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14:55:58 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2005/12/13-swbp-irc
14:56:09 <RalphS> Meeting: RDF-in-XHTML Task Force
15:03:25 <RalphS> Previous: 2005-12-06 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2005Dec/0008.html
15:03:56 <RalphS> -> http://www.w3.org/2005/12/06-swbp-minutes 2005-12-06 meeting record
15:04:06 <RalphS> rrsagent, please make this record public
15:04:26 <benadida> benadida has joined #swbp
15:04:55 <Zakim> SW_BPD(rdfxhtml)10:00AM has now started
15:05:01 <Zakim> +Ben_Adida
15:05:30 <Zakim> +Ralph
15:05:41 <Zakim> -Ben_Adida
15:05:49 <Zakim> +Ben_Adida
15:06:05 <Zakim> +??P30
15:06:19 <Zakim> +??P31
15:06:20 <jeremy> jeremy has joined #swbp
15:06:44 <RalphS> zakim, ??p30 is Jeremy
15:06:44 <Zakim> +Jeremy; got it
15:06:49 <RalphS> zakim, ??p31 is Mark
15:06:49 <Zakim> +Mark; got it
15:08:40 <jeremy> AOB item: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swbp-wg/2005Dec/0056
15:08:56 <RalphS> Chair: Ben
15:08:59 <jeremy> discusses #fragIDs in RDF/XML and HTML
15:09:28 <RalphS> agenda+ Schedule Review
15:09:37 <RalphS> agenda+ New draft of RDF/A primer
15:09:58 <RalphS> agenda+ SPARQL and URIs
15:10:48 <RalphS> zakim, take up agendum 3
15:10:48 <Zakim> agendum 3. "SPARQL and URIs" taken up [from RalphS]
15:11:02 <RalphS> -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg-comments/2005Dec/0018.html QName production in SPARQL grammar [Jeremy 2005-12-13]
15:11:44 <RalphS> Jeremy: in my message to DAWG I only noted some of the QName syntax restrictions, not all the restrictions that we care about in RDF/A
15:12:13 <RalphS> ... SPARQL appears to have taken the syntax for QNames from XML 1.1 spec and mangled it a little
15:12:41 <RalphS> ... I suggested to them that they mangle it more, though we [in CURIEs] mangle it a lot more
15:13:20 <RalphS> ... larger question about "what is a namespace URI"; reference to namespace names in SPARQL spec is clearly meant to be informative, not normative
15:13:53 <RalphS> ... I don't really care whether SPARQL chooses to allow a digit after ':' but it's chipping away at the issue
15:14:42 <RalphS> ... SPARQL appears to be the first normative use of QNames as derived from the Turtle and N3 heritage
15:15:35 <RalphS> ... it is thus an opportunity to raise the issue formally
15:17:16 <RalphS> ... DanC did ask whether the [RDF-in-XHTML] Task Force has a position
15:21:29 <benadida> RalphS: WG discussion, during TF update for RDF-in-XHTML
15:21:52 <benadida> ... told WG where 3 documents would end up, with primer the only published doc by SWBPD
15:22:11 <benadida> ... Guus pushing all TFs to publish their docs before end of jan
15:22:34 <benadida> ... the Primer will include more rationale for CURIEs
15:22:55 <benadida> ... we will be asking the WG for opinion on CURIEs
15:23:00 <benadida> ... Guus was skeptical
15:23:28 <benadida> ... requested that CURIE piece be modular (so it could be removed?)
15:23:37 <benadida> ... he may have somewhat backed off of that
15:23:50 <benadida> ... more importantly, the Primer should be written for readers who are not experts.
15:24:13 <benadida> ... this is in agreement with our previous discussions within the TF
15:24:32 <benadida> ... this led to a longer discussion about CURIEs
15:24:41 <benadida> ... about how important CURIEs are.
15:25:10 <benadida> ... Jeremy and I cited the number of features that would be lost without CURIEs.
15:25:31 <benadida> ... there was some discussion within the WG, and we should anticipate more of this discussion from the WG
15:26:57 <RalphS> Jeremy: in Guus's role as chair, it's appropriate for him to express skepticism about including material that may be controversial
15:27:07 <benadida> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/BestPractices/HTML/2006-01-15-rdfa-primer
15:27:21 <RalphS> zakim, move to agendum 2
15:27:21 <Zakim> agendum 2. "New draft of RDF/A primer" taken up [from RalphS]
15:27:33 <MarkB> MarkB has joined #swbp
15:27:35 <benadida> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/BestPractices/HTML/2006-01-15-rdfa-primer
15:27:58 <RalphS> $Id: 13-swbp-irc.txt,v 1.28 2005/12/13 18:09:41 swick Exp $
15:28:14 <RalphS> Ben: I've tried to follow one thread through the examples
15:29:21 <RalphS> ... if we don't mention bnodes or reification then the justification for CURIEs is not as clear
15:30:20 <RalphS> -> http://www.w3.org/2005/12/12-swbp-irc#T19-03-56 RDF-in-HTML TF discussion in yesterday's SWBPD WG telecon
15:31:13 <RalphS> Jeremy: Table of Contents appears to address Guus' concern that the advanced material, e.g. CURIEs, be later in the document
15:31:47 <RalphS> Mark: we could refer to "compact URI" in the early part of the document before we introduce the term "CURIE"
15:32:17 <RalphS> Ben: I took special care to keep it simple, specifically not referring to jargon such as "qname"
15:33:21 <RalphS> Mark: it's good to keep things simple in the first part of the document, however anyone who is XML-literate will assume those abbreviations are QNames
15:33:34 <RalphS> ... the current version is still very RDF-oriented
15:33:59 <RalphS> ... another motivation of RDF/A is to encourage authors to mark-up HTML documents so that we can extract more triples from them
15:36:26 <RalphS> ... perhaps adding another scenario to illustrate this rather than overloading the Shutr scenario
15:37:01 <RalphS> ... I have hundreds of examples from HTML that I'd like to see people do and am willing to write another section
15:39:10 <RalphS> ... perhaps a much slower build-up, not introducing N3 results as quickly
15:39:34 <RalphS> ... perhaps a person's home page that gets linked into Shutr later
15:40:21 <RalphS> Jeremy: the current document is an easy read for those who live and breathe triples
15:41:28 <RalphS> ... for others who understand something about semantics and are happy to add more semantics but aren't thinking in triples, it would be nice to introduce this in a way that says we're showing how to tell what a document is about
15:45:11 <RalphS> Ben: I'd like to keep the write baton until the end of the week then turn it over to Mark for 2 weeks
15:48:14 <RalphS> Ben: the editing form is http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/BestPractices/HTML/2006-01-15-rdfa-primer.xml
15:51:37 <RalphS> Ralph: as we all can see the xmlspec version nicely formatted, we can trash the HTML version while we're in editing mode
15:58:19 <RalphS> Jeremy: Gary NG and David Booth have agreed to review the primer if we send it to the WG by 9 January
15:58:36 <RalphS> zakim, take up agendum 1
15:58:36 <Zakim> agendum 1. "Schedule Review" taken up [from RalphS]
15:59:10 <RalphS> -> http://www.w3.org/2005/12/12-swbp-irc#T19-18-43 reviewer commitment
16:00:28 <Zakim> -Mark
16:01:06 <RalphS> next meeting: 3 Jan
16:01:07 <MarkB> Main thing is that next week will probably be hectic due to trying finish off things for customers before Xmas.
16:01:16 <RalphS> Ralph and Mark will communicate via email
16:02:08 <RalphS> Ben: want to review the issues list and propose status for each of them, possibly deferring some
16:03:51 <Zakim> -Ralph
16:03:52 <Zakim> -Jeremy
16:03:54 <Zakim> -Ben_Adida
16:03:55 <Zakim> SW_BPD(rdfxhtml)10:00AM has ended
16:03:56 <Zakim> Attendees were Ben_Adida, Ralph, Jeremy, Mark
16:04:18 <RalphS> rrsagent, please draft minutes
16:04:18 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2005/12/13-swbp-minutes.html RalphS
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18:09:34 <RalphS> rrsagent, bye
18:09:34 <RRSAgent> I see no action items