19:20:00 RRSAgent has joined #wai-wcag 19:20:00 logging to http://www.w3.org/2006/03/23-wai-wcag-irc 19:29:28 zakim, list conferences 19:29:28 I see SVG_WG()2:00PM, XML_EXI()1:30PM active 19:29:30 also scheduled at this time are WAI_UAWG()2:00PM, SW_PAW(CWM*)1:00PM 19:29:36 zakim, this will be WAI_WCAG 19:29:36 ok, ben; I see WAI_WCAG()3:00PM scheduled to start in 31 minutes 19:29:46 Meeting: WCAG Weekly Telecon 19:30:02 chair: Gregg_Vanderheiden and John_Slatin 19:30:14 Regrets: Tim_Boland, Becky_Gibson 19:30:39 agenda+ Remaining Normative Issues for 23 March 19:30:48 agenda+ Team C issues and techniques for 23 March 2006 19:30:55 agenda+ SC 2.4.5: How To Meet and Techniques 19:31:04 agenda+ GL 2.4 Issues 19:31:10 Misc. Open issues for 23 March 19:31:26 agenda+ 2 Conformance Questions 19:31:40 agenda+ 2.3 Proposal from Gregg 19:31:53 RRSagent, do not start a new log 19:50:33 regrets+ Roberto_Castaldo 19:52:36 Yvette has joined #wai-wcag 19:52:51 Hi ben 19:52:54 zakim, hi 19:52:54 I don't understand 'hi', Yvette 19:53:04 RRSagent, off 19:57:01 +??P24 19:57:03 -??P24 19:57:05 +??P24 19:57:25 zakim, ??P24 is Ben_Caldwell 19:57:25 +Ben_Caldwell; got it 19:57:27 + +1.310.641.aaaa 19:58:12 - +1.310.641.aaaa 19:58:45 zakim, Shadi is Kerstin_and_Cynthia 19:58:45 +Kerstin_and_Cynthia; got it 19:59:04 zakim, Ben_Caldwell has Gregg_Vanderheiden 19:59:04 +Gregg_Vanderheiden; got it 19:59:08 + +1.724.9.aabb 19:59:29 zakim, 1.724 is Yvette_Hoitink 19:59:29 sorry, ben, I do not recognize a party named '1.724' 19:59:30 zakim, +1.724 is Yvette_Hoitink 19:59:31 +Yvette_Hoitink; got it 19:59:33 rellero has joined #wai-wcag 19:59:45 zakim, who is on the phone? 19:59:45 On the phone I see Kerstin_and_Cynthia, Ben_Caldwell, Yvette_Hoitink 19:59:46 Ben_Caldwell has Gregg_Vanderheiden 20:00:01 Christophe has joined #wai-wcag 20:00:06 +Loretta_Guarino_Reid 20:00:33 Michael has joined #wai-wcag 20:00:50 +David_MacDonald 20:01:42 +Michael_Cooper 20:01:44 zakim, who is on the phone? 20:01:44 On the phone I see Kerstin_and_Cynthia, Ben_Caldwell, Yvette_Hoitink, Loretta_Guarino_Reid, David_MacDonald, Michael_Cooper 20:01:46 Ben_Caldwell has Gregg_Vanderheiden 20:02:02 +[IPcaller] 20:02:11 zakim, I am Michael_Cooper 20:02:11 ok, Michael, I now associate you with Michael_Cooper 20:02:32 zakim, I am Ben_Caldwell 20:02:32 ok, ben, I now associate you with Ben_Caldwell 20:02:47 +Christophe_Strobbe 20:02:48 Sorcha has joined #wai-wcag 20:02:56 Sofia has joined #wai-wcag 20:03:36 zakim, Ben_Caldwell has John_Slatin 20:03:36 +John_Slatin; got it 20:03:41 +Sofia_Celic 20:03:59 zakim, Ben_Caldwell has Bruce_Bailey 20:03:59 +Bruce_Bailey; got it 20:04:17 sorcha moore 20:04:27 gregg has joined #wai-wcag 20:04:32 David_MacDonald has joined #wai-wcag 20:04:33 zakim, [IP is Sorcha_Moore 20:04:33 +Sorcha_Moore; got it 20:04:43 zakim, who is on the phone? 20:04:43 On the phone I see Kerstin_and_Cynthia, Ben_Caldwell, Yvette_Hoitink, Loretta_Guarino_Reid, David_MacDonald, Michael_Cooper, Sorcha_Moore, Christophe_Strobbe, Sofia_Celic (muted) 20:04:46 Ben_Caldwell has Bruce_Bailey 20:04:52 +Alex_Li 20:05:10 Kesh has joined #wai-wcag 20:05:43 zakim, Ben_Caldwell has Gregg_Vanderheiden, John_Slatin, Bruce_Bailey 20:05:43 Bruce_Bailey was already listed in Ben_Caldwell, ben 20:05:44 +Gregg_Vanderheiden, John_Slatin; got it 20:05:50 +[IPcaller] 20:05:51 zakim, +[IPcaller is rellero 20:05:52 sorry, rellero, I do not recognize a party named '+[IPcaller' 20:06:07 zakim, [i is rellero 20:06:07 +rellero; got it 20:06:08 zakim, +IPcaller is rellero 20:06:09 sorry, rellero, I do not recognize a party named '+IPcaller' 20:06:12 zakim, mute me 20:06:12 rellero should now be muted 20:06:39 zakim, who is on the phone? 20:06:39 On the phone I see Kerstin_and_Cynthia, Ben_Caldwell, Yvette_Hoitink, Loretta_Guarino_Reid, David_MacDonald, Michael_Cooper, Sorcha_Moore, Christophe_Strobbe, Sofia_Celic (muted), 20:06:43 ... Alex_Li, rellero (muted) 20:06:44 Ben_Caldwell has Gregg_Vanderheiden, John_Slatin 20:07:06 zakim, mute me 20:07:06 Christophe_Strobbe should now be muted 20:07:22 +Kerstin_and_Cynthia.a 20:08:18 zakim, Kerstin_and_Cynthia.a is Andi_Snow-Weaver 20:08:18 +Andi_Snow-Weaver; got it 20:08:31 q+ 20:08:34 q+ 20:08:35 q+ 20:09:04 Andi has joined #wai-wcag 20:09:11 Topic: Issues with 2.3 20:09:17 scribe: ben 20:09:27 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-gl/2006JanMar/0652.html 20:09:54 bengt has joined #wai-wcag 20:10:16 ack yv 20:10:32 +Bengt_Farre 20:12:07 q+ 20:12:18 ack Mich 20:13:18 ack David 20:14:03 ack gregg 20:15:27 -Bengt_Farre 20:17:52 rscano has joined #wai-wcag 20:18:22 hi all! sorry but this evening i can stay only in IRC 20:19:04 bengt has joined #wai-wcag 20:19:11 +Bengt_Farre 20:22:22 Topic: Consent Decree Items from Surveys 20:22:55 (from normative survey) 403, 1722, 1290 20:23:11 20:23:11 (from team C survey) 1383, 1622, 1643, 1645, 1827, 1828, 1883, 1885, 1888, 1890, 1886, 1887, 1889, Providing a text message when the user provides information that is not in list of allowed values 20:23:18 20:23:18 (from 2.4.5 techniques survey) Identifying the purpose of a link using the link context, Providing link text for anchor elements that describes the purpose of a link, Identifying the purpose of a link using link text and text associated with the parent element of the link 20:23:33 (from 2.4 issues survey) 1563, 1741, 1812, 1832, 1710, 955, 1715, 1770, 1720 20:23:41 (from misc. items survey) 1819, 1360, 1839, 810, 1752, 1875, 1696, 1721, 1766, 1845, 1848, 1854 20:23:47 +Katie_Haritos-Shea 20:23:57 zakim, agenda? 20:23:57 I see 6 items remaining on the agenda: 20:23:58 1. Remaining Normative Issues for 23 March [from ben] 20:23:59 2. Team C issues and techniques for 23 March 2006 [from ben] 20:24:00 3. SC 2.4.5: How To Meet and Techniques [from ben] 20:24:01 4. GL 2.4 Issues [from ben] 20:24:02 5. 2 Conformance Questions [from ben] 20:24:02 zakim, take up agendum 1 20:24:03 6. 2.3 Proposal from Gregg [from ben] 20:24:04 agendum 1. "Remaining Normative Issues for 23 March" taken up [from ben] 20:25:12 Issue 1728: Scoping 20:25:24 Topic: Issue 1728: Scoping 20:27:56 q+ 20:28:58 Kesh has left #wai-wcag 20:29:13 Kesh has joined #wai-wcag 20:32:44 Andi has joined #wai-wcag 20:35:14 ack d 20:37:08 ack Kerst 20:41:00 resolution: Accept proposed revisions to scoping section with edits change "inaccessible" to "non-conforming" and replace "process unit" with "if the Web unit is part of a process" 20:41:39 Topic: 1767 20:43:30 resolution: Move 1.3.4 to Level 1 and close this issue. 20:43:39 zakim, close this item 20:43:39 agendum 1 closed 20:43:40 I see 5 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is 20:43:41 2. Team C issues and techniques for 23 March 2006 [from ben] 20:43:45 zakim, take up agendum 2 20:43:45 agendum 2. "Team C issues and techniques for 23 March 2006" taken up [from ben] 20:44:31 Topic: 1644 20:45:17 resolution: accept proposed definition as, "stopped by user request and not restarted until requested by user" 20:45:38 Topic: 1768: Clarify "invalidate the activity" 20:46:20 q+ 20:46:48 ack Yv 20:46:55 zakim, unmute me 20:46:55 Christophe_Strobbe should no longer be muted 20:48:15 zakim, mute me 20:48:15 Christophe_Strobbe should now be muted 20:49:03 resolution: do not revise the success criterion, and close issue 1768 with, "invalidating the activity better captures the intent and, according to working group memebers, translates better". 20:49:10 Topic: Issue 1826 20:53:33 Kesh has joined #wai-wcag 20:54:51 resolution: Close issue 1826 with, "There is not enough experience in applying the techniques with different types of servers and services to move this to level 2 at this time and the group could identify cases involving financial transaction where no one has been able to figure out how to do this without violating regulations regarding storing confidential information on a server after a transaction is completed or terminated." 20:55:04 Topic: 1653: 2.5.1 you'll have to reword this 20:59:05 20:59:05 resolution: Close issue 1653 with, "Audio-only content would not meet the requirements of WCAG under several SC. While WCAG describes accessibility features of audio, audio cannot be used alone without alternatives and be accessible to all users. The guidelines do not forbid using audio feedback about errors. Feedback about errors may be provided in audio, as long as the audio is also associated with text as per guideline 1.1." 20:59:48 Topic: 1884: SC 2.5.1 & 2.5.2: client-side validation should be optional 21:00:31 ack kerst 21:02:20 zakim, unmute me 21:02:20 Christophe_Strobbe should no longer be muted 21:04:22 zakim, mute me 21:04:22 Christophe_Strobbe should now be muted 21:04:32 resolution: Close issue 1884 with, "This was discussed determined to be a baseline issue - if script in baseline it should be fine. Either client-side or server-side validation is sufficient (depending on baseline). Note for security this is crucial but that's beyond our scope. Techniques for both client-side and server-side validation are suggested in the general techniques for this SC." 21:04:38 zakim, close this item 21:04:38 agendum 2 closed 21:04:39 I see 4 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is 21:04:41 3. SC 2.4.5: How To Meet and Techniques [from ben] 21:04:47 zakim, take up agendum 3 21:04:47 agendum 3. "SC 2.4.5: How To Meet and Techniques" taken up [from ben] 21:05:03 Topic: SC 2.4.5: How to Meet Success Criterion 2.4.5 21:09:12 resolution: accept How to Meet Success Criterion 2.4.5 as proposed, but rename technique titled, "Identifying the purpose of a link using the link context" to "Identifying the purpose of a link using link text combined with link context" 21:09:39 Topic: SC 2.4.5 General Technique: Providing link text that describes the purpose of a link 21:10:02 resolution: Accept General Technique: Providing link text that describes the purpose of a link with edits. 21:10:16 Topic: SC 2.4.5 Plain Text Technique: Identifying the purpose of a link using text in the enclosing sentence 21:14:58 -Andi_Snow-Weaver 21:17:02 +Andi_Snow-Weaver 21:18:24 q? 21:20:43 resolution: Remove Plain Text Technique: Identifying the purpose of a link using text in the enclosing sentence (not an accessibility issue) 21:22:05 zakim, close this item 21:22:05 agendum 3 closed 21:22:06 I see 3 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is 21:22:07 4. GL 2.4 Issues [from ben] 21:22:21 zakim, take up agendum 4 21:22:21 agendum 4. "GL 2.4 Issues" taken up [from ben] 21:22:42 Topic: Issue 1830: SC 2.4.3: remove technique "structure content so main content preceeds repeated material" 21:28:26 resolution: Close 1830 by removing technique titled, "structure content so main content preceeds repeated material" and add it to the comments section of the wiki. 21:28:32 zakim, close this item 21:28:32 agendum 4 closed 21:28:33 I see 2 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is 21:28:34 5. 2 Conformance Questions [from ben] 21:28:36 zakim, take up agendum 5 21:28:36 agendum 5. "2 Conformance Questions" taken up [from ben] 21:28:52 Topic: Issue 1835 GL 1.4 should require legible contents when using high contrast settings 21:31:29 action: Michael and David to work on failure technique titled, "Failure due to specifying foreground colors without specifying background colors or vice versa." 21:34:23 q+ 21:38:51 resolution: Close 1835 with, "Discussed at the 26 January 2006 Teleconference [1]: This would appear to require authors to know what operating system features would be for users (on different operating systems). We do not know how to write techniques for something like this. Guideline 1.3 ensures that content can be separated from presentation. This enables the operating system to present the information in an alternative manner, for example using high contrast. 21:38:57 q- 21:39:06 .. has been assigned 21:39:22 Topic: Issue 1798 SC 3.1.5 should depend on intended audience educational ability 21:39:26 -Andi_Snow-Weaver 21:43:05 action: John to write a rationale for closing this item 21:43:50 -Kerstin_and_Cynthia 21:44:04 resolution: close 1798 with a combination of Yvette, John and Michael's comments. 21:45:15 Topic: Issue 1861 Require use of familiar vocabulary 21:45:39 resolution: close as proposed plus Michael's comments 21:46:12 Topic: Issue 1446 - Add sign language to alternative representations 21:46:26 zakim, mute me 21:46:26 David_MacDonald should now be muted 21:47:52 zakim, unmute me 21:47:52 David_MacDonald should no longer be muted 21:53:55 21:53:55 21:53:55 resolution: Close issue 1446 as proposed, with revised note from Gregg's comments. 21:54:32 action: team B to add something to intent that suggests using multiple forms to address the needs of different groups 21:54:52 zakim, mute me 21:54:52 Yvette_Hoitink should now be muted 21:55:10 zakim, close this item 21:55:10 agendum 5 closed 21:55:11 I see 1 item remaining on the agenda: 21:55:12 6. 2.3 Proposal from Gregg [from ben] 21:55:17 zakim, take up agendum 6 21:55:17 agendum 6. "2.3 Proposal from Gregg" taken up [from ben] 21:55:25 Topic: Revisisons to Level Description 21:56:06 -Katie_Haritos-Shea 21:58:35 zakim, unmute me 21:58:35 Yvette_Hoitink should no longer be muted 22:01:48 Christophe has left #wai-wcag 22:03:15 -Christophe_Strobbe 22:06:16 q+ 22:07:09 resolution: Accept proposed revisions to level descriptions as proposed, revise second item under level 3 to read, "Can not neccessarily be applied to all Web resources." and revise first note to read, "Because not all level 3 success criteria can be used with all types of content, Triple-A conformance only requires conformance to a portion of level 3 success criteria." 22:07:22 Topic: Conformance Paragraph Revision 22:07:27 http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/20060323conformance/results#xconfpara 22:07:54 -Sorcha_Moore 22:08:06 q- 22:08:08 +[IPcaller] 22:08:14 sorcha moore rejoinging 22:08:31 zakim, [IP is Sorcha_Moore 22:08:31 +Sorcha_Moore; got it 22:09:55 q? 22:10:28 +Katie_Haritos-Shea 22:12:12 Ryladog has joined #wai-wcag 22:13:52 resolution: revise this paragraph to read, "All WCAG 2.0 success criteria are testable. While some can be tested by computer programs, others must be tested by qualified human testers. Sometimes, a combination of computer programs and qualified human testers may be used. When people who understand WCAG 2.0 test the same content using the same success criteria, the same results should be obtained with high inter-rater reliability." 22:15:25 22:15:25 resolution: close Issue 1358 with, "We revised this section to read, "All WCAG 2.0 success criteria are testable. While some can be tested by computer programs, others must be tested by qualified human testers. Sometimes, a combination of computer programs and qualified human testers may be used. When people who understand WCAG 2.0 test the same content using the same success criteria, the same results should be obtained with high inter-rater reliability." " 22:20:00 action: Bruce and John to update conformance examples and version numbers and update them appropriately 22:20:20 Topic: Guideline 2.3 - additional criterion 22:20:42 q+ 22:21:23 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-gl/2006JanMar/0652.html 22:23:13 q+ 22:23:20 ack g 22:23:22 ack m 22:30:14 22:30:14 resolution: add a new success criterion (2.3.2) at level 3 that reads, "Web units do not contain any compontents that flash more than 3 times in any one second period." 22:35:34 q+ to ask "reopen? 22:35:53 zakim, who is on the phone? 22:35:53 On the phone I see Ben_Caldwell, Yvette_Hoitink, Loretta_Guarino_Reid, David_MacDonald, Michael_Cooper, Sofia_Celic (muted), Alex_Li, rellero (muted), Bengt_Farre, Sorcha_Moore, 22:35:56 ... Katie_Haritos-Shea 22:35:57 Ben_Caldwell has Gregg_Vanderheiden, John_Slatin 22:37:37 Topic: Advance Guidelines to Last Call? 22:40:11 q- 22:40:15 ack sor 22:40:28 ack lo 22:43:27 q+ 22:46:27 zakim, who is on the phone 22:46:27 I don't understand 'who is on the phone', ben 22:46:38 zakim, who is on the phone? 22:46:38 On the phone I see Ben_Caldwell, Yvette_Hoitink, Loretta_Guarino_Reid, David_MacDonald, Michael_Cooper, Sofia_Celic (muted), Alex_Li, rellero (muted), Bengt_Farre, Sorcha_Moore, 22:46:38 zakim, who is on the phone? 22:46:42 ... Katie_Haritos-Shea 22:46:43 Ben_Caldwell has Gregg_Vanderheiden, John_Slatin 22:46:44 On the phone I see Ben_Caldwell, Yvette_Hoitink, Loretta_Guarino_Reid, David_MacDonald, Michael_Cooper, Sofia_Celic (muted), Alex_Li, rellero (muted), Bengt_Farre, Sorcha_Moore, 22:46:46 ... Katie_Haritos-Shea 22:46:47 Ben_Caldwell has Gregg_Vanderheiden, John_Slatin 22:47:13 zakim, who is on the phone? 22:47:13 On the phone I see Ben_Caldwell, Yvette_Hoitink, Loretta_Guarino_Reid, David_MacDonald, Michael_Cooper, Sofia_Celic (muted), Alex_Li, rellero (muted), Bengt_Farre, Sorcha_Moore, 22:47:16 ... Katie_Haritos-Shea 22:47:17 Ben_Caldwell has Gregg_Vanderheiden, John_Slatin 22:56:57 22:56:57 Present: Kerstin_Goldsmith, Cynthia_Shelly, Ben_Caldwell, Yvette_Hoitink, Loretta_Guarino_Reid, David_MacDonald, Michael_Cooper, Sorcha_Moore, Christophe_Strobbe, Sofia_Celic, Alex_Li, Roberto_Ellero, Bruce_Bailey, Gregg_Vanderheiden, John_Slatin, Andi_Snow-Weaver, Bengt_Farre, Katie_Haritos-Shea 22:58:53 -Yvette_Hoitink 22:59:22 +Yvette_Hoitink 23:01:49 -Loretta_Guarino_Reid 23:07:59 -Alex_Li 23:11:39 zakim, who's on the phone? 23:11:39 On the phone I see Ben_Caldwell, David_MacDonald, Michael_Cooper, Sofia_Celic (muted), rellero (muted), Bengt_Farre, Sorcha_Moore, Katie_Haritos-Shea, Yvette_Hoitink 23:11:42 Ben_Caldwell has Gregg_Vanderheiden, John_Slatin 23:12:26 -rellero 23:18:54 /me DEFINITION 23:18:54 full corrected text screenplay including any interaction 23:19:14 /me a document describing all visual context, action of the actors, dialog, sounds etc that are typically included in screenplays presented in a multimedia presentation that includes a means for achieving any outcomes that are acheived using interaction during the mulitmedia 23:22:02 q+ 23:23:28 ack b 23:23:35 q- 23:23:50 ack Katie 23:23:55 ack Ry 23:27:04 q+ 23:27:23 ack Ryla 23:27:26 q+ 23:34:32 Topic: 1.2 revisions 23:34:34 23:34:34 resolution: accept proposed revisions (below) to 1.2 subject to confirmation from members in good standing 23:34:45 1.2.1 Captions are provided for prerecorded multimedia. 23:34:52 1.2.2 Audio descriptions of video or a full corrected text screenplay including any interaction are provided for prerecorded multimedia. 23:34:58 definition of "full corrected text screenplay including any interaction" as, "a document describing all visual context, action of the actors, dialog, sounds etc that are typically included in screenplays presented in a multimedia presentation that includes a means for achieving any outcomes that are acheived using interaction during the mulitmedia" 23:35:06 NOTE: A screenplay used to create the multimedia content would meet this definition only if it was corrected to accurately represent the final multimedia as it occurred and after editing etc. 23:35:13 1.2.3 Audio descriptions of video are provided for prerecorded multimedia. 23:35:22 Topic: Last Call? 23:35:37 resolution: advance WCAG 2.0 guidelines document (as ammended by today's decisions) as a last call working draft. 23:36:16 -Sofia_Celic 23:39:12 Sorcha has left #wai-wcag 23:40:42 -Michael_Cooper 23:40:43 -Bengt_Farre 23:40:43 -David_MacDonald 23:40:44 -Ben_Caldwell 23:40:45 -Katie_Haritos-Shea 23:40:47 -Yvette_Hoitink 23:40:48 -Sorcha_Moore 23:40:49 WAI_WCAG()3:00PM has ended 23:40:50 Attendees were +1.310.641.aaaa, Kerstin_and_Cynthia, Gregg_Vanderheiden, +1.724.9.aabb, Yvette_Hoitink, Loretta_Guarino_Reid, David_MacDonald, Michael_Cooper, [IPcaller], 23:40:53 ... Christophe_Strobbe, John_Slatin, Sofia_Celic, Bruce_Bailey, Sorcha_Moore, Alex_Li, rellero, Andi_Snow-Weaver, Bengt_Farre, Katie_Haritos-Shea 23:41:15 Zakim, bye 23:41:15 Zakim has left #wai-wcag 23:41:22 bengt has left #wai-wcag 23:41:52 RRSAgent, bye 23:41:52 I see 4 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2006/03/23-wai-wcag-actions.rdf : 23:41:52 ACTION: Michael and David to work on failure technique titled, "Failure due to specifying foreground colors without specifying background colors or vice versa." [1] 23:41:52 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/03/23-wai-wcag-irc#T21-31-29 23:41:52 ACTION: John to write a rationale for closing this item [2] 23:41:52 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/03/23-wai-wcag-irc#T21-43-05 23:41:52 ACTION: team B to add something to intent that suggests using multiple forms to address the needs of different groups [3] 23:41:52 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/03/23-wai-wcag-irc#T21-54-32 23:41:52 ACTION: Bruce and John to update conformance examples and version numbers and update them appropriately [4] 23:41:52 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/03/23-wai-wcag-irc#T22-20-00