IRC log of dawg on 2006-01-10
Timestamps are in UTC.
- 14:31:42 [RRSAgent]
- RRSAgent has joined #dawg
- 14:31:42 [RRSAgent]
- logging to http://www.w3.org/2006/01/10-dawg-irc
- 14:31:48 [Zakim]
- +DanC
- 14:32:26 [Zakim]
- +Kendall_Clark
- 14:32:34 [Zakim]
- +Elias_Torres
- 14:32:40 [Zakim]
- +Libby_Miller
- 14:32:41 [DanC]
- mirrors are slow; you might try http://jimbo.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/weekly-agenda
- 14:32:56 [EliasT]
- Zakim, Elias_Torres is me
- 14:32:56 [Zakim]
- +EliasT; got it
- 14:33:10 [DanC]
- Zakim, take up item 1
- 14:33:10 [Zakim]
- agendum 1. "Convene, take roll, review records and agenda" taken up [from DanC]
- 14:33:12 [Zakim]
- +[IPcaller]
- 14:33:13 [Zakim]
- +[IPcaller.a]
- 14:33:14 [DanC]
- Zakim, who's on the phone?
- 14:33:14 [Zakim]
- On the phone I see AndyS, DanC, Kendall_Clark, EliasT, Libby_Miller, [IPcaller], [IPcaller.a]
- 14:33:25 [SteveH]
- Zakim, IPcaller is me
- 14:33:25 [Zakim]
- +SteveH; got it
- 14:33:39 [EnricoFranconi]
- zakim, IPcaller.a is me
- 14:33:39 [Zakim]
- +EnricoFranconi; got it
- 14:33:54 [DanC]
- -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2006JanMar/att-0042/05-01-minutes.html minutes 5 Jan
- 14:34:19 [DanC]
- Zakim, who's on the phone?
- 14:34:19 [Zakim]
- On the phone I see AndyS, DanC, Kendall_Clark, EliasT, Libby_Miller, SteveH, EnricoFranconi
- 14:34:42 [DanC]
- regrets: Jeen Broekstra
- 14:34:47 [SteveH]
- RESOLVED to accept minuites of 5 Jan as record of previous meeting
- 14:35:06 [sd]
- sd has joined #dawg
- 14:35:33 [ericP]
- zakim, please dial Hugo-617
- 14:35:33 [Zakim]
- ok, ericP; the call is being made
- 14:35:34 [DanC]
- PROPOSED: to meet next Thu 12 Jan 1600Z. scribe?
- 14:35:34 [Zakim]
- +Hugo
- 14:35:54 [DanC]
- Zakim, pick a scribe
- 14:35:54 [Zakim]
- Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose EliasT
- 14:36:04 [Jos_De_Roo]
- Jos_De_Roo has joined #dawg
- 14:36:09 [ericP]
- zakim, Hugo is temporarily ericP
- 14:36:09 [Zakim]
- +ericP; got it
- 14:36:09 [libby]
- too late!
- 14:36:24 [DanC]
- RESOLVED: to meet next Thu 12 Jan 1600Z. scribe: Elias
- 14:36:36 [Zakim]
- +Jos_De_Roo
- 14:36:45 [DanC]
- you might check your calendar for 17Jan, libby
- 14:37:24 [patH]
- patH has joined #dawg
- 14:37:26 [AndyS]
- http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/semantic-web/2006Jan/0086.html
- 14:37:33 [DanC]
- Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2006JanMar/0047.html
- 14:37:48 [Zakim]
- +PatH
- 14:38:00 [kendallclark]
- happy birthday jos!
- 14:38:11 [Zakim]
- -EnricoFranconi
- 14:38:25 [kendallclark]
- A Chimay on us, Jos!
- 14:38:31 [Jos_De_Roo]
- thanks to all!!!
- 14:38:51 [DanC]
- Zakim, next item
- 14:38:51 [Zakim]
- agendum 2. "issues#wsdlAbstractProtocol" taken up [from DanC]
- 14:39:30 [DanC]
- KC reports progress in http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2006JanMar/0048.html
- 14:39:48 [DanC]
- sparql-protocol-query.wsdl,v 1.15 2006/01/09 19:59:32
- 14:40:04 [ericP]
- SteveH, can you do a quick update and build the tests?
- 14:40:21 [SteveH]
- ericP, no, sorry, my machine is in eadth-swap
- 14:40:56 [ericP]
- I'll try on spam.w3.org
- 14:41:29 [DanC]
- KC: there are now 2 bindings
- 14:41:36 [SerT]
- SerT has joined #dawg
- 14:43:30 [patH]
- fine
- 14:43:38 [SteveH]
- kendall: WSDL and working groups understanding are now in sync (?)
- 14:43:50 [DanC]
- RRSAgent, pointer?
- 14:43:50 [RRSAgent]
- See http://www.w3.org/2006/01/10-dawg-irc#T14-43-50
- 14:44:01 [SerT]
- I'm logged in
- 14:44:10 [kendallclark]
- If you want all the gory details, see the checkin message for 1.16
- 14:44:11 [Zakim]
- +[IPcaller]
- 14:44:14 [SerT]
- hi everybody
- 14:44:16 [patH]
- hi sergio
- 14:44:24 [EnricoFranconi]
- zakim, IPcaller is me
- 14:44:24 [Zakim]
- +EnricoFranconi; got it
- 14:44:34 [kendallclark]
- I was hoping to ask Hugo and someone in DAWG for review.
- 14:44:37 [patH]
- hi enrico
- 14:44:45 [Zakim]
- +[IBMCambridge]
- 14:44:46 [LeeF]
- zakim, IBMCambridge is temporarily LeeF
- 14:44:47 [Zakim]
- +LeeF; got it
- 14:45:27 [kendallclark]
- LeeF: http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/proto-wd/sparql-protocol-query.wsdl
- 14:45:49 [LeeF]
- thx
- 14:46:52 [DanC]
- Zakim, mute EnricoFranconi
- 14:46:52 [Zakim]
- EnricoFranconi should now be muted
- 14:47:12 [SteveH]
- kendall: 2 things about the design that are not obvious: cant have a conformant SPARQL service that returns N3 (or anything other than RDF/XML for graphs)
- 14:47:43 [SteveH]
- kendall: if it accepts an XML query format, thats not legal either
- 14:48:07 [SteveH]
- kendall: need to create new binding and interface if you want to do that
- 14:49:31 [SteveH]
- kendall: can say it returns application/*, or list the return type explicitly
- 14:50:24 [kendallclark]
- zakim, mute me
- 14:50:24 [Zakim]
- Kendall_Clark should now be muted
- 14:50:57 [AndyS]
- DanC: N3 designers may be after text/*
- 14:50:59 [kendallclark]
- sorry, I missed Pat's comments ;>
- 14:51:14 [kendallclark]
- I'm happy to list more IMTs explicitly
- 14:51:50 [kendallclark]
- zakim, unmute me
- 14:51:50 [Zakim]
- Kendall_Clark should no longer be muted
- 14:51:52 [SteveH]
- DanC: I think it should be */*
- 14:53:57 [SteveH]
- PatH: agree that its asymmetric (in v's out variation), but dont want multiple input formats
- 14:54:22 [SteveH]
- DanC: you have to be prepared to throw away in/out puts that you dont understand
- 14:54:40 [Zakim]
- +Bijan_Parsia
- 14:55:51 [SteveH]
- AndyS: input serialisation is about the wrapper, not the query string (?)
- 14:56:27 [patH]
- for the record, I'd like multi formats both ways. BUt I think asymmetry with one end freee is betr than both ends constrained.
- 14:56:42 [SteveH]
- patH, sorry! misunderstood
- 14:56:45 [patH]
- OK
- 14:58:55 [kendallclark]
- 2.2.1.11 is an example
- 15:02:07 [SteveH]
- [p]
- 15:02:59 [SteveH]
- Danc: want to put the WSDL protocol question on thursday
- 15:03:30 [ericP-telnet]
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- 15:03:59 [SteveH]
- kendall: will add */* to the output serialisations
- 15:04:36 [AndyS]
- DanC is correct - I was working through the issues.
- 15:05:09 [kendallclark]
- LeeF
- 15:05:12 [SteveH]
- thx
- 15:05:36 [SteveH]
- LeeF: SOAP is left as RDF/XML root element, with contents unconstrained
- 15:05:46 [AndyS]
- One is that we say in rq23 that "A SPARQL query string is a Unicode character string ... in the language defined by the following grammar".
- 15:06:18 [ericP-telnet]
- having irc client challenges -- using telnet
- 15:06:36 [SteveH]
- LeeF: thats the only way you could return content, eg. put N3 in RDF root element as text
- 15:07:30 [SteveH]
- kendall: group of people who want to use SOAP probably dont overlap much with people who want to use N3
- 15:07:48 [DanC]
- ACTION KC: refine .wsdl description w.r.t. mime types
- 15:08:00 [ericP]
- ericP has joined #dawg
- 15:08:43 [DanC]
- ericp, re-poke re policy foo
- 15:08:44 [kendallclark]
- BTW, this action: review sparql-types for xs:any weirdness is finally DONE
- 15:08:50 [ericP-telnet]
- will do
- 15:09:09 [DanC]
- Zakim, next item
- 15:09:09 [Zakim]
- agendum 3. "Toward updated protocol WD (and results format WD)" taken up [from DanC]
- 15:09:54 [kendallclark]
- (I say "no work has been done" as the slackerist WG member! :>)
- 15:10:01 [DanC]
- ACTION: EliasT to recruit somebody to try out the protocol test harness, perhaps from the -comments list [DONE]
- 15:10:30 [DanC]
- Elias: looks like Richard and I should have something next week
- 15:11:18 [SteveH]
- EliasT: just have to update the python tests to be insync with joseki
- 15:11:19 [ericP-telnet]
- ACTION: EricP to pester W3C folks about unified comments on security and policy
- 15:12:07 [SteveH]
- EliasT: mostly read automatically from spec, but there are some that are purposly broken (includes ...)
- 15:13:13 [LeeF]
- I will.
- 15:13:27 [LeeF]
- Elias will point me to the example in question.
- 15:13:50 [LeeF]
- I've got an hour to kill writing long, creative SPARQL queries.
- 15:13:53 [kendallclark]
- I just don't have time to be more creative! :>
- 15:14:03 [AndyS]
- SPARQL allows duplicate triple patterns - it can be :s :p :o x1000
- 15:14:08 [SteveH]
- DanC: the exmaple should cross the traditional URL length limit
- 15:14:51 [DanC]
- ACTION: Jeen try to reproduces EliasT's protocol testing results [CONTINUES]
- 15:14:57 [DanC]
- Zakim, next item
- 15:14:57 [Zakim]
- agendum 4. "protocol testing update" taken up [from DanC]
- 15:15:02 [DanC]
- Zakim, close item 4
- 15:15:02 [Zakim]
- agendum 4, protocol testing update, closed
- 15:15:03 [Zakim]
- I see 4 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
- 15:15:04 [Zakim]
- 5. issues#rdfSemantics, issues#owlDisjunction [from DanC]
- 15:15:08 [DanC]
- Zakim, next item
- 15:15:08 [Zakim]
- agendum 5. "issues#rdfSemantics, issues#owlDisjunction" taken up [from DanC]
- 15:15:32 [EnricoFranconi]
- zakim, unmute me
- 15:15:32 [Zakim]
- EnricoFranconi should no longer be muted
- 15:16:04 [SteveH]
- patH: 2nd mail is not sent yet
- 15:16:11 [DanC]
- Subject: bnodeification (was: Re: SPARQL semantics: open issues for basic query patterns)
- 15:16:11 [DanC]
- Date: Mon, 9 Jan 2006 17:27:19 -0600
- 15:16:27 [SteveH]
- patH: mail num. 1 goes beyond the action item because theres a proposal in there
- 15:17:47 [SteveH]
- patH: allows extra redundancy in the answer set, in order to maintain the simplicity of the definitions, but there is a way to reduce the redundancy
- 15:17:50 [LeeF]
- EnricoFranconi: latest definitions are not the same as original subgraph matching definitions
- 15:19:45 [SteveH]
- Zakim, mute me
- 15:19:45 [Zakim]
- SteveH should now be muted
- 15:20:31 [SteveH]
- Zakim, unmute me
- 15:20:31 [Zakim]
- SteveH should no longer be muted
- 15:21:58 [SteveH]
- EnricoFranconi: it is important for interoperability that services should return same answers from a lean and non-lean graph (?)
- 15:24:05 [Souri]
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- 15:24:43 [LeeF_]
- LeeF_ has joined #dawg
- 15:25:37 [LeeF_]
- LeeF_ has left #dawg
- 15:25:40 [LeeF_]
- LeeF_ has joined #dawg
- 15:25:48 [DanC]
- Pat, Enrico, I need to start wrapping up (unless I hear a proposal to extend)
- 15:27:48 [DanC]
- ACTION: PatH revise Enrico's "Proposed changes" on matching and entailment for solution sequences, esp w.r.t. RDFmerge/order [CONTINUES]
- 15:27:54 [ericP]
- keep going, guys!
- 15:27:58 [SteveH]
- patH: almost done with action, but not quite
- 15:27:59 [DanC]
- ACTION: Enrico to review draft text on matching and entailment for solution sequences [CONTINUES]
- 15:28:24 [Souri]
- (just fyi) Folks at our org have some comments that we hope to post by end of this week
- 15:28:55 [DanC]
- ACTION: Bijan to elaborate on test/example of foaf query where bnodes cross answers
- 15:29:12 [DanC]
- -- continues
- 15:29:14 [DanC]
- (I presume)
- 15:31:05 [DanC]
- -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2006JanMar/0030.html from Enrico
- 15:31:22 [DanC]
- Enrico confirms that's current from him
- 15:31:25 [EnricoFranconi]
- http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2006JanMar/0030.html\
- 15:31:31 [DanC]
- Bijan proposes Andy incorporate that
- 15:31:50 [LeeF_]
- extend
- 15:31:53 [SteveH]
- i need to go
- 15:32:11 [SteveH]
- ericP: will take over scribing
- 15:32:26 [LeeF_]
- bye, SteveH
- 15:32:28 [Zakim]
- -SteveH
- 15:32:52 [EnricoFranconi]
- sorry about that
- 15:33:11 [EnricoFranconi]
- yes
- 15:33:37 [ericP]
- Enrico: the content of 0030 is roughly correct, but PatH is welcome to tinker with it
- 15:33:58 [ericP]
- Andy: this is clear except for result sets
- 15:34:03 [DanC]
- AndyS: I see how to incorproate 0030 , save for results set...
- 15:34:09 [ericP]
- PatH: I can add some explanatory text
- 15:34:17 [ericP]
- ... for result sets
- 15:34:32 [EnricoFranconi]
- ok for me
- 15:34:56 [ericP]
- PatH: may I s/RDF merge/ordered merge/ ?
- 15:35:02 [SerT]
- sure
- 15:35:45 [SerT]
- BTW ordered merge could be used to give a precise definition to the CONSTRUCT operator
- 15:35:56 [AndyS]
- Noted
- 15:36:27 [ericP]
- DanC: Andy, the text you incorporate will say "no" to PPS's use case?
- 15:36:30 [ericP]
- AndyS: yes
- 15:37:03 [ericP]
- Bijan: re redundancy on answer sets, does that affect distinct?
- 15:37:34 [EnricoFranconi]
- distinct and redundancy are different issues, I believe
- 15:38:12 [patH]
- I agree.
- 15:38:28 [ericP]
- Bijan: so DISTINCT operates over syntactic redundancy, not logical redundancy
- 15:38:40 [LeeF_]
- LeeF_ has left #dawg
- 15:39:17 [DanC]
- ACTION: Bijan to elaborate on test/example of foaf query where bnodes cross answers [DONE]
- 15:39:35 [ericP]
- action -1
- 15:39:37 [DanC]
- Pat's msg of Mon, 9 Jan 2006 17:27:19 -0600 discharges bijan's action
- 15:39:48 [ericP]
- action -8
- 15:40:10 [Zakim]
- -Bijan_Parsia
- 15:40:18 [ericP]
- ACTION: KC to refine .wsdl description w.r.t. mime types
- 15:40:23 [ericP]
- action -7
- 15:40:41 [Zakim]
- +Bijan_Parsia
- 15:40:50 [EnricoFranconi_]
- EnricoFranconi_ has joined #dawg
- 15:40:52 [LeeF]
- LeeF has joined #dawg
- 15:41:11 [AndyS]
- ""A test passes if the graph from the action is logically equivalent to the graph named in the result.""
- 15:41:15 [ericP]
- zakim, who is speaking?
- 15:41:18 [Zakim]
- -Bijan_Parsia
- 15:41:20 [DanC]
- ACTION DanC: review test README re "logically equivalent" vs graph equivalent
- 15:41:26 [Zakim]
- ericP, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: AndyS (5%), Bijan_Parsia (11%), DanC (41%), ericP (4%)
- 15:41:35 [DanC]
- ADJOURN.
- 15:41:44 [Zakim]
- -Jos_De_Roo
- 15:41:47 [Zakim]
- -EliasT
- 15:41:50 [Zakim]
- -PatH
- 15:41:53 [Zakim]
- -Libby_Miller
- 15:41:54 [patH]
- quit
- 15:42:01 [Souri]
- quit
- 15:42:12 [Zakim]
- -Kendall_Clark
- 15:42:24 [AndyS]
- AndyS has left #dawg
- 15:44:05 [ericP]
- rrsagent, please draft minutes
- 15:44:05 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2006/01/10-dawg-minutes.html ericP
- 15:47:24 [EnricoFranconi]
- EnricoFranconi has joined #dawg
- 15:48:51 [EnricoFranconi]
- bye all!
- 15:49:00 [Zakim]
- -EnricoFranconi
- 15:49:21 [LeeF]
- bye, EnricoFranconi
- 15:49:40 [SerT]
- bye everybody
- 15:50:11 [SerT]
- SerT has left #dawg
- 15:50:58 [Zakim]
- -DanC
- 15:51:47 [ericP]
- 2006-01-07T20:19:40Z <bjoern_> so if you have a normative statement that character references must represent legal XML 1.1 Chars, and an informative note that [^...] excludes anything that is not a Char per XML 1.1, I'd be happy
- 15:52:46 [afs_]
- afs_ has joined #dawg
- 15:52:55 [ericP]
- 2006-01-07T20:19:40Z <bjoern_> so if you have a normative statement that character references must represent legal XML 1.1 Chars, and an informative note that [^...] excludes anything that is not a Char per XML 1.1, I'd be happy
- 15:59:10 [Zakim]
- -LeeF
- 15:59:13 [LeeF]
- LeeF has left #dawg
- 16:13:46 [Zakim]
- -AndyS
- 16:13:51 [Zakim]
- -ericP
- 16:13:53 [Zakim]
- SW_DAWG()9:30AM has ended
- 16:13:54 [Zakim]
- Attendees were AndyS, DanC, Kendall_Clark, Libby_Miller, EliasT, SteveH, EnricoFranconi, ericP, Jos_De_Roo, PatH, LeeF, Bijan_Parsia
- 16:14:19 [ericP]
- RRSAgent, leave us
- 16:14:19 [RRSAgent]
- I see 7 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2006/01/10-dawg-actions.rdf :
- 16:14:19 [RRSAgent]
- ACTION: EliasT to recruit somebody to try out the protocol test harness, perhaps from the -comments list [DONE] [2]
- 16:14:19 [RRSAgent]
- recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/01/10-dawg-irc#T15-10-01
- 16:14:19 [RRSAgent]
- ACTION: EricP to pester W3C folks about unified comments on security and policy [3]
- 16:14:19 [RRSAgent]
- recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/01/10-dawg-irc#T15-11-19
- 16:14:19 [RRSAgent]
- ACTION: Jeen try to reproduces EliasT's protocol testing results [CONTINUES] [4]
- 16:14:19 [RRSAgent]
- recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/01/10-dawg-irc#T15-14-51
- 16:14:19 [RRSAgent]
- ACTION: PatH revise Enrico's "Proposed changes" on matching and entailment for solution sequences, esp w.r.t. RDFmerge/order [CONTINUES] [5]
- 16:14:19 [RRSAgent]
- recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/01/10-dawg-irc#T15-27-48
- 16:14:19 [RRSAgent]
- ACTION: Enrico to review draft text on matching and entailment for solution sequences [CONTINUES] [6]
- 16:14:19 [RRSAgent]
- recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/01/10-dawg-irc#T15-27-59
- 16:14:19 [RRSAgent]
- ACTION: KC to refine .wsdl description w.r.t. mime types [9]
- 16:14:19 [RRSAgent]
- recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/01/10-dawg-irc#T15-40-18
- 16:14:19 [RRSAgent]
- ACTION: DanC to review test README re "logically equivalent" vs graph equivalent [10]
- 16:14:19 [RRSAgent]
- recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/01/10-dawg-irc#T15-41-20