15:49:10 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #rif
15:49:10 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2006/02/14-rif-irc
15:51:32 <PhilippeB> PhilippeB has joined #rif
15:51:51 <Francois> Francois has joined #rif
15:53:11 <josb> josb has joined #rif
15:53:12 <patranja> patranja has joined #rif
15:53:29 <ChrisW> hi harold
15:54:49 <Guizhen> Guizhen has joined #RIF
15:55:30 <Allen> Allen has joined #rif
15:55:47 <csma> csma has joined #rif
15:56:07 <Zakim> SW_RIF()11:00AM has now started
15:56:14 <Zakim> +??P10
15:56:35 <Zakim> -??P10
15:56:36 <Zakim> SW_RIF()11:00AM has ended
15:56:37 <Zakim> Attendees were 
15:57:27 <Zakim> SW_RIF()11:00AM has now started
15:57:35 <Zakim> +??P10
15:57:46 <aharth> aharth has joined #rif
15:57:47 <Zakim> +[NRCC]
15:57:56 <Francois>  zakim, +??P0 is me.
15:57:56 <Zakim> sorry, Francois, I do not recognize a party named '+??P0'
15:57:57 <MinsuJang> MinsuJang has joined #rif
15:58:12 <Harold> zakim, [NRCC] is me
15:58:12 <Zakim> +Harold; got it
15:58:20 <Zakim> + +1.813.874.aaaa
15:58:22 <Francois> zakim, +??P10 is me.
15:58:22 <Zakim> sorry, Francois, I do not recognize a party named '+??P10'
15:58:30 <LeoraMorgenstern> LeoraMorgenstern has joined #rif
15:58:44 <csma> zakim, aaaa is me
15:58:44 <Zakim> +csma; got it
15:59:04 <holger> holger has joined #rif
15:59:16 <csma> zakim, P10 is franc
15:59:16 <Zakim> sorry, csma, I do not recognize a party named 'P10'
15:59:28 <csma> zakim, ??P10 is fran
15:59:30 <Zakim> +fran; got it
15:59:32 <Francois> zakim, ??P10 is me.
15:59:34 <Zakim> +PaulaP
15:59:35 <Zakim> I already had ??P10 as fran, Francois
15:59:36 <Zakim> +??P14
15:59:48 <Zakim> +??P22
15:59:50 <csma> zakim, fran is françois
15:59:57 <Zakim> + +1.408.460.aabb - is perhaps josb
15:59:59 <Zakim> +françois; got it
15:59:59 <AxelPolleres> AxelPolleres has joined #rif
16:00:09 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
16:00:09 <Guizhen> zakim, aabb is me
16:00:12 <DonaldC> DonaldC has joined #rif
16:00:17 <LeoraMorgenstern> zakim, ??P22 is probably me
16:00:20 <csma> zakim, who is on the call?
16:00:22 <JeffPan> JeffPan has joined #rif
16:00:25 <Guizhen> zakim, who is on the phone?
16:00:27 <GiorgosStoilos> GiorgosStoilos has joined #rif
16:00:29 <Zakim> sorry, Guizhen, I do not recognize a party named 'aabb'
16:00:39 <msintek> msintek has joined #rif
16:00:44 <igor> igor has joined #rif
16:00:45 <Zakim> +LeoraMorgenstern?; got it
16:00:46 <IanH> IanH has joined #rif
16:00:49 <Zakim> On the phone I see françois, Harold, csma, PaulaP (muted), josb?, LeoraMorgenstern?, josb, MinsuJang
16:00:51 <Zakim> On the phone I see françois, Harold, csma, PaulaP (muted), josb?, LeoraMorgenstern?, josb, MinsuJang
16:00:51 <Guizhen> zakim, 1.408.460.aabb is me.
16:00:57 <Zakim> -josb?
16:01:02 <csma> zakim, françois is Francois
16:01:05 <Zakim> +??P41
16:01:07 <Zakim> sorry, Guizhen, I do not recognize a party named '1.408.460.aabb'
16:01:11 <LeoraMorgenstern> zakim, mute me
16:01:17 <JeffPan> zakim, ??P41 is me
16:01:19 <Zakim> +Francois; got it
16:01:23 <DaveReynolds> DaveReynolds has joined #rif
16:01:29 <Zakim> +Sandro
16:01:33 <Zakim> LeoraMorgenstern? should now be muted
16:01:36 <Francois> zakim, mute me.
16:01:39 <Zakim> +AxelPolleres
16:01:41 <Zakim> +JeffPan; got it
16:01:43 <Zakim> -Sandro
16:01:49 <Zakim> Francois should now be muted
16:01:51 <Zakim> +[IBM]
16:01:52 <ChrisW> zakim, [ibm] is temporarily me
16:01:55 <Zakim> + +43.512.507.9aacc
16:02:05 <Zakim> +??P51
16:02:07 <Zakim> +Michael_Sintek
16:02:08 <csma> Zakim, csma is csma+PaulV
16:02:09 <Zakim> +Sandro
16:02:13 <Zakim> +ChrisW; got it
16:02:15 <Zakim> +franconi
16:02:17 <Zakim> +franconi.a
16:02:21 <Darko> Darko has joined #rif
16:02:26 <Allen> zakim, mute me
16:02:29 <Zakim> +csma+PaulV; got it
16:02:37 <Zakim> +Allen_Ginsberg
16:02:41 <Zakim> +Andreas_Harth
16:02:46 <Allen> zakim, mute me
16:02:47 <Zakim> +??P57
16:02:51 <Zakim> Allen_Ginsberg should now be muted
16:02:51 <PhilippeB> Zakim, +43.512.507.9aacc is me
16:02:58 <johnhall> johnhall has joined #rif
16:03:03 <PhilippeB> Zakim, mute me
16:03:10 <aharth> zakim, mute Andreas_Harth
16:03:11 <Zakim> +Andreas_Harth.a (was Andreas_Harth)
16:03:16 <Guizhen> zakim, +1.408.460.aabb is me.
16:03:17 <Zakim> +David_Hirtle
16:03:21 <Zakim> Allen_Ginsberg was already muted, Allen
16:03:25 <Zakim> +GiorgosStoilos
16:03:27 <aharth> zakim, Andreas_Harth is me
16:03:29 <Zakim> sorry, PhilippeB, I do not recognize a party named '+43.512.507.9aacc'
16:03:31 <Zakim> -??P57
16:03:33 <sandro> sandro has changed the topic to: Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rif-wg/2006Feb/0166.html
16:03:34 <holger> zakim, mute UIBK
16:03:35 <Zakim> sorry, PhilippeB, I do not see a party named 'PhilippeB'
16:03:38 <Guizhen> zakim, mute me.
16:03:39 <Zakim> +csma+PaulV.a
16:03:40 <pfps> pfps has joined #rif
16:03:41 <aharth> zakim, mute me
16:03:49 <Zakim> Andreas_Harth.a should now be muted
16:03:52 <ChrisW> zakim, who is on the phone?
16:03:59 <Zakim> sorry, Guizhen, I do not recognize a party named '+1.408.460.aabb'
16:04:03 <Darko> Zakim, 9aacc is me
16:04:07 <Zakim> +aharth; got it
16:04:13 <Zakim> sorry, holger, I do not see a party named 'UIBK'
16:04:14 <PhilippeB> Zakim 43.512.507.9aacc is me
16:04:15 <Zakim> sorry, Guizhen, I do not see a party named 'Guizhen'
16:04:19 <Zakim> aharth was already muted, aharth
16:04:23 <Zakim> +??P62
16:04:25 <Zakim> +??P63
16:04:28 <DonaldC> zakim, ??p57 is me
16:04:29 <Zakim> On the phone I see Francois (muted), Harold, csma+PaulV, PaulaP (muted), LeoraMorgenstern? (muted), josb, MinsuJang (muted), JeffPan, AxelPolleres (muted), ChrisW, IanH, msintek
16:04:34 <Zakim> ... (muted), josb?, Sandro, franconi, franconi.a, Allen_Ginsberg (muted), aharth (muted), David_Hirtle (muted), GiorgosStoilos, csma+PaulV.a, ??P62, ??P63
16:04:37 <Zakim> +Peter_PS
16:04:39 <Zakim> +??P64
16:04:41 <Zakim> +Evan_Wallace
16:04:42 <dieterfensel> dieterfensel has joined #rif
16:04:43 <Zakim> -??P62
16:04:45 <Zakim> sorry, Darko, I do not recognize a party named '9aacc'
16:04:45 <Darko> Zakim, P62 is me
16:04:46 <Massimo> Massimo has joined #rif
16:04:52 <Zakim> I already had ??P57 as Peter_PS, DonaldC
16:04:55 <DonaldC> zakim, mute me
16:04:58 <Zakim> sorry, Darko, I do not recognize a party named 'P62'
16:05:01 <Francois> Francois has joined #rif
16:05:04 <Zakim> sorry, DonaldC, I do not see a party named 'DonaldC'
16:05:08 <Zakim> -??P64
16:05:12 <Zakim> +Igor_Mozetic
16:05:13 <Francois> zakim, who is here.
16:05:14 <Zakim> Francois, you need to end that query with '?'
16:05:20 <igor> zakim, mute me
16:05:20 <Zakim> Igor_Mozetic should now be muted
16:05:23 <Darko> Zakim, P64 is me
16:05:23 <Zakim> sorry, Darko, I do not recognize a party named 'P64'
16:05:25 <Francois> zakim, who is here?
16:05:26 <Zakim> +??P67
16:05:30 <Zakim> On the phone I see Francois (muted), Harold, csma+PaulV, PaulaP (muted), LeoraMorgenstern? (muted), josb, MinsuJang (muted), JeffPan, AxelPolleres (muted), ChrisW, IanH, msintek
16:05:35 <Zakim> ... (muted), josb?, Sandro, franconi, franconi.a, Allen_Ginsberg (muted), aharth (muted), David_Hirtle (muted), GiorgosStoilos, csma+PaulV.a, ??P63, Peter_PS, Evan_Wallace,
16:05:40 <Zakim> ... Igor_Mozetic (muted), ??P67
16:05:42 <Zakim> On IRC I see Francois, Massimo, dieterfensel, pfps, johnhall, Darko, DaveReynolds, IanH, igor, msintek, GiorgosStoilos, JeffPan, DonaldC, AxelPolleres, holger, LeoraMorgenstern,
16:05:51 <Darko> I am here
16:05:54 <Zakim> ... MinsuJang, aharth, csma, Allen, Guizhen, PaulaP, josb, PhilippeB, RRSAgent, Zakim, sandro, David_Hirtle, Harold, ChrisW, mdean
16:05:59 <Zakim> +??P64
16:05:59 <MichaelKifer> MichaelKifer has joined #rif
16:05:59 <Darko> but not logged yet
16:06:03 <Darko> yes
16:06:08 <Mala> Mala has joined #rif
16:06:09 <Zakim> -josb?
16:06:10 <Darko> yes
16:06:14 <Darko> +Darko
16:06:30 <EvanWallace> EvanWallace has joined #rif
16:06:57 <pfps> pfps has joined #rif
16:07:07 <Zakim> +??P73
16:07:11 <Zakim> -csma+PaulV.a
16:07:19 <Zakim> +Mike_Dean
16:07:20 <PhilippeB> Zakim, ??P73 is me
16:07:21 <Zakim> +Mala_Mehrotra
16:07:27 <Zakim> +Michael_Kifer
16:07:28 <Darko> Zakim, +??P73 is me
16:07:33 <Zakim> +PhilippeB; got it
16:07:39 <Zakim> sorry, Darko, I do not recognize a party named '+??P73'
16:07:43 <Massimo> Massimo has joined #rif
16:07:44 <PhilippeB> Zakim, mute me
16:07:47 <ChrisW> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rif-wg/2006Feb/att-0043/rif-minutes-2006-02-07.html
16:07:49 <Zakim> PhilippeB should now be muted
16:08:16 <csma> +1
16:08:18 <PaulaP> +1
16:08:20 <johnhall> zakim mute me
16:08:26 <Zakim> +Massimo
16:08:30 <MichaelKifer> zakim, mute me
16:08:30 <Zakim> Michael_Kifer should now be muted
16:08:40 <Massimo> Zakim, mute me
16:08:40 <Zakim> Massimo should now be muted
16:08:43 <JosDeRoo> JosDeRoo has joined #rif
16:08:56 <Zakim> -??P67
16:09:04 <Darko> F2F meeting on 27th and 28th 
16:09:09 <Zakim> +csma+PaulV.a
16:09:22 <Darko> Zakim, -??P67 is me
16:09:22 <Zakim> sorry, Darko, I do not recognize a party named '-??P67'
16:09:53 <Zakim> +Jos_De_Roo
16:10:05 <GiorgosStoilos> zakim, ??P67 is Darko
16:10:05 <Zakim> I already had ??P67 as csma+PaulV.a, GiorgosStoilos
16:10:06 <Harold> Tech Plenary DL: 2006-02-19 before Boston midnight
16:10:51 <JosDeRoo> Zakim, mute me
16:10:51 <Zakim> Jos_De_Roo should now be muted
16:11:01 <Harold> But March 1st day seems to have a 350 participants limit (1st come, 1st served)
16:11:29 <Zakim> -Igor_Mozetic
16:12:32 <Zakim> +Igor_Mozetic
16:12:38 <igor> zakim, mute me
16:12:38 <Zakim> Igor_Mozetic should now be muted
16:12:59 <sandro> pfps, you are registered, BTW.
16:13:11 <sandro> (you were the first person to register, after me.  :-)
16:13:21 <Darko> csma: no particular interest for liaison with ISO IEC Joint Task Force 1, SC 32, Working Group 2
16:13:25 <PaulV> PaulV has joined #rif
16:13:43 <msintek> everyone can view the page with all registrations, BTW: http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35125/TP2006/results
16:13:46 <Darko> Sandro could you set me as scribe
16:13:47 <pfps> yes, but of course that means that it was so long ago that I have forgotten whether I had a positive response.
16:14:05 <Darko> ACTION: csma to ask ISO whether liaison is worthwhile for ISO IEC Joint Task Force 1, SC 32, Working Group 2: Metadata Standards US national body is ANSI L8 might be interesting for liaison. See [http://metadata-standards.org/] [DONE]
16:14:16 <JosDeRoo> Zakim, unmute me
16:14:16 <Zakim> Jos_De_Roo should no longer be muted
16:14:26 <sandro> scribe: Darko
16:14:37 <sandro> rrsagent, make minutes
16:14:37 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2006/02/14-rif-minutes.html sandro
16:14:56 <JosDeRoo> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-archive/2006Feb/0014.html
16:15:17 <sandro> Title: RIFWG
16:15:23 <sandro> Chair: ChrisWelty
16:15:37 <Massimo> Zakim, unmute me
16:15:37 <Zakim> Massimo should no longer be muted
16:16:35 <Darko> Massimo: to send the URL
16:16:36 <Massimo> xquery update draft: http://www.w3.org/XML/Group/xsl-query-specs/xquery-updates/xquery-update.html
16:16:37 <Allen> zakim, unmute me
16:16:37 <Zakim> Allen_Ginsberg should no longer be muted
16:16:54 <Massimo> xquery update use cases: http://www.w3.org/XML/Group/xsl-query-specs/xquery-updates/updates-use-cases.html
16:16:58 <Massimo> Zakim, mute me
16:16:58 <Zakim> Massimo should now be muted
16:17:20 <ChrisW> zakim, who is on the phone?
16:17:20 <Zakim> On the phone I see Francois (muted), Harold, csma+PaulV, PaulaP (muted), LeoraMorgenstern? (muted), josb (muted), MinsuJang (muted), JeffPan, AxelPolleres (muted), ChrisW, IanH
16:17:23 <Zakim> ... (muted), msintek (muted), Sandro, franconi, franconi.a, Allen_Ginsberg, aharth (muted), David_Hirtle (muted), GiorgosStoilos, ??P63, Peter_PS, Evan_Wallace, DaveReynolds
16:17:27 <Zakim> ... (muted), PhilippeB (muted), Mike_Dean, Mala_Mehrotra, Michael_Kifer (muted), Massimo (muted), csma+PaulV.a, Jos_De_Roo, Igor_Mozetic (muted)
16:17:39 <johnhall> Can't get on the phone - 'busy' on land line, 'forbidden number' on Skype
16:17:46 <Darko> Zakim, ??P63 is me
16:17:46 <Zakim> +Darko; got it
16:17:56 <Darko> scribe Darko
16:17:58 <Harold> q+
16:19:11 <sandro> http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wg/wiki/UCR
16:19:33 <sandro> q?
16:19:34 <Zakim> +csma+PaulV.aa
16:19:36 <sandro> ack Harold
16:19:45 <Darko> who is talking?
16:19:58 <ChrisW> now its sandro
16:20:14 <JosDeRoo> Zakim, mute me
16:20:14 <Zakim> Jos_De_Roo should now be muted
16:20:17 <DonaldC> +q
16:20:25 <DonaldC> q
16:20:35 <DonaldC> q+
16:21:09 <johnhall> I'm now dialed in, but haven't shown up on irc
16:21:58 <sandro> q?
16:22:01 <sandro> ack DonaldC 
16:22:29 <dieter> dieter has joined #rif
16:22:42 <sandro> We should be talking about this location: http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wg/wiki/UCR/Interchange_of_Human-oriented_Business_Rules
16:24:12 <Harold> q+
16:24:17 <csma> +1
16:24:24 <PaulaP> q?
16:24:49 <sandro> ack Harold 
16:24:50 <GiorgosStoilos> GiorgosStoilos has joined #rif
16:24:53 <csma> ack harold
16:25:01 <sandro> +1
16:25:05 <PaulaP> +1
16:25:07 <csma> +1
16:25:34 <sandro> q?
16:25:51 <Darko> Chris Welty will come up with another example narrative for a RichKR use case [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/02/07-rif-minutes.html#action07] [CONTINUED]
16:26:09 <Darko> ACTION: Christian will propose another scenario for the publication use case [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/02/07-rif-minutes.html#action08] [DONE]
16:26:27 <Zakim> -Evan_Wallace
16:26:41 <Darko> ACTION: Frank will do the scenarios for information integration with Ed Barkmeyer assisting [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/02/07-rif-minutes.html#action10] [CONTINUED]
16:26:45 <Mala> Mala has joined #rif
16:26:49 <LeoraMorgenstern> zakim, unmute me
16:26:49 <Zakim> LeoraMorgenstern? should no longer be muted
16:26:53 <LeoraMorgenstern> q+
16:26:53 <csma> link to mail indicating my action is done http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rif-wg/2006Feb/0164.html
16:26:58 <Darko> ACTION: Leora, JeffP to review and report on human oriented rules section of UCR, sending e-mail by friday. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/02/07-rif-minutes.html#action05] [DONE]
16:27:08 <csma> ack leora
16:28:31 <LeoraMorgenstern> zakim, mute me
16:28:31 <Zakim> LeoraMorgenstern? should now be muted
16:28:34 <Darko> ACTION: leora and Jeff: to review the detailed scenario 
16:28:50 <Darko> ACTION: Paul Vincent will do the detailed scenario for "Interoperability between rule engines" [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/02/07-rif-minutes.html#action11] [CONTINUED]
16:29:36 <Darko> ACTION: csma will incite this broader discussion on mailing list. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/02/07-rif-minutes.html#action14] [CONTINUED]
16:29:59 <Darko> sorry say it again
16:30:20 <csma> The action is about data accesss
16:30:26 <AxelPolleres> s/this broader/data access/
16:31:03 <Darko> ACTION: Paula to copy all requirements from original use cases into a single place, removing duplicates and pointing back to originals [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/02/07-rif-minutes.html#action16] 
16:31:03 <Darko>  [DONE]
16:31:25 <Darko> ACTION: csma:The action is about data accesss
16:31:46 <EvanWallace> Accidentally disconnected.  Can't reconnect.  Getting fast busy signal.
16:31:49 <Darko> ACTION: Donald, Said, John: provide scenario for human-oriented use case showing where RIF is used [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/02/07-rif-minutes.html#action13] [DONE]
16:32:43 <Darko> volontiers for reviewing section 2 of UCR needed
16:33:00 <josb> s/volontiers/volunteers/
16:33:06 <Zakim> +Evan_Wallace
16:33:27 <LeoraMorgenstern> q+
16:33:38 <LeoraMorgenstern> zakim, unmute me
16:33:38 <Zakim> LeoraMorgenstern? should no longer be muted
16:35:00 <PaulaP> q?
16:35:11 <Darko> ACTION: for everyone to read the UCR document and to check whether something is missing
16:35:18 <csma> ack leora
16:35:41 <ChrisW> http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wg/wiki/UCR
16:36:08 <sandro> Partial draft of poll, how it might look: http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/38457/ucrwd/
16:36:28 <Darko> leora: the UCR document should be more uniformed
16:36:49 <sandro> s/uniformed/uniform in writing style
16:37:14 <sandro> q?
16:39:37 <EvanWallace> +1 on not voting on sections
16:39:48 <csma> +1 on not voting on sections
16:40:08 <AxelPolleres> q+
16:41:09 <dieter> q+
16:41:15 <sandro> q?
16:41:29 <csma> ack axel
16:41:30 <sandro> ack AxelPolleres 
16:41:59 <csma> q+
16:42:34 <csma> ack dieter
16:42:40 <ChrisW> q?
16:42:48 <AxelPolleres> Zakim, mute me
16:42:49 <Zakim> AxelPolleres should now be muted
16:42:57 <Darko> AxelPolleres: will the voting be about the structure review
16:43:16 <dieter> sorry I was muted
16:43:30 <AxelPolleres> +1 got it csma!
16:44:11 <csma> ack csma
16:44:27 <csma> q+
16:44:36 <AxelPolleres> I think all these questions should be collected and go into the straw poll for comments, right?
16:44:53 <csma> good point, axel
16:45:17 <csma> q-
16:45:37 <sandro> q+
16:45:47 <sandro> ack sandro
16:45:53 <csma> q+
16:46:59 <Darko> sandro: The UC document will not defined what are requirements for the first working draft
16:47:44 <Zakim> + +43.512.507.aadd
16:47:57 <sandro> s/The UC document will not defined what are requirements for the first working draft/I don't think we have time to figure out the Requirements section in time for the first WD.   So the 1st WD should be just Use Cases.   With a clear note that this is not all in Phase 1/
16:49:05 <josb> +1
16:49:16 <josb> no objection here
16:49:19 <sandro> PROPOSED: Publish first public WD of UCR *without* a Requirements section
16:49:34 <csma> +1
16:49:38 <Darko> UCR to be published without Requirements part, yes or not?
16:50:08 <Darko> it will be published
16:50:10 <sandro> RESOLVED: Publish first public WD of UCR *without* a Requirements section
16:50:22 <csma> PROPOSED: Decision on phase 1/phase 2 to be made on tha basis of requirements
16:50:30 <MarkusK> MarkusK has joined #rif
16:51:43 <Darko> Chris: what is in Ph 1/2 based on requirements?
16:52:32 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
16:52:52 <csma> PROPOSED: First WD does not have decision about phase 1/phase 2
16:53:03 <sandro> PROPOSED: F1st public WD of UCR will not reflect decisions about what's in Phase 1 vs what's in Phase 2.
16:53:15 <Darko> Chris: first w. draft will not take decision what is in the Ph1 and Ph2?
16:53:21 <csma> +1
16:53:23 <Harold> +1
16:53:25 <PaulaP> +1
16:53:27 <sandro> RESOLVED: 1st public WD of UCR will not reflect decisions about what's in Phase 1 vs what's in Phase 2.
16:53:29 <csma> q?
16:53:33 <csma> q-
16:54:22 <Darko> who is talking?
16:54:37 <Mala> +1
16:54:44 <sandro> Darko, it's Allen
16:55:53 <Darko> csma: the design goal should be descussed F2F 
16:57:38 <Darko> ...questions on the design goals should be proposed on the mailing list
16:58:23 <AxelPolleres> Could we, in the straw poll, also suggest people to point to related mail discussions to particular sections/aspects?
16:59:50 <PaulaP> q+
16:59:57 <Darko> ACTION: Allen: start email discussion about design goals (eg disjunctive heads in the rules and etc.)
17:00:50 <Allen> Action: compile a list of design goal questions for listing in a section of the UC&R draft
17:01:01 <csma> Darko, the action on Allen is to compile a list of design goal issues, rather than start an email discussion
17:01:05 <Darko> PaulaP: DG are related to Requirements, should be reviewed
17:01:19 <AxelPolleres> I could review the requirements draft.
17:01:20 <josb> I can review
17:01:22 <dieter> dieter volunteers
17:01:33 <Darko> ACTION: Allen: is to compile a list of design goal issues, rather than start an email discussion
17:01:42 <PaulaP> http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wg/wiki/RIFUCR_-_List_of_Classified_Requirements_%28with_Duplicate_Elimination%29
17:02:16 <PaulaP> this is the list with duplicate elimination
17:02:31 <PaulaP> +1 on csma's comment
17:02:37 <David_Hirtle> (that link is also accessible from the UCR Reqs section: http://www.w3.org/2005/rules/wg/wiki/UCR/Requirements)
17:02:50 <Darko> ACTION: Axel, Dieter, Jos Harold to review the Requirements and comment them
17:02:56 <Allen> zakim, mute me
17:02:58 <Zakim> Allen_Ginsberg should now be muted
17:03:20 <Darko> ACTION: Chris to start email discussion about what issues are "fuzzy" wrt phase 1 & 2 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/02/07-rif-minutes.html#action18]  [CONTINUED]
17:03:26 <ChrisW> q?
17:03:44 <Darko> Topic: Classification
17:03:48 <PaulaP> q-
17:04:43 <Harold> q+
17:04:50 <Francois> +1 same sytax, semantics, etc. as metaödata
17:05:39 <Francois> this is pure syntax, Harold. Never mind in the 1st place!!!!
17:06:04 <josb> +1 agree with ChrisW and Francois
17:06:21 <csma> ack harold
17:06:57 <Francois> +1 on having a email discussion on this. There are a few aspects to define. 
17:07:04 <Mala> Mala has joined #rif
17:07:32 <Harold> Metadata and Metalevel are different!
17:07:41 <ChrisW> q?
17:07:52 <Darko> Topic: OWL+RDF Compatibility
17:10:26 <sandro> ChrisW: Should we view RDF and OWL as rule languages, which can be translated into RIF for interoperability with Rule Systems?
17:10:29 <Harold> q+
17:10:37 <Allen> zakim, unmute me
17:10:37 <Zakim> Allen_Ginsberg should no longer be muted
17:10:53 <DonaldC> q+
17:11:01 <Allen> zakim, mute me
17:11:01 <Zakim> Allen_Ginsberg should now be muted
17:11:23 <sandro> Dieter: the risk is that you dilute your concept of "rule language" -- it's fine, just don't start calling RDF or OWL "Rule Languages".
17:12:04 <sandro> acl Harold 
17:12:07 <sandro> ack Harold 
17:12:18 <sandro> Harold: We could call it KR for the Web, including RDF and OWL.   
17:12:36 <sandro> Harold: We need to be compatible with other KR languages
17:12:53 <sandro> ack DonaldC 
17:13:39 <sandro> DonaldC: OWL and RDF provide a Fact Base, but there is also the additional logic, which is sometimes rule-like.   But we don't need to call it a Rule Language, no.
17:13:56 <sandro> Harold: I agree.
17:14:42 <Zakim> -MinsuJang
17:14:46 <Allen> +q
17:14:50 <Allen> q+
17:14:55 <sandro> IanH: Think of RDF and OWL as not completely different from Rule Languages.  Compatibility between RIF and OWL/RDF is important.  Not in the Rich-KR Use Cases that OWL and RDF are being used in conjunction with Rules.
17:15:21 <csma> +1 to what Don said
17:15:43 <sandro> IanH: There doesn't seem to be a uniform view in the WG of what constitutes a Rule Language.    This stuff is all swrling around near fragments of FOL.
17:15:46 <ChrisW> q?
17:15:47 <csma> ack ian
17:15:54 <csma> ack allen
17:15:55 <Allen> zakim, unmute me
17:15:57 <Zakim> Allen_Ginsberg was not muted, Allen
17:17:29 <Harold> Oversimplifying: KRLang = OntologyLang + RuleLang --- OntologyLang = OWL, ... --- RuleLang = RIF, CL, RuleML, ...
17:18:46 <Darko> Allen: RIF could be used to interchange rules and ontologies together
17:18:54 <dieter> Imagine somebody wants to express the ontology inside a rule language (e.g., frame logic)?
17:19:19 <sandro> Christian: What's been done in OWL should be interchanged in OWL, not in RIF.    Don't translated OWL into RIF.
17:19:52 <dieter> you do not need to translate, you simply reuse OWL indetifiers
17:19:54 <sandro> +1 to Harold's view
17:20:04 <MichaelKifer> q+
17:20:16 <MichaelKifer> zakim, unmute me
17:20:16 <Zakim> Michael_Kifer should no longer be muted
17:20:48 <sandro> ChrisW: There are parts of what OWL does that might not be supported by some Rule Engine; do we want to help with that?
17:20:51 <Darko> ACTION: csma: to send an email about distinguishing roles between OWL and RIF 
17:20:54 <Allen> zakim, mute me
17:20:54 <Zakim> Allen_Ginsberg should now be muted
17:21:17 <Francois> +1 discussion on owl-rif connection
17:21:38 <GiorgosStoilos> +1 to Allen
17:21:42 <sandro> MichaelKifer: If we view RIF as a rule language on its own, then it makes sense to interop with OWL.   If RIF is just an interchange format, then it doesn't make sense to talk about interop with OWL, since the rule systems will do that.
17:21:54 <josb> In the interchanged rules, there might be references to OWL concepts
17:22:03 <AxelPolleres> If the rule head is an OWL fact again, you cannot separate concerns completely, at least we have to define what semantics for interop we adopt.
17:22:40 <GiorgosStoilos> s/to Allen/Michael
17:22:43 <sandro> Christian: What if one of the interoperating engines implements OWL and the other doesn't?
17:23:01 <IanH> zakim, unmute me
17:23:01 <Zakim> IanH should no longer be muted
17:23:08 <AxelPolleres> q+
17:23:15 <MichaelKifer> q-
17:23:34 <MichaelKifer> zakim, mute me
17:23:34 <Zakim> Michael_Kifer should now be muted
17:23:39 <Francois> What might well be a language without semantics? 
17:23:43 <sandro> IanH: I agree with MichaelKifer.  Unless we decide whether the language will have semantics, it's hard to have this discussions.   If no semantics, it's hard to see what it would be good for.
17:23:45 <PaulaP> I think this goes beyond OWL...it is more general and depends on the capabiilities the parties interchanging 'something' have
17:24:10 <ChrisW> q?
17:24:12 <AxelPolleres> Zakim, unmue me.
17:24:12 <Zakim> I don't understand 'unmue me', AxelPolleres
17:24:18 <csma> ack axel
17:24:20 <sandro> ack AxelPolleres 
17:25:06 <sandro> Axel: We talked in e-mail about how the RIF would carry information about "features" ... interop with OWL could be one of the features.
17:25:08 <Harold> q+
17:25:37 <sandro> Christian: The relates to Conformance, as well -- how to do you know if a system is conformant when it might or might not handle OWL.
17:25:41 <Allen> This discussion also appears to be related to Design Goals
17:26:01 <PaulaP> +1 on Allen's comment
17:26:07 <PaulV> PaulV has joined #rif
17:26:14 <Francois> +1 on Allen remark
17:26:19 <Darko> Topic: AOB
17:26:19 <sandro> ChrisW: Continue in e-mail.   I'm not interested in what we call "Rule Languages", but about how people view SW Compatibility.
17:26:27 <sandro> +1
17:26:29 <Francois> +1 on CrisW
17:26:43 <Zakim> -Igor_Mozetic
17:26:43 <Francois> Bye!
17:26:44 <Zakim> -Evan_Wallace
17:26:44 <Zakim> -Allen_Ginsberg
17:26:45 <Francois> quit
17:26:45 <Zakim> -Harold
17:26:46 <PaulaP> bye
17:26:47 <Zakim> -csma+PaulV.a
17:26:48 <Zakim> -GiorgosStoilos
17:26:49 <Zakim> -csma+PaulV.aa
17:26:50 <msintek> bye
17:26:50 <Zakim> -josb
17:26:51 <Zakim> -franconi.a
17:26:51 <Allen> bye
17:26:52 <msintek> msintek has left #rif
17:26:52 <Zakim> -msintek
17:26:53 <Darko> call for technical plenary
17:26:54 <Zakim> -Jos_De_Roo
17:26:54 <Guizhen> Guizhen has left #RIF
17:26:54 <PaulV> bye
17:26:56 <Zakim> -aharth
17:26:56 <Darko> yes
17:26:57 <holger> holger has left #rif
17:26:58 <Zakim> -JeffPan
17:27:00 <Zakim> -Michael_Kifer
17:27:02 <Zakim> -DaveReynolds
17:27:02 <Mala> bye
17:27:04 <Zakim> -MarkusK
17:27:06 <Zakim> -Sandro
17:27:08 <Zakim> -Massimo
17:27:10 <Zakim> -franconi
17:27:12 <Zakim> -PhilippeB
17:27:14 <Zakim> -David_Hirtle
17:27:16 <Zakim> -AxelPolleres
17:27:18 <Zakim> -Mike_Dean
17:27:20 <Zakim> -LeoraMorgenstern?
17:27:22 <Zakim> -dieter
17:27:24 <Zakim> -Francois
17:27:26 <Zakim> -IanH
17:27:28 <Zakim> -Peter_PS
17:27:30 <Zakim> -PaulaP
17:27:32 <Zakim> -Mala_Mehrotra
17:27:33 <Darko> Zakim, unmute me
17:27:34 <Zakim> Darko was not muted, Darko
17:27:39 <igor> bye
17:29:19 <Zakim> -csma+PaulV
17:29:28 <csma> csma has left #rif
17:29:31 <ChrisW> rrsagent, draft minutes
17:29:31 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2006/02/14-rif-minutes.html ChrisW
17:30:12 <ChrisW> sandro?
17:30:40 <Darko> rrsagent, create minutes
17:30:40 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2006/02/14-rif-minutes.html Darko
17:32:30 <Zakim> -ChrisW
17:32:31 <Darko> -Darko
17:32:37 <Zakim> -Darko
17:32:39 <Zakim> SW_RIF()11:00AM has ended
17:32:40 <Zakim> Attendees were Harold, +1.813.874.aaaa, PaulaP, +1.408.460.aabb, josb?, MinsuJang, LeoraMorgenstern?, Francois, Sandro, AxelPolleres, JeffPan, +43.512.507.9aacc, ChrisW, franconi,
17:32:44 <Zakim> ... csma+PaulV, Allen_Ginsberg, msintek, David_Hirtle, IanH, GiorgosStoilos, aharth, Peter_PS, Evan_Wallace, Igor_Mozetic, DaveReynolds, Mike_Dean, Mala_Mehrotra, Michael_Kifer,
17:32:48 <Zakim> ... PhilippeB, Massimo, Jos_De_Roo, Darko, +43.512.507.aadd, dieter, MarkusK
17:33:13 <ChrisW> rrsagent, leave
17:33:13 <RRSAgent> I see 17 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2006/02/14-rif-actions.rdf :
17:33:13 <RRSAgent> ACTION: csma to ask ISO whether liaison is worthwhile for ISO IEC Joint Task Force 1, SC 32, Working Group 2: Metadata Standards US national body is ANSI L8 might be interesting for liaison. See [http://metadata-standards.org/] [DONE] [1]
17:33:13 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/02/14-rif-irc#T16-14-05
17:33:13 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Christian will propose another scenario for the publication use case [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/02/07-rif-minutes.html#action08] [DONE] [2]
17:33:13 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/02/14-rif-irc#T16-26-09
17:33:13 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Frank will do the scenarios for information integration with Ed Barkmeyer assisting [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/02/07-rif-minutes.html#action10] [CONTINUED] [3]
17:33:13 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/02/14-rif-irc#T16-26-41
17:33:13 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Leora, JeffP to review and report on human oriented rules section of UCR, sending e-mail by friday. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/02/07-rif-minutes.html#action05] [DONE] [4]
17:33:13 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/02/14-rif-irc#T16-26-58
17:33:13 <RRSAgent> ACTION: leora and Jeff: to review the detailed scenario  [5]
17:33:13 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/02/14-rif-irc#T16-28-34
17:33:13 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Paul Vincent will do the detailed scenario for "Interoperability between rule engines" [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/02/07-rif-minutes.html#action11] [CONTINUED] [6]
17:33:13 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/02/14-rif-irc#T16-28-50
17:33:13 <RRSAgent> ACTION: csma will incite this broader discussion on mailing list. [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/02/07-rif-minutes.html#action14] [CONTINUED] [7]
17:33:13 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/02/14-rif-irc#T16-29-36
17:33:13 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Paula to copy all requirements from original use cases into a single place, removing duplicates and pointing back to originals [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/02/07-rif-minutes.html#action16]  [8]
17:33:13 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/02/14-rif-irc#T16-31-03
17:33:13 <RRSAgent> ACTION: csma:The action is about data accesss [9]
17:33:13 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/02/14-rif-irc#T16-31-25
17:33:13 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Donald, Said, John: provide scenario for human-oriented use case showing where RIF is used [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/02/07-rif-minutes.html#action13] [DONE] [10]
17:33:13 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/02/14-rif-irc#T16-31-49
17:33:13 <RRSAgent> ACTION: for everyone to read the UCR document and to check whether something is missing [11]
17:33:13 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/02/14-rif-irc#T16-35-11
17:33:13 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Allen: start email discussion about design goals (eg disjunctive heads in the rules and etc.) [12]
17:33:13 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/02/14-rif-irc#T16-59-57
17:33:13 <RRSAgent> ACTION: compile a list of design goal questions for listing in a section of the UC&R draft [13]
17:33:13 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/02/14-rif-irc#T17-00-50
17:33:13 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Allen: is to compile a list of design goal issues, rather than start an email discussion [14]
17:33:13 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/02/14-rif-irc#T17-01-33
17:33:13 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Axel, Dieter, Jos Harold to review the Requirements and comment them [15]
17:33:13 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/02/14-rif-irc#T17-02-50
17:33:13 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Chris to start email discussion about what issues are "fuzzy" wrt phase 1 & 2 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/02/07-rif-minutes.html#action18]  [CONTINUED] [16]
17:33:13 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/02/14-rif-irc#T17-03-20
17:33:13 <RRSAgent> ACTION: csma: to send an email about distinguishing roles between OWL and RIF  [17]
17:33:13 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/02/14-rif-irc#T17-20-51
17:33:19 <ChrisW> zakim, leave
17:33:19 <Zakim> Zakim has left #rif