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12:54:16 <RalphS> Meeting: RDF in XHTML TF
12:54:29 <RalphS> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2006Apr/0002.html
12:54:50 <RalphS> Previous: 2006-04-03 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2006Apr/0003.html
12:56:17 <Steven> That's last week's agenda RalphS
12:56:59 <Steven> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2006Apr/0009
12:57:03 <RalphS> thanks, Steven
12:57:29 <RalphS> clicked too far down the index page :(
12:59:25 <Steven_> Steven_ has joined #htmltf
12:59:38 <Steven_> weak network here
13:01:28 <Zakim> SW_BPD(rdfxhtml)9:00AM has now started
13:01:35 <Zakim> +Ralph
13:04:12 <MarkB_> MarkB_ has joined #htmltf
13:05:03 <Zakim> +??P9
13:05:06 <Steven_> zakim, dial steven-mobile
13:05:06 <Zakim> ok, Steven_; the call is being made
13:05:07 <Zakim> +Steven
13:05:11 <MarkB_> zakim, i am ?
13:05:11 <Zakim> +MarkB_; got it
13:05:50 <Steven_> can you hear me?
13:05:57 <Zakim> +Ben_Adida
13:06:01 <benadida> benadida has joined #htmltf
13:06:13 <Steven_> I hear nought
13:06:19 <Zakim> -Steven
13:06:24 <Steven_> zakim, dial steven-mobile
13:06:24 <Zakim> ok, Steven_; the call is being made
13:06:26 <Zakim> +Steven
13:07:20 <RalphS> Chair: Ben
13:07:33 <Steven_> zakim, country code 86?
13:07:33 <Zakim> I don't understand your question, Steven_.
13:07:38 <RalphS> zakim, where is +86?
13:07:38 <Zakim> country code 86 is China
13:08:48 <RalphS> Topic: Action Item Review
13:09:18 <RalphS> [DONE] ACTION: Ben review Jeremy's actions [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/03/20-htmltf-minutes.html#action14]
13:09:41 <RalphS> -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2006Apr/0007.html following up on issues assigned to Jeremy [Ben]
13:09:50 <RalphS> [PENDING] ACTION: Ben start separate mail threads on remaining discussion topics [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/12/06-swbp-minutes#action04]
13:09:56 <RalphS> Ben: expect to complete this this week
13:10:06 <RalphS> [DONE] ACTION: Ben to develop a plan for a marketing/news web site about RDF/A and send it to the list [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/03/13-htmltf-minutes.html#action16]
13:10:24 <RalphS> -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2006Apr/0008.html The RDF/A Marketing Site [Ben]
13:10:49 <RalphS> ACTION: Mark, Steven, and Ralph respond to Ben's off-list draft of response to Bjoern [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/03/13-htmltf-minutes.html#action05]
13:11:04 <Steven_> Done by Steven
13:11:30 <RalphS> Mark: I started writing a reply to Ben, will complete soon.  Bjoern has received several messages from us so the tone should not imply this is the first reply.
13:11:43 <RalphS> ... hope to finish my comments today
13:11:50 <RalphS> ACTION: Ben update his bookmarklet for XHTML mode [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/03/13-htmltf-minutes.html#action12]
13:11:52 <RalphS> -- continues
13:12:00 <RalphS> ACTION: Ben to draft full response to Bjoern's 2004 email [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/01/24-swbp-minutes.html#action03]
13:12:02 <RalphS> -- continues
13:15:09 <RalphS> Ralph: I'm happy with Ben's latest draft of response to Bjoern
13:15:30 <RalphS> [WITHDRAWN] ACTION: Jeremy followup on HEAD about= edge case [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/12/06-swbp-minutes#action03]
13:15:38 <RalphS> [WITHDRAWN] ACTION: Jeremy followup with Mark on the question of multiple triples from nested meta and add to issues list [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/12/06-swbp-minutes#action01]
13:15:46 <RalphS> [WITHDRAWN] ACTION: Jeremy look into the XHTML namespace issue and write thoughts into email [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/03/06-htmltf-minutes.html#action02]... next
13:15:52 <RalphS> [WITHDRAWN] ACTION: Jeremy propose wording on reification [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/12/06-swbp-minutes#action02]
13:16:02 <benadida> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2006Apr/0007
13:16:57 <RalphS> ACTION: Ben integrate Jeremy's action into list of issues
13:17:12 <RalphS> s/action/actions
13:17:29 <RalphS> [DONE] ACTION: Mark work on a first draft of an RDF/A XHTML 1.1 module [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/03/06-htmltf-minutes.html#action01]
13:17:52 <RalphS> -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2006Apr/0023.html [ACTION] Produce XHTML M12N 1.1 Schemas for RDFA [Mark]
13:18:04 <RalphS> ACTION: once Steven sends editors' draft of XHTML2, all TF members take a look and comment on showstopper issues only [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/02/06-htmltf-minutes.html#action01]
13:18:06 <RalphS> -- continues
13:18:34 <MarkB_> zakim, mute me
13:18:34 <Zakim> MarkB_ should now be muted
13:19:04 <MarkB_> zakim, unmute me
13:19:04 <Zakim> MarkB_ should no longer be muted
13:19:31 <RalphS> Topic: Report on W3C Presentation
13:19:55 <RalphS> Ben: I presented a version of my Semantic Technologies talk to the W3C Staff last week
13:20:04 <RalphS> ... had more demos and technical detail
13:20:26 <RalphS> ... there was a lot of interest in seeing how this would work as an XHTML 1.1 module
13:20:53 <RalphS> ... interest in deployment issues for existing browsers
13:26:46 <RalphS> Steven: redefining 'rel' became an issue
13:28:00 <RalphS> Ralph: I think redefining 'rel' is a backwards compatibility question
13:28:53 <RalphS> Mark: 'rel' values without prefix are in the XHTML namespace, and there won't be anything at the URI.
13:29:08 <RalphS> ... HTML has been that way (nothing at the URI) for years, so what's the problem?
13:29:22 <RalphS> ... layered approach is good and should be emphasized
13:29:42 <RalphS> Ben: Mozilla liked the changes to 'rel'
13:32:03 <RalphS> Ralph: key message in Ben's presentation is the benefit that comes from putting RDF statements in the same document with the hypertext
13:33:37 <RalphS> Mark: someone has posted a suggestion to use RDF/A to markup text values in an RDF/XML OWL document
13:33:55 <RalphS> ... he noted that he needed to invent a namespace for the RDF/A attributes in order to do this
13:34:08 <RalphS> ... wanted to identify medical terms in the text
13:34:39 <RalphS> ... ~November 2005 in SWBPD list
13:35:23 <RalphS> Ben: mnemonic "DRY" - Don't Repeat Yourself -- was suggested for the goal to not repeat data between RDF and display
13:36:06 <RalphS> Topic: XHTML 1.1 Module
13:36:36 <RalphS> -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2006Apr/0023.html Mark's draft of module
13:37:13 <RalphS> Mark: I found I had to create more new modules rather than just override existing ones
13:37:28 <RalphS> ... I tried to resolve all the issues; e.g. CURIEs in href
13:37:35 <RalphS> ... not sure what we should try to release first
13:37:48 <RalphS> ... perhaps just META and LINK everywhere and QNames in 'rel'
13:38:10 <benadida> q+ to talk about next WG
13:38:15 <RalphS> ... clicking on a link that contains '[...]' is trickier
13:38:57 <Zakim> benadida, you wanted to talk about next WG
13:39:23 <RalphS> Ben: there is interest in having an XHTML 1.1 module proposal to be input to the proposed SemWeb Deployment WG
13:40:04 <RalphS> ... in that sense, having a complete proposal is good; can now start looking at how much of it could be deployed
13:40:26 <RalphS> Mark: if there's a good case for implementing the whole thing, I'd much prefer that
13:40:49 <RalphS> Ben: there will be concern for folk who choose not to upgrade their browser for a while
13:41:42 <Zakim> RalphS, you wanted to ask about changes to XHTML 1.1
13:43:37 <RalphS> Ralph: is the XHTML 1.1 [modularization] specification being reopened for change?  I'm a neophyte in XHTML 1.1 stuff.
13:43:55 <RalphS> Steven: don't get confused by the "1.1" numbering of both XHTML and XHTML Modularization
13:44:19 <RalphS> Mark: I'm only saying that the changes needed to META and LINK are so fundamental ...
13:44:38 <RalphS> ... what Modularization expects you to do is create a layer that redefines things in the modularization
13:44:50 <RalphS> ... e.g. to add 'about' you go to 'common.extra' and simply add your attribute
13:45:02 <RalphS> ... the architecture is designed to make it easy to add elements and attributes
13:45:16 <RalphS> ... you're not supposed to need layers unless you want to fundamentally alter the architecture
13:45:28 <RalphS> ... and I decided that such a fundamental change was appropriate
13:46:08 <RalphS> Steven: yes, Modularization does provide an extension mechanism but you cannot, e.g. add 'href' to 'common.extras' because you'll get duplicate href definitions
13:46:28 <RalphS> Mark: I only had to modify existing definitions for A, LINK, and imagemap
13:46:55 <RalphS> ... I found I had to make more changes to the schemas than I would have preferred to make
13:48:15 <RalphS> Ralph: so everything you needed to do to add RDF/A as an XHTML 1.1 module can be done without a WG in the HTML Activity making changes to existing XHTML specs?
13:48:34 <RalphS> Mark: right, the existing specs are enough to support this work
13:48:47 <RalphS> Steven: we've learned that attributes should not be hardwired to specific elements
13:49:18 <RalphS> ... modularization does not allow a local attribute to be generalized; this is the one feature we didn't consider
13:49:23 <RalphS> ... so this makes href more difficult
13:49:42 <RalphS> Mark: we need to discuss how this moves forward
13:49:52 <RalphS> ... e.g. 'name' is currently required and needs to be made optional
13:50:47 <RalphS> ... a new document might not be conformant to an older schema
13:52:55 <RalphS> q+ to ask how best to keep records of the early modularization work on W3C site
13:54:30 <Zakim> RalphS, you wanted to ask how best to keep records of the early modularization work on W3C site
13:56:03 <Steven_> zakim, mute me
13:56:03 <Zakim> sorry, Steven_, I do not see a party named 'Steven_'
13:56:14 <Steven_> zakim, I am Steven
13:56:14 <Zakim> ok, Steven_, I now associate you with Steven
13:56:18 <Steven_> zakim, mute me
13:56:18 <Zakim> Steven should now be muted
13:57:49 <RalphS> Ralph: Mark, please email snapshots of your pages to TF mailing list or to www-archive@w3.org
13:59:18 <RalphS> ... could also use W3C Wiki
14:00:04 <Steven_> url of pages?
14:00:05 <RalphS> Mark: there is a 'print' button that will print all the pages as a single document
14:00:24 <benadida> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2006Apr/0007
14:00:32 <RalphS> ... note, too, that comments are enabled on the skimstone site
14:00:54 <RalphS> Topic: Proposals on Some Outstanding Issues
14:01:03 <RalphS> Ben: please read 0007 and respond
14:01:16 <RalphS> next meeting: Tuesday 18 April 1300 UTC
14:01:30 <RalphS> [adjourned]
14:01:31 <Zakim> -Ben_Adida
14:01:33 <Zakim> -MarkB_
14:01:33 <benadida> benadida has left #htmltf
14:01:34 <Zakim> -Ralph
14:01:37 <Zakim> -Steven
14:01:40 <Zakim> SW_BPD(rdfxhtml)9:00AM has ended
14:01:42 <Zakim> Attendees were Ralph, Steven, MarkB_, Ben_Adida
14:02:01 <RalphS> rrsagent, please make record public
14:04:10 <RalphS> rrsagent, please draft minutes
14:04:10 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2006/04/10-htmltf-minutes.html RalphS
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