs to be clarified in the PolicyAttachment document." Where?
17:11:46 <abbie> paulc entry say need to clarify in polcy doc but did not where
17:11:52 <umit> q+
17:12:23 <abbie> yakov, subject line shoudl state that
17:12:23 <cferris> ack pau
17:12:57 <cferris> http://www.w3.org/TR/2006/WD-ws-policy-attach-20060731/#ExternalPolicyAttachment
17:13:15 <Yakov> s/yakov, subject /asir, subject
17:13:53 <cferris> The external Policy Attachment mechanism uses a PolicyAttachment element to 
17:13:53 <cferris> associate a Policy with a Policy Subject.  URI References to policy subjects 
17:13:53 <cferris> may include WSDL component references, (see Appendix to the WSDL 2.0 spec for 
17:13:53 <cferris> URI structures to refer to WSFL 2.0 contsructs), endpoint references and other 
17:13:53 <cferris> domain specific configurations and protocol constructs, such as URIs used to 
17:13:54 <cferris> designate JMS queues. 
17:14:04 <asir> q+
17:14:29 <cferris> ack um
17:14:43 <abbie> umit can go before the exampole
17:14:44 <cferris> added to section 3.4 pol-att 
17:14:52 <cferris> ack as
17:14:56 <abbie> s/exampole/example
17:15:19 <abbie> asir, looking at the text, how the exteral work with components 
17:15:38 <umit> q+
17:15:44 <cferris> note, I believe that there is a typo in the proposed text from the issue in bugzilla... WSFL should probably be WSDL
17:15:56 <abbie> not aware about implementations that support component designated, not ware why need to reference two attachement mechanisms
17:15:57 <umit> yes, you are right Chris
17:16:49 <abbie> umit, do not think that u can speculate what else will implement
17:17:00 <Ashok> q+
17:17:05 <cferris> also, contsructs should be constructs
17:17:14 <asir> q+ to respond
17:17:15 <cferris> ack um
17:17:18 <abbie> umit this is an example, no place in spec the usage of components is prohibited
17:17:57 <maryann> q+
17:18:00 <abbie> aisr: may need other peices than the example may be a documnet to explain how use it etc.
17:18:02 <umit> q+
17:18:13 <cferris> ack asi
17:18:13 <Zakim> asir, you wanted to respond
17:18:48 <abbie> ashok, r u saying that no one implemnt wdsl 2 component desginatior, well... peiople will slolwy do it
17:19:04 <paulc> q+
17:19:05 <abbie> ashok, oracle does wsdl 1.1
17:19:25 <cferris> ashok, believes that since WSDL2.0 component designators is a W3C spec, that it will gain adoption and that will need a means of referencing them from polatt
17:20:03 <cferris> ack ash
17:20:06 <cferris> ack ma
17:20:23 <paulc> What is the difficulty with spelling it out - A: people will ask us to demonstrate implementations of this during CR.
17:20:42 <abbie> maryann, 2 things usage of adressing (need to verify with wsa greoup) and need to verify with the wsdl wg
17:20:52 <abbie> chris, riase this as an issue
17:20:56 <Zakim> +Charlton_Barreto
17:20:59 <abbie> ashok, what is the issue
17:21:23 <abbie> maryann, coordination isssue between the exaple and it is in alighnement with wsa wg and wsdl wg
17:21:30 <paulc> FYI, WSDL 2.0 is at CR.  Does anyone know if the WSDL 2.0 component designators are being tested as part of that CR?
17:21:56 <cferris> I'd like someone to enter this as an issue: addressing the question as to whether we need to have ws-addr and wsdl wgs weigh in on the example domain expression
17:21:56 <abbie> s/exaple/example
17:22:00 <asir> No WSDL 2.0 component designators are not tested
17:22:10 <abbie> action: maryann to add an issue on coordination
17:22:12 <trackbot> Created ACTION-60 - Add an issue on coordination [on Maryann Hondo - due 2006-08-23].
17:22:52 <umit> q?
17:23:09 <cferris> q?
17:23:13 <cferris> ack um
17:24:01 <maryann> Action 60- there seems to be some question on whether the example given in 3.4 is "legitimate" with regard to the WS-Addressing specification/Working group and whether or not there are additional attachment mechanisms for WSDL, so the action is to coordinate with the WSDL and WS-Addressing working groups to have them review the examples we are citing
17:24:07 <paulc> I am concerned if it is clear if Section 3.4 of the PolicyAttachment has implementation requirements on this WG?
17:24:13 <abbie> umit, external reference can span large contexts, it is ideas that matter, why having examples that refere to external subjetcs creats a concern
17:24:36 <cferris> umit: unclear as to why wording that provides possible examples of domain expressions is generating such controversy
17:24:39 <asir> q+
17:24:42 <cferris> ack pa
17:25:31 <abbie> paulc, put 2 comments on irc, nothing normative in 3.4, wonder if people will think is an extension point and need not be tested
17:25:51 <abbie> paulc, is components designators part of cr in wsdl 2
17:25:57 <abbie> ashok, need to check
17:26:22 <abbie> paulc, any think normtaive in this section
17:26:35 <cferris> q+ ashok
17:26:35 <maryann> i think its examples
17:26:55 <maryann> but I was suggesting a review of the examples by the appropriate working groups
17:27:06 <abbie> pauc, need to figure out what the section is doing, people may see the section as having different objectives
17:27:27 <cferris> ack asi
17:27:41 <abbie> asir, can not fully answere paulc question
17:27:58 <abbie> 3 mechanisms, atatchment to wsdl 1.1, uddi and wsdl 2
17:28:11 <abbie> asir, then general purpose mechanisms,
17:28:41 <abbie> asir, with repect to umit concerns, we do not know if the exaplmes are misleading the reader or not
17:29:12 <abbie> umit, talking reference to wsdlm, u may object to jms, but not all
17:29:59 <abbie> ashok, if u r attaching policy to wsdl that u own, ok with wsdl, if u want attach ploicy to a wsdl that u do not owbm that situation u need the 3 point mechanism
17:30:04 <abbie> this is useful stuff
17:30:33 <abbie> ashok, u might not use jms, but people do, people can use what the see fit
17:31:24 <abbie> chris, take that to the list
17:33:12 <abbie> 9. Major Technical Issues (30 minutes)   
17:33:24 <abbie> a) Normalization should make empty nested policy elements, Frederick 
17:33:24 <abbie>         http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=3548   
17:33:24 <abbie> Status: See exchange beginning here: 
17:33:24 <abbie>         http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ws-policy/2006Aug/0063.html 
17:33:38 <abbie> fredirc this related to 3548
17:33:54 <FrederickHirsch> topic: bug 3549, Require assertions to be distinguished from parameter elements
17:34:04 <FrederickHirsch> bugzilla entry: http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=3549 
17:34:12 <FrederickHirsch> additional email: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ws-policy/2006Aug/0063.html
17:34:25 <FrederickHirsch> 1. Clarity of assertion vs parameter
17:34:36 <FrederickHirsch> 2. Allow generic processor to distinguish even with unknown domain assertions
17:34:48 <FrederickHirsch> 3. Resolve normalization issue with empty wsp:Policy element and none, 
17:34:49 <abbie> fredrick, how to differentiate an asertion from a parameter, 
17:35:23 <FrederickHirsch> Framework states that unknown child element is treated as assertion in 2.2
17:35:39 <FrederickHirsch> Asir notes in bugzilla that assertions must be in wsp namespace, contradiction.
17:35:46 <cferris> I would note that in suggesting that discussion of the previous issue (in topic 8) be taken to the list, that I was also encouraging progress on the other minor issues on the list so that we are prepared to close those on next week's call
17:35:52 <abbie> asir stated an asertion should in the wsp name space
17:35:53 <FrederickHirsch> Framework also states that any assertion that may have nested assertion,
17:36:01 <Zakim> +DOrchard
17:36:03 <Ashok> q+
17:36:17 <asir> q+
17:36:22 <cferris> me recognizes dave o joining the call
17:36:42 <abbie> fredrick, there is an issue of clrity
17:36:49 <FrederickHirsch> must have child assertion (Section 4.3.2 Assertion/wsp:Policy item).
17:37:06 <cferris> ack ash
17:37:10 <paulc> q+
17:37:23 <abbie> ashok, sunassertion are like sub policies, not sure what u mean
17:37:23 <dorchard> dorchard has joined #ws-policy
17:37:50 <FrederickHirsch> q+
17:37:53 <cferris> s/sunassertion/some assertions/
17:38:02 <FrederickHirsch> q-
17:38:06 <abbie> ashok, all asertion must be in the wsp name space ?? do not agree
17:38:30 <Zakim> -Chris_Ferris
17:38:36 <abbie> asir, asir i did not say the assertion in the wsp space
17:38:37 <paulc> Where is the dialogue on this issue in the email archive?
17:38:48 <paulc> ack asir
17:39:00 <abbie> asir insists that the minutes clear him from this terrible stattement
17:39:19 <abbie> fredrick, disgree that the issues are disjoint
17:39:30 <abbie> asir, can explain the e-mail chain
17:39:39 <Zakim> + +1.443.927.aagg
17:39:53 <plh> zakim, aagg is Chris
17:39:53 <Zakim> +Chris; got it
17:39:58 <paulc> See http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ws-policy/2006Jul/0088.html
17:40:00 <abbie> asir, policy assertion is child element of policy that is not from the ws policy name space
17:40:01 <Zakim> -dmoberg
17:40:08 <paulc> for email dialogue on Issue 3548
17:40:28 <cferris> q?
17:40:45 <abbie> not aware of issues on disticntion between assertion and a asser.. paremeter
17:40:55 <abbie> fredirck, asir is correct,
17:40:57 <cferris> asir does not want to be misquoted in the minutes
17:42:26 <Ashok> q+
17:42:35 <abbie> an assertion that has a nested assertion they all be the child of one of the policy elements, 
17:42:59 <abbie> fredrick, need clarification in the documnet
17:43:49 <abbie> freerick, we need 3548 and 3549 to be comnibed to make better wording in the documents(s)
17:44:12 <cferris> s/freerick/frederick/g
17:44:36 <abbie> asir, wait until tony is here to do 3548,
17:44:50 <danroth> q+
17:45:16 <cferris> ack pa
17:45:18 <paulc> ack pau
17:45:24 <abbie> fedrick, we are resolved for 3549, need better wording
17:45:54 <cferris> s/fedrick/frederick/g
17:46:05 <abbie> ashok, looking at ws-secpolcy, assertion has no imbeeded poluc, so ???
17:46:15 <asir> q+
17:46:22 <cferris> ack ash
17:46:25 <cferris> section 4.1.1
17:47:12 <abbie> daroth, need the tecxt for the record, on the list
17:47:18 <cferris> ack asir
17:47:20 <cferris> ack da
17:47:43 <abbie> asir, wrp ashok, on the parts body header are assertion parameters
17:47:56 <paulc> http://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/ws-sx/download.php/18837/ws-securitypolicy-1.2-spec-ed-01-r07.pdf
17:49:33 <abbie> action: fredrick to supply text to reslove 3549
17:49:33 <trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - fredrick
17:50:08 <cferris> http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=3560
17:50:16 <abbie> action: frederickhi to supply text to reslove 3549
17:50:16 <trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - frederickhi
17:50:43 <FrederickHirsch> note that security policy claims that sp:SignedParts is an assertion, which would be incorrect given our discussion
17:51:12 <Fabian> q+
17:51:14 <FrederickHirsch> section 4.1.1 of security policy 
17:51:52 <cferris> ack fab
17:51:58 <asir> Umit's proposal - http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ws-policy/2006Jul/0099.html
17:52:17 <paulc> q+
17:52:19 <asir> Asir's amendment - http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ws-policy/2006Aug/0074.html
17:52:21 <abbie> action: frederickHirsch to supply text to resolve 3549
17:52:21 <trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - frederickHirsch
17:52:42 <asir> Asir's "- bullet 2" - http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ws-policy/2006Aug/0099.html
17:52:50 <abbie> fabian, need to fix pbs with xml:id
17:53:02 <asir> Proposal on the table = Umit's proposal - bullet 2 + Asir's amendment
17:53:12 <abbie> paulc, a lot of work in ietf, canolization etc, 
17:54:10 <cferris_> cferris_ has joined #ws-policy
17:54:20 <cferris_> q?
17:54:24 <cferris_> ack pa
17:54:47 <abbie> fabian, i do not to forbid people to not use attribute, we need to stcik with wsu id
17:55:12 <FrederickHirsch> q+
17:55:14 <abbie> paulc, i c the pb, beaucse xml: id is broken we can help people use it nmore safely
17:55:22 <asir> q+
17:56:46 <FrederickHirsch> support Umit proposal with canonicalization amendment
17:57:47 <abbie> asir, use umit prosal - 2 bullet
17:57:57 <FrederickHirsch> q-
17:57:57 <abbie> umit this should be acceasable thru the bug
17:58:04 <abbie> chris, do we have agreement
17:58:09 <abbie> ferederick, i am ok
17:58:12 <cferris_> ack asir
17:58:18 <asir> actually .. umit's proposal - bullet 2 + asir's amendment
17:58:24 <abbie> chris, do we agreemnt
17:59:08 <asir> ACTION: Editors to implement the resolution for issue 3560
17:59:09 <trackbot> Created ACTION-61 - Implement the resolution for issue 3560 [on Editors  - due 2006-08-23].
17:59:09 <abbie> RESOLUTION: use the 3 links provided in the IRC
17:59:14 <Zakim> -Ashok_Malhotra
17:59:42 <paulc>  Umit's proposal - http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ws-policy/2006Jul/0099.html
17:59:55 <paulc> Asir's amendment - http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ws-policy/2006Aug/0074.html
18:00:17 <paulc> Asir's "- bullet 2" - http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ws-policy/2006Aug/0099.html
18:00:24 <Zakim> -bijan
18:00:50 <Zakim> -Yakov
18:00:52 <plh> rrsagent, generate minutes
18:00:52 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2006/08/16-ws-policy-minutes.html plh
18:01:07 <plh> rrsagent, make logs public
18:01:10 <Zakim> -Frederick_Hirsch
18:01:10 <maryann> maryann has left #ws-policy
18:01:13 <Zakim> -Abbie_Barbir
18:01:41 <umit> This is bug 3560
18:01:45 <Zakim> -maryann
18:02:05 <Zakim> -Charlton_Barreto
18:02:07 <Zakim> -Umit_Yalcinalp
18:02:37 <paulc> action: frederick to supply text to resolve 3549
18:02:39 <trackbot> Created ACTION-62 - Supply text to resolve 3549 [on Frederick Hirsch - due 2006-08-23].
18:02:47 <cferris_> RESOLUTION: 3560 closed with the proposal in Umit's proposal in http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ws-policy/2006Jul/0099.html  as amended by http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ws-policy/2006Aug/0074.html and http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ws-policy/2006Aug/0099.html
18:04:15 <cferris_> 10 01rrsagent, generate minutes
18:04:23 <dmoberg> dmoberg has left #ws-policy
18:04:24 <Zakim> -Glen
18:04:57 <Zakim> -jcrump
18:04:59 <JCrump> JCrump has left #ws-policy
18:05:25 <Zakim> -Prasad_Yendluri
18:05:39 <Ashok> Ashok has left #ws-policy
18:05:55 <Zakim> -whenry
18:06:12 <Zakim> -Toufic
18:07:23 <Zakim> -Chris
18:07:24 <Zakim> -Paul_Cotton
18:07:27 <Zakim> -monica
18:07:29 <Zakim> -Fabian
18:07:33 <Zakim> -Asir
18:07:42 <Zakim> -Plh
18:07:54 <plh> zakim, who's on the phone?
18:07:54 <Zakim> On the phone I see sanka (muted), DOrchard
18:07:58 <plh> zakim, disconnect sanka
18:07:58 <Zakim> sanka is being disconnected
18:08:00 <Zakim> -sanka
18:08:02 <plh> zakim, disconnect dorchard
18:08:02 <Zakim> DOrchard is being disconnected
18:08:04 <Zakim> WS_Policy()12:00PM has ended
18:08:06 <Zakim> Attendees were Charlton_Barreto, Frederick_Hirsch, Abbie_Barbir, Mark_Little, Plh, Fabian, Chris_Ferris, dmoberg, Toufic, +1.781.643.aacc, Yakov, maryann, +1.781.999.aadd, danroth,
18:08:11 <plh> zakim, bye
18:08:11 <Zakim> Zakim has left #ws-policy
18:08:12 <Zakim> ... jcrump, Paul_Cotton, +1.208.284.aaff, Prasad_Yendluri, whenry, bijan, Glen, monica, Ashok_Malhotra, Umit_Yalcinalp, sanka, DOrchard, +1.443.927.aagg, Chris
18:08:17 <plh> rrsagent, generate minutes
18:08:17 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2006/08/16-ws-policy-minutes.html plh
18:08:30 <plh> plh has left #ws-policy
18:09:38 <sanka> sanka has left #ws-policy
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18:25:47 <dorchard> rrsagent, please what are the action items?
18:25:47 <RRSAgent> I'm logging.  Sorry, nothing found for 'please what are the action items'
18:26:04 <RRSAgent> I'm logging.  Sorry, nothing found for 'please what are the action items'
18:26:59 <RRSAgent> I'm logging.  Sorry, nothing found for 'please what are the action items'
18:34:18 <dorchard> Actionmispelled: everybody type actions and topics.
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