IRC log of tagmem on 2006-04-25
Timestamps are in UTC.
- 17:02:12 [RRSAgent]
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- logging to http://www.w3.org/2006/04/25-tagmem-irc
- 17:02:19 [Zakim]
- +Noah_Mendelsohn
- 17:02:38 [DanC]
- Agenda: http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/2006/04/25-agenda.html
- 17:02:40 [DanC]
- Scribe: DanC
- 17:02:46 [DanC]
- Chair: Vincent
- 17:03:00 [noah]
- zakim, who is here?
- 17:03:00 [Zakim]
- On the phone I see Norm, DanC, Vincent, Ht, Noah_Mendelsohn
- 17:03:01 [Zakim]
- On IRC I see RRSAgent, Vincent, Zakim, noah, Norm, ht, DanC
- 17:03:11 [DanC]
- agenda + Administrative
- 17:03:16 [DanC]
- agenda + Issue xmlFunctions-34
- 17:03:23 [DanC]
- agenda + issue namespaceState-48
- 17:03:29 [DanC]
- agenda + State Finding
- 17:03:43 [DanC]
- Regrets: Ed
- 17:04:10 [noah_lunch]
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- 17:04:43 [ht]
- zakim, noah_mend is noah
- 17:04:43 [Zakim]
- +noah; got it
- 17:04:53 [Zakim]
- +DOrchard
- 17:05:09 [timbl]
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- 17:05:25 [Zakim]
- +TimBL
- 17:05:30 [DanC]
- Zakim, take up item 1
- 17:05:30 [Zakim]
- agendum 1. "Administrative" taken up [from DanC]
- 17:05:41 [DanC]
- Zakim, list attendees
- 17:05:41 [Zakim]
- As of this point the attendees have been Norm, DanC, Ht, Vincent, Noah_Mendelsohn, noah, DOrchard, TimBL
- 17:06:07 [DanC]
- -> http://www.w3.org/2006/04/18-tagmem-minutes.html minutes 18 Apr
- 17:06:35 [DanC]
- PROPOSED: to meet 2 May, NDW to scribe. at risk: DO
- 17:07:16 [DanC]
- RESOLVED: to meet 2 May, NDW to scribe. regrets DO
- 17:08:05 [DanC]
- VQ observes "DRAFT" at top and diagnostics at the bottom
- 17:08:15 [DanC]
- RESOLVED to approve minutes 18 Apr
- 17:08:30 [timbl]
- brb
- 17:10:12 [DanC]
- VQ: agenda adjustments?
- 17:10:17 [DanC]
- DC: June ftf... at the end?
- 17:10:27 [DanC]
- VQ: after Vancouver ftf discussion
- 17:10:36 [noah]
- Oct 4 and 5 is OK for me in Vancouver
- 17:10:50 [DanC]
- PROPOSED: to meet in Vancouver 4-5 Oct 2006
- 17:11:11 [timbl]
- hi
- 17:12:15 [DanC]
- DO: price update: opus hotel looks like 229 CAD, around USD 200. looks like I can get a meeting room in that hotel
- 17:12:39 [DanC]
- VQ: can you send me details? DO: yes, I've got all the hosting details on a page that I'll send presently
- 17:13:19 [DanC]
- RESOLVED: to meet in Vancouver Wed/Thu 4-5 Oct 2006
- 17:14:01 [DanC]
- TBL: so that's 2 days...? VQ: yes, 2 days.
- 17:15:44 [DanC]
- DanC: hmm... security workshop follow-up... perhaps invite some security experts from the BOS/MIT area?
- 17:15:54 [DanC]
- NDW: I can accomodate a few
- 17:17:56 [DanC]
- NM: an expert from MIT with practical experience sounds interesting
- 17:19:10 [DanC]
- VQ: more on this later in the call, perhaps...
- 17:19:58 [DanC]
- VQ: the preparation for the AC meeting seems to have converged, after some punctuated discussion
- 17:20:21 [DanC]
- ... moderator and panelists seem to be pretty much all set
- 17:22:29 [DanC]
- VQ: one more admin item... quarterly update... I'll draft something, tomorrow, I hope...
- 17:22:52 [DanC]
- ... then I'll send it out after a couple days of collecting comments from tag
- 17:23:10 [DanC]
- Zakim, next item
- 17:23:10 [Zakim]
- agendum 2. "Issue xmlFunctions-34" taken up [from DanC]
- 17:23:32 [DanC]
- VQ: hmm... this agendum was requested by TV...
- 17:23:51 [DanC]
- ACTION: TVR, accepted on 27 Feb 2006: summarize history of DTD/namespace/mimetype version practice, including XHTML, SOAP, and XSLT [CONTINUES]
- 17:24:15 [DanC]
- . ACTION TBL, accepted on 27 Feb 2006: write a short email to make his point so we capture this for future
- 17:25:51 [DanC]
- ACTION TBL, accepted on 27 Feb 2006: write a short email to make his point so we capture this for future [WITHDRAWN]
- 17:26:11 [DanC]
- ACTION: TBL, accepted on 27 Feb 2006: write a short email to make his point so we capture this for future [WITHDRAWN]
- 17:26:29 [timbl]
- http://www.w3.org/2006/02/27-tagmem-minutes.html
- 17:27:34 [timbl]
- http://www.w3.org/2006/02/27-tagmem-minutes.html#action02
- 17:28:40 [DanC]
- ACTION: TBL, accepted on 27 Feb 2006: write a short email to make his point so we capture this for future [CONTINUES]
- 17:29:04 [DanC]
- point being: that extensibility with a framework such as CDF makes sense, but extensibility in general does not. [?]
- 17:29:05 [timbl]
- s/it/XML extensbility: Possible only with a framework providing some form of semantics
- 17:29:51 [DanC]
- Zakim, next item
- 17:29:51 [Zakim]
- agendum 3. "issue namespaceState-48" taken up [from DanC]
- 17:30:55 [ht]
- http://www.w3.org/1999/10/nsuri is in an odd state
- 17:31:03 [DanC]
- -> http://www.w3.org/2005/07/13-nsuri URIs for W3C Namespaces 1.36 2006/01/20
- 17:31:12 [ht]
- it says "A new version of this document is available. "
- 17:38:32 [DanC]
- TBL: one comment was that "Namespace Changes over Time" doesn't make sense
- 17:39:16 [ht]
- http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/doc/namespaceState.html
- 17:39:27 [noah]
- From the finding: "Colloquially, we often speak of “adding a name” to a namespace. Here we prefer to speak of “defining a name” or otherwise licensing the interpretation of a name."
- 17:39:33 [Norm]
- Precisely.
- 17:41:01 [DanC]
- NM: section 4 could cite the finding more locally
- 17:41:51 [DanC]
- ... section 4 i.e. http://www.w3.org/2005/07/13-nsuri#Policy
- 17:45:12 [noah]
- Suggestion (rough not exact): a) leave title of section 4 b) In that section, say something like "The TAG finding 'The Disposition of Names in an XML Namespace' explains how the use of a particular namespace may evolve over time. At the W3C, it is important for a group to state clearly its expectations for how namespaces it controls will..."
- 17:45:29 [noah]
- ...and the continue with the text already in the doc, edited if necessary.
- 17:46:46 [DanC]
- ACTION TBL: accepted on 8 Mar 2005, provide a draft of new namespace policy doc (http://www.w3.org/1999/10/nsuri). in progress. tbl would like to confirm with Ian that there's nothing pending on Ian's side [CONTINUES]
- 17:48:27 [noah]
- In that section, say something like "The TAG finding 'The Disposition of Names in an XML Namespace' explains how the use of a particular namespace may evolve over time. At the W3C, it is important for a group to state clearly its expectations for how use of the namespaces it controls will..."
- 17:48:29 [ht]
- zakim, who is making noise?
- 17:48:40 [Zakim]
- ht, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: noah (8%), Ht (14%)
- 17:49:25 [noah]
- Dan if you commit this, you'll need to create a hyperlink for the TAG finding.
- 17:51:37 [Ian]
- Ian has joined #tagmem
- 17:52:04 [Vincent]
- Hi Ian
- 17:52:18 [Ian]
- I was pinged on the topic of nsuri...
- 17:52:33 [Ian]
- I heard:
- 17:52:36 [Vincent]
- Dan is updating the nsuri document to add a reference to the TAG finding in section 4.
- 17:52:37 [Ian]
- 1) TAG ok with http://www.w3.org/2005/07/13-nsuri
- 17:52:40 [Ian]
- 2) Add a ref
- 17:52:42 [Ian]
- +1 to adding ref.
- 17:52:55 [Ian]
- The document has already been announced as "en vigeur" to the chairs.
- 17:52:58 [DanC]
- http://www.w3.org/2005/07/13-nsuri#Policy 1.52
- 17:53:25 [Ian]
- http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/chairs/2006JanMar/0026.html
- 17:54:05 [Ian]
- Bjoern had expressed some concerns.
- 17:54:11 [Ian]
- Would you like to see them?
- 17:54:52 [timbl]
- Ian, would you like to join the call for a bit?
- 17:54:55 [DanC]
- Ian, wanna dial in? or not bother?
- 17:55:10 [Ian]
- Sure.
- 17:55:15 [Ian]
- zakim, what's the code?
- 17:55:15 [Zakim]
- the conference code is 0824 (tel:+1.617.761.6200), Ian
- 17:55:19 [DanC]
- http://www.w3.org/1999/10/nsuri v 1.63 2006/04/25 17:54:40 is obsolete
- 17:55:33 [Zakim]
- +Ian
- 17:56:37 [noah]
- Responding to Dan's request that I hatch yet a bit more text:
- 17:56:41 [noah]
- The draft currently says:
- 17:56:42 [noah]
- Groups SHOULD document those expectations in [or clearly linked from] the Namespace Document.
- 17:57:09 [Ian]
- http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-archive/2006Feb/0000.html
- 17:57:31 [noah]
- How about putting after that: "Draft TAG Finding Associating Resources with Namespaces provides additional guidance on the creation of such namespace documents."
- 17:57:51 [DanC]
- -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-archive/2006Feb/0000.html Comments on URIs for W3C Namespaces Bjoern Hoehrmann 01 Feb 2006
- 17:59:04 [DanC]
- "Specifications that define namespaces SHOULD explicitly state their policy with respect to changes in the names defined in that namespace."
- 18:00:42 [DanC]
- HT: not sure about "this specification" indexical in the examples..
- 18:02:14 [ht]
- "The definitions of names in this namespace will not change from those given in the June 13 2007 version of the Foonly spec [ref. dated URI]"
- 18:02:25 [Ian]
- q+
- 18:02:35 [DanC]
- yes, that's an improvement to example 1, HT
- 18:02:49 [Vincent]
- ack Ian
- 18:03:14 [ht]
- ... "Subsequent versions of thte Foonly spec which make any substantive changes will do so in a new namespace"
- 18:03:33 [Zakim]
- -Ian
- 18:04:47 [timbl]
- For example, the namespace document could contain text along the following lines.
- 18:05:37 [dorchard]
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- 18:06:12 [DanC]
- 1.53 $ of $Date: 2006/04/25 18:05:59 http://www.w3.org/2005/07/13-nsuri
- 18:08:48 [DanC]
- 1.54 $ of $Date: 2006/04/25 18:08:34
- 18:09:54 [DanC]
- Ian, 1.54 is it. pls let Bjoern know.
- 18:10:02 [Ian]
- yay!
- 18:10:03 [Ian]
- Merci
- 18:10:33 [Ian]
- Would you think that your changes will satisfy him?
- 18:10:44 [Ian]
- (He'll let us know, certainly)
- 18:11:00 [DanC]
- PROPOSED: that http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/doc/namespaceState.html and http://www.w3.org/2005/07/13-nsuri 1.54 address namespaceState-48
- 18:11:21 [DanC]
- I do hope these changes address his comment
- 18:11:31 [DanC]
- so RESOLVED.
- 18:11:35 [Ian]
- Ok, thank you.
- 18:12:17 [DanC]
- ACTION NDW: announce that the TAG has resolved namespaceState-48
- 18:12:54 [DanC]
- VQ: I'll update our report to the AC to show we've closed another one
- 18:13:04 [DanC]
- Zakim, next item
- 18:13:04 [Zakim]
- agendum 4. "State Finding" taken up [from DanC]
- 18:13:40 [DanC]
- -> http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/doc/state-20060419.html draft state finding
- 18:13:59 [DanC]
- DO: Ed did a thorough review; I think I addressed his comments...
- 18:14:20 [DanC]
- ... I reorganized some stuff, moving some stuff before examples so that I could refer to it in discussion of pros/cons
- 18:14:55 [DanC]
- (is this changelog in email somehwere? or do I need to record it?)
- 18:15:24 [DanC]
- -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-tag/2006Apr/0026.html Updated State Finding 19 Apr 2006
- 18:15:58 [DanC]
- DO: I compared/constrasted approaches to getStockQuote a bit...
- 18:16:49 [DanC]
- DO: I have considerable comments from Baker and Nottingham; haven't started addressing those yet
- 18:18:00 [DanC]
- DO: I'd like to talk about this 9 May; I'm not avaiable 16 nor 23 May
- 18:18:48 [DanC]
- NM: I see an opportunity to reduce the text in the early sections quite a bit
- 18:20:17 [DanC]
- DO: yes, I can imagine a shorter "letter" given longer time
- 18:20:22 [Ian]
- ciao...
- 18:20:31 [Ian]
- Ian has left #tagmem
- 18:20:41 [timbl]
- http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-archive/2006Apr/att-0014/State.html
- 18:21:59 [DanC]
- TBL: I like abstracts that make the relevant points in one paragraph
- 18:22:10 [DanC]
- (I think that's a high bar; I raraly meet it myself.)
- 18:22:15 [noah]
- +1 to Tim's comment.
- 18:24:14 [DanC]
- TBL: is this a summary? There are several types of app ... state... client... server... stateful... stateles...
- 18:24:56 [DanC]
- ... cookies is an example of the 1st; @@ is an example of the 2nd; $ZZZ is always bad
- 18:26:09 [Zakim]
- -Ht
- 18:26:22 [DanC]
- (I'm not asking for less text, btw. I haven't read it closely enough to judge whether there's a lot of redundancy. I'm asking for the thesis statement(s) to be highlighted)
- 18:28:24 [DanC]
- ACTION NDW: review draft state finding for 9 May
- 18:28:26 [timbl]
- (Dave, a two-level essay: http://www.w3.org/2002/04/Japan/Lecture.html )
- 18:28:41 [DanC]
- VQ: and I suppose Ed is another reviewer
- 18:29:15 [DanC]
- Topic: Security Workshop follow-up
- 18:32:34 [DanC]
- DanC: (a) community service work on passwords in the clear...
- 18:34:23 [DanC]
- ... (b) specific investigation of decentralized auth ala OpenID/SXIP
- 18:34:32 [DanC]
- DanC: anybody intrested? a few: yes.
- 18:34:48 [DanC]
- ADJOURN.
- 18:34:51 [Zakim]
- -Norm
- 18:34:53 [Zakim]
- -Vincent
- 18:34:55 [Zakim]
- -noah
- 18:34:57 [Zakim]
- -DanC
- 18:38:45 [timbl_]
- timbl_ has joined #tagmem
- 18:39:52 [Zakim]
- -DOrchard
- 18:44:53 [Zakim]
- disconnecting the lone participant, TimBL, in TAG_Weekly()12:30PM
- 18:44:55 [Zakim]
- TAG_Weekly()12:30PM has ended
- 18:44:57 [Zakim]
- Attendees were Norm, DanC, Ht, Vincent, Noah_Mendelsohn, noah, DOrchard, TimBL, Ian
- 18:46:55 [timbl_]
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- 19:07:27 [Ian]
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- 19:07:33 [Ian]
- Hi Norm, DanC,
- 19:07:37 [Ian]
- Does this look ok for Chairs:
- 19:07:44 [Ian]
- Dear Chairs,
- 19:07:44 [Ian]
- Today the TAG reviewed and made some editorial clarifications to
- 19:07:44 [Ian]
- "URIs for W3C Namespaces" [1], which became effective 15 March
- 19:07:44 [Ian]
- 2006 [2]. A reference to the TAG finding "Associating Resources
- 19:07:44 [Ian]
- with Namespaces" [3] was also added. I do not believe the changes
- 19:07:45 [Ian]
- will have any impact on the publications process.
- 19:07:47 [Ian]
- I have attached a document that highlights differences from the
- 19:07:49 [Ian]
- version announced on 15 March.
- 19:07:51 [Ian]
- -----
- 19:25:59 [IanJ]
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- 20:53:11 [DanC]
- RRSAgent, please draft minutes
- 20:53:11 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2006/04/25-tagmem-minutes.html DanC
- 20:53:32 [DanC]
- RRSAgent, make logs world-access
- 20:54:14 [DanC]
- Meeting: TAG Weekly
- 20:54:17 [DanC]
- RRSAgent, please draft minutes
- 20:54:17 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2006/04/25-tagmem-minutes.html DanC
- 20:55:47 [DanC]
- action -2
- 21:20:07 [DanC]
- DanC has changed the topic to: TAG meets 2 May; scribe: Norm per http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/2006/04/25-tagmem-minutes