18:55:43 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #ietf-w3c
18:55:43 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2006/02/13-ietf-w3c-irc
18:55:55 <plh> Meeting: IETF/W3C liaison meeting
18:56:01 <plh> Chair: Philippe
18:56:51 <plh> agenda+ Action items
18:57:03 <plh> agenda+ W3C Workshop on Transparency and Usability of Web Authentication
18:57:11 <plh> agenda+ Domain Keys Identified Mail (dkim)
18:57:22 <plh> agenda+ Problems with the IETF's copying permissions
18:57:30 <plh> agenda+ Status update on calsify?
18:57:36 <plh> agenda+ Next Call
19:00:04 <plh> zakim, call plh-work
19:00:04 <Zakim> ok, plh; the call is being made
19:00:06 <Zakim> W3C_IETF()2:00PM has now started
19:00:06 <Zakim> +Plh
19:00:32 <Zakim> +DanC
19:00:51 <Zakim> +Thomas
19:01:23 <Zakim> +John_Klensin
19:02:04 <DanC> [[
19:02:05 <DanC> The proposed BoF on DMSP and the approved BoF on DIX might be
19:02:05 <DanC> of interest.
19:02:05 <DanC>                         Ted
19:02:06 <DanC> ]]
19:02:08 <Zakim> + +1.650.793.aaaa
19:02:10 <plh> agenda+ Digital Identity Interchange?
19:02:25 <tlr> agenda7= DIX and DMSP BOFs
19:02:35 <DanC> Zakim, aaa is Ted_Hardy
19:02:35 <Zakim> sorry, DanC, I do not recognize a party named 'aaa'
19:02:37 <tlr> zakim, agenda?
19:02:37 <Zakim> I see 7 items remaining on the agenda:
19:02:39 <Zakim> 1. Action items [from plh]
19:02:40 <Zakim> 2. W3C Workshop on Transparency and Usability of Web Authentication [from plh]
19:02:41 <DanC> Zakim, ?aaaa is Ted_Hardy
19:02:41 <Zakim> 3. Domain Keys Identified Mail (dkim) [from plh]
19:02:43 <Zakim> 4. Problems with the IETF's copying permissions [from plh]
19:02:45 <Zakim> 5. Status update on calsify? [from plh]
19:02:47 <Zakim> 6. Next Call [from plh]
19:02:48 <Zakim> 7. DIX and DMSP BOFs
19:02:49 <Zakim> sorry, DanC, I do not recognize a party named '?aaaa'
19:02:52 <plh> zakim, 650 is Ted
19:02:52 <Zakim> sorry, plh, I do not recognize a party named '650'
19:02:54 <DanC> Zakim, aaaa is Ted_Hardy
19:02:54 <Zakim> +Ted_Hardy; got it
19:03:07 <plh> Ted: DIX BOF will happen in Dallas.
19:03:40 <Zakim> +Leslie_Daigle
19:04:14 <plh> zakim, who's here?
19:04:14 <Zakim> On the phone I see Plh, DanC, Thomas, John_Klensin, Ted_Hardy, Leslie_Daigle
19:04:17 <Zakim> On IRC I see RRSAgent, Zakim, plh, DanC, tlr
19:04:34 <DanC> Regets: Scott Hollenbeck
19:04:40 <tlr> s/Regets/Regrets/
19:04:44 <DanC> Regets+ TimBL
19:04:47 <DanC> Rergets+ TimBL
19:04:51 <DanC> Regrets+ TimBL
19:06:03 <plh> ACTION: DanC to look into adding "note well..." notice to webdav, uri
19:06:03 <plh> lists [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/08/15-ietf-w3c-minutes]
19:06:07 <knitbot> knitbot has joined #ietf-w3c
19:06:21 <plh> ACTION: Philippe to check with Martin about the status of file:
19:06:21 <plh> [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/08/15-ietf-w3c-minutes]
19:06:26 <Zakim> +TimBL
19:08:04 <DanC> Ted: Larry said he intends to do it
19:08:05 <timbl> timbl has joined #ietf-w3c
19:08:08 <DanC> DanC: yes, I saw that
19:09:05 <DanC> -- withdrawn
19:09:12 <DanC> bridge action done
19:09:14 <knitbot> could someone re-paste the updated agenda here, or (better!) send it to hte mailing list?  It'd be helpful to have the whole thing in front of me....
19:09:50 <DanC> PLH is working from an agenda he sent Fri, 10 Feb 2006 15:35:58 -0500  (14:35 CST) 
19:09:53 <DanC> Zakim, next item
19:09:53 <Zakim> agendum 1. "Action items" taken up [from plh]
19:09:59 <DanC> Zakim, close item 1
19:09:59 <Zakim> agendum 1, Action items, closed
19:10:00 <Zakim> I see 6 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
19:10:01 <Zakim> 2. W3C Workshop on Transparency and Usability of Web Authentication [from plh]
19:10:03 <DanC> Zakim, next item
19:10:03 <Zakim> agendum 2. "W3C Workshop on Transparency and Usability of Web Authentication" taken up [from plh]
19:10:49 <JcK> JcK has joined #ietf-w3c
19:10:49 <plh>  http://www.w3.org/2005/Security/usability-ws/
19:10:56 <DanC> 15/16 March 2006 — New York City, USA
19:11:06 <DanC> TRL: program committee is reviewing position papers
19:11:38 <DanC> s/TRL/TLR/
19:11:48 <timbl> User interface aspects of the browser security problem.
19:12:05 <DanC> TLR: workshop is focussed on user experience of web browsing, and security problems there
19:12:10 <DanC> (sorry to make you say it twice)
19:12:35 <DanC> TLR: we have participation from financial services, [missed], browser vendors.
19:12:53 <plh> zakim, agenda order is 3, 7, 4, 5, 6
19:12:53 <Zakim> ok, plh
19:12:56 <DanC> TLR: workshop program to appear in a week or so
19:13:22 <DanC> Zakim, next item
19:13:22 <Zakim> agendum 3. "Domain Keys Identified Mail (dkim)" taken up [from plh]
19:14:24 <DanC> Ted: DKIM WG is chartered. 1st meeting at the upcoming Dallas IETF.
19:14:29 <DanC> ... in the security area
19:14:38 <DanC> ... I think the milestones in the charter are up-to-date
19:15:28 <DanC> Ted: there were some concerns about the openness of the original designers to accept changes, but they've acommodated request for incompatible change
19:15:35 <plh> zakim, mute me
19:15:35 <Zakim> Plh should now be muted
19:15:41 <plh> zakim, unmute me
19:15:41 <Zakim> Plh should no longer be muted
19:16:22 <plh> http://www.ietf.org/html.charters/dkim-charter.html
19:16:30 <plh> [[ Feb 2006	  	WG last call on DKIM threats and security requirements
19:16:30 <plh> May 2006	  	WG last call on DKIM signature specification
19:16:30 <plh> Sep 2006	  	WG last call on DKIM policy specification
19:16:30 <plh> Dec 2006	  	WG last call on DKIM DNS Resource Record
19:16:30 <plh> Dec 2006	  	WG last call on overview document ]]
19:16:54 <DanC> [[ May 2006	  	WG last call on DKIM signature specification ]]]
19:17:03 <tlr> q+ to ask about level on consensus for the threats & reqs document
19:18:33 <timbl> q+ to ask about the signature standards
19:19:04 <DanC> DanC: some W3C members are asking about "what should a large user org do?"
19:19:20 <DanC> Ted: you could tell them to be sure their DNS service doesn't block resource records.
19:19:37 <DanC> (it would be nice to have a pointer to a nice article aimed at sysadmins of large enterprises)
19:20:25 <plh> ack thomas
19:20:26 <Zakim> Thomas, you wanted to ask about level on consensus for the threats & reqs document
19:21:08 <DanC> (tlr says he heard ted say threats & reqs document was in last call; I missed that)
19:21:45 <DanC> Ted: there's WG last call and IETF last call... consensus is rough, but basically there; there seems to be critical mass of support for an important use case.
19:22:40 <DanC> [... some technical explanation of a case that is not covered... zombies and granularity of domain policies... ]
19:23:31 <DanC> (this case seems to go beyond what I see as critical requirements)
19:23:47 <DanC> RFC3597
19:23:50 <tlr> RFC 3597 on handling unknown DNS record types
19:23:51 <plh> ack tim
19:23:51 <Zakim> timbl, you wanted to ask about the signature standards
19:24:31 <DanC> TimBL: what do the signatures look like? PGP? PKI?
19:24:38 <tlr> some community disagreement about whether or not there needs to be support for distinguishing between different e-mail addresses @ the same domain.
19:24:39 <knitbot> BTW -- to refresh peoples' memories -- we did talk about DKIM on our last call (at the time it had bof'ed once, and was lining up to BOF in Vancouver)
19:24:52 <DanC> Ted: it's like disconnected [something] in S/MIME, but it's new.
19:25:19 <DanC> ... a critical question is: which parts of the message are signed?
19:26:12 <DanC> Zakim, next item
19:26:12 <Zakim> agendum 7. "DIX and DMSP BOFs" taken up
19:26:16 <knitbot> Tim -- rats!  could have been a good cure for drunk driving ;-)
19:26:38 <tlr> Distributed Multimodal Synchronization Protocol
19:26:47 <DanC> Ted: this [which?] is a proposal for a Distributed Multimodal Synchronization Protocol
19:27:15 <DanC> ... a protocol for stuff that goes between components of, e.g., a voice browsing system [?]
19:27:24 <plh> http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-engelsma-dmsp-00.txt -> not found :-/
19:27:36 <plh> http://www.rfc-editor.org/internet-drafts/draft-engelsma-dmsp-01.txt
19:28:30 <tlr> DIX BOF won't be reviewing a charter
19:28:54 <DanC> Ted: DIX didn't make Vancouver, but are having a BOF in Dallas
19:28:55 <knitbot> Ted writes, in jabber:  draft-engelsma-dmsp-01.txt
19:28:56 <tlr> Folks involved in SAML agree it's not too much of an overlap
19:29:22 <DanC> (do you IETF folks have something where you can click on "draft-engelsma-dmsp-01.txt" and have it come up on your screen? )
19:30:05 <knitbot> Lots of text incoming from Ted:
19:30:07 <knitbot> Name of the BOF
19:30:07 <knitbot> Digital Identity Exchange (DIX)
19:30:07 <knitbot> Area:
19:30:07 <knitbot> Applications
19:30:07 <knitbot> Chairs:
19:30:08 <knitbot> Lisa Dusseault <lisa@osafoundation.org>
19:30:10 <knitbot> John Merrells <merrells@sxip.com>
19:30:12 <DanC> Ted: do you expect charter review at a future BOF?
19:30:15 <knitbot> Sponsoring Area Directors:
19:30:16 <knitbot> Scott Hollenbeck <shollenbeck@verisign.com>
19:30:18 <knitbot> Ted Hardie <hardie@qualcomm.com>
19:30:20 <knitbot> BOF Description
19:30:22 <knitbot> Objectives
19:30:24 <knitbot> 1. To consider the creation of a new IETF working group within the Applications Area  titled "Digital Identity Exchange".  The proposed charter for such a working group is referenced below.
19:30:25 <tlr> s/Ted: do/Thomas: do/
19:30:27 <knitbot> 2. To discuss and hone the scope of a DIX working group.
19:30:29 <knitbot> 3. To discuss the architectural requirements that derive from the laws of identity identified by ‘The Identity Gang’ at ‘The Berkman Center for Internet & Society, Harvard Law School’. Referenced below.
19:30:32 <knitbot> 4. To discuss existing architectural implementations within the context of these requirements. An individual submission Internet Draft that describes one such implementation is referenced below, named ‘draft-merrells-dix-00.txt’
19:30:36 <knitbot> 5. To determine if there is enough interest and commitment to form a Working Group and if so to then discuss what the specific goals and milestones of that working group would be.
19:30:39 <knitbot> BOF Agenda
19:30:43 <knitbot> Introduction and Agenda Discussion (5 min)
19:30:45 <knitbot> Scope Discussion (10 min)
19:30:47 <knitbot> Identity Laws and Architectural Requirements (10 min)
19:30:49 <knitbot> Existing Architecture Presentations (30 min)
19:30:51 <knitbot> Call for Participation (5 min)
19:30:53 <knitbot> Deliverables Discussion (15 min )
19:30:55 <knitbot> Open Discussion (any remaining time)
19:30:57 <knitbot> Documents
19:30:59 <knitbot> Charter Draft: http://dixs.org/index.php/DIX_Charter
19:31:03 <knitbot> DIX Protocol ID: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-merrells-dix-00.txt
19:31:05 <knitbot> DIX Protocol ID: http://dixs.org/index.php/DIX_Protocol_ID
19:31:07 <knitbot> Identity Laws: http://www.identityblog.com/stories/2004/12/09/thelaws.html
19:31:21 <DanC> q+
19:31:33 <tlr> q+ to ask about interaction with MS Infocard
19:33:26 <DanC> Ted: DSMP BOF is unlikely for Dallas; they may have time in the RAI [?] area open meeting
19:34:14 <plh> -> http://www.w3.org/2002/mmi/ Multimodal Interaction Activity
19:34:16 <plh> ack Dan
19:34:21 <plh> ack Thomas
19:34:22 <Zakim> Thomas, you wanted to ask about interaction with MS Infocard
19:34:57 <DanC> (I'm curious about DIX compared to OpenID too.)
19:35:12 <DanC> Ted: dunno; ask scott in email?
19:35:25 <DanC> TeH is excused
19:35:28 <DanC> TedH is excused
19:35:34 <Zakim> -Ted_Hardy
19:35:40 <knitbot> speaking as a mailing list reader, not anything else -- it seems like the dix proposal as currently stated is very much in danger of overruning other efforts.  That's one of the things that will have to get fixed.
19:35:42 <DanC> Zakim, next item
19:35:42 <Zakim> agendum 4. "Problems with the IETF's copying permissions" taken up [from plh]
19:36:12 <plh>   http://josefsson.org/bcp78broken/
19:36:27 <Zakim> -Thomas
19:36:35 <DanC> -> http://josefsson.org/bcp78broken/ Problems with the IETF's copying permissions
19:37:05 <DanC> Klensin: yes, we've heard that issue raised. it's an ongoing discussion.
19:39:09 <DanC> "The license in RFC 2026 [2] gave third parties the right to produce unrestricted derivative works, under some conditions."
19:40:16 <plh> q+
19:40:50 <plh> q-
19:41:38 <DanC> Klensin: it's a question of rights to produce derivative works, expecially code excerpts
19:41:52 <DanC> DanC: ah. yes. W3C has a separate software license for those reasons.
19:42:31 <plh> zakim, next item
19:42:31 <Zakim> agendum 5. "Status update on calsify?" taken up [from plh]
19:43:01 <DanC> no news.
19:43:03 <plh> zakim, next item
19:43:03 <Zakim> agendum 5 was just opened, plh
19:43:52 <plh> zakim, close agendum 5
19:43:52 <Zakim> agendum 5, Status update on calsify?, closed
19:43:53 <Zakim> I see 1 item remaining on the agenda:
19:43:54 <Zakim> 6. Next Call [from plh]
19:44:20 <plh> zakim, next item
19:44:20 <Zakim> agendum 6. "Next Call" taken up [from plh]
19:44:21 <DanC> DanC: I'm curious about VCalendar testing... esp w.r.t. hCalendar and microformats
19:44:27 <DanC> no urgency
19:44:40 <plh> Monday, October 2, 2006, 2pm Eastern?
19:45:19 <DanC> LD: as opposed to 3x/yr?
19:45:28 <DanC> ... 1st week June?
19:46:38 <plh> June 5, 2006, 2pm Eastern
19:46:41 <DanC> Mon, 5 Jun 2006 2p Boston time?
19:46:46 <DanC> Mon, 5 Jun 2006 2p Boston time OK for DanC
19:48:29 <Zakim> -Leslie_Daigle
19:48:33 <Zakim> -TimBL
19:48:34 <Zakim> -Plh
19:48:36 <Zakim> -John_Klensin
19:48:39 <DanC> RESOLVED: to meet again Mon, 5 Jun 2006 2p Boston time. Leslie to chair, though various risks noted
19:48:45 <Zakim> -DanC
19:48:46 <Zakim> W3C_IETF()2:00PM has ended
19:48:47 <Zakim> Attendees were Plh, DanC, Thomas, John_Klensin, +1.650.793.aaaa, Ted_Hardy, Leslie_Daigle, TimBL
19:49:04 <JcK> JcK has left #ietf-w3c
19:49:51 <plh> zakim, make log public
19:49:51 <Zakim> I don't understand 'make log public', plh
19:50:02 <plh> zarrsagent, make log public
19:50:05 <plh> rrsagent, make log public
19:50:18 <plh> rrsagent, generate minutes
19:50:18 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2006/02/13-ietf-w3c-minutes.html plh