14:55:09 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #rif
14:55:09 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2006/08/08-rif-irc
14:55:18 <ChrisW> zakim, this will be rif
14:55:18 <Zakim> ok, ChrisW, I see SW_RIF()11:00AM already started
14:55:24 <ChrisW> rrsagent, make logs visible
14:55:31 <ChrisW> rrsagent, make logs public
14:56:19 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
14:56:29 <FrankMcCabe> zakim, ipcaller is me
14:56:29 <Zakim> +FrankMcCabe; got it
14:58:14 <Zakim> +??P16
14:58:18 <Zakim> +Philippe_Bonnard (was ??P16)
14:58:34 <Zakim> +??P17
14:58:47 <SaidTabet> zakim, ??P17 is me
14:58:47 <Zakim> +SaidTabet; got it
14:58:52 <SaidTabet> zakim, mute me
14:58:53 <Zakim> SaidTabet should now be muted
14:59:08 <PhilippeB> Zakim, mute me
14:59:08 <Zakim> Philippe_Bonnard should now be muted
14:59:33 <Zakim> +[NRCC]
14:59:58 <Harold> zakim, [NRCC] is me
14:59:58 <Zakim> +Harold; got it
15:00:06 <LeoraMorgenstern> LeoraMorgenstern has joined #rif
15:00:20 <Zakim> +[IBM]
15:00:27 <Deborah_Nichols> Deborah_Nichols has joined #rif
15:00:28 <Donald_Chapin> Donald_Chapin has joined #rif
15:00:41 <ChrisW> zakim, [ibm] is temporarily me
15:00:41 <Zakim> +ChrisW; got it
15:01:01 <Zakim> +Deborah_Nichols
15:01:02 <sandro> sandro has joined #rif
15:01:02 <Zakim> +Leora_Morgenstern
15:01:03 <ChrisW> zakim, who is on the phone?
15:01:03 <Zakim> On the phone I see Hassan_Ait-Kaci, FrankMcCabe, Philippe_Bonnard (muted), SaidTabet (muted), Harold, ChrisW, Leora_Morgenstern, Deborah_Nichols
15:01:08 <igor> igor has joined #rif
15:01:20 <LeoraMorgenstern> zakim, please mute me
15:01:20 <Zakim> Leora_Morgenstern should now be muted
15:01:21 <JeffP> JeffP has joined #rif
15:01:25 <ChrisW> ChrisW has changed the topic to: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rif-wg/2006Aug/0005.html
15:01:46 <ChrisW> ChrisW has changed the topic to: 8 August agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rif-wg/2006Aug/0005.html
15:01:55 <Zakim> +Sandro
15:02:14 <Zakim> +PFPS
15:02:18 <Zakim> +David_Hirtle
15:02:26 <Elisa> Elisa has joined #rif
15:03:02 <SaidTabet> zakim, unmute me
15:03:02 <Zakim> SaidTabet should no longer be muted
15:03:18 <ChrisW> scribenick: saidtabet
15:03:24 <Allen> Allen has joined #rif
15:03:33 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
15:03:45 <Zakim> +Elisa_Kendall
15:03:47 <igor> zakim, [IPcaller] is me
15:03:47 <Zakim> +igor; got it
15:03:55 <igor> zakim, mute me
15:03:55 <Zakim> igor should now be muted
15:04:26 <Zakim> +Allen_Ginsberg
15:04:39 <Allen> zakim, mute me
15:04:39 <Zakim> Allen_Ginsberg should now be muted
15:05:02 <SaidTabet> First issue to decide: Hold or Cancel next week's meeting?
15:05:11 <ChrisW> http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wg/wiki/2006-08-15_Meeting
15:05:14 <SaidTabet> 8 people posted regrets to the meeting wiki page
15:05:18 <Harold> Given how few we are even today..
15:05:32 <SaidTabet> Anyone on the call who does not expect to be on the call and did not post regrets?
15:05:49 <SaidTabet> Sandro: Will happily not be there but I can if I need to :-)
15:05:53 <Harold> People not even have time to enter themselves in the Regrets page.
15:05:59 <DavidHirtle> let's make Sandro happy...
15:06:07 <FrankMcCabe> no objection
15:06:10 <SaidTabet> Objections to canceling next week's?
15:06:11 <MarkusK> MarkusK has joined #rif
15:06:12 <igor> no objkectiomn
15:06:15 <SaidTabet> No objections
15:06:26 <sandro> RESOLVED: no meeting next week
15:06:32 <SaidTabet> Next week's telecon canceled
15:06:42 <ChrisW> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rif-wg/2006Aug/0002.html
15:06:56 <SaidTabet> 2 weeks ago minutes: any objections to accepting the minutes?
15:07:09 <SaidTabet> No objections, minutes accepted
15:07:13 <ChrisW> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rif-wg/2006Aug/0003.html
15:07:27 <SaidTabet> Last week's minutes: any objections to accepting those?
15:07:28 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
15:07:42 <SaidTabet> Sandro: there a formatting problem int he table of contents
15:07:52 <Elisa> zakim, mute me
15:07:52 <Zakim> Elisa_Kendall should now be muted
15:08:11 <SaidTabet> Debra: I will take care of the format
15:08:18 <SaidTabet> Sandro: plain text is fine
15:08:23 <ChrisW> action: deborahN to clean up html links in Aug 1 minutes
15:08:41 <ChrisW> zakim, who is on the phone?
15:08:41 <Zakim> On the phone I see Hassan_Ait-Kaci (muted), FrankMcCabe, Philippe_Bonnard (muted), SaidTabet, Harold, ChrisW, Leora_Morgenstern (muted), Deborah_Nichols (muted), Sandro, PFPS,
15:08:44 <Zakim> ... David_Hirtle, igor (muted), Elisa_Kendall (muted), Allen_Ginsberg (muted), MarkusK (muted)
15:09:17 <SaidTabet> Any Amendements to the agenda?
15:09:48 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
15:09:54 <Zakim> +Donald_Chapin (was [IPcaller])
15:10:29 <Donald_Chapin> zakim, mute me
15:10:29 <Zakim> Donald_Chapin should now be muted
15:10:40 <Zakim> +Jeff_Pan
15:11:01 <SaidTabet> ChrisW: Sandro: you have an action to change Frank's email address?
15:11:19 <SaidTabet> Sandro: We are all set, just need to do a little administrative work
15:11:32 <SaidTabet> CSMA: still outstanding action on F2F3 minutes
15:11:44 <Donald_Chapin> zakim, unmute me
15:11:44 <Zakim> Donald_Chapin should no longer be muted
15:11:47 <SaidTabet> ChrisW: news from liaisons?
15:11:52 <Elisa> zakim, unmute me
15:11:52 <Zakim> Elisa_Kendall should no longer be muted
15:11:58 <SaidTabet> ChrisW: Elisa any news on ODM?
15:12:07 <SaidTabet> no news on ODM
15:12:40 <MoZ> MoZ has joined #rif
15:12:54 <Elisa> One small item-  we will be chartering our finalization task force for the ODM at the Anaheim meeting in September,
15:13:04 <Elisa> so anyone who wants to participate should let me know.
15:13:15 <SaidTabet> Donald: TC 37 handles terminology (SBVR is based on it). Donald will post a link
15:13:19 <Donald_Chapin> zakim, unmute me
15:13:19 <Zakim> Donald_Chapin was not muted, Donald_Chapin
15:13:34 <ChrisW> zakim, who is talking?
15:13:44 <Zakim> ChrisW, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: ChrisW (10%), Elisa_Kendall (65%), Donald_Chapin (55%)
15:13:57 <SaidTabet> Elisa: ODM is in the process of having a recommendation vote taken. Likely we will be chartering finalization task force at Anaheim meeting.
15:14:12 <Elisa> zakim, mute me
15:14:12 <Zakim> Elisa_Kendall should now be muted
15:14:14 <Donald_Chapin> zakim, mute me
15:14:14 <Zakim> Donald_Chapin should now be muted
15:14:22 <SaidTabet> Elisa: Anyone who wants to help, please touch base
15:14:51 <SaidTabet> ChrisW: traking of requirements moved to issues tracker (outcome from F2F3 meeting)
15:15:32 <SaidTabet> discussion: along the lines of starting a wiki page...but this didn't make sense since we have a mechanism for tracking
15:16:25 <SaidTabet> Sandro: what happened, at the telecon we decided to use a wiki, then CSMA and Sandro decided to use the available mechanism
15:16:50 <Zakim> +Mike_Dean
15:16:58 <SaidTabet> Sandro: subjects put on tracker are based on high level items
15:17:10 <ChrisW> http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wg/wiki/UCR/Document_issues
15:17:19 <Zakim> +Gary_Hallmark
15:17:27 <SaidTabet> ChrisW: David Hirtle: there is a wiki page called document_issues (posted above)
15:17:31 <mdean> mdean has joined #rif
15:17:39 <SaidTabet> Deborah: that's what I have as a reference to work from
15:18:11 <ChrisW> action: deborahN to move wiki page issues to tracker
15:18:41 <GaryHallmark> GaryHallmark has joined #rif
15:18:48 <SaidTabet> ChrisW: reviewing remaining action items
15:19:49 <SaidTabet> DavidHirtle: IE browser issue (also off in Firefox)....issue continued
15:20:12 <SaidTabet> Donald action: clarify with CSMA UCR working draft issue
15:20:15 <Donald_Chapin> When he comes back - continued
15:20:37 <SaidTabet> ChrisW: anything else to discuss on use cases and requirements?
15:20:39 <SaidTabet> no
15:20:53 <SaidTabet> Chrisw: moving on to RIFRAF
15:20:57 <MarkusK> yes
15:21:03 <MarkusK> it has been written
15:21:04 <MarkusK> yes
15:21:28 <SaidTabet> Frank: action continued
15:21:49 <ChrisW> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rif-wg/2006Jul/0039.html
15:22:03 <SaidTabet> ChrisW: main thing to discuss: Paula's proposed discriminators (message posted above)
15:22:04 <MoZ> MoZ has joined #rif
15:22:28 <FrankMcCabe> zakim, mute me
15:22:28 <Zakim> FrankMcCabe should now be muted
15:22:30 <SaidTabet> Describing Event Condition Action rules (ECA)
15:23:19 <SaidTabet> accept this set of discriminators as requirements for RIF? Phase 1?
15:23:39 <SaidTabet> no problem accepting them for RIFRAF....not for RIF (esp. Phase 1)
15:23:52 <Donald_Chapin> ISO Technical Committee (TC37) for Terminology Standards (http://www.iso.org/iso/en/stdsdevelopment/tc/tclist/TechnicalCommitteeDetailPage.TechnicalCommitteeDetail?COMMID=1459)  (http://www.iso.org/tc37) -- New two way active liaison with the OMG
15:23:52 <SaidTabet> any comments, questions?
15:24:06 <Donald_Chapin> q+
15:24:08 <sandro> zakim, who is on the call?
15:24:08 <Zakim> On the phone I see Hassan_Ait-Kaci (muted), FrankMcCabe (muted), Philippe_Bonnard (muted), SaidTabet, Harold, ChrisW, Leora_Morgenstern (muted), Deborah_Nichols (muted), Sandro,
15:24:11 <Zakim> ... PFPS, David_Hirtle, igor (muted), Elisa_Kendall (muted), Allen_Ginsberg (muted), MarkusK (muted), Donald_Chapin (muted), Jeff_Pan, Mike_Dean, Gary_Hallmark
15:24:13 <Donald_Chapin> zakim, unmute me
15:24:14 <Zakim> -FrankMcCabe
15:24:16 <Zakim> Donald_Chapin should no longer be muted
15:24:17 <SaidTabet> ChrisW: Frank you are allright with this?
15:24:47 <SaidTabet> Donald: small concern: quite a number of things moved from req to RIFRAF...concerned about things getting lost duringt he process
15:24:47 <FrankMcCabe> sorry I got dropped off.
15:25:00 <SaidTabet> ChrisW: RIFRAF as a formal way to define all variations in rule systems
15:25:47 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
15:25:50 <Donald_Chapin> zakim, mute me
15:25:50 <Zakim> Donald_Chapin should now be muted
15:25:50 <SaidTabet> Sandro: Donald's point: 2 parts for moving req to RIFRAF: first become discriminators and then use survey to validate that. We have not yet gathered the data for that decision
15:25:52 <FrankMcCabe> zakim, ipcaller is me
15:25:52 <Zakim> +FrankMcCabe; got it
15:26:13 <SaidTabet> ChrisW: Frank are you ok?
15:26:23 <Hassan> q+
15:26:34 <SaidTabet> ChrisW: anyone else?
15:27:16 <SaidTabet> Hassan: these discriminators make sense. They are just as good as what is right now in th questionnaire for the other rules. Focus on event handling more specifically than actions. Theya re good in my view
15:27:16 <Hassan> q-
15:27:26 <SaidTabet> Gary: I endorsed them last week and I still like them
15:27:44 <SaidTabet> ChrisW: propose to accept these discriminators for RIFRAF. Any objections?
15:27:59 <SaidTabet> ChrisW: no objections.
15:28:24 <SaidTabet> ChrisW: would like to discuss next steps: status of these set of discriminators
15:29:03 <SaidTabet> ChrisW: quite a bit orthogonal to RIF. Shall we consider them for phase 1?
15:29:14 <ChrisW> q?
15:29:16 <SaidTabet> ChrisW: or is this phase 2?
15:29:18 <ChrisW> ack don
15:29:28 <ChrisW> zakim, mute donald_chapin
15:29:28 <Zakim> Donald_Chapin should now be muted
15:29:45 <SaidTabet> Hassan: Before that, perhaps filling a questionnaire for a few languages will give us a better idea.
15:31:26 <SaidTabet> Hassan: in ILOG's rule language, we have event handling called 'chronicles'. I subscribe to this as a representative of ILOG but this is not the main representative compared to the 'CA' part of 'ECA'
15:31:48 <SaidTabet> Hassan: 'CA' rules are a higher priority
15:32:05 <SaidTabet> Gary: agrees with Hassan's comment.
15:32:43 <SaidTabet> ChrisW: where do you stand with having requirements for phase 1 or accept this as phase 2?
15:32:51 <SaidTabet> Gary: would like to see some of this as phase 1
15:33:23 <SaidTabet> ChrisW: for now, phase 1 is Horn. Do you feel that we need more than what is there with respect to Prod Rules needs?
15:34:08 <SaidTabet> +q
15:34:17 <ChrisW> try q+
15:34:20 <SaidTabet> :-)
15:34:22 <SaidTabet> q+
15:34:47 <SaidTabet> Frank: strongly suspect some of these to be phase 1
15:35:16 <SaidTabet> Frank: dealing/responding to events requires some of these for phase 1
15:35:58 <SaidTabet> Frank: to ChrisW: anything in Phase 2 would have to be expressed in terms of phase 1.
15:36:05 <SaidTabet> ChrisW: never intended to say that
15:36:22 <SaidTabet> ChrisW: RIFRAF intended to give us the framework for extensions
15:36:49 <ChrisW> q?
15:37:27 <Zakim> +Mala_Mehrotra
15:37:41 <SaidTabet> ChrisW: any other comments?
15:38:24 <SaidTabet> ChrisW: a requirement based on these set of discriminators sems to be phase 2. It will be assumed as the dfault unless we have strong argument to make this phase 1. We need a good reason to support something like that
15:38:48 <ChrisW> q?
15:38:51 <JeffP> q+
15:39:00 <SaidTabet> Hassan: mondain comments on the questionnaire:
15:39:18 <SaidTabet> there are some typos: in 2.2...
15:39:29 <SaidTabet> ChrisW: suggest to put these on an email. Hassan agreed
15:39:55 <ChrisW> ack said
15:39:58 <ChrisW> ack jeffp
15:40:19 <SaidTabet> Jeff: minor point about Prod Rules: wondering if some experts here on Prod Rules can proide some explanations and more detailed info on the wiki page
15:40:50 <ChrisW> q?
15:40:56 <SaidTabet> ChrisW: next step towards that is getting these discriminators to the RIFRAF and then make some requirements out of that. Each requirement will be described somewhere
15:41:35 <SaidTabet> ChrisW: on the technical design, there was some recent message posted by Harold and one by Hassan. I encourage everyone to read them. Technical design work continues.
15:41:49 <SaidTabet> ChrisW: Frank you had an action:
15:42:13 <SaidTabet> Frank: this is transformed into the issue on types. I will be generating a series of discriminators.
15:43:05 <SaidTabet> ChrisW: Action on PPFS...not due until end of month
15:43:42 <SaidTabet> Harold's action: done. Linked requirements in UC&R doc wih assumptions. This could be extended.
15:43:56 <SaidTabet> Any other coments on technical proposal?
15:44:05 <SaidTabet> Any other business?
15:44:07 <Hassan> +1
15:44:13 <sandro> +1 adjourn
15:44:17 <SaidTabet> ChrisW: hearing none, I propose we adjourn.
15:44:18 <Zakim> -igor
15:44:19 <Zakim> -Harold
15:44:21 <Zakim> -Allen_Ginsberg
15:44:23 <Zakim> -Deborah_Nichols
15:44:25 <Zakim> -Mala_Mehrotra
15:44:26 <SaidTabet> Meeting Adjourned
15:44:26 <Zakim> -MarkusK
15:44:27 <Zakim> -PFPS
15:44:28 <Zakim> -Elisa_Kendall
15:44:29 <Zakim> -Hassan_Ait-Kaci
15:44:30 <Zakim> -Philippe_Bonnard
15:44:32 <Zakim> -David_Hirtle
15:44:33 <Zakim> -Leora_Morgenstern
15:44:35 <Zakim> -Jeff_Pan
15:44:36 <Zakim> -Gary_Hallmark
15:44:37 <Zakim> -Mike_Dean
15:44:39 <Zakim> -Donald_Chapin
15:44:41 <Zakim> -FrankMcCabe
15:44:41 <ChrisW> rrsagent, make minutes
15:44:41 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2006/08/08-rif-minutes.html ChrisW
15:46:01 <Zakim> -Sandro
15:46:02 <Zakim> -SaidTabet
15:46:07 <Zakim> -ChrisW
15:46:09 <Zakim> SW_RIF()11:00AM has ended
15:46:10 <Zakim> Attendees were Hassan_Ait-Kaci, FrankMcCabe, Philippe_Bonnard, SaidTabet, Harold, ChrisW, Deborah_Nichols, Leora_Morgenstern, Sandro, PFPS, David_Hirtle, Elisa_Kendall, igor,
15:46:12 <Zakim> ... Allen_Ginsberg, MarkusK, Donald_Chapin, Jeff_Pan, Mike_Dean, Gary_Hallmark, Mala_Mehrotra
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