IRC log of rif on 2006-05-16

Timestamps are in UTC.

14:54:56 [RRSAgent]: RRSAgent has joined #rif
14:54:56 [RRSAgent]: logging to http://www.w3.org/2006/05/16-rif-irc
14:55:00 [sandro]: zakim, this will be rif
14:55:00 [Zakim]: ok, sandro, I see SW_RIF()11:00AM already started
14:55:12 [sandro]: RRSAgent, draft minutes
14:55:13 [RRSAgent]: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2006/05/16-rif-minutes.html sandro
14:55:17 [Donald_Chapin]: Donald_Chapin has joined #rif
14:55:20 [sandro]: RRSAgent, make record public
14:55:36 [Zakim]: +Dave_Reynolds (was Guest P1 74394)
14:55:37 [Zakim]: +Dave_Reynolds
14:55:52 [Zakim]: +Sandro
14:56:02 [sandro]: zakim, who is on the call?
14:56:02 [Zakim]: On the phone I see Hassan_Ait-Kaci, Dave_Reynolds, Sandro
14:56:36 [aharth]: aharth has joined #rif
14:56:42 [Zakim]: +Evan_Wallace
14:56:45 [Zakim]: +??P9
14:57:17 [Zakim]: +[IPcaller]
14:57:23 [Zakim]: +Donald_Chapin (was [IPcaller])
14:57:44 [Donald_Chapin]: zakim, mute me
14:57:44 [Zakim]: Donald_Chapin should now be muted
14:58:02 [Zakim]: +??P12
14:58:04 [Zakim]: +Andreas_Harth (was ??P9)
14:58:05 [Zakim]: +Philippe_Bonnard (was ??P12)
14:58:09 [PhilippeB]: Zakim, mute me
14:58:09 [Zakim]: Philippe_Bonnard should now be muted
14:58:14 [josb]: josb has joined #rif
14:58:25 [csma]: csma has joined #rif
14:58:38 [Allen]: Allen has joined #rif
14:58:48 [Zakim]: +PaulaP
14:59:32 [Zakim]: +??P14
14:59:36 [Zakim]: +Allen_Ginsberg
14:59:47 [Allen]: zakim, mute me
14:59:47 [Zakim]: Allen_Ginsberg should now be muted
14:59:51 [sandro]: sandro has changed the topic to: 16 May Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rif-wg/2006May/0177
15:00:19 [Harold]: Harold has joined #rif
15:00:28 [mdean]: mdean has joined #rif
15:00:33 [Zakim]: +??P4
15:00:42 [csma]: zakim, ??P4 is me
15:00:42 [Zakim]: +csma; got it
15:00:46 [GiorgosStoilos]: GiorgosStoilos has joined #RIF
15:00:57 [Zakim]: +David_Hirtle
15:01:17 [DaveReynolds]: ScribeNick: DaveReynolds
15:01:18 [Zakim]: +[NRCC]
15:01:31 [Harold]: zakim, [NRCC] is me
15:01:31 [Zakim]: +Harold; got it
15:01:43 [MarkusK]: MarkusK has joined #rif
15:01:54 [DaveReynolds]: Chair: csma
15:01:59 [AxelPolleres]: AxelPolleres has joined #rif
15:02:07 [Zakim]: +GiorgosStoilos
15:02:34 [Uli]: Uli has joined #rif
15:02:38 [igor]: igor has joined #rif
15:02:41 [Zakim]: +Axel_Polleres
15:02:59 [Stella_Mitchell]: Stella_Mitchell has joined #rif
15:03:18 [MoZ]: MoZ has joined #rif
15:03:32 [MoZ]: Zakim, what is the code ?
15:03:32 [Zakim]: the conference code is 74394 (tel:+1.617.761.6200), MoZ
15:03:36 [Zakim]: +Igor_Mozetic
15:03:42 [JeffP]: JeffP has joined #rif
15:03:49 [igor]: zakim, mute me
15:03:49 [Zakim]: Igor_Mozetic should now be muted
15:03:52 [Darko]: Darko has joined #rif
15:03:59 [Zakim]: +[IBM]
15:04:02 [johnhall]: johnhall has joined #rif
15:04:03 [Zakim]: +??P18
15:04:09 [Allen]: I will be ther
15:04:14 [PaulV]: PaulV has joined #RIF
15:04:19 [Zakim]: +moz
15:04:23 [Uli]: zakim, ??P18 is uli
15:04:24 [Zakim]: +uli; got it
15:04:25 [DaveReynolds]: csma: will next meeting be quorate due to www2006?
15:04:34 [sandro]: +1 will attend next week
15:04:37 [josb]: +1
15:04:40 [DaveReynolds]: -1, sorry
15:04:40 [EvanWallace]: +1
15:04:42 [igor]: +1 next week
15:04:42 [AxelPolleres]: +1
15:04:44 [aharth]: +1
15:04:47 [PaulaP]: +1 next telecon
15:04:51 [Hassan]: -1 I will not attend
15:04:52 [Uli]: -1
15:04:56 [Zakim]: +??P22
15:04:56 [GaryHallmark]: GaryHallmark has joined #rif
15:05:00 [PhilippeB]: -1
15:05:00 [Donald_Chapin]: -1 Donald sorry
15:05:02 [Zakim]: +[IPcaller]
15:05:03 [MoZ]: -1 sorry
15:05:14 [johnhall]: zakim, ipcaller is me
15:05:14 [Zakim]: +johnhall; got it
15:05:15 [Allen]: -1 will be www2006
15:05:18 [Zakim]: +??P27
15:05:23 [johnhall]: zakim, mute me
15:05:23 [Zakim]: johnhall should now be muted
15:05:27 [DavidHirtle]: +1 I will attend
15:05:30 [Deborah_Nichols]: Deborah_Nichols has joined #rif
15:05:32 [Zakim]: +Mike_Dean
15:05:44 [Zakim]: +Gary_Hallmark
15:06:00 [JeffP]: +1
15:06:06 [PaulV]: +1
15:06:11 [mdean]: -1 will not attend
15:06:25 [Zakim]: +Deborah_Nichols
15:06:30 [DaveReynolds]: csma: will go ahead with telecon
15:06:40 [Darko]: Zakim, +??P27 is me
15:06:40 [Zakim]: sorry, Darko, I do not recognize a party named '+??P27'
15:07:05 [Darko]: Zakim, +??P22 is me
15:07:05 [Zakim]: sorry, Darko, I do not recognize a party named '+??P22'
15:07:11 [MoZ]: Zakim, ??P27 is Darko
15:07:11 [Zakim]: +Darko; got it
15:07:42 [sandro]: +1 delay accepting minutes until scribe is done with them
15:07:47 [PaulaP]: +1
15:07:50 [sandro]: (another week)
15:07:52 [DaveReynolds]: csma: wait until next meeting to accept minutes from last telecon
15:08:16 [DaveReynolds]: Topic: F2F Meetings
15:08:42 [Zakim]: -GiorgosStoilos
15:08:43 [MoZ_]: MoZ_ has joined #rif
15:09:19 [DaveReynolds]: Paula: reminder to register for f2f, form open until June 3
15:09:25 [Zakim]: +GiorgosStoilos
15:09:46 [Zakim]: +??P33
15:09:58 [AxelPolleres]: Remark: please register f2f3 the sooner the better, we need an estimate how many persons come.
15:10:30 [Zakim]: +[IPcaller]
15:10:37 [DaveReynolds]: Topic: Liaison
15:11:20 [AxelPolleres]: josderoo cannot be heard...
15:11:23 [DaveReynolds]: Action: Jos to Identify someone to do the liasion with DAWB [CONTINUED]
15:11:31 [DaveReynolds]: s/DAWB/DAWG/
15:12:31 [Donald_Chapin]: SBVR - nothing new
15:12:53 [Donald_Chapin]: Thanks
15:13:06 [SaidTabet]: SaidTabet has joined #RIF
15:13:12 [josb]: s/Jos/JosDeRoo/
15:13:14 [igor]: igor has joined #rif
15:14:07 [JosDeRoo]: JosDeRoo has joined #rif
15:15:16 [DaveReynolds]: Action all review web service policy WG charter, for next meeting
15:15:37 [DaveReynolds]: Topic: Use Cases and Requirements
15:15:51 [AxelPolleres]: q+
15:16:31 [DaveReynolds]: cmsa actions 9 and 10 are continued
15:17:05 [Allen]: q+
15:17:16 [DaveReynolds]: PaulaP: new draft refining Frank's proposal with some of Paula's CSF integrated in progress
15:17:32 [DaveReynolds]: PaulaP: plan to do more
15:17:46 [DaveReynolds]: action 12 on FrankMcCabe is continued
15:17:47 [csma]: q?
15:18:00 [Allen]: zakim, unmute me
15:18:00 [Zakim]: Allen_Ginsberg should no longer be muted
15:18:16 [sandro]: +1 action items must be on one person
15:18:26 [DaveReynolds]: Axel: can't place action on whole group to review the WS policy charter
15:19:50 [csma]: ack axel
15:19:52 [Elisa]: Elisa has joined #rif
15:21:37 [Zakim]: +Said_Tabet
15:21:43 [SaidTabet]: zakim, mute me
15:21:43 [Zakim]: Said_Tabet should now be muted
15:21:56 [Allen]: q-
15:22:03 [Allen]: zakim, mute me
15:22:03 [Zakim]: Allen_Ginsberg should now be muted
15:22:05 [DaveReynolds]: csma: re: WS policy charter review, post comments to list if can't be at next telecon
15:22:06 [csma]: q?
15:23:06 [DaveReynolds]: zakim, who is on the call?
15:23:06 [Zakim]: On the phone I see Hassan_Ait-Kaci (muted), Dave_Reynolds, Sandro, Evan_Wallace, Andreas_Harth, Donald_Chapin (muted), Philippe_Bonnard (muted), PaulaP, josb (muted),
15:23:09 [Zakim]: ... Allen_Ginsberg (muted), csma, David_Hirtle, Harold, Axel_Polleres (muted), Igor_Mozetic (muted), [IBM] (muted), uli (muted), moz, JeffP, johnhall (muted), Darko, Mike_Dean,
15:23:11 [Zakim]: ... Gary_Hallmark, Deborah_Nichols (muted), GiorgosStoilos, ??P33, MarkusK (muted), Said_Tabet (muted)
15:23:45 [Allen]: zakim, unmute me
15:23:45 [Zakim]: Allen_Ginsberg should no longer be muted
15:23:49 [Allen]: q+
15:23:56 [PaulaP]: q+
15:24:01 [DaveReynolds]: csma: propose adding use case specifically to cover matchng XML documents
15:24:07 [csma]: ack allen
15:24:17 [AxelPolleres]: When is the next version due?
15:24:40 [DaveReynolds]: Allen: could add to list of use cases rather than add to the 8 summary ones?
15:24:57 [Zakim]: +Elisa_Kendall
15:25:06 [Elisa]: zakim, mute me
15:25:06 [Zakim]: Elisa_Kendall should now be muted
15:25:09 [DaveReynolds]: Allen: take it from the public comment http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rif-wg/2006May/0152.html ?
15:25:48 [csma]: q?
15:26:17 [csma]: ack paula
15:26:36 [DaveReynolds]: Paula: already have a use case on working with XML data, is it not enough?
15:26:38 [DavidHirtle]: here's the link to the XML use case: http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wg/wiki/Rule-Based_Combined_Access_to_XML_and_RDF_Data
15:26:51 [DavidHirtle]: (also included in my email yesterday)
15:27:50 [DaveReynolds]: csma: question to GaryHallmark, does his use case fit the commenters or Paulas?
15:29:05 [DaveReynolds]: GarryHallmark: the commenter is primarily suggesting integrity rules
15:29:29 [DaveReynolds]: GarryHallmark: this is very much on target for his users
15:29:49 [DaveReynolds]: GarryHallmark: current use cases are "thin" in covering this requirement
15:30:32 [sandro]: s/Garry/Gary/
15:30:48 [pfps]: pfps has joined #rif
15:30:59 [DaveReynolds]: ACTION: GaryHallmark to draft XML use case based on one submitted by reviewer and own use cases
15:31:15 [Zakim]: +??P31
15:31:23 [pfps]: zakim, ??p31 is me
15:31:23 [Zakim]: +pfps; got it
15:32:44 [csma]: q?
15:33:12 [DaveReynolds]: Sandro: suggests showing draft use case text to the reviewer
15:33:31 [Allen]: zakim , mute me
15:33:51 [Allen]: zakim, mute me
15:33:51 [Zakim]: Allen_Ginsberg should now be muted
15:34:08 [PaulaP]: q+
15:34:19 [csma]: ack paulap
15:34:42 [DaveReynolds]: csma: any one have comments on the second review input?
15:34:59 [DaveReynolds]: csma: he seems to be registered as a WG participant and so could review the next draft!
15:35:03 [josb]: Sven Groope is not actively involved in the WG
15:35:05 [AxelPolleres]: :-)
15:35:18 [josb]: s/Groope/Groppe/
15:35:50 [DaveReynolds]: csma: no date fixed for next draft
15:36:50 [DaveReynolds]: Sandro: reminder members of group should not act as member of public, but bring comments to the group directly and participate
15:37:29 [DaveReynolds]: SubTopic: Discuss new CSF/Requirements
15:38:12 [DaveReynolds]: First discussion: name for SH Prolog
15:38:31 [DaveReynolds]: csma: there was a proposal to just talk about ordered horn clauses
15:39:13 [DaveReynolds]: Next discussion: soundness
15:39:56 [DaveReynolds]: Sandro: conclusion that soundness means that inference procedures obey the semantics of the language
15:40:19 [igor]: igor has joined #rif
15:40:23 [DaveReynolds]: Sandro: seems to be no disagreement now
15:40:35 [MoZ_]: MoZ_ has joined #rif
15:40:46 [csma]: q?
15:41:34 [sandro]: RRSAgent, make minutes
15:41:34 [RRSAgent]: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2006/05/16-rif-minutes.html sandro
15:41:59 [PaulaP]: q+
15:42:07 [DaveReynolds]: Sandro: will keep progressing this if something more is needed
15:42:18 [csma]: ack paula
15:42:23 [MoZ__]: MoZ__ has joined #rif
15:42:26 [DaveReynolds]: Paula: suggest wait for new list of requirements and see if this one is covered
15:42:40 [DaveReynolds]: Next discussion: FOL
15:43:47 [DaveReynolds]: Next topic: Frank's GCR document
15:44:24 [DaveReynolds]: Paula: have modified document
15:44:40 [Allen]: q+
15:44:40 [DaveReynolds]: Paula: worked out some new CSFs but not yet put them in document
15:45:47 [DaveReynolds]: Paula: still a draft, hope to have something for discussion and feedback about next week
15:46:11 [Allen]: zakim, unmute me
15:46:11 [Zakim]: Allen_Ginsberg should no longer be muted
15:46:13 [DaveReynolds]: Paula: aim for draft ready for f2f3 meeting
15:46:20 [csma]: q?
15:46:30 [csma]: ack paulap
15:46:41 [JosDeRoo]: the diff seems to be http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wg/wiki/Goals%2C_Critical_Success_Factors_and_Requirements?action=diff&rev2=5&rev1=4
15:46:56 [DaveReynolds]: Allen: suggested modified text for first goal, not yet posted to whole group
15:47:26 [PaulaP]: q+
15:47:46 [csma]: ack allen
15:47:46 [DaveReynolds]: Allen: would like to use notion of rule language families to help to structure the description
15:47:53 [csma]: ack paulap
15:48:20 [DaveReynolds]: ACTION: Allen to post his proposal to the mail list
15:48:26 [Allen]: q-
15:48:37 [Allen]: zakim, unmute me
15:48:37 [Zakim]: Allen_Ginsberg was not muted, Allen
15:48:45 [DaveReynolds]: Topic: RIFRAF
15:49:55 [DaveReynolds]: action 15 on AxelPolleres [CONTINUED] extend to cover WRL as well
15:50:41 [DaveReynolds]: action 16 on Hassan [DONE]
15:51:00 [MichaelKifer]: MichaelKifer has joined #rif
15:51:06 [DaveReynolds]: action 18 on pfps [DONE]
15:51:16 [DaveReynolds]: action 17 on Paula [CONTINUED]
15:51:44 [DaveReynolds]: csma: to Hassan, would it be interesting to apply RIFRAF to a pure constraint rule language
15:52:02 [DaveReynolds]: Hassan: yes for a rule-based constraint language like Life, already done
15:52:13 [csma]: q?
15:52:22 [JosDeRoo]: csma, I guess you can edit action 16 via http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wg/track/actions/16/edit
15:52:35 [DaveReynolds]: Harold: will respond on Hassan's suggestions, points out that RIFRAF is only intended for phase 1
15:53:11 [DaveReynolds]: Hassan: hopes the feedback will prompt a more complete ontology
15:53:27 [JeffP]: q+
15:53:32 [DaveReynolds]: csma: call for more volunteers to apply RIFRAF to their own rule language
15:53:43 [csma]: q?
15:53:49 [PaulaP]: q?
15:54:00 [Zakim]: +Michael_Kifer
15:54:09 [SaidTabet]: Agree with Sandro! good point
15:54:18 [csma]: ack jeffp
15:54:41 [DaveReynolds]: Sandro: suggests waiting, giving time for RIFRAF to be modified before kicking off more
15:55:08 [DaveReynolds]: JeffPan: Looking at Constraint Interchange Format and how that would map to RIFRAF
15:55:31 [DaveReynolds]: JeffPan: CIF comes from the AKT project
15:56:15 [DaveReynolds]: Harold: agree that it is best to work more on the schema before coming back to instances
15:56:50 [DaveReynolds]: MichaelKifer: tried to put RIFRAF into a pictorial form
15:57:11 [csma]: q?
15:57:23 [DaveReynolds]: MichaelKifer: lots of orthogonal features that can be combined in different ways, hard to put in 2D diagram
15:57:57 [DaveReynolds]: MichaelKifer: means that not all describable languages correspond to nodes on the diagram, just too many combinations to show
15:58:11 [Hassan]: q+
15:58:53 [csma]: q?
15:59:33 [DaveReynolds]: Hassan: question to MichaelKifer, HiLog is a language shouldn't be part of abstract classification
15:59:44 [DaveReynolds]: MichaelKifer: no HiLog is not a language
16:00:07 [DaveReynolds]: MichaelKifer: it's an idea of adding higher order features to first order logic
16:00:43 [DaveReynolds]: MichaelKifer: could add comment to clarify this
16:01:01 [DaveReynolds]: MichaelKifer: other terms like NAF and Fuzzy would need at least as much clarification
16:01:21 [Hassan]: q-
16:01:47 [Hassan]: q+
16:01:48 [DaveReynolds]: csma: how see this classification used in the WG?
16:02:13 [DaveReynolds]: MichaelKifer: e.g. could be basis for tags which can be attached to rule set
16:02:26 [Zakim]: -Philippe_Bonnard
16:02:32 [DaveReynolds]: csma: also useful to check coverage
16:03:27 [DaveReynolds]: Hassan: points out references on conceptual scaling, formal approach to forming such lattices
16:04:00 [DaveReynolds]: csma: but it is instance driven, you need a number of examles
16:04:09 [DaveReynolds]: s/examles/examples/
16:04:24 [Hassan]: q-
16:04:38 [DaveReynolds]: Topic: Technical Design
16:05:18 [DaveReynolds]: csma: want to examine what action is needed to follow up on the proposal from Harold et al
16:05:35 [DaveReynolds]: csma: has impression that there is general agreement that the approach is interesting
16:05:46 [sandro]: zakim, who is on the phone?
16:05:46 [Zakim]: On the phone I see Hassan_Ait-Kaci (muted), Dave_Reynolds, Sandro, Evan_Wallace, Andreas_Harth, Donald_Chapin (muted), PaulaP (muted), josb (muted), Allen_Ginsberg, csma,
16:05:50 [Zakim]: ... David_Hirtle, Harold, Axel_Polleres (muted), Igor_Mozetic (muted), [IBM] (muted), uli (muted), moz, JeffP, johnhall (muted), Darko, Mike_Dean, Gary_Hallmark, Deborah_Nichols
16:05:54 [Zakim]: ... (muted), GiorgosStoilos, JosDeRoo (muted), MarkusK (muted), Said_Tabet (muted), Elisa_Kendall (muted), pfps, Michael_Kifer
16:06:28 [DaveReynolds]: csma: declarations of variables, quantification, typing - is that part of the condition language?
16:06:51 [DaveReynolds]: Harold: layered system, starts from positive conditions, type system supposed to be optional
16:07:57 [DaveReynolds]: Harold: some types may be delegated to RDF Schema or OWL
16:08:23 [DaveReynolds]: csma: if have logical rules, conclusion is expressed in same language as condition part, at least syntactically
16:08:49 [DaveReynolds]: Harold: started specifically with the condition part only
16:09:27 [DaveReynolds]: Harold: for horn the atomic clauses in conclusion are indeed the same as in the condition part
16:10:16 [DaveReynolds]: csma: Sense that people agree with notion of starting with the condition part, calls for round table check of views
16:10:36 [csma]: zakim, who is on the call?
16:10:36 [Zakim]: On the phone I see Hassan_Ait-Kaci (muted), Dave_Reynolds, Sandro, Evan_Wallace, Andreas_Harth, Donald_Chapin (muted), PaulaP (muted), josb (muted), Allen_Ginsberg, csma,
16:10:40 [Zakim]: ... David_Hirtle, Harold, Axel_Polleres (muted), Igor_Mozetic (muted), [IBM] (muted), uli (muted), moz, JeffP, johnhall (muted), Darko, Mike_Dean, Gary_Hallmark, Deborah_Nichols
16:10:44 [Zakim]: ... (muted), GiorgosStoilos, JosDeRoo (muted), MarkusK (muted), Said_Tabet (muted), Elisa_Kendall (muted), pfps, Michael_Kifer
16:10:47 [Zakim]: -[IBM]
16:11:14 [Zakim]: -Darko
16:11:37 [DaveReynolds]: Hassan: proposal with rule condition parts is just one way to express something used in many rule languages
16:12:15 [sandro]: Who is "IBM"?
16:12:28 [sandro]: I wonder if it was Stella....
16:12:29 [Zakim]: +??P17
16:12:39 [SaidTabet]: q+
16:12:41 [Darko]: zakim, P17 is me
16:12:41 [Zakim]: sorry, Darko, I do not recognize a party named 'P17'
16:12:56 [DaveReynolds]: DaveReynolds: happy as starting point, details to work through
16:13:03 [SaidTabet]: q-
16:13:06 [Donald_Chapin]: zakim, unmute me
16:13:06 [Zakim]: Donald_Chapin should no longer be muted
16:13:07 [MoZ]: Zakim, P17 is Darko
16:13:08 [Zakim]: sorry, MoZ, I do not recognize a party named 'P17'
16:13:14 [MoZ]: Zakim, ??P17 is Darko
16:13:14 [Zakim]: +Darko; got it
16:13:15 [DaveReynolds]: Sandro: yes in same way
16:13:33 [DaveReynolds]: Evan: no opinion
16:13:45 [DaveReynolds]: Andreas: yes, but not with XML syntax
16:13:56 [DaveReynolds]: DonaldChapin: would need to consult with SVBR team
16:14:02 [Donald_Chapin]: zakim, unmute me
16:14:02 [Zakim]: Donald_Chapin was not muted, Donald_Chapin
16:14:08 [DaveReynolds]: Paula: yes fully supporting proposal
16:14:12 [DaveReynolds]: Josb: yes
16:14:12 [Donald_Chapin]: zakim, mute me
16:14:12 [Zakim]: Donald_Chapin should now be muted
16:14:42 [DavidHirtle]: s/SVBR/SBVR
16:14:44 [DaveReynolds]: Allen: yes, a way to describe the things you are talking about in the language
16:14:53 [DaveReynolds]: csma: +1 to Allen
16:15:01 [DaveReynolds]: DavidHirtle: yes
16:15:07 [DaveReynolds]: Harold: yes!
16:15:08 [igor]: zakim, unmute me
16:15:08 [Zakim]: Igor_Mozetic should no longer be muted
16:15:21 [DaveReynolds]: Axel: yes, comments on details
16:15:25 [DaveReynolds]: Igor: yes, good start
16:15:33 [igor]: zakim, mute me
16:15:33 [Zakim]: Igor_Mozetic should now be muted
16:15:42 [DaveReynolds]: Uli: yes, contains eveything needed in conditions, good start
16:15:55 [johnhall]: yes
16:15:57 [DaveReynolds]: moz: yes
16:16:00 [DaveReynolds]: JeffP: yes
16:16:02 [sandro]: ack johnhall
16:16:16 [DaveReynolds]: JohnHall: yes
16:16:17 [Darko]: yes
16:16:23 [DaveReynolds]: Darko: yes
16:16:25 [johnhall]: zakim, mute me
16:16:25 [Zakim]: johnhall should now be muted
16:16:28 [DaveReynolds]: MikeDead: yes
16:16:34 [Elisa]: zakim, unmute me
16:16:34 [Zakim]: Elisa_Kendall should no longer be muted
16:16:35 [DaveReynolds]: s/Dead/Dean/
16:16:52 [DaveReynolds]: Gary: yes
16:17:07 [DaveReynolds]: Deborah: yes
16:17:10 [GiorgosStoilos]: yes
16:17:15 [DaveReynolds]: GiorgosStoilos: yes
16:17:24 [SaidTabet]: zakim, unmute me
16:17:25 [Zakim]: Said_Tabet should no longer be muted
16:17:26 [sandro]: ack SaidTabet
16:17:35 [DaveReynolds]: JosDeRoo: yes, core close to SPARQL language good candidate
16:17:53 [DaveReynolds]: MarkusK: yes
16:17:54 [SaidTabet]: zakim, mute me
16:17:54 [Zakim]: Said_Tabet should now be muted
16:18:00 [DaveReynolds]: Said: yes
16:18:03 [sandro]: JosDeRoo: The SPARQL Where Clause should be considered (without Filter) as the Condition language here
16:18:30 [DaveReynolds]: Elisa: yes, mentions work on extending ODM to support rules and this subset would be a good candidate starting point for them
16:18:32 [AxelPolleres]: Refinement for the notes: Jos said, SAPARGL *WHERE clause*. IMO, we should also have full sparql queries in rule bodies
16:18:37 [Elisa]: zakim, mute me
16:18:37 [Zakim]: Elisa_Kendall should now be muted
16:19:08 [DaveReynolds]: pfps: no, can't support it, semantics part is nearly missing (just substitution)
16:19:33 [DaveReynolds]: pfps: syntax is not bad, but can't stamp this document as a good start
16:20:04 [EvanWallace]: s/SAPARGL/SPARQL/
16:21:20 [Francois]: Francois has joined #rif
16:21:22 [MichaelKifer]: q+
16:22:10 [DaveReynolds]: csma: suggests trying mappings from existing languages into this proposal
16:22:33 [DaveReynolds]: pfps: the document itself is not suff. well defined to do this from just the document
16:23:07 [DaveReynolds]: q+
16:23:35 [sandro]: ack MichaelKifer
16:23:44 [DaveReynolds]: csma: map both ways round and explain how their engine would interpret this condition language
16:24:16 [DaveReynolds]: MichaelKifer: respond to pfps, the semantics is an attribute of the rule language not of the condition language
16:24:32 [DaveReynolds]: MichaelKifer: just defined a notion of satisfaction of conditions
16:25:24 [DaveReynolds]: ack me
16:25:25 [MichaelKifer]: q-
16:27:55 [DaveReynolds]: csma: mapping would illuminate "what it would mean to interpret the condition language in their own rule language"
16:28:06 [AxelPolleres]: q+
16:28:14 [csma]: q?
16:28:51 [DaveReynolds]: Axel volunteers to do such a mapping for ?
16:29:30 [AxelPolleres]: WRL, and DLV, check whether conditions allowed in these languages are covered by the proposal
16:29:40 [DaveReynolds]: pfps: could provide one for SWRL, in fact several are possible
16:30:02 [DaveReynolds]: Hassan: could do one
16:30:11 [AxelPolleres]: Shouldn't we record action items?
16:30:27 [DaveReynolds]: Quite, are these formal actions?
16:30:43 [DaveReynolds]: ACTION: pfps to suggest a SWRL mapping
16:30:49 [Harold]: q+
16:30:53 [AxelPolleres]: q=
16:30:57 [DaveReynolds]: ACTION: Axel to suggest mapping for WRL and DLV
16:30:58 [AxelPolleres]: q-
16:31:20 [DaveReynolds]: ACTION: Hassan to suggest mapping for ILOG
16:31:33 [DaveReynolds]: ACTION: Harold to put proposal on the Wiki
16:32:02 [DaveReynolds]: Sandro: suggests we should have an editor for the doc soonish
16:32:11 [Zakim]: -MarkusK
16:32:12 [Uli]: Uli has left #rif
16:32:17 [Allen]: bye
16:32:17 [SaidTabet]: thanks Christian! bye everyone
16:32:18 [Zakim]: -uli
16:32:18 [PaulaP]: bye
16:32:20 [Zakim]: -Igor_Mozetic
16:32:21 [Zakim]: -Gary_Hallmark
16:32:22 [Darko]: -Darko
16:32:22 [Zakim]: -Andreas_Harth
16:32:24 [Zakim]: -Deborah_Nichols
16:32:24 [Zakim]: -JosDeRoo
16:32:25 [Zakim]: -Sandro
16:32:25 [Zakim]: -Axel_Polleres
16:32:26 [Zakim]: -Evan_Wallace
16:32:27 [Zakim]: -GiorgosStoilos
16:32:28 [igor]: bye
16:32:29 [Zakim]: -Harold
16:32:31 [Zakim]: -Michael_Kifer
16:32:33 [Zakim]: -Said_Tabet
16:32:34 [Elisa]: bye
16:32:35 [Zakim]: -Elisa_Kendall
16:32:37 [Zakim]: -PaulaP
16:32:39 [Zakim]: -moz
16:32:40 [JosDeRoo]: bye
16:32:41 [Zakim]: -Hassan_Ait-Kaci
16:32:43 [Zakim]: -johnhall
16:32:45 [Zakim]: -Darko
16:32:45 [PaulV]: bye
16:32:47 [Zakim]: -Allen_Ginsberg
16:32:49 [Zakim]: -David_Hirtle
16:32:51 [Zakim]: -JeffP
16:32:53 [Zakim]: -Donald_Chapin
16:32:55 [Zakim]: -josb
16:32:57 [Zakim]: -Mike_Dean
16:33:01 [Zakim]: -pfps
16:33:16 [DaveReynolds]: rrsagent, draft minutes
16:33:16 [RRSAgent]: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2006/05/16-rif-minutes.html DaveReynolds
16:33:23 [sandro]: rrsagent, make minutes
16:33:23 [RRSAgent]: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2006/05/16-rif-minutes.html sandro
16:38:08 [Zakim]: -Dave_Reynolds
16:38:10 [Zakim]: -csma
16:38:11 [Zakim]: SW_RIF()11:00AM has ended
16:38:13 [Zakim]: Attendees were Hassan_Ait-Kaci, Dave_Reynolds, Sandro, Evan_Wallace, Donald_Chapin, Andreas_Harth, Philippe_Bonnard, PaulaP, Allen_Ginsberg, josb, csma, David_Hirtle, Harold,
16:38:17 [Zakim]: ... GiorgosStoilos, Axel_Polleres, Igor_Mozetic, [IBM], moz, uli, johnhall, JeffP, Mike_Dean, Gary_Hallmark, Deborah_Nichols, Darko, MarkusK, Said_Tabet, Elisa_Kendall, JosDeRoo,
16:38:20 [Zakim]: ... pfps, Michael_Kifer
16:47:52 [MoZ]: Zakim, bye
16:47:52 [Zakim]: Zakim has left #rif
18:06:19 [csma]: csma has left #rif
20:35:12 [sandro]: sandro has joined #rif