17:02:12 RRSAgent has joined #tagmem 17:02:12 logging to http://www.w3.org/2006/04/25-tagmem-irc 17:02:19 +Noah_Mendelsohn 17:02:38 Agenda: http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/2006/04/25-agenda.html 17:02:40 Scribe: DanC 17:02:46 Chair: Vincent 17:03:00 zakim, who is here? 17:03:00 On the phone I see Norm, DanC, Vincent, Ht, Noah_Mendelsohn 17:03:01 On IRC I see RRSAgent, Vincent, Zakim, noah, Norm, ht, DanC 17:03:11 agenda + Administrative 17:03:16 agenda + Issue xmlFunctions-34 17:03:23 agenda + issue namespaceState-48 17:03:29 agenda + State Finding 17:03:43 Regrets: Ed 17:04:10 noah_lunch has joined #tagmem 17:04:43 zakim, noah_mend is noah 17:04:43 +noah; got it 17:04:53 +DOrchard 17:05:09 timbl has joined #tagmem 17:05:25 +TimBL 17:05:30 Zakim, take up item 1 17:05:30 agendum 1. "Administrative" taken up [from DanC] 17:05:41 Zakim, list attendees 17:05:41 As of this point the attendees have been Norm, DanC, Ht, Vincent, Noah_Mendelsohn, noah, DOrchard, TimBL 17:06:07 -> http://www.w3.org/2006/04/18-tagmem-minutes.html minutes 18 Apr 17:06:35 PROPOSED: to meet 2 May, NDW to scribe. at risk: DO 17:07:16 RESOLVED: to meet 2 May, NDW to scribe. regrets DO 17:08:05 VQ observes "DRAFT" at top and diagnostics at the bottom 17:08:15 RESOLVED to approve minutes 18 Apr 17:08:30 brb 17:10:12 VQ: agenda adjustments? 17:10:17 DC: June ftf... at the end? 17:10:27 VQ: after Vancouver ftf discussion 17:10:36 Oct 4 and 5 is OK for me in Vancouver 17:10:50 PROPOSED: to meet in Vancouver 4-5 Oct 2006 17:11:11 hi 17:12:15 DO: price update: opus hotel looks like 229 CAD, around USD 200. looks like I can get a meeting room in that hotel 17:12:39 VQ: can you send me details? DO: yes, I've got all the hosting details on a page that I'll send presently 17:13:19 RESOLVED: to meet in Vancouver Wed/Thu 4-5 Oct 2006 17:14:01 TBL: so that's 2 days...? VQ: yes, 2 days. 17:15:44 DanC: hmm... security workshop follow-up... perhaps invite some security experts from the BOS/MIT area? 17:15:54 NDW: I can accomodate a few 17:17:56 NM: an expert from MIT with practical experience sounds interesting 17:19:10 VQ: more on this later in the call, perhaps... 17:19:58 VQ: the preparation for the AC meeting seems to have converged, after some punctuated discussion 17:20:21 ... moderator and panelists seem to be pretty much all set 17:22:29 VQ: one more admin item... quarterly update... I'll draft something, tomorrow, I hope... 17:22:52 ... then I'll send it out after a couple days of collecting comments from tag 17:23:10 Zakim, next item 17:23:10 agendum 2. "Issue xmlFunctions-34" taken up [from DanC] 17:23:32 VQ: hmm... this agendum was requested by TV... 17:23:51 ACTION: TVR, accepted on 27 Feb 2006: summarize history of DTD/namespace/mimetype version practice, including XHTML, SOAP, and XSLT [CONTINUES] 17:24:15 . ACTION TBL, accepted on 27 Feb 2006: write a short email to make his point so we capture this for future 17:25:51 ACTION TBL, accepted on 27 Feb 2006: write a short email to make his point so we capture this for future [WITHDRAWN] 17:26:11 ACTION: TBL, accepted on 27 Feb 2006: write a short email to make his point so we capture this for future [WITHDRAWN] 17:26:29 http://www.w3.org/2006/02/27-tagmem-minutes.html 17:27:34 http://www.w3.org/2006/02/27-tagmem-minutes.html#action02 17:28:40 ACTION: TBL, accepted on 27 Feb 2006: write a short email to make his point so we capture this for future [CONTINUES] 17:29:04 point being: that extensibility with a framework such as CDF makes sense, but extensibility in general does not. [?] 17:29:05 s/it/XML extensbility: Possible only with a framework providing some form of semantics 17:29:51 Zakim, next item 17:29:51 agendum 3. "issue namespaceState-48" taken up [from DanC] 17:30:55 http://www.w3.org/1999/10/nsuri is in an odd state 17:31:03 -> http://www.w3.org/2005/07/13-nsuri URIs for W3C Namespaces 1.36 2006/01/20 17:31:12 it says "A new version of this document is available. " 17:38:32 TBL: one comment was that "Namespace Changes over Time" doesn't make sense 17:39:16 http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/doc/namespaceState.html 17:39:27 From the finding: "Colloquially, we often speak of “adding a name” to a namespace. Here we prefer to speak of “defining a name” or otherwise licensing the interpretation of a name." 17:39:33 Precisely. 17:41:01 NM: section 4 could cite the finding more locally 17:41:51 ... section 4 i.e. http://www.w3.org/2005/07/13-nsuri#Policy 17:45:12 Suggestion (rough not exact): a) leave title of section 4 b) In that section, say something like "The TAG finding 'The Disposition of Names in an XML Namespace' explains how the use of a particular namespace may evolve over time. At the W3C, it is important for a group to state clearly its expectations for how namespaces it controls will..." 17:45:29 ...and the continue with the text already in the doc, edited if necessary. 17:46:46 ACTION TBL: accepted on 8 Mar 2005, provide a draft of new namespace policy doc (http://www.w3.org/1999/10/nsuri). in progress. tbl would like to confirm with Ian that there's nothing pending on Ian's side [CONTINUES] 17:48:27 In that section, say something like "The TAG finding 'The Disposition of Names in an XML Namespace' explains how the use of a particular namespace may evolve over time. At the W3C, it is important for a group to state clearly its expectations for how use of the namespaces it controls will..." 17:48:29 zakim, who is making noise? 17:48:40 ht, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: noah (8%), Ht (14%) 17:49:25 Dan if you commit this, you'll need to create a hyperlink for the TAG finding. 17:51:37 Ian has joined #tagmem 17:52:04 Hi Ian 17:52:18 I was pinged on the topic of nsuri... 17:52:33 I heard: 17:52:36 Dan is updating the nsuri document to add a reference to the TAG finding in section 4. 17:52:37 1) TAG ok with http://www.w3.org/2005/07/13-nsuri 17:52:40 2) Add a ref 17:52:42 +1 to adding ref. 17:52:55 The document has already been announced as "en vigeur" to the chairs. 17:52:58 http://www.w3.org/2005/07/13-nsuri#Policy 1.52 17:53:25 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/chairs/2006JanMar/0026.html 17:54:05 Bjoern had expressed some concerns. 17:54:11 Would you like to see them? 17:54:52 Ian, would you like to join the call for a bit? 17:54:55 Ian, wanna dial in? or not bother? 17:55:10 Sure. 17:55:15 zakim, what's the code? 17:55:15 the conference code is 0824 (tel:+1.617.761.6200), Ian 17:55:19 http://www.w3.org/1999/10/nsuri v 1.63 2006/04/25 17:54:40 is obsolete 17:55:33 +Ian 17:56:37 Responding to Dan's request that I hatch yet a bit more text: 17:56:41 The draft currently says: 17:56:42 Groups SHOULD document those expectations in [or clearly linked from] the Namespace Document. 17:57:09 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-archive/2006Feb/0000.html 17:57:31 How about putting after that: "Draft TAG Finding Associating Resources with Namespaces provides additional guidance on the creation of such namespace documents." 17:57:51 -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-archive/2006Feb/0000.html Comments on URIs for W3C Namespaces Bjoern Hoehrmann 01 Feb 2006 17:59:04 "Specifications that define namespaces SHOULD explicitly state their policy with respect to changes in the names defined in that namespace." 18:00:42 HT: not sure about "this specification" indexical in the examples.. 18:02:14 "The definitions of names in this namespace will not change from those given in the June 13 2007 version of the Foonly spec [ref. dated URI]" 18:02:25 q+ 18:02:35 yes, that's an improvement to example 1, HT 18:02:49 ack Ian 18:03:14 ... "Subsequent versions of thte Foonly spec which make any substantive changes will do so in a new namespace" 18:03:33 -Ian 18:04:47 For example, the namespace document could contain text along the following lines. 18:05:37 dorchard has joined #tagmem 18:06:12 1.53 $ of $Date: 2006/04/25 18:05:59 http://www.w3.org/2005/07/13-nsuri 18:08:48 1.54 $ of $Date: 2006/04/25 18:08:34 18:09:54 Ian, 1.54 is it. pls let Bjoern know. 18:10:02 yay! 18:10:03 Merci 18:10:33 Would you think that your changes will satisfy him? 18:10:44 (He'll let us know, certainly) 18:11:00 PROPOSED: that http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/doc/namespaceState.html and http://www.w3.org/2005/07/13-nsuri 1.54 address namespaceState-48 18:11:21 I do hope these changes address his comment 18:11:31 so RESOLVED. 18:11:35 Ok, thank you. 18:12:17 ACTION NDW: announce that the TAG has resolved namespaceState-48 18:12:54 VQ: I'll update our report to the AC to show we've closed another one 18:13:04 Zakim, next item 18:13:04 agendum 4. "State Finding" taken up [from DanC] 18:13:40 -> http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/doc/state-20060419.html draft state finding 18:13:59 DO: Ed did a thorough review; I think I addressed his comments... 18:14:20 ... I reorganized some stuff, moving some stuff before examples so that I could refer to it in discussion of pros/cons 18:14:55 (is this changelog in email somehwere? or do I need to record it?) 18:15:24 -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-tag/2006Apr/0026.html Updated State Finding 19 Apr 2006 18:15:58 DO: I compared/constrasted approaches to getStockQuote a bit... 18:16:49 DO: I have considerable comments from Baker and Nottingham; haven't started addressing those yet 18:18:00 DO: I'd like to talk about this 9 May; I'm not avaiable 16 nor 23 May 18:18:48 NM: I see an opportunity to reduce the text in the early sections quite a bit 18:20:17 DO: yes, I can imagine a shorter "letter" given longer time 18:20:22 ciao... 18:20:31 Ian has left #tagmem 18:20:41 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-archive/2006Apr/att-0014/State.html 18:21:59 TBL: I like abstracts that make the relevant points in one paragraph 18:22:10 (I think that's a high bar; I raraly meet it myself.) 18:22:15 +1 to Tim's comment. 18:24:14 TBL: is this a summary? There are several types of app ... state... client... server... stateful... stateles... 18:24:56 ... cookies is an example of the 1st; @@ is an example of the 2nd; $ZZZ is always bad 18:26:09 -Ht 18:26:22 (I'm not asking for less text, btw. I haven't read it closely enough to judge whether there's a lot of redundancy. I'm asking for the thesis statement(s) to be highlighted) 18:28:24 ACTION NDW: review draft state finding for 9 May 18:28:26 (Dave, a two-level essay: http://www.w3.org/2002/04/Japan/Lecture.html ) 18:28:41 VQ: and I suppose Ed is another reviewer 18:29:15 Topic: Security Workshop follow-up 18:32:34 DanC: (a) community service work on passwords in the clear... 18:34:23 ... (b) specific investigation of decentralized auth ala OpenID/SXIP 18:34:32 DanC: anybody intrested? a few: yes. 18:34:48 ADJOURN. 18:34:51 -Norm 18:34:53 -Vincent 18:34:55 -noah 18:34:57 -DanC 18:38:45 timbl_ has joined #tagmem 18:39:52 -DOrchard 18:44:53 disconnecting the lone participant, TimBL, in TAG_Weekly()12:30PM 18:44:55 TAG_Weekly()12:30PM has ended 18:44:57 Attendees were Norm, DanC, Ht, Vincent, Noah_Mendelsohn, noah, DOrchard, TimBL, Ian 18:46:55 timbl_ has left #tagmem 19:07:27 Ian has joined #tagmem 19:07:33 Hi Norm, DanC, 19:07:37 Does this look ok for Chairs: 19:07:44 Dear Chairs, 19:07:44 Today the TAG reviewed and made some editorial clarifications to 19:07:44 "URIs for W3C Namespaces" [1], which became effective 15 March 19:07:44 2006 [2]. A reference to the TAG finding "Associating Resources 19:07:44 with Namespaces" [3] was also added. I do not believe the changes 19:07:45 will have any impact on the publications process. 19:07:47 I have attached a document that highlights differences from the 19:07:49 version announced on 15 March. 19:07:51 ----- 19:25:59 IanJ has joined #tagmem 20:14:38 Zakim has left #tagmem 20:53:11 RRSAgent, please draft minutes 20:53:11 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2006/04/25-tagmem-minutes.html DanC 20:53:32 RRSAgent, make logs world-access 20:54:14 Meeting: TAG Weekly 20:54:17 RRSAgent, please draft minutes 20:54:17 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2006/04/25-tagmem-minutes.html DanC 20:55:47 action -2 21:20:07 DanC has changed the topic to: TAG meets 2 May; scribe: Norm per http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/2006/04/25-tagmem-minutes