IRC log of rif on 2006-05-09

Timestamps are in UTC.

14:27:29 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #rif
14:27:29 [RRSAgent]
logging to http://www.w3.org/2006/05/09-rif-irc
14:27:34 [sandro]
zakim, this will be rif
14:27:34 [Zakim]
ok, sandro; I see SW_RIF()11:00AM scheduled to start in 33 minutes
14:36:50 [ChrisW]
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14:38:09 [ChrisW]
ChrisW has changed the topic to: 9 May Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rif-wg/2006May/0109.html
14:39:04 [ChrisW]
zakim, this will be rif
14:39:04 [Zakim]
ok, ChrisW; I see SW_RIF()11:00AM scheduled to start in 21 minutes
14:39:49 [ChrisW]
rrsagent, make minutes
14:39:49 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2006/05/09-rif-minutes.html ChrisW
14:43:50 [sandro]
RRSAgent, make record public
14:47:55 [ChrisW]
ChrisW has joined #rif
14:48:33 [StanDevitt]
StanDevitt has joined #rif
14:48:50 [ChrisW]
did everyone just get bumped?
14:49:02 [StanDevitt]
I just connected.
14:49:43 [Zakim]
SW_RIF()11:00AM has now started
14:49:50 [Zakim]
+[IPcaller]
14:50:02 [StanDevitt]
zakim, IPcaller is me
14:50:02 [Zakim]
+StanDevitt; got it
14:51:05 [ChrisW]
stan, are you all set?
14:51:11 [StanDevitt]
Yes.
14:51:23 [ChrisW]
scribenick: StanDevitt
14:53:50 [ChrisW]
Meeting: RIF Telecon 9 May 2006
14:53:57 [ChrisW]
Chair: ChrisW
14:54:27 [PhilippeB]
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14:54:43 [PhilippeB]
PhilippeB has left #rif
14:55:29 [ChrisW]
zakim, next agendum
14:55:29 [Zakim]
I see nothing on the agenda
14:55:30 [Hassan]
Hassan has joined #rif
14:55:32 [MarkusK]
MarkusK has joined #rif
14:55:53 [EvanWallace]
EvanWallace has joined #rif
14:56:07 [Zakim]
+Hassan_Ait-Kaci
14:56:33 [DavidHirtle]
DavidHirtle has joined #rif
14:57:08 [ChrisW]
zakim, read agenda from http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rif-wg/2006May/0109.html
14:57:08 [Zakim]
working on it, ChrisW
14:57:09 [Zakim]
done reading agenda, ChrisW
14:57:20 [PhilippeB]
PhilippeB has joined #rif
14:57:20 [ChrisW]
zakim, next agendum
14:57:20 [Zakim]
I see nothing on the agenda
14:57:27 [ChrisW]
zakim, list agenda
14:57:27 [Zakim]
I see nothing on the agenda
14:58:14 [Zakim]
+[IBM]
14:58:23 [der]
der has joined #rif
14:58:31 [Zakim]
+??P29
14:58:34 [Zakim]
+[IPcaller]
14:58:35 [Allen]
Allen has joined #rif
14:58:39 [Zakim]
+Philippe_Bonnard (was ??P29)
14:58:42 [PhilippeB]
Zakim, mute me
14:58:42 [Zakim]
Philippe_Bonnard should now be muted
14:58:52 [ChrisW]
zakim, [ibm] contains ChrisW, Stella_Mitchell
14:58:52 [Zakim]
+ChrisW, Stella_Mitchell; got it
14:59:07 [Zakim]
+Allen_Ginsberg
14:59:22 [Allen]
zakim, mute me
14:59:22 [Zakim]
Allen_Ginsberg should now be muted
14:59:25 [Zakim]
+Dave_Reynolds (was Guest P40 74394)
14:59:29 [Zakim]
+Dave_Reynolds
14:59:52 [ChrisW]
zakim, who is on the phone?
14:59:52 [Zakim]
On the phone I see StanDevitt (muted), Hassan_Ait-Kaci (muted), [IBM], Philippe_Bonnard (muted), MarkusK (muted), Allen_Ginsberg (muted), Dave_Reynolds
14:59:57 [Zakim]
[IBM] has ChrisW, Stella_Mitchell
15:00:02 [AxelPolleres]
AxelPolleres has joined #rif
15:00:06 [IanH]
IanH has joined #rif
15:00:12 [patranja]
patranja has joined #rif
15:00:18 [johnhall]
johnhall has joined #rif
15:00:28 [Zakim]
+??P45
15:00:32 [LeoraMorgenstern]
LeoraMorgenstern has joined #rif
15:00:32 [Zakim]
+Evan_Wallace
15:00:55 [Zakim]
+David_Hirtle
15:01:02 [pfps]
pfps has joined #rif
15:01:10 [Zakim]
+Axel_Polleres
15:01:29 [Zakim]
+Leora_Morgenstern
15:01:36 [Zakim]
+??P19
15:01:37 [Zakim]
+PaulaP
15:01:39 [LeoraMorgenstern]
zakim, mute me
15:01:39 [Zakim]
Leora_Morgenstern should now be muted
15:01:42 [pfps]
zakim, ??p19 is me
15:01:42 [Zakim]
+pfps; got it
15:02:00 [Zakim]
+Sandro
15:02:13 [Zakim]
+[IPcaller]
15:02:14 [johnhall]
Zakim, IPcaller is me
15:02:14 [Zakim]
+johnhall; got it
15:02:53 [JeffP]
JeffP has joined #rif
15:03:00 [johnhall]
zakim,mute me
15:03:01 [Zakim]
johnhall should now be muted
15:03:11 [ChrisW]
minutes of last meeting: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rif-wg/2006May/att-0013/2006-05-02-rif-minutes.html
15:03:18 [StanDevitt]
AGENDA item 1
15:03:21 [GiorgosStoilos]
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15:03:22 [Francois]
Francois has joined #rif
15:03:29 [Deborah_Nichols]
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15:03:39 [StanDevitt]
Minutes accepted - no objections.
15:03:39 [Zakim]
+Deborah_Nichols
15:03:57 [StanDevitt]
No additions to the Agenda
15:04:09 [PaulaP]
no news
15:04:24 [StanDevitt]
ITEM: Update on FacetoFace in Montenegro
15:04:34 [sandro]
zakim, unmute PaulaP
15:04:44 [Zakim]
PaulaP should no longer be muted
15:04:59 [StanDevitt]
Discussion: Hotel confirmation problems.
15:05:12 [Zakim]
+[IVML]
15:05:14 [Zakim]
+??P9
15:05:18 [Zakim]
+Jeff_Pan
15:05:19 [StanDevitt]
Paula thinks they are just a bit slow.
15:05:20 [DavidHirtle]
This happened to me also, but I got in touch with them today by phone
15:05:24 [GiorgosStoilos]
zakim, [IVML] is me
15:05:30 [Zakim]
+GiorgosStoilos; got it
15:05:34 [Francois]
/me zakim, ??P9 is me.
15:05:39 [Zakim]
-Leora_Morgenstern
15:05:47 [StanDevitt]
Local organizers know about it.
15:06:05 [JosDeRoo]
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15:06:10 [Francois]
zakim, ??P9 is me.
15:06:10 [Zakim]
+Francois; got it
15:06:18 [StanDevitt]
ACTION: All attendees check their reservations
15:06:34 [Zakim]
+Leora_Morgenstern
15:06:43 [LeoraMorgenstern]
zakim, mute me
15:06:43 [Zakim]
Leora_Morgenstern should now be muted
15:06:46 [Francois]
zakim, mute me.
15:06:46 [Zakim]
Francois should now be muted
15:07:14 [Zakim]
+Jos_De_Roo
15:07:21 [StanDevitt]
NOTE: update on colocation with IWC - no update at this time.
15:07:27 [sandro]
zakim, who is talking?
15:07:38 [Zakim]
sandro, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: [IBM] (56%), StanDevitt (72%)
15:07:52 [StanDevitt]
ITEM: Liason activities
15:08:07 [StanDevitt]
NOTE: SPARQL has a new chair
15:08:23 [GaryHallmark]
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15:08:27 [StanDevitt]
SPARQL is in ? last review?
15:08:56 [Zakim]
+Gary_Hallmark
15:08:56 [sandro]
:-( :-( (Jos de Roo having less time to spend on W3C and open-source work)
15:09:25 [StanDevitt]
Jos Deroo: cannot attend SPARQL .
15:09:56 [StanDevitt]
Searching for representative to coordinate with SPARQL.
15:09:59 [sandro]
Sandro: I believe DAWG uses UTC because of some Australians who are no longer in the group.
15:10:18 [StanDevitt]
ACTION: Jos DeRoo will identify someone.
15:10:29 [ChrisW]
zakim, who is here?
15:10:29 [Zakim]
On the phone I see StanDevitt (muted), Hassan_Ait-Kaci (muted), [IBM], Philippe_Bonnard (muted), MarkusK (muted), Allen_Ginsberg (muted), Dave_Reynolds (muted), IanH (muted),
15:10:30 [StanDevitt]
No reps for XQUERY
15:10:32 [Zakim]
... Evan_Wallace, David_Hirtle, Axel_Polleres (muted), pfps, PaulaP (muted), Sandro, johnhall (muted), Deborah_Nichols (muted), GiorgosStoilos, Francois (muted), Jeff_Pan,
15:10:36 [Zakim]
... Leora_Morgenstern (muted), Jos_De_Roo, Gary_Hallmark
15:10:39 [Zakim]
[IBM] has ChrisW, Stella_Mitchell
15:10:40 [Zakim]
On IRC I see GaryHallmark, JosDeRoo, Deborah_Nichols, Francois, GiorgosStoilos, JeffP, pfps, LeoraMorgenstern, johnhall, PaulaP, IanH, AxelPolleres, Allen, DaveReynolds, PhilippeB,
15:10:42 [Zakim]
... DavidHirtle, EvanWallace, MarkusK, Hassan, StanDevitt, ChrisW, RRSAgent, Zakim, sandro, Keeper
15:10:44 [Hassan]
Who is scribing today?
15:11:02 [sandro]
Hassan, StanDevitt is scribing.
15:11:04 [StanDevitt]
no reps present for other SCVR
15:11:11 [sandro]
s/SCVR/SBVR/
15:11:20 [StanDevitt]
no news from ODM
15:11:27 [StanDevitt]
who is speaking?
15:11:45 [johnhall]
SBVR - still on schedule, issues close in July
15:11:56 [LeoraMorgenstern]
Yes,
15:12:00 [StanDevitt]
ITEM 4: Use cases and Requirements.
15:12:03 [LeoraMorgenstern]
I emailed two things
15:12:07 [LeoraMorgenstern]
just a few minutes ago
15:12:11 [LeoraMorgenstern]
I have laryngitis
15:12:15 [LeoraMorgenstern]
so it's hard for me to speak
15:12:19 [LeoraMorgenstern]
Is it okay for me to type?
15:12:23 [sandro]
typing is good
15:12:36 [LeoraMorgenstern]
Right --- the only thing is that I have put them in text
15:12:36 [StanDevitt]
LEORA has completed her two ACTIONS.
15:12:43 [LeoraMorgenstern]
and not as wikis
15:12:54 [LeoraMorgenstern]
So, my question is .... should I put them as wikis as well?
15:12:55 [JosDeRoo]
ChrisW: Re DAWG: The formal overlap is: Enrico Franconi, Dan Connolly, Sergio Tessaris, Jos De Roo, Sven Groppe, and Bijan Parsia.
15:13:18 [LeoraMorgenstern]
Sandro, do I need to have these as wikis?
15:13:24 [LeoraMorgenstern]
or is email good enough?
15:13:43 [sandro]
I think e-mail is good enough for now. If we need them in the wiki, anyone can put them there.
15:13:48 [StanDevitt]
ACTIONS 9 10 and 12 still open. The rest are closed.
15:14:16 [StanDevitt]
Action on Frank is still active from Friday.
15:14:23 [ChrisW]
http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wg/wiki/Goals%2C_Critical_Success_Factors_and_Requirements
15:14:44 [StanDevitt]
ITEM: Frank's version of document
15:14:52 [GiorgosStoilos]
GiorgosStoilos has joined #rif
15:15:06 [StanDevitt]
Question: small group has a conscensus on these goals. What does the larger group think?
15:15:28 [StanDevitt]
This is an informal poll.
15:15:45 [StanDevitt]
who is speaking?
15:15:51 [sandro]
me, StanDevitt
15:16:05 [StanDevitt]
Request for a discussion for why these three goals are important from Sandro.
15:16:15 [StanDevitt]
Discussion led by Sandro:
15:16:26 [StanDevitt]
Why important - there is a trade off.
15:16:30 [Elisa]
Elisa has joined #rif
15:16:36 [StanDevitt]
What makes interchange easy versus wide deployment.
15:16:49 [StanDevitt]
Common problem in W3C specs development.
15:17:12 [StanDevitt]
By making these 3 top level the trade-offs are more obvious.
15:17:19 [ChrisW]
q?
15:17:25 [DaveReynolds]
q+
15:17:28 [DaveReynolds]
ack me
15:17:29 [DavidHirtle]
I think they look good.
15:18:15 [StanDevitt]
David Reynolds: too passive a way of phrasing it. Should be more a goal of enabling semantic web ...
15:18:45 [StanDevitt]
Sandro: thinks this is a 4th goal. There may be more.
15:18:59 [StanDevitt]
There is no conscencus on a 4th goal yet .
15:19:25 [sandro]
Goal: 1: Rule Interchange, 2: Widespead Adoption, 3: Consistency with W3C Specs,
15:19:41 [sandro]
Possible Goal 4: Consistency with W3C / Semantic Web Vision ?
15:19:52 [StanDevitt]
Dave not opposed to finding a 4th goal out of this.
15:20:17 [StanDevitt]
ITem: first goal
15:20:26 [StanDevitt]
any objections ? NONE
15:20:41 [StanDevitt]
second goal: any comments - objections?
15:20:44 [StanDevitt]
none
15:20:51 [StanDevitt]
objections as a goal?
15:20:51 [IanH]
zakim, unmute me
15:20:51 [Zakim]
IanH should no longer be muted
15:21:28 [StanDevitt]
comment: seems like a different sort of goal - higher level
15:21:45 [StanDevitt]
Isn't this goal common to all W3C work?
15:22:32 [StanDevitt]
answer: Sandro? similar to the first goals in that they are sort of obvious but needs stating.
15:22:53 [DaveReynolds]
q+
15:23:01 [StanDevitt]
criteria is that if you ignore it - you fail
15:23:06 [johnhall]
zakim, unmute me
15:23:06 [Zakim]
johnhall should no longer be muted
15:23:14 [johnhall]
q+
15:23:24 [StanDevitt]
Peter talking:
15:23:47 [StanDevitt]
If wide scale adoption is a goal shouldnt the actions be publicity.
15:24:19 [StanDevitt]
comment: action yet to be decided
15:24:28 [StanDevitt]
comment: not the only goal.
15:25:17 [StanDevitt]
Peter: question - what is activity of the group - as determined by goals so He is concerned if the goal leads to the wrong activity.
15:25:21 [Allen]
q+
15:25:46 [Allen]
How about "widescale adoptabilITY"
15:25:52 [Hassan]
Isn't Wide Scale Adoption a CSF rather than a goal?
15:26:10 [StanDevitt]
arising out of discussion: rephrase design something that can be adopted widely.
15:26:36 [Hassan]
q+
15:26:46 [StanDevitt]
risk: Working group will not be finished till we achieve wide adoption.
15:26:54 [DaveReynolds]
ack me
15:27:06 [StanDevitt]
Requirement must be met. Goals need not.
15:27:28 [StanDevitt]
A goal is not measurable? Requirements are.
15:28:27 [StanDevitt]
There is a distinction where you want to be and what you need to do to get there.
15:28:41 [StanDevitt]
Allan:
15:28:45 [sandro]
ack Allen
15:28:46 [Allen]
zakim , unmute me
15:28:46 [johnhall]
zakim, mute me
15:28:49 [Zakim]
johnhall should now be muted
15:28:59 [johnhall]
q-
15:29:42 [StanDevitt]
Changing it to something that indicates the intention of building something that can serve the role of widescale adoption is preferred.
15:29:56 [sandro]
"Design for Widespread Adoption" ?
15:30:11 [sandro]
q+ To argue that we need to do more than design for W.A.
15:30:27 [StanDevitt]
Agrees with Peter's point that there is a difference.
15:30:31 [sandro]
q?
15:31:08 [sandro]
Allen, are you arguing for the goal being " Design for Widespread Adoption " ?
15:31:13 [ChrisW]
ack hassan
15:31:16 [StanDevitt]
He is generally in favour of trying to get to wide scale adoption.
15:31:26 [Allen]
Sandro, that sounds better
15:31:49 [Allen]
q-
15:31:54 [StanDevitt]
A success factor is not a goal.
15:32:37 [StanDevitt]
examples of goals - simplicity ... etc.
15:33:03 [StanDevitt]
sandro: thinks the terminolgy is being used differently by the two individuals ?who?
15:33:20 [DaveReynolds]
+1 to Sandro, in this methodology this is a goal
15:33:21 [ChrisW]
ack sandro
15:33:21 [Zakim]
sandro, you wanted to argue that we need to do more than design for W.A.
15:33:47 [StanDevitt]
why the goal needs to be wide spread adoption is because there will be activities outside of the design that will be important and should be included.
15:33:54 [Hassan]
q-
15:34:05 [StanDevitt]
may be activities by our companies.
15:34:23 [StanDevitt]
all would feel a sense of failure if it is not wide spread.
15:34:54 [EvanWallace]
2 individuals: Frank McCabe and Hassan
15:35:05 [StanDevitt]
Does the rewording as "design for" work for everyone?
15:35:18 [StanDevitt]
Peter = yes
15:35:34 [StanDevitt]
Hassan = yes
15:35:55 [StanDevitt]
s/work for/ work better for/
15:36:09 [PaulaP]
I can do that
15:36:31 [johnhall]
I like it as it is. If we don't achieve wide-scale adoption, we will in the broader sense have failed
15:36:33 [StanDevitt]
who?
15:36:41 [sandro]
(design for) widespread adoption
15:36:48 [StanDevitt]
Sandro:
15:37:08 [ChrisW]
q?
15:37:18 [StanDevitt]
Samdro not happy with rewording ...
15:37:36 [StanDevitt]
ITEM: Second goal
15:37:41 [sandro]
semi-resolved: " (design for) widespread adoption " ?
15:37:44 [StanDevitt]
request for comments - no response.
15:38:07 [StanDevitt]
NEW DISCUSSION:
15:38:14 [StanDevitt]
Critical Success factor?
15:38:38 [StanDevitt]
Exchange of rules: coverage
15:38:49 [sandro]
looking at http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wg/wiki/Goals%2C_Critical_Success_Factors_and_Requirements
15:38:56 [StanDevitt]
?? what was the second factor?
15:39:08 [StanDevitt]
factor: soundess
15:39:18 [PaulaP]
q+
15:39:23 [Allen]
q+
15:39:30 [ChrisW]
ack paula
15:39:52 [StanDevitt]
Coverage is okay in general, but needs flushing out.
15:40:13 [StanDevitt]
Second one needs a better title - too much of a technical meaning.
15:40:17 [IanH]
q+
15:40:41 [StanDevitt]
observes that Frank had commented that we need to be careful to avoid confusion.
15:41:16 [Allen]
zakim, unmute me
15:41:16 [Zakim]
Allen_Ginsberg was not muted, Allen
15:41:19 [StanDevitt]
Chris - mentions goal of semantic aware exchange in this sense too.
15:41:35 [Zakim]
+Elisa_Kendall
15:41:49 [AxelPolleres]
q+
15:42:05 [Elisa]
zakim, mute me
15:42:05 [Zakim]
Elisa_Kendall should now be muted
15:42:08 [StanDevitt]
Allen is not happy with the wording of Soundness. Suggests something like Meaning preserving.
15:42:40 [Hassan]
I prefer "Meaning Preserving" as well (like Allen mentioned) rather than "Soundness"
15:42:49 [ChrisW]
q?
15:42:52 [ChrisW]
ack allen
15:42:58 [StanDevitt]
Discussion about a new action to help with wording .
15:43:17 [StanDevitt]
preference to finish an action first ...
15:44:08 [StanDevitt]
Allen comments that there is still a lot of disussion and is a broad topic. Does it still mean what it did when Sandro proposed the term?
15:44:29 [DaveReynolds]
q+
15:44:38 [StanDevitt]
There is a lot here that are all points under discussion.
15:45:06 [StanDevitt]
Dave feels these are not the critical factors but not sure yet what they are.
15:45:17 [sandro]
s/Dave/Sandro
15:45:18 [ChrisW]
ack ian
15:45:26 [Allen]
q-
15:45:31 [StanDevitt]
Ian: need to understand the problem before saying it solved.
15:45:54 [StanDevitt]
Axel: Extensibility is not in this list? Why?
15:45:55 [Hassan]
+1 on extensibility (indeed)
15:46:02 [StanDevitt]
Is it coverage? probably not.
15:46:07 [DaveReynolds]
ack me
15:46:20 [sandro]
ChrisW -- does it make a lot of sense to have this discussion without Frank?
15:46:26 [ChrisW]
q?
15:46:29 [StanDevitt]
comment: extensibility is somewhere in Paula's document - but a good point.
15:47:05 [StanDevitt]
(by ChrisW)
15:47:13 [StanDevitt]
ITEM 5: Technical Design
15:47:30 [ChrisW]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rif-wg/2006Apr/0068.html
15:47:49 [Allen]
zakim, mute me
15:47:49 [Zakim]
Allen_Ginsberg should now be muted
15:47:52 [StanDevitt]
introduction : a lot of discussion on email
15:48:42 [ChrisW]
q?
15:48:44 [StanDevitt]
Chris is not clear where people stand on this as a syntax for condition rules?
15:48:49 [AxelPolleres]
q-
15:48:53 [pfps]
q+
15:49:21 [ChrisW]
zakim, who is on the phone?
15:49:21 [Zakim]
On the phone I see StanDevitt (muted), Hassan_Ait-Kaci (muted), [IBM], Philippe_Bonnard (muted), MarkusK (muted), Allen_Ginsberg (muted), Dave_Reynolds, IanH (muted), Evan_Wallace,
15:49:25 [Zakim]
... David_Hirtle, Axel_Polleres (muted), pfps, PaulaP (muted), Sandro, johnhall (muted), Deborah_Nichols (muted), GiorgosStoilos, Francois (muted), Jeff_Pan, Leora_Morgenstern
15:49:27 [Zakim]
... (muted), Jos_De_Roo (muted), Gary_Hallmark, Elisa_Kendall (muted)
15:49:28 [Zakim]
[IBM] has ChrisW, Stella_Mitchell
15:49:31 [StanDevitt]
Peter: What is the syntax? Is it more than syntax of functional style first order logic?
15:50:10 [StanDevitt]
If not, why is it causing a problem?
15:50:30 [DavidHirtle]
(not many are here)
15:50:36 [StanDevitt]
comments from authors?
15:50:57 [AxelPolleres]
Alex is.
15:51:34 [StanDevitt]
note: authors are not well represented on the call.
15:51:41 [Hassan]
Jeff Giorgos and Alex are listed as present
15:51:56 [GiorgosStoilos]
GiorgosStamou was an author
15:52:45 [Hassan]
I already wrote my position ...
15:53:05 [Hassan]
q+
15:53:11 [pfps]
q-
15:53:35 [sandro]
maybe you should speak it, Hassan.....
15:53:58 [sandro]
Sandro: I wont be able to evaluate this proposal without trying to implement it
15:54:11 [sandro]
Hassan: what's interesting is that it relies on RIFRAF
15:54:35 [ChrisW]
q?
15:54:40 [ChrisW]
ack hassan
15:54:43 [StanDevitt]
StanDevitt has joined #rif
15:55:27 [StanDevitt]
comments: we need to work on the language structure to capture the structure
15:56:03 [StanDevitt]
the technology of getting to a linear syntax is standard technology.
15:56:08 [AxelPolleres]
-1 on OWL sufficient to describe conditions, but not sure whether I understand this question right?!?
15:56:18 [Francois]
Sorry, I must leave now... See/hear you later...
15:56:24 [StanDevitt]
Is owl sufficient?
15:56:24 [sandro]
Ciao, Francois.
15:56:53 [Zakim]
-Francois
15:56:57 [StanDevitt]
ChrisW: suggests leaving this discussion till the authors are present.
15:57:03 [sandro]
AxelPolleres, I wasn't suggesting OWL for describing conditions -- but for describing RIFRAF.
15:57:12 [Hassan]
q-
15:57:14 [StanDevitt]
proposes to go back to the success factors.
15:57:29 [AxelPolleres]
thnx for clarification.
15:57:38 [AxelPolleres]
+1
15:57:44 [StanDevitt]
There are still to success factors to discuss.
15:57:46 [PaulaP]
q+
15:57:58 [StanDevitt]
s/to/two/
15:58:04 [Hassan]
+1 on waiting for the authors, but we need to bite the bullet of RIFRAF at one point!
15:59:04 [Hassan]
q+
15:59:54 [sandro]
q?
15:59:54 [ChrisW]
q?
15:59:54 [StanDevitt]
ChrisW wants suggestions for actions to prepare for next week.
16:00:00 [sandro]
ack PaulaP
16:00:04 [ChrisW]
ack paula
16:00:06 [sandro]
q+ PaulaP
16:00:07 [ChrisW]
ack hassan
16:00:19 [pfps]
Is there a pointer to RIFRAF?
16:00:55 [ChrisW]
RIFRAF: http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wg/wiki/Rulesystem_Arrangement_Framework
16:00:59 [sandro]
current status of rifraf: http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wg/wiki/Rulesystem_Arrangement_Framework
16:01:03 [sandro]
jynx!
16:01:07 [StanDevitt]
hassan suggests action: take a ILOG and LIGHT and looking at RIFRAF and trying to see how they match.
16:01:33 [sandro]
s/LIGHT/LIFE
16:01:35 [StanDevitt]
Everyone should try out the concept in the language they have in mind.
16:01:58 [ChrisW]
q?
16:02:38 [sandro]
zakim, pick a victim
16:02:38 [Zakim]
Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose StanDevitt (muted)
16:02:43 [sandro]
zakim, pick a victim
16:02:43 [Zakim]
Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose Axel_Polleres (muted)
16:02:45 [sandro]
zakim, pick a victim
16:02:45 [Zakim]
Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose Axel_Polleres (muted)
16:02:47 [sandro]
zakim, pick a victim
16:02:48 [Zakim]
Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose PaulaP
16:02:55 [sandro]
zakim, who is on the phone?
16:02:55 [Zakim]
On the phone I see StanDevitt (muted), Hassan_Ait-Kaci, [IBM], Philippe_Bonnard (muted), MarkusK (muted), Allen_Ginsberg (muted), Dave_Reynolds, IanH (muted), Evan_Wallace,
16:02:58 [Zakim]
... David_Hirtle, Axel_Polleres (muted), pfps, PaulaP, Sandro, johnhall (muted), Deborah_Nichols (muted), GiorgosStoilos, Jeff_Pan, Leora_Morgenstern (muted), Jos_De_Roo (muted),
16:03:01 [Zakim]
... Gary_Hallmark, Elisa_Kendall (muted)
16:03:02 [Zakim]
[IBM] has ChrisW, Stella_Mitchell
16:03:14 [StanDevitt]
ACTION: Hassan will finish this comparison exercise
16:03:37 [sandro]
ACTON: Hassan analyse how RIFRAF applies to J-Rules
16:04:03 [sandro]
ACTION: Hassan analyse how RIFRAF applies to J-Rules, to help us evaluate RIFRAF.
16:04:31 [StanDevitt]
keep in mind - can I represent my constructs using this proposal?
16:04:48 [StanDevitt]
We want more people and more languages to do this review?
16:05:09 [PaulaP]
Xcerpt and XChange
16:05:24 [sandro]
ACTION: Paula to try to apply RIFRAF to Xcerpt and XChange
16:05:31 [sandro]
ack pfps
16:05:43 [PaulaP]
q-
16:06:10 [StanDevitt]
Search for someone to do this for SWRL?
16:06:33 [sandro]
Chris: The exercise is to see if the RIFRAF represents all the properties of rulesystems that people in this WG care about.
16:06:51 [sandro]
Peter: why would anyone want to do this?
16:06:51 [StanDevitt]
Doubt expressed about why one would do it for this particular language?
16:07:05 [sandro]
Chris offers a beer
16:07:37 [AxelPolleres]
Probably the authors can exemplify by FLORA-2, WSML, SWSL-Rules, etc. I myself could do something on the DLV language, which is essentially datalog with various useful extensions such as aggregates, external predicates, etc. if this would be of interest.
16:07:48 [sandro]
Chris: I would be good to know if RIFRAF is adequate to the task of figuring out if RIF will cover rule languages.
16:08:04 [AxelPolleres]
I mean the authors of the Exensible design doc.
16:08:17 [StanDevitt]
who?
16:08:24 [sandro]
ACTION: Peter, apply RIFRAF to SWRL
16:08:32 [Hassan]
What about a beer for me??? :-)
16:08:44 [sandro]
Chris: Beer for Hassan, too.
16:09:02 [sandro]
ack AxelPolleres
16:09:02 [AxelPolleres]
ack
16:09:03 [StanDevitt]
Other volunteers?
16:09:47 [StanDevitt]
Axel comments that the authors will probably be doing this against the languages they represent.
16:09:55 [sandro]
ACTION: Axel, apply RIFRAF to DLV
16:09:57 [StanDevitt]
Still needs to check.
16:10:19 [StanDevitt]
Other volunteers?
16:10:21 [sandro]
http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wg/wiki/DLV
16:10:29 [AxelPolleres]
Zakim, mute me
16:10:29 [Zakim]
Axel_Polleres should now be muted
16:10:45 [PaulaP]
q+
16:10:47 [sandro]
+1 end early
16:10:50 [StanDevitt]
ChrisW: return to CSF or end early?
16:11:26 [StanDevitt]
Paula: leave it for next call as we need to merge documents, and incorporate discussions?
16:11:26 [sandro]
Paula: let's wait, since Frank and I have work to do on the CSF document first.
16:11:30 [StanDevitt]
Other business?
16:11:37 [sandro]
+1 adjourn
16:11:38 [StanDevitt]
none
16:11:46 [Zakim]
-Gary_Hallmark
16:11:47 [StanDevitt]
Adjourn
16:11:47 [Allen]
bye
16:11:47 [Zakim]
-GiorgosStoilos
16:11:49 [Zakim]
-pfps
16:11:50 [Zakim]
-Hassan_Ait-Kaci
16:11:52 [Zakim]
-Evan_Wallace
16:11:53 [Zakim]
-MarkusK
16:11:55 [Zakim]
-Deborah_Nichols
16:11:57 [Zakim]
-IanH
16:11:58 [Zakim]
-Dave_Reynolds
16:11:59 [Zakim]
-Leora_Morgenstern
16:12:00 [Zakim]
-Jeff_Pan
16:12:01 [Zakim]
-Philippe_Bonnard
16:12:03 [Zakim]
-David_Hirtle
16:12:04 [Zakim]
-Elisa_Kendall
16:12:05 [Zakim]
-Jos_De_Roo
16:12:07 [Zakim]
-Allen_Ginsberg
16:12:09 [Zakim]
-Axel_Polleres
16:12:11 [Zakim]
-PaulaP
16:12:13 [Zakim]
-johnhall
16:12:13 [ChrisW]
rrsagent, make minutes
16:12:13 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2006/05/09-rif-minutes.html ChrisW
16:12:20 [PaulaP]
PaulaP has left #rif
16:14:30 [Zakim]
-StanDevitt
16:18:29 [Zakim]
-[IBM]
16:18:30 [Zakim]
-Sandro
16:18:32 [Zakim]
SW_RIF()11:00AM has ended
16:18:33 [Zakim]
Attendees were StanDevitt, Hassan_Ait-Kaci, Philippe_Bonnard, MarkusK, ChrisW, Stella_Mitchell, Allen_Ginsberg, Dave_Reynolds, Evan_Wallace, IanH, David_Hirtle, Axel_Polleres,
16:18:38 [Zakim]
... Leora_Morgenstern, PaulaP, pfps, Sandro, johnhall, Deborah_Nichols, Jeff_Pan, GiorgosStoilos, Francois, Jos_De_Roo, Gary_Hallmark, Elisa_Kendall