IRC log of dawg on 2006-04-18

Timestamps are in UTC.

14:27:49 [RRSAgent]

RRSAgent has joined #dawg

14:27:49 [RRSAgent]

logging to http://www.w3.org/2006/04/18-dawg-irc

14:29:24 [DanC]

Zakim, this is dawg

14:29:24 [Zakim]

ok, DanC; that matches SW_DAWG()10:30AM

14:29:30 [DanC]

Zakim, call DanC-BOS

14:29:30 [Zakim]

ok, DanC; the call is being made

14:29:31 [Zakim]

+DanC

14:29:50 [Zakim]

+??P1

14:29:52 [AndyS]

zakim, ??P1 is me

14:29:52 [Zakim]

+AndyS; got it

14:30:03 [EliasT]

Zakim, IBMCambridge is me

14:30:03 [Zakim]

+EliasT; got it

14:30:19 [EliasT]

Chair: DanC

14:30:23 [EliasT]

Scribe: EliasT

14:30:27 [Zakim]

+Libby_Miller

14:30:31 [Sven_Groppe]

Sven_Groppe has joined #dawg

14:30:33 [libby]

zakim, mute me

14:30:33 [Zakim]

Libby_Miller should now be muted

14:30:36 [Zakim]

+[IPcaller]

14:30:40 [Zakim]

+[IBMCambridge]

14:30:44 [jeen]

Zakim, [IPcaller] is me

14:30:44 [Zakim]

+jeen; got it

14:30:47 [LeeF]

Zakim, IBMCambrdige is LeeF

14:30:47 [Zakim]

sorry, LeeF, I do not recognize a party named 'IBMCambrdige'

14:30:58 [LeeF]

Zakim, IBMCambridge is LeeF

14:30:58 [Zakim]

+LeeF; got it

14:31:01 [LeeF]

So picky.

14:31:11 [DanC]

agenda + Convene RDF Data Access WG meeting of 2006-04-18T14:30Z

14:31:18 [DanC]

agenda + Future meetings

14:31:19 [AndyS]

EricP - extracted examples - any updates? I hope to make the corrections I noted in email

14:31:26 [DanC]

agenda + JSON results format

14:31:34 [DanC]

agenda + punctuationSyntax: bnodes in predicate

14:31:36 [AndyS]

many of the examples aren't checked though

14:31:40 [DanC]

agenda + valueTesting

14:31:47 [DanC]

agenda + test suite maintenance

14:31:52 [AndyS]

if there is an update soon I coudl do all fixes at once

14:31:54 [DanC]

agenda + MIME type registrations

14:32:00 [DanC]

agenda + UC&R end-game

14:32:07 [DanC]

Zakim, take up item 1

14:32:07 [Zakim]

agendum 1. "Convene RDF Data Access WG meeting of 2006-04-18T14:30Z" taken up [from DanC]

14:32:09 [EliasT]

Meeting: RDF Data Access Working Group weekly telecon

14:32:16 [DanC]

Zakim, who's on the phone?

14:32:16 [Zakim]

On the phone I see EliasT, DanC, AndyS, Libby_Miller (muted), jeen, LeeF

14:32:26 [Souri]

Souri has joined #dawg

14:32:42 [DanC]

DanC has changed the topic to: DAWG 18 apr http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/weekly-agenda

14:32:59 [Zakim]

+JacekK

14:33:13 [AndyS]

Regrets: Kendall Clark

14:33:18 [Sven_Groppe]

JacekK is me

14:33:30 [EliasT]

Zakim, JacekK is Sven_Groppe

14:33:30 [Zakim]

+Sven_Groppe; got it

14:33:54 [LeeF]

agenda is ok

14:33:58 [Zakim]

+Souri

14:34:01 [AndyS]

Jeen -- sound check?

14:34:16 [EliasT]

Regrets: KendallC

14:34:43 [ericP]

zakim, please dial ericP-617

14:34:43 [Zakim]

ok, ericP; the call is being made

14:34:45 [Zakim]

+EricP

14:34:52 [ericP]

zakim, thank you

14:34:52 [Zakim]

you are very welcome, ericP

14:35:00 [DanC]

-> http://www.w3.org/2006/04/11-dawg-minutes minutes 11 apr

14:35:00 [LeeF]

oo

14:35:06 [LeeF]

has it always been that polite?

14:35:35 [DanC]

RESOLVED to approve minutes 11 Apr

14:35:54 [DanC]

Zakim, next item

14:35:54 [Zakim]

agendum 2. "Future meetings" taken up [from DanC]

14:36:49 [DanC]

I'm in the mood to meet next 30 May

14:39:33 [EliasT]

jeen: Do we need a full meeting to work on the test suite?

14:39:43 [EliasT]

DanC: Well, to approve tests you need a WG decision.

14:40:51 [EliasT]

ericP: Looking for items that need WG decisions in agenda

14:41:39 [EliasT]

DanC: valueTesting seems to be needing more WG work.

14:42:23 [AndyS]

AFS notes that fn => http://www.w3.org/2004/07/xpath-functions

14:42:34 [EliasT]

DanC: if we don't decide when to meet next, we need a 7-day notice before we can meet.

14:43:34 [DanC]

PORPOSED: to meet next 2 May, EricP or KC to chair.

14:43:48 [DanC]

JB: regrets 2 May

14:43:58 [libby]

I can't make it either

14:44:18 [libby]

9 shoudl be ok

14:44:21 [DanC]

PORPOSED: to meet next 9 May, EricP or KC to chair.

14:44:22 [LeeF]

probably OK

14:45:00 [Zakim]

+[IPcaller]

14:45:25 [SteveH]

Zakim, IPcaller is SteveH

14:45:25 [Zakim]

+SteveH; got it

14:45:28 [AndyS]

Even http://www.w3.org/2005/xpath-functions is wrong because it seems to be /# for .../xpath-functions/#not

14:45:33 [SteveH]

zakim, mute me

14:45:33 [Zakim]

SteveH should now be muted

14:45:46 [EliasT]

Zakim, pick a victim

14:45:46 [Zakim]

Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose LeeF

14:45:55 [LeeF]

i can if i'm there, but i'm a bit at risk

14:46:00 [LeeF]

say, 70% chance of it being OK

14:46:29 [LeeF]

:-p

14:46:43 [DanC]

PORPOSED: to meet next 9 May, EricP or KC to chair, Lee or Jeen to scribe

14:47:06 [DanC]

RESOLVED: to meet next 9 May, EricP or KC to chair, Lee or Jeen to scribe.

14:47:10 [EliasT]

PROPOSE: to meet next 9 May, EricP or KC to chair, Lee or Jeen to scribe

14:47:19 [EliasT]

PROPOSED: to meet next 9 May, EricP or KC to chair, Lee or Jeen to scribe

14:47:23 [DanC]

Zakim, next item

14:47:23 [Zakim]

agendum 3. "JSON results format" taken up [from DanC]

14:47:49 [DanC]

ACTION: EricP to publish http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/json-sparql/ [CONTINUES]

14:48:49 [DanC]

comments to sparql-dev. Note

14:49:01 [DanC]

Zakim, next item

14:49:01 [Zakim]

agendum 4. "punctuationSyntax: bnodes in predicate" taken up [from DanC]

14:49:02 [EliasT]

ACTION: EricP to change status to reflect that comments should go to sparql-dev

14:50:17 [DanC]

ACTION: DanC find decision record for bnodes in predicate [CONTINUES]

14:50:38 [DanC]

Zakim, next item

14:50:38 [Zakim]

agendum 5. "valueTesting" taken up [from DanC]

14:51:29 [DanC]

-> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg-comments/2006Apr/0002.html Geoff's comment

14:52:03 [EliasT]

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2006AprJun/0047.html

14:52:28 [DanC]

-> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2006AprJun/0047.html Equality in FILTER [#ValueTesting] Seaborne, Andy (Tuesday, 18 April)

14:53:11 [DanC]

(boolean isn't a subtype of integer, is it?)

14:54:42 [DanC]

AFS: XQ F&O says False < True

14:55:10 [EliasT]

Souri: Does XPath say that?

14:55:25 [AndyS]

http://www.w3.org/TR/xpath-functions/#func-boolean-less-than

14:55:52 [AndyS]

Hmm - no boolean-compare which is odd

14:56:35 [DanC]

AFS: having < apply to booleans helps with sorting

14:57:41 [AndyS]

I'd be happiest with a general what does "=" mean principle

14:57:47 [EliasT]

DanC: would prefer to make WG decision based on tests

14:58:50 [EliasT]

DanC: are replies to Geoff should be backed by tests.

14:59:35 [AndyS]

Geoff's comment is http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg-comments/2006Apr/0003.html (not 0002)

14:59:57 [ericP]

ACTION: EricP to propose text and tests to add {boolean < > = != boolean} to SPARQL

15:00:07 [DanC]

ah... indeed, 0002 is the wrong one

15:00:07 [AndyS]

As we discussed last week, I have acked him offlist that I fwd'ed it to the WG list

15:00:33 [EliasT]

<EtnaRosso> i dont like librdf

15:00:33 [EliasT]

<dajobe> maybe it doesn't like you :-P

15:01:35 [Sven_Groppe]

must leave because of Kindergarten opening times...

15:01:50 [DanC]

enjoy, Sven

15:01:56 [EliasT]

DanC: can you look for roman numeral test?

15:02:01 [Zakim]

-Sven_Groppe

15:02:29 [Sven_Groppe]

Sven_Groppe has left #dawg

15:03:12 [AndyS]

DanC: it should be that no processor says "2 != II^^:roman"

15:03:25 [SteveH]

+! to what danc is saying

15:03:28 [SteveH]

+1 even

15:03:47 [SteveH]

(= sometimes being equivalence and sometimes value compare?)

15:04:45 [ericP]

FILTER ( "XI"^^xsd:romanNumeral = "two"^^xsd:numericText ) in a naive processor falls through to the {RDFTerm = RDFTerm} test and = FALSE

15:04:46 [AndyS]

What about ?p = <foo> ??

15:05:11 [ericP]

when the processor understands both xsd:romanNumeral and xsd:numericText, we get TRUE

15:06:19 [EliasT]

DanC: it would be interesting to see what users think getting type errors when we have unknown terms.

15:06:51 [DanC]

(er... integer and decimal do intersect)

15:07:17 [ericP]

FILTER ( ?p sameAs <foo> )

15:07:39 [EliasT]

ericP: if we have error propagation then tests would only change from error to TRUE when implementation learns about new types. (since all of our xsd types don't intersect)

15:07:42 [ericP]

FILTER ( ?p sameTermAs <foo> )

15:07:58 [ericP]

FILTER ( !(?p sameTermAs <foo>) )

15:08:07 [DanC]

(cwm calls it log:equalTo, I think, which is also goofy.)

15:08:14 [ericP]

maybe FILTER ( !(?p ¥ <foo>) ) ?

15:10:28 [EliasT]

ericP: the common usage is to be it numeric comparison and same term comparison, however the syntax gives us a non-monotonic behavior.

15:10:37 [EliasT]

AndyS: it could be monotonic if we throw an error.

15:11:48 [EliasT]

AndyS: if it doesn't have a clue, throws an error.

15:11:55 [ericP]

FILTER ( "XI"^^xsd:romanNumeral = "two"^^xsd:numericText )

15:12:25 [EliasT]

ericP: how do we differentiate between numeric and term compare?

15:12:30 [ericP]

(?x = "XI"^^xsd:romanNumeral) (?y = "two"^^xsd:numericText)

15:12:32 [EliasT]

DanC: you put it in the BGP

15:12:42 [ericP]

FILTER ( ?x = ?y )

15:12:45 [EliasT]

ericP: sorry for being dense

15:12:54 [AndyS]

s/XI/II/ ??

15:13:15 [DanC]

(?x = "II"^^xsd:romanNumeral) (?y = "two"^^xsd:numericText)

15:13:24 [EliasT]

DanC: it should be an error.

15:13:25 [ericP]

FILTER ( ?x = <foo> )

15:13:40 [DanC]

(should as in: that's what AFS is proposing)

15:13:58 [EliasT]

AndyS: it should return an error.

15:14:03 [DanC]

Zakim, mute my dog

15:14:03 [Zakim]

I don't understand 'mute my dog', DanC

15:14:10 [AndyS]

lol

15:14:19 [EliasT]

Present: DanC's dog

15:15:18 [AndyS]

Can do same-rdf-term by (1) BGP or (2) FILTER with str/datatype/lang (a bit verbose but uncommon?)

15:15:37 [EliasT]

ericP: I believe AndyS proposal to remove RDFTerm equal when the two are typed literals.

15:16:21 [DanC]

AFS isn't able to confirm based on the way that got recorded, but such is life

15:17:20 [AndyS]

EricP's or mine?

15:17:24 [LeeF]

All this has no bearing on error propagation, right?

15:17:26 [EliasT]

AndyS: yours.

15:18:05 [AndyS]

The discussion email is: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2006AprJun/0047.html

15:18:16 [AndyS]

Summary "=" on literals means sameValueAs

15:19:05 [EliasT]

in soviet russia...

15:20:10 [DanC]

Zakim, list actions

15:20:10 [Zakim]

I don't understand 'list actions', DanC

15:20:16 [DanC]

RRSAgent, list actions

15:20:16 [RRSAgent]

I see 4 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2006/04/18-dawg-actions.rdf :

15:20:16 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: EricP to publish http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/json-sparql/ [CONTINUES] [1]

15:20:16 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/04/18-dawg-irc#T14-47-49

15:20:16 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: EricP to change status to reflect that comments should go to sparql-dev [2]

15:20:16 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/04/18-dawg-irc#T14-49-02

15:20:16 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: DanC find decision record for bnodes in predicate [CONTINUES] [3]

15:20:16 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/04/18-dawg-irc#T14-50-17

15:20:16 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: EricP to propose text and tests to add {boolean < > = != boolean} to SPARQL [4]

15:20:16 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/04/18-dawg-irc#T14-59-57

15:20:29 [DanC]

ACTION EricP: draft text for open-world =

15:21:04 [DanC]

ACTION Andy: draft of open-world = tests

15:21:43 [DanC]

Zakim, next item

15:21:43 [Zakim]

agendum 6. "test suite maintenance" taken up [from DanC]

15:22:05 [DanC]

ACTION: DanC to follow up re optional test based on op:dateTime triple [CONTINUES]

15:23:41 [DanC]

ACTION: DanC to follow up re optional test based on op:dateTime triple [WITHDRAWN]

15:24:29 [DanC]

ACTION AndyS: contribute a couple tests for computed-properties/virtual-prop/builtin. one usingn lists, and one not using lists

15:24:55 [DanC]

ACTION: EricP and Jeen to fix OPTIONAL coding [DONE]

15:25:36 [DanC]

jeen's work is noted in http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2006AprJun/0020.html

15:26:55 [jeen]

http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/tests/data/extracted-examples/extract

15:26:56 [ericP]

http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/tests/data/extracted-examples/extract

15:27:38 [DanC]

Zakim, next item

15:27:38 [Zakim]

agendum 7. "MIME type registrations" taken up [from DanC]

15:28:24 [DanC]

ACTION: EricP to respond to Dirk on MIME type stuff [CONTINUES]

15:28:35 [DanC]

ACTION EricP: to follow up on mime type requests (2Mar) [CONTINUES]

15:29:12 [EliasT]

May 2

15:29:17 [EliasT]

sorry

15:29:25 [DanC]

ADJOURN.

15:29:39 [Zakim]

-Souri

15:29:46 [Zakim]

-Libby_Miller

15:29:47 [Zakim]

-jeen

15:29:48 [SteveH]

bye

15:30:00 [Zakim]

-SteveH

15:30:10 [EliasT]

RRSAgent, please draft minutes

15:30:10 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2006/04/18-dawg-minutes.html EliasT

15:30:19 [EliasT]

RRSAgent, make logs world-access

15:30:35 [EliasT]

RRSAgent, please stop