IRC log of dawg on 2006-01-10

Timestamps are in UTC.

14:31:42 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #dawg
14:31:42 [RRSAgent]
logging to http://www.w3.org/2006/01/10-dawg-irc
14:31:48 [Zakim]
+DanC
14:32:26 [Zakim]
+Kendall_Clark
14:32:34 [Zakim]
+Elias_Torres
14:32:40 [Zakim]
+Libby_Miller
14:32:41 [DanC]
mirrors are slow; you might try http://jimbo.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/weekly-agenda
14:32:56 [EliasT]
Zakim, Elias_Torres is me
14:32:56 [Zakim]
+EliasT; got it
14:33:10 [DanC]
Zakim, take up item 1
14:33:10 [Zakim]
agendum 1. "Convene, take roll, review records and agenda" taken up [from DanC]
14:33:12 [Zakim]
+[IPcaller]
14:33:13 [Zakim]
+[IPcaller.a]
14:33:14 [DanC]
Zakim, who's on the phone?
14:33:14 [Zakim]
On the phone I see AndyS, DanC, Kendall_Clark, EliasT, Libby_Miller, [IPcaller], [IPcaller.a]
14:33:25 [SteveH]
Zakim, IPcaller is me
14:33:25 [Zakim]
+SteveH; got it
14:33:39 [EnricoFranconi]
zakim, IPcaller.a is me
14:33:39 [Zakim]
+EnricoFranconi; got it
14:33:54 [DanC]
-> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2006JanMar/att-0042/05-01-minutes.html minutes 5 Jan
14:34:19 [DanC]
Zakim, who's on the phone?
14:34:19 [Zakim]
On the phone I see AndyS, DanC, Kendall_Clark, EliasT, Libby_Miller, SteveH, EnricoFranconi
14:34:42 [DanC]
regrets: Jeen Broekstra
14:34:47 [SteveH]
RESOLVED to accept minuites of 5 Jan as record of previous meeting
14:35:06 [sd]
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14:35:33 [ericP]
zakim, please dial Hugo-617
14:35:33 [Zakim]
ok, ericP; the call is being made
14:35:34 [DanC]
PROPOSED: to meet next Thu 12 Jan 1600Z. scribe?
14:35:34 [Zakim]
+Hugo
14:35:54 [DanC]
Zakim, pick a scribe
14:35:54 [Zakim]
Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose EliasT
14:36:04 [Jos_De_Roo]
Jos_De_Roo has joined #dawg
14:36:09 [ericP]
zakim, Hugo is temporarily ericP
14:36:09 [Zakim]
+ericP; got it
14:36:09 [libby]
too late!
14:36:24 [DanC]
RESOLVED: to meet next Thu 12 Jan 1600Z. scribe: Elias
14:36:36 [Zakim]
+Jos_De_Roo
14:36:45 [DanC]
you might check your calendar for 17Jan, libby
14:37:24 [patH]
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14:37:26 [AndyS]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/semantic-web/2006Jan/0086.html
14:37:33 [DanC]
Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2006JanMar/0047.html
14:37:48 [Zakim]
+PatH
14:38:00 [kendallclark]
happy birthday jos!
14:38:11 [Zakim]
-EnricoFranconi
14:38:25 [kendallclark]
A Chimay on us, Jos!
14:38:31 [Jos_De_Roo]
thanks to all!!!
14:38:51 [DanC]
Zakim, next item
14:38:51 [Zakim]
agendum 2. "issues#wsdlAbstractProtocol" taken up [from DanC]
14:39:30 [DanC]
KC reports progress in http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2006JanMar/0048.html
14:39:48 [DanC]
sparql-protocol-query.wsdl,v 1.15 2006/01/09 19:59:32
14:40:04 [ericP]
SteveH, can you do a quick update and build the tests?
14:40:21 [SteveH]
ericP, no, sorry, my machine is in eadth-swap
14:40:56 [ericP]
I'll try on spam.w3.org
14:41:29 [DanC]
KC: there are now 2 bindings
14:41:36 [SerT]
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14:43:30 [patH]
fine
14:43:38 [SteveH]
kendall: WSDL and working groups understanding are now in sync (?)
14:43:50 [DanC]
RRSAgent, pointer?
14:43:50 [RRSAgent]
See http://www.w3.org/2006/01/10-dawg-irc#T14-43-50
14:44:01 [SerT]
I'm logged in
14:44:10 [kendallclark]
If you want all the gory details, see the checkin message for 1.16
14:44:11 [Zakim]
+[IPcaller]
14:44:14 [SerT]
hi everybody
14:44:16 [patH]
hi sergio
14:44:24 [EnricoFranconi]
zakim, IPcaller is me
14:44:24 [Zakim]
+EnricoFranconi; got it
14:44:34 [kendallclark]
I was hoping to ask Hugo and someone in DAWG for review.
14:44:37 [patH]
hi enrico
14:44:45 [Zakim]
+[IBMCambridge]
14:44:46 [LeeF]
zakim, IBMCambridge is temporarily LeeF
14:44:47 [Zakim]
+LeeF; got it
14:45:27 [kendallclark]
LeeF: http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/proto-wd/sparql-protocol-query.wsdl
14:45:49 [LeeF]
thx
14:46:52 [DanC]
Zakim, mute EnricoFranconi
14:46:52 [Zakim]
EnricoFranconi should now be muted
14:47:12 [SteveH]
kendall: 2 things about the design that are not obvious: cant have a conformant SPARQL service that returns N3 (or anything other than RDF/XML for graphs)
14:47:43 [SteveH]
kendall: if it accepts an XML query format, thats not legal either
14:48:07 [SteveH]
kendall: need to create new binding and interface if you want to do that
14:49:31 [SteveH]
kendall: can say it returns application/*, or list the return type explicitly
14:50:24 [kendallclark]
zakim, mute me
14:50:24 [Zakim]
Kendall_Clark should now be muted
14:50:57 [AndyS]
DanC: N3 designers may be after text/*
14:50:59 [kendallclark]
sorry, I missed Pat's comments ;>
14:51:14 [kendallclark]
I'm happy to list more IMTs explicitly
14:51:50 [kendallclark]
zakim, unmute me
14:51:50 [Zakim]
Kendall_Clark should no longer be muted
14:51:52 [SteveH]
DanC: I think it should be */*
14:53:57 [SteveH]
PatH: agree that its asymmetric (in v's out variation), but dont want multiple input formats
14:54:22 [SteveH]
DanC: you have to be prepared to throw away in/out puts that you dont understand
14:54:40 [Zakim]
+Bijan_Parsia
14:55:51 [SteveH]
AndyS: input serialisation is about the wrapper, not the query string (?)
14:56:27 [patH]
for the record, I'd like multi formats both ways. BUt I think asymmetry with one end freee is betr than both ends constrained.
14:56:42 [SteveH]
patH, sorry! misunderstood
14:56:45 [patH]
OK
14:58:55 [kendallclark]
2.2.1.11 is an example
15:02:07 [SteveH]
[p]
15:02:59 [SteveH]
Danc: want to put the WSDL protocol question on thursday
15:03:30 [ericP-telnet]
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15:03:59 [SteveH]
kendall: will add */* to the output serialisations
15:04:36 [AndyS]
DanC is correct - I was working through the issues.
15:05:09 [kendallclark]
LeeF
15:05:12 [SteveH]
thx
15:05:36 [SteveH]
LeeF: SOAP is left as RDF/XML root element, with contents unconstrained
15:05:46 [AndyS]
One is that we say in rq23 that "A SPARQL query string is a Unicode character string ... in the language defined by the following grammar".
15:06:18 [ericP-telnet]
having irc client challenges -- using telnet
15:06:36 [SteveH]
LeeF: thats the only way you could return content, eg. put N3 in RDF root element as text
15:07:30 [SteveH]
kendall: group of people who want to use SOAP probably dont overlap much with people who want to use N3
15:07:48 [DanC]
ACTION KC: refine .wsdl description w.r.t. mime types
15:08:00 [ericP]
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15:08:43 [DanC]
ericp, re-poke re policy foo
15:08:44 [kendallclark]
BTW, this action: review sparql-types for xs:any weirdness is finally DONE
15:08:50 [ericP-telnet]
will do
15:09:09 [DanC]
Zakim, next item
15:09:09 [Zakim]
agendum 3. "Toward updated protocol WD (and results format WD)" taken up [from DanC]
15:09:54 [kendallclark]
(I say "no work has been done" as the slackerist WG member! :>)
15:10:01 [DanC]
ACTION: EliasT to recruit somebody to try out the protocol test harness, perhaps from the -comments list [DONE]
15:10:30 [DanC]
Elias: looks like Richard and I should have something next week
15:11:18 [SteveH]
EliasT: just have to update the python tests to be insync with joseki
15:11:19 [ericP-telnet]
ACTION: EricP to pester W3C folks about unified comments on security and policy
15:12:07 [SteveH]
EliasT: mostly read automatically from spec, but there are some that are purposly broken (includes ...)
15:13:13 [LeeF]
I will.
15:13:27 [LeeF]
Elias will point me to the example in question.
15:13:50 [LeeF]
I've got an hour to kill writing long, creative SPARQL queries.
15:13:53 [kendallclark]
I just don't have time to be more creative! :>
15:14:03 [AndyS]
SPARQL allows duplicate triple patterns - it can be :s :p :o x1000
15:14:08 [SteveH]
DanC: the exmaple should cross the traditional URL length limit
15:14:51 [DanC]
ACTION: Jeen try to reproduces EliasT's protocol testing results [CONTINUES]
15:14:57 [DanC]
Zakim, next item
15:14:57 [Zakim]
agendum 4. "protocol testing update" taken up [from DanC]
15:15:02 [DanC]
Zakim, close item 4
15:15:02 [Zakim]
agendum 4, protocol testing update, closed
15:15:03 [Zakim]
I see 4 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
15:15:04 [Zakim]
5. issues#rdfSemantics, issues#owlDisjunction [from DanC]
15:15:08 [DanC]
Zakim, next item
15:15:08 [Zakim]
agendum 5. "issues#rdfSemantics, issues#owlDisjunction" taken up [from DanC]
15:15:32 [EnricoFranconi]
zakim, unmute me
15:15:32 [Zakim]
EnricoFranconi should no longer be muted
15:16:04 [SteveH]
patH: 2nd mail is not sent yet
15:16:11 [DanC]
Subject: bnodeification (was: Re: SPARQL semantics: open issues for basic query patterns)
15:16:11 [DanC]
Date: Mon, 9 Jan 2006 17:27:19 -0600
15:16:27 [SteveH]
patH: mail num. 1 goes beyond the action item because theres a proposal in there
15:17:47 [SteveH]
patH: allows extra redundancy in the answer set, in order to maintain the simplicity of the definitions, but there is a way to reduce the redundancy
15:17:50 [LeeF]
EnricoFranconi: latest definitions are not the same as original subgraph matching definitions
15:19:45 [SteveH]
Zakim, mute me
15:19:45 [Zakim]
SteveH should now be muted
15:20:31 [SteveH]
Zakim, unmute me
15:20:31 [Zakim]
SteveH should no longer be muted
15:21:58 [SteveH]
EnricoFranconi: it is important for interoperability that services should return same answers from a lean and non-lean graph (?)
15:24:05 [Souri]
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15:24:43 [LeeF_]
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15:25:37 [LeeF_]
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15:25:48 [DanC]
Pat, Enrico, I need to start wrapping up (unless I hear a proposal to extend)
15:27:48 [DanC]
ACTION: PatH revise Enrico's "Proposed changes" on matching and entailment for solution sequences, esp w.r.t. RDFmerge/order [CONTINUES]
15:27:54 [ericP]
keep going, guys!
15:27:58 [SteveH]
patH: almost done with action, but not quite
15:27:59 [DanC]
ACTION: Enrico to review draft text on matching and entailment for solution sequences [CONTINUES]
15:28:24 [Souri]
(just fyi) Folks at our org have some comments that we hope to post by end of this week
15:28:55 [DanC]
ACTION: Bijan to elaborate on test/example of foaf query where bnodes cross answers
15:29:12 [DanC]
-- continues
15:29:14 [DanC]
(I presume)
15:31:05 [DanC]
-> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2006JanMar/0030.html from Enrico
15:31:22 [DanC]
Enrico confirms that's current from him
15:31:25 [EnricoFranconi]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2006JanMar/0030.html\
15:31:31 [DanC]
Bijan proposes Andy incorporate that
15:31:50 [LeeF_]
extend
15:31:53 [SteveH]
i need to go
15:32:11 [SteveH]
ericP: will take over scribing
15:32:26 [LeeF_]
bye, SteveH
15:32:28 [Zakim]
-SteveH
15:32:52 [EnricoFranconi]
sorry about that
15:33:11 [EnricoFranconi]
yes
15:33:37 [ericP]
Enrico: the content of 0030 is roughly correct, but PatH is welcome to tinker with it
15:33:58 [ericP]
Andy: this is clear except for result sets
15:34:03 [DanC]
AndyS: I see how to incorproate 0030 , save for results set...
15:34:09 [ericP]
PatH: I can add some explanatory text
15:34:17 [ericP]
... for result sets
15:34:32 [EnricoFranconi]
ok for me
15:34:56 [ericP]
PatH: may I s/RDF merge/ordered merge/ ?
15:35:02 [SerT]
sure
15:35:45 [SerT]
BTW ordered merge could be used to give a precise definition to the CONSTRUCT operator
15:35:56 [AndyS]
Noted
15:36:27 [ericP]
DanC: Andy, the text you incorporate will say "no" to PPS's use case?
15:36:30 [ericP]
AndyS: yes
15:37:03 [ericP]
Bijan: re redundancy on answer sets, does that affect distinct?
15:37:34 [EnricoFranconi]
distinct and redundancy are different issues, I believe
15:38:12 [patH]
I agree.
15:38:28 [ericP]
Bijan: so DISTINCT operates over syntactic redundancy, not logical redundancy
15:38:40 [LeeF_]
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15:39:17 [DanC]
ACTION: Bijan to elaborate on test/example of foaf query where bnodes cross answers [DONE]
15:39:35 [ericP]
action -1
15:39:37 [DanC]
Pat's msg of Mon, 9 Jan 2006 17:27:19 -0600 discharges bijan's action
15:39:48 [ericP]
action -8
15:40:10 [Zakim]
-Bijan_Parsia
15:40:18 [ericP]
ACTION: KC to refine .wsdl description w.r.t. mime types
15:40:23 [ericP]
action -7
15:40:41 [Zakim]
+Bijan_Parsia
15:40:50 [EnricoFranconi_]
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15:40:52 [LeeF]
LeeF has joined #dawg
15:41:11 [AndyS]
""A test passes if the graph from the action is logically equivalent to the graph named in the result.""
15:41:15 [ericP]
zakim, who is speaking?
15:41:18 [Zakim]
-Bijan_Parsia
15:41:20 [DanC]
ACTION DanC: review test README re "logically equivalent" vs graph equivalent
15:41:26 [Zakim]
ericP, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: AndyS (5%), Bijan_Parsia (11%), DanC (41%), ericP (4%)
15:41:35 [DanC]
ADJOURN.
15:41:44 [Zakim]
-Jos_De_Roo
15:41:47 [Zakim]
-EliasT
15:41:50 [Zakim]
-PatH
15:41:53 [Zakim]
-Libby_Miller
15:41:54 [patH]
quit
15:42:01 [Souri]
quit
15:42:12 [Zakim]
-Kendall_Clark
15:42:24 [AndyS]
AndyS has left #dawg
15:44:05 [ericP]
rrsagent, please draft minutes
15:44:05 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2006/01/10-dawg-minutes.html ericP
15:47:24 [EnricoFranconi]
EnricoFranconi has joined #dawg
15:48:51 [EnricoFranconi]
bye all!
15:49:00 [Zakim]
-EnricoFranconi
15:49:21 [LeeF]
bye, EnricoFranconi
15:49:40 [SerT]
bye everybody
15:50:11 [SerT]
SerT has left #dawg
15:50:58 [Zakim]
-DanC
15:51:47 [ericP]
2006-01-07T20:19:40Z <bjoern_> so if you have a normative statement that character references must represent legal XML 1.1 Chars, and an informative note that [^...] excludes anything that is not a Char per XML 1.1, I'd be happy
15:52:46 [afs_]
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15:52:55 [ericP]
2006-01-07T20:19:40Z <bjoern_> so if you have a normative statement that character references must represent legal XML 1.1 Chars, and an informative note that [^...] excludes anything that is not a Char per XML 1.1, I'd be happy
15:59:10 [Zakim]
-LeeF
15:59:13 [LeeF]
LeeF has left #dawg
16:13:46 [Zakim]
-AndyS
16:13:51 [Zakim]
-ericP
16:13:53 [Zakim]
SW_DAWG()9:30AM has ended
16:13:54 [Zakim]
Attendees were AndyS, DanC, Kendall_Clark, Libby_Miller, EliasT, SteveH, EnricoFranconi, ericP, Jos_De_Roo, PatH, LeeF, Bijan_Parsia
16:14:19 [ericP]
RRSAgent, leave us
16:14:19 [RRSAgent]
I see 7 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2006/01/10-dawg-actions.rdf :
16:14:19 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: EliasT to recruit somebody to try out the protocol test harness, perhaps from the -comments list [DONE] [2]
16:14:19 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/01/10-dawg-irc#T15-10-01
16:14:19 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: EricP to pester W3C folks about unified comments on security and policy [3]
16:14:19 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/01/10-dawg-irc#T15-11-19
16:14:19 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: Jeen try to reproduces EliasT's protocol testing results [CONTINUES] [4]
16:14:19 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/01/10-dawg-irc#T15-14-51
16:14:19 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: PatH revise Enrico's "Proposed changes" on matching and entailment for solution sequences, esp w.r.t. RDFmerge/order [CONTINUES] [5]
16:14:19 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/01/10-dawg-irc#T15-27-48
16:14:19 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: Enrico to review draft text on matching and entailment for solution sequences [CONTINUES] [6]
16:14:19 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/01/10-dawg-irc#T15-27-59
16:14:19 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: KC to refine .wsdl description w.r.t. mime types [9]
16:14:19 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/01/10-dawg-irc#T15-40-18
16:14:19 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: DanC to review test README re "logically equivalent" vs graph equivalent [10]
16:14:19 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/01/10-dawg-irc#T15-41-20