17:58:21 RRSAgent has joined #swbp 17:58:21 logging to http://www.w3.org/2006/03/06-swbp-irc 17:58:23 Zakim has joined #swbp 17:58:31 Meeting: SWBPD WG 17:58:49 Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swbp-wg/2006Mar/0010.html 17:59:06 Previous: http://www.w3.org/2006/02/20-swbp-minutes.html 2006-02-20 17:59:18 zakim, this will be swbp 17:59:18 ok, RalphS; I see SW_BPD()1:00PM scheduled to start in 1 minute 18:01:05 JeffP has joined #swbp 18:01:08 SW_BPD()1:00PM has now started 18:01:15 +??P0 18:01:17 -??P0 18:01:18 SW_BPD()1:00PM has ended 18:01:19 Attendees were 18:01:28 SW_BPD()1:00PM has now started 18:01:31 +Libby_Miller 18:01:42 +Ralph 18:01:44 -Ralph 18:01:45 +Ralph 18:02:07 +??P3 18:02:09 +Alistair_Miles (was ??P3) 18:02:22 +JeffP 18:02:42 +David_Wood 18:02:44 Hi all I wont be joining by phone, on IRC only tonight 18:03:03 zakim, alistair is really me 18:03:03 +aliman; got it 18:03:04 Hi Ben 18:03:18 dwood has joined #swbp 18:03:52 raphael has joined #swbp 18:03:54 hi all 18:04:01 zakim, mute me 18:04:01 Libby_Miller should now be muted 18:04:37 Regrets: Deb McGuinness, Elisa Kendall, Ben Adida, Gary Ng, Benjamin Nguyen (IRC only), Jacco van Ossenbruggen, Chris Halaschek, David Booth (expected to be 30 minutes late), Tom Baker, Giorgos Stamou 18:04:41 +??P5 18:04:50 guusschreiber has joined #swbp 18:04:50 zakim, ??p5 is Raphael 18:04:50 +Raphael; got it 18:05:10 zakim, mute me 18:05:10 Raphael should now be muted 18:05:41 zakim, nominate a victim 18:05:41 Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose aliman 18:05:49 Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose Ralph 18:05:56 Scribe: Ralph 18:06:03 ScribeNick: RalphS 18:07:18 +[IPcaller] 18:07:35 zakim, ipcaller is Guus 18:07:35 +Guus; got it 18:07:50 zakim, mute guus temporarily 18:07:50 Guus should now be muted 18:08:06 Guus should now be unmuted again 18:08:43 zakim, mute guus 18:08:43 Guus should now be muted 18:08:55 Chair: DavidW 18:09:04 im on the phone 18:09:06 Topic: Admin 18:09:11 PROPOSED to accept the minutes of the 20 Feb 2005 telecon: 18:09:11 http://www.w3.org/2006/02/20-swbp-minutes.html 18:09:15 second 18:09:33 RESOLVED to accept the minutes of the 20 Feb 2005 telecon: http://www.w3.org/2006/02/20-swbp-minutes.html 18:09:35 PROPOSED next meeting 20 March 2006 18:09:59 I'm at risk 18:10:05 me, too 18:10:28 RESOLVED next meeting 20 March 2006 18:10:28 I can do the agenda 18:10:42 DavidW is at risk 18:10:47 Ralph backup chair 18:11:14 zakim, who's on the call? 18:11:14 On the phone I see Libby_Miller (muted), Ralph, aliman, JeffP, David_Wood, Raphael (muted), Guus (muted) 18:11:25 Topic: 3. TASK FORCE UPDATES 18:11:32 on IRC only 18:11:33 Topic: 3.1 PORT - Porting Thesaurii to RDF and OWL 18:11:51 Alistair: I've just written up a few issues; flagging them as place-holders 18:11:56 ... these don't have to be resolved immediately 18:12:05 ... see SKOS Core Proposals and Issues 18:12:16 q+ to ask for each TF their plan for May i finish 18:12:19 ... I've also hacked-up a validator for SKOS 18:12:26 ... see SKOS Core home page 18:12:37 ... a Chinese translation of labels and comments has been contributed 18:12:55 chalaschek has joined #swbp 18:12:57 ... it's a quite meticulous bit of work 18:13:18 ... last week at the face-to-face we had two very good discussions about some of the SKOS open issues 18:13:34 ... 1. whether or not SKOS Core can be imported into an OWL ontology 18:13:48 ... 2. the relationship between SKOS and OWL 18:13:49 -Guus 18:14:16 ... if you have a SKOS thesaurus and and OWL ontology that cover the same area, how do you assert relationships between the two? 18:14:26 ... I don't consider either of these vital to the immediate success of SKOS 18:14:47 ... the question of whether we expect to get a third SKOS WD out in the lifetime of this WG is still open 18:15:03 +[IPcaller] 18:15:03 DavidW: I suggest RFC 2119 MUST/MAY/SHOULD language 18:15:21 ... this defines useful keywords 18:15:46 zakim, [IPcaller] is Guus 18:15:46 +Guus; got it 18:15:46 ... referencing this RFC and using those terms is consistent with other specs 18:17:42 ... if we do a third WD it won't have substantive changes to SKOS Core, mostly a new appendix on extension 18:18:00 ... beyond May, resolution of issues on Issues and Proposals list 18:18:10 zakim, I am David_Wood 18:18:10 ok, dwood, I now associate you with David_Wood 18:18:21 ... if proposal to do a SKOS Recommendation goes ahead, I would like to write a Use Cases and Requirements document 18:18:27 ... this would take a couple of months to do 18:18:44 Topic: 3.2 OEP - Ontology Engineering and Patterns 18:19:30 zakim, unmute me 18:19:30 Raphael should no longer be muted 18:19:36 ack guus 18:19:36 guusschreiber, you wanted to ask for each TF their plan for May i finish 18:19:36 Guus: there's progress on the Semantic Interoperability note 18:19:39 q? 18:19:41 ... Mike sent a link to the new draft 18:19:48 [DONE] ACTION: Mike to put up latest version of the sem integration note [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/02/06-swbp-minutes.html#action10] 18:20:08 -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swbp-wg/2006Feb/0170.html Mike's review 18:20:25 Raphael: I will do my review during the week 18:20:36 [PENDING] ACTION: Raphael Georgios S, Fabien, Phil to review Semantic Integration note [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/12/12-swbp-minutes.html#action15] 18:21:07 ACTION: Guus remind Giorgos, Fabien, and Phil that their review of Semantic Interoperability editor's draft should now commence 18:21:21 [PENDING] ACTION: Guus to review OWL Time note [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/12/12-swbp-minutes.html#action09] 18:21:44 [PENDING] ACTION Guus to incorporate Alistair's comments into revised draft of QCR draft, based on Alan's revision [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/12/12-swbp-minutes.html#action19] 18:21:50 Guus: no progress report on part-whole note 18:23:04 ACTION: Guus check with Elisa and Deb on which remaining OEP notes are feasible to complete by 1 May 18:23:18 [PENDING] ACTION: Elisa/Chris to work with Ralph to make part-whole doc ready for publication (Elisa took over this action from Chris and Alan) [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/01/23-swbp-minutes.html#action11] 18:23:36 Topic: 3.3 WordNet 18:23:53 DavidW: Aldo is asking for an additional reviewer 18:24:08 I can review 18:25:01 ACTION: Benjamin review WordNet editor's draft 18:25:19 zakim, mute me 18:25:19 aliman should now be muted 18:25:45 Benjamin, Guus wonders if you can complete the review before the next telecon? 18:25:58 (please :) 18:26:04 sure I can ralph 18:26:08 thanks 18:27:11 Guus: my target is to publish the current editor's draft as a WD by 1 May 18:27:30 Topic: 3.4 XSCH - XML Schema Datatypes 18:27:38 [DONE] ACTION: DavidW prod Evan for his comments on the XSCH Editor's Draft [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/02/20-swbp-minutes.html#action14] 18:27:45 [DONE] ACTION: Ralph and Evan to provide reviews of Schema note http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/BestPractices/XSCH/xsch-sw-20060127/ by next meeting [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/02/06-swbp-minutes.html#action19] 18:28:21 Jeff: Evan's comments were mostly editorial 18:28:27 ... I added some to section 3.6 18:29:05 Ralph: I reported my quick review at the previous telecon 18:29:13 ... I'm comfortable publishing 18:29:39 -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swbp-wg/2006Mar/0007.html Evan's review 18:30:31 -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swbp-wg/2006Mar/0009.html Jeff's response to Evan's comments 18:31:17 PROPOSE to publish http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/BestPractices/XSCH/xsch-sw-20060127/ as a Working Group Note 18:31:47 Guus: did we give sufficient notice on the agenda of this motion? 18:32:07 Ralph: we sheduled this meeting last time with the expectation we would have the reviewer's comments 18:32:22 RESOLVED to publish http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/BestPractices/XSCH/xsch-sw-20060127/ as a Working Group Note 18:32:33 ACTION: Ralph to publish http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/BestPractices/XSCH/xsch-sw-20060127/ as a Working Group Note 18:33:20 DavidW: any other documents from XSCH TF? 18:33:22 Jeff: no 18:34:00 RESOLVED: XSCH TF is closed with thanks to Jeremy and Jeff 18:34:14 Topic: 3.5 VM - Vocabulary Management 18:35:10 [PENDING] ACTION: Tom find a place for the footnote on "simplest" recipe [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/02/20-swbp-minutes.html#action16] 18:35:20 Ralph: Tom wants to talk about this before making a change 18:35:30 -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swbp-wg/2006Mar/0008.html [VM] Action to add 303-redirect reference 18:35:37 zakim, unmute me 18:35:37 aliman should no longer be muted 18:36:15 ralph: re both rdfhtml and vmtf ... the docs we want to publish are still in the pipeline, hope to be done within a few days ... 18:37:14 re rdf/a, we discovered semantics of rdf lists, unordered lists are like rdf:bag, ordered lists are like rdf:seq, navigation bag like rdf:alt ... 18:37:26 +DBooth 18:37:38 so we proposed adding this to the rdf/a semantics, as syntactic sugar for constructing these, decided to proceed ... 18:37:43 q+ re bags etc 18:37:51 q+ to talk about re bags etc 18:38:24 ... html wg expected to have published ??? last week ... but not published yet. Authoritative spec of RDF/A will be there. 18:39:01 ... productive discussion of rdf/a at htmlwg last week, mostly discussed marketing and educational activities now that we're settled on the design ... 18:39:54 also from discussion last week it's clear there's a lot of interest in xhtml 1.1 module for rdf/a ... tf had this on the back burner ... 18:40:05 danbri has joined #swbp 18:40:20 in recent discussions steve pemberton was opinion you can't do enough of rdf/a under constraints of xhtml 1.1 modullarisation ... 18:40:49 he's now changed his opinion, so task force resolved to take up this work item and actively look into xhtml 1.1 module for some subset of rdf/a ... 18:41:23 mark birbeck has action to do first draft ... a couple of issues we're looking into. This is a new item we had expected to defer, but based on feedback from last week we're going to do more quickly. 18:41:29 guus: timing? 18:42:05 ralph: this tf is meeting weekly, mark did not give eta for his draft, but hope to have discussed how much of rdf/a can be put into xhtml 1.1 module within 2 weeks. 18:42:14 guus: publication of html wg or swbp wg? 18:42:59 ralph: still expectation that normative spec will come from html wg. html wg charter is up for renewal (along with swbp) not yet clear that rdf/a module is not in html wg charter, but it can now be added to html wg charter. 18:43:19 [PENDING] ACTION: Ralph to publish RDF/A document [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/02/06-swbp-minutes.html#action23] 18:43:23 zakim, unmute me 18:43:23 aliman should no longer be muted 18:44:06 ralph: in case the wg is not aware, a rough draft of semantic web activity charter was sent to AC on friday 24th feb ... 18:44:23 that draft notes several questions for the A/C before the final version ... 18:44:35 one question is where should the rdf/a work continue? 18:44:53 ...exoectation that it will continue, but 24/3 draft does not say where. 18:44:58 dave: informal indications? 18:45:32 Topic: 3.7 ADTF - Applications and Demos 18:45:36 ralph: encourage wg particpants to encourage their a/c reps to express opinion. 18:46:00 ack aliman 18:46:00 aliman, you wanted to talk about re bags etc 18:46:13 Alistair: everytime I've mentioned rdf:Bag or rdf:Seq people have said 'no!' 18:46:25 ... how widely has the idea of including this in RDF/A been considered? 18:46:37 ... I understand there are problems with these when merging RDF data 18:46:50 ... in SKOS we've decided to stay away from these 18:47:48 Ralph: concern noted. The HTML TF believes the RDF semantics are identical to the HTML semantics 18:49:09 ... rdf Collections do not have the semantics of being closed w.r.t. a single document, nor does HTML 18:49:29 DavidW: I concur with Alistair that there's been some nay-saying over the years 18:49:55 ... but I also concur that RDF and HTML seem to be in agreement on whether these are closed w.r.t. a single document 18:50:11 Alistair: Bijan Parsia and Pat Hayes may have opinions on this 18:50:19 Topic: 3.7 ADTF - Applications and Demos 18:50:33 http://www.w3.org/2006/03/03-swbp-minutes.html#item02 18:50:36 Libby: some discussion last Friday 18:50:55 ... summary is that we now have 40 items listed in DOAP on the page 18:51:05 ... this page has been quite successful 18:51:21 ... I took an action on Friday to update the description on the ADTF page 18:51:24 (relatively speaking :) 18:51:36 Topic: 3.8 RDFTM - RDF/Topic Maps Interoperability 18:51:41 (no representative) 18:51:43 zakim, mute me 18:51:43 Libby_Miller should now be muted 18:52:02 -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swbp-wg/2006Feb/0148.html Minutes of 21 Feb editor's meeting 18:52:18 DavidW: are we comfortable that this TF can move along? 18:52:35 Guus: my expectation was that they would produce the document that we currently have and anything else is a bonus 18:52:42 DavidW: should we close the task force now then? 18:52:53 Guus: they're still working on more, so let's let them proceed 18:54:50 Ralph: we talked about each of the TFs on Friday; see those meeting records 18:55:02 ... personally, I think RDFTM is a candidate for an Incubator Group 18:55:18 Topic: 3.9 Tutorial Page 18:55:27 I'd like to point to 18:55:31 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swbp-wg/2006Feb/0131.html 18:55:41 I set up a poll forum 18:55:59 noone has looked at it yet, so no comments on the value of our ressources on the tutorial page 18:56:00 DavidW: there has not been much input to Benjamin's form 18:56:17 indeed David 18:56:22 -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swbp-wg/2006Feb/0131.html Tutorials page quality assessment 18:56:39 DavidW: everyone please help Benjamin get feedback 18:56:43 http://akengro.t1hosting.co.uk/w3ctut/index.php 18:56:52 pages _should_ all be linked (checked last week) so I figure 404 error is temporary 18:57:16 DavidW: I've gone through a few of the pages myself; more pages should be checked 18:57:39 If you want to pop your opinion on the pages you checked feel free to 18:57:52 will do 18:57:55 either vote / post if there is something specific to say about a page 18:58:05 "pop" means "enter"? 18:58:18 Topic: 3.10 SE - Software Engineering 18:58:19 write down, sorry ;) 18:58:22 [PENDING] ACTION: RalphS will make a publication request for the SE Primer [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/01/23-swbp-minutes.html#action24] 18:58:45 Ralph: we have Director's approval to publish 18:59:04 Topic: 3.11 MM - Multimedia Annotation 18:59:28 Raphael: two telecons ago the TF agreed that the Image Annotaton document is ready for WD if Mike Uschold does not object 18:59:39 ... Mike sent comments and I answered them today 19:00:31 the answer of mike comments are ni http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swbp-wg/2006Mar/0018.html and in http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swbp-wg/2006Mar/0019.html 19:01:50 http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/BestPractices/MM/image_annotation.html 19:02:00 Raphael: what about the internal links in image_annotation? 19:02:36 ... and links to the second editor's draft 19:02:43 Ralph: where are the links to the second editor's draft? 19:03:22 href="resources/interop.html" 19:04:49 Ralph: we won't be able to publish a Technical Report that references other editors drafts in any significant way 19:05:49 Raphael: two telecons ago the WG agreed to publish contingent on Mike's approval 19:06:01 -> http://www.w3.org/2006/02/06-swbp-minutes.html#action27 RESOLUTION: To move the MM doc to WD contingent on Mike's approval of changes. 19:06:55 -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swbp-wg/2006Feb/0093.html [MM] Image Annotation for the Semantic web - Review [Mike] 19:07:26 DavidW: have we checked the copyright permission on all the images? 19:07:35 Raphael: only one image was a problem and we removed it 19:07:42 ... we have explicit permission on the others 19:08:03 ... these are archived in the WG mail archive 19:08:39 Raphael: we've asked for another TF member to have write access to the TF pages 19:08:58 [sorry, got called away] 19:09:47 The NASA image should be explicitly attributed to NASA in compliance with http://grin.hq.nasa.gov/copyright.html 19:11:28 ... this person would update the pages after the WG closes 19:12:14 Ralph: the preference at this time is to have the WG materials frozen when the WG closes and for new work to be done under the charter of an Incubator Group 19:12:49 ... if the Incubator Group proposal is submitted within the next month, I think it is highly probable that there will be an XG approved before the end of this WG 19:13:17 ACTION: Raphael confirm that the license message from NASA has been sent to the public WG list 19:13:47 DavidW: even with the license email, the way I interpret the copyright statement we must explicitly attribute the image 19:14:05 ... just add the words "we got this from NASA" 19:14:39 ... the NASA copyright says "NASA must be acknowleged as the source of this image" 19:14:42 -Guus 19:15:01 ACTION: Raphael add NASA attribution text to the Image Annotation editor's draft 19:15:55 ACTION: Ralph work with Raphael to publish http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/BestPractices/MM/image_annotation.html as a Working Draft 19:16:31 DavidW: what are the plans to finish this to Note by 1 May? 19:16:44 Raphael: we do hope to get to Note by 1 May 19:16:50 sorry. my telephone connection is gone 19:17:02 ... there is still a lot of work to do on second document on vocabularies for annotating multimedia 19:17:14 ... TF is not clear on how much we can do by the end of the WG 19:17:23 ... we have a telecon scheduled for next week to discuss 19:17:41 suggest an action for chairs to prepare list of expected outcomes of SWBP for next telecon 19:17:46 ... so I won't guarantee that the second document will even be ready for review by the end of the WG 19:18:20 ACTION: David and Guus prepare a list of expected outcomes of SWBP for 20 March telecon 19:18:39 [adjourned] 19:18:41 -Libby_Miller 19:18:42 thanks dave, bye all 19:18:45 bye all 19:18:45 -DBooth 19:18:46 -David_Wood 19:18:46 -JeffP 19:18:47 cheers! 19:18:48 bye all 19:18:48 -Raphael 19:18:48 bye 19:18:50 -aliman 19:18:50 rrsagent, please make this record public 19:18:53 -Ralph 19:18:54 SW_BPD()1:00PM has ended 19:18:55 Attendees were Libby_Miller, Ralph, Alistair_Miles, JeffP, David_Wood, aliman, Raphael, Guus, DBooth 19:19:02 rrsagent, please draft minutes 19:19:02 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2006/03/06-swbp-minutes.html RalphS 19:42:57 danbri has joined #swbp 21:20:33 Zakim has left #swbp 21:20:43 rrsagent, bye 21:20:43 I see 8 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2006/03/06-swbp-actions.rdf : 21:20:43 ACTION: Guus remind Giorgos, Fabien, and Phil that their review of Semantic Interoperability editor's draft should now commence [1] 21:20:43 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/03/06-swbp-irc#T18-21-07 21:20:43 ACTION: Guus check with Elisa and Deb on which remaining OEP notes are feasible to complete by 1 May [2] 21:20:43 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/03/06-swbp-irc#T18-23-04 21:20:43 ACTION: Benjamin review WordNet editor's draft [3] 21:20:43 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/03/06-swbp-irc#T18-25-01 21:20:43 ACTION: Ralph to publish http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/BestPractices/XSCH/xsch-sw-20060127/ as a Working Group Note [4] 21:20:43 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/03/06-swbp-irc#T18-32-33 21:20:43 ACTION: Raphael confirm that the license message from NASA has been sent to the public WG list [5] 21:20:43 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/03/06-swbp-irc#T19-13-17 21:20:43 ACTION: Raphael add NASA attribution text to the Image Annotation editor's draft [6] 21:20:43 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/03/06-swbp-irc#T19-15-01 21:20:43 ACTION: Ralph work with Raphael to publish http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/BestPractices/MM/image_annotation.html as a Working Draft [7] 21:20:43 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/03/06-swbp-irc#T19-15-55 21:20:43 ACTION: David and Guus prepare a list of expected outcomes of SWBP for 20 March telecon [8] 21:20:43 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/03/06-swbp-irc#T19-18-20