IRC log of dawg on 2005-11-22

Timestamps are in UTC.

14:23:11 [RRSAgent]
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14:23:11 [RRSAgent]
logging to
14:23:24 [ericP]
meeting: Data Access Working Group
14:23:34 [ericP]
Scribe: KendallC
14:23:40 [ericP]
Chair: DanC
14:23:57 [ericP]
andy, want to start up early and chat a bit?
14:24:17 [LeeF]
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14:26:22 [ericP]
zakim, please dial ericP-617.2
14:26:22 [Zakim]
ok, ericP; the call is being made
14:26:23 [Zakim]
SW_DAWG()9:30AM has now started
14:26:24 [Zakim]
14:28:17 [DanC]
Zakim, take up item 1
14:28:17 [Zakim]
I see nothing on the agenda
14:28:29 [DanC]
agenda + Convene, take roll, review records and agenda
14:28:32 [Zakim]
14:28:38 [DanC]
agenda + QL Conformance
14:28:46 [DanC]
agenda + issues#punctuationSyntax (decimal/double)
14:28:48 [Zakim]
14:28:53 [DanC]
agenda + toward SPARQL QL updated WD
14:29:01 [DanC]
agenda + issues#wsdlAbstractProtocol
14:29:08 [DanC]
agenda + Security Considerations
14:29:16 [DanC]
agenda + issues#rdfSemantics
14:29:25 [DanC]
agenda + comment: SPARQL Results Format and Unbound Variables
14:29:32 [DanC]
agenda + Toward CR
14:29:40 [Zakim]
14:29:40 [DanC]
agenda + protocol testing update
14:29:48 [DanC]
agenda + test suite maintenance
14:29:50 [JanneS]
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14:30:05 [Zakim]
14:30:42 [DanC]
Regrets+ Souripriya Das
14:30:55 [Zakim]
14:31:35 [DanC]
the 4 level headings are a pain, IMO. how about promoting some stuff so there are only 4 levels, ericp?
14:32:02 [AndyS]
Partial regrets: AndyS here until 15:00Z only
14:32:12 [DanC]
Zakim, who's talking?
14:32:23 [Zakim]
DanC, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Andy_Seaborne (66%), EricP (42%)
14:32:35 [Zakim]
14:32:35 [kendallclark]
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14:33:00 [patH]
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14:33:11 [DanC]
Zakim, take up item 1
14:33:11 [Zakim]
agendum 1. "Convene, take roll, review records and agenda" taken up [from DanC]
14:33:42 [DanC]
agenda + plain literals and xsd:strings
14:33:48 [Zakim]
14:33:52 [JanneS]
I'm trying to call in - problems with skype (again). I'll be muted most of the time due to baby-sitting I have to do in parallel.
14:33:55 [DanC]
-> minutes 15 Nov
14:34:12 [DanC]
ammendment: Souripriya Das was there
14:34:21 [Zakim]
14:34:33 [ericP]
14:34:38 [ericP]
zakim, please dial ericP-617.2
14:34:38 [Zakim]
ok, ericP; the call is being made
14:34:40 [Zakim]
14:34:48 [ericP]
i was using that phone...
14:36:01 [DanC]
RESOLVED to approve minutes 15 Nov, noting older actions might be missing
14:36:21 [DanC]
regrets: Jeen Broekstra, Steve Harris, Lee Feigenbaum, Libby Miller, Enrico Franconi
14:36:30 [kendallclark]
FWIW, I would have sent regrets if not for scribing. :>
14:36:30 [DanC]
Zakim, who's on the phone?
14:36:30 [Zakim]
On the phone I see EricP, Elias_Torres, Andy_Seaborne, DanC, Kendall_Clark, PatH
14:36:42 [kendallclark]
not feeling well
14:37:41 [DanC]
"29 Nov conflicts with a W3C staff meeting where DanC and EricP are expected; cancel?"
14:38:02 [DanC]
RESOLVED: to cancel 29 Nov.
14:38:14 [DanC]
6 Dec conflicts with a TAG meeting; EricP to chair? scribe volunteer?
14:38:16 [kendallclark]
6 Dec conflicts with TAG meeting
14:38:21 [kendallclark]
EricP chairing
14:38:52 [kendallclark]
EliasT to scribe (with KC backing)
14:38:57 [DanC]
RESOLVED: to meet next 6 Dec; ericp to chair; regrets DanC; Elias to scribe (or find scribe)
14:39:18 [DanC]
14:39:24 [DanC]
(hmm... should archive a text copy)
14:39:28 [DanC]
Zakim, next item
14:39:29 [Zakim]
agendum 2. "QL Conformance" taken up [from DanC]
14:39:46 [DanC]
14:40:01 [DanC]
. with "successful"
14:40:05 [Zakim]
14:40:24 [JanneS]
Zakim, IPcaller is JanneS
14:40:24 [Zakim]
+JanneS; got it
14:42:52 [kendallclark]
I'm happy leaving that to various language communities, say.
14:43:17 [kendallclark]
EricP prefers to mention APIs (in the protocol spec, presumably)
14:43:46 [kendallclark]
Not mentioning API conformance doesn't help anyone, according to EricP
14:43:48 [Zakim]
14:44:14 [DanC]
perhaps: Note that the SPARQL protocol describes an abstract interface as well as a network protocol, and the abstract interface may apply to APIs as well as network interfaces.
14:44:26 [JosD]
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14:50:35 [LeeF]
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14:50:53 [AndyS]
Conformance for SPARQL/Q = all of the doc ? DanC's text just moves that to via the protocol. Eric's use of "successful" really applies to a query *request* because it says "processed"
14:52:44 [kendallclark]
can we move past what Eric wrote?
14:58:00 [DanC]
14:58:01 [DanC]
perhaps: Note that the SPARQL protocol describes an abstract interface as well as a network protocol, and the abstract interface may apply to APIs as well as network interfaces.
14:59:34 [kendallclark]
(Late arriving regrets from YoshioF)
15:02:20 [DanC]
... apply to APIs or software modules ...
15:02:26 [Zakim]
15:02:34 [DanC]
hasta, AndyS
15:02:59 [DanC]
Zakim, next item
15:02:59 [Zakim]
agendum 3. "issues#punctuationSyntax (decimal/double)" taken up [from DanC]
15:04:33 [DanC]
ACTION: DanC to ask DaveB about turtle (in progress; almost done) [CONTINUES].
15:05:09 [DanC]
ACTION: AndyS to update rq23 to reflect double => decimal progress/done. test impact? [continues]
15:05:27 [Zakim]
15:05:37 [DanC]
Zakim, next item
15:05:37 [Zakim]
agendum 4. "toward SPARQL QL updated WD" taken up [from DanC]
15:07:53 [kendallclark]
Going to webmaster today or tomorrow
15:08:58 [DanC]
ACTION EricP: solicit review of SPARQL mime type(s) in ietf-types, esp after next QL pub
15:09:06 [ericP]
15:09:28 [ericP]
15:09:29 [ericP]
When doing the W3C Last Call announcement: Send an email to the mailing list asking for comments on the Media Type section of your specification:
15:09:32 [ericP]
15:09:55 [DanC]
ugh... should say "at or before"
15:10:08 [DanC]
Zakim, next item
15:10:08 [Zakim]
agendum 5. "issues#wsdlAbstractProtocol" taken up [from DanC]
15:10:34 [DanC]
-> Double binding of a WSDL 2.0 operation
15:11:20 [DanC]
15:11:32 [DanC]
The suggested work-round is to provide two separate HTTP bindings,
15:11:32 [DanC]
and therefore two separate endpoints, one for each HTTP method.]
15:11:32 [DanC]
15:15:38 [DanC]
(don't expect The Director to do technical review, btw; The Director's job is to assess consensus once the community has done technical review.)
15:16:18 [DanC]
DONE: ACTION: DanC to notifty DAWG of WSDL response to our WSDL comments.
15:16:36 [DanC]
ACTION: KendallC to propose revised WSDL descripton of SPARQL protocol [CONTINUES]
15:16:51 [DanC]
ACTION KC: review sparql-types for xs:any weirdness, w.r.t. WSDL 2.0 constraints [CONTINUES]
15:17:10 [DanC]
ACTION: KendallC to remove uses of "my" in URIs in protocol spec
15:17:15 [DanC]
-- continues
15:18:06 [DanC]
Zakim, next item
15:18:06 [Zakim]
agendum 6. "Security Considerations" taken up [from DanC]
15:18:22 [DanC]
ACTION: KendallC to add a modified version of to protocol editor's draft, as well as a pointer to the section in rq23 itself [continues]
15:19:28 [DanC]
ACTION EricP: coordinate W3C staff input on privacy section
15:20:10 [DanC]
Zakim, next item
15:20:10 [Zakim]
agendum 7. "issues#rdfSemantics" taken up [from DanC]
15:20:29 [DanC]
ACTION: PatH to review The Semantics of SPARQL [done]
15:20:39 [DanC]
ACTION: PatH to sketch tests that characterize impact of semantics work
15:21:54 [DanC]
15:22:02 [kendallclark]
Which is super helpful of him, ;>
15:22:18 [DanC]
-> pfps's comment, including test case sketch
15:22:56 [DanC]
PatH will tell us how that test works
15:23:40 [DanC]
Zakim, next item
15:23:40 [Zakim]
agendum 8. "comment: SPARQL Results Format and Unbound Variables" taken up [from DanC]
15:24:15 [kendallclark]
there's no normal xml!
15:26:12 [Zakim]
15:32:05 [kendallclark]
i think it's in 3 weeks, dan :>
15:32:40 [DanC]
15:32:40 [kendallclark]
15:32:48 [Zakim]
15:32:55 [DanC]
RRSAgent, please draft minutes
15:32:55 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate DanC
15:33:06 [DanC]
RRSAgent, make logs world-access
15:33:33 [Zakim]
15:33:37 [Zakim]
15:37:51 [EliasT]
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15:38:00 [LeeF]
Good day, gentlemen.
15:38:03 [LeeF]
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15:38:14 [patH]
Bye, all.
15:44:55 [AndyS]
Re: Decimal/Double - what was concluded about the tests? Were they approved? Can I change them?
15:57:23 [ericP]
15:58:30 [ericP]
Each item in the atomic sequence that is of type xdt:untypedAtomic is cast to the expected atomic type. For built-in functions where the expected type is specified as numeric, arguments of type xdt:untypedAtomic are cast to xs:double.
15:59:41 [ericP]
[[ Arithmetic Expressions
15:59:42 [ericP]
15:59:42 [ericP]
If the atomized operand is of type xdt:untypedAtomic, it is cast to xs:double. If the cast fails, a dynamic error is raised. [err:FORG0001]
15:59:45 [ericP]
16:00:28 [ericP]
[[ 3.5.1 Value Comparisons
16:00:41 [ericP]
4. If the atomized operand is of type xdt:untypedAtomic, it is cast to xs:string.
16:00:42 [ericP]
16:01:52 [ericP]
[[ 3.5.2 General Comparisons
16:02:39 [ericP]
... lots...
16:02:40 [ericP]
16:09:18 [AndyS]
Re: RIF and CONSTRUCt * opt 3:
16:09:43 [AndyS]
I don't see RIF doing a dataset serialization format so I didn't understand the argument.
16:10:19 [AndyS]
Opt 3 actaully requires quite a lot of tinkering with CONSTRUCT templates - yuk.
16:11:35 [ericP]
16:13:39 [AndyS]
xdt:untypedAtomic != xsd:string RDf core decided plain literals were strings and added the D-entailment.
16:16:28 [ericP]
oof, interesting point
16:22:52 [AndyS]
16:23:16 [AndyS]
YOu say "if we include a graph ..." - don't grok - we already include a graph.
16:23:58 [ericP]
2005-10-11T15:48:08Z <DanC> POLL: on return from datatype("abc"): (a) type error (b) either type error or xsd:string (c) sparql:pla\
16:24:01 [ericP]
in (d) "" (e) always xsd:string
16:26:36 [DanC]
<li>clarified that "abc" is not in the domain of datatype("abc")</li>
16:26:45 [DanC]
<li>clarified that "abc" is not in the domain of datatype()</li>
16:27:56 [DanC]
revised Query Term Syntax details regarding redefined namespace prefixes (@@change or clarification? relevant tests?)
16:32:20 [ericP]
A prefix binding applies to any QNames in the query with that prefix; a prefix may be defined only once.
16:34:29 [DanC]
<p class="issue">@@note constraint on prefix redeclaration</p>
16:34:47 [ericP]
16:35:29 [ericP]
<a href="#QTSynIRI">prefix redeclaration</a>
16:36:02 [DanC]
<p class="issue">@@note constraint on prefix redeclaration from <a href="#QTSynIRI">Syntax of IRI Terms</a></p>
16:41:34 [Zakim]
16:41:37 [Zakim]
16:41:38 [Zakim]
SW_DAWG()9:30AM has ended
16:41:40 [Zakim]
Attendees were EricP, Elias_Torres, Andy_Seaborne, DanC, Kendall_Clark, PatH, JanneS, Jos_De_Roo
16:43:16 [DanC]
oh, eric, you copied my poor-man's hypertext rather literally:
16:43:18 [DanC]
See appendix A grammar regarding conformance of _SPARQL Query strings_
16:43:33 [DanC]
feel free to make those into real hyperlinks before publication
16:53:14 [ericP]
DanC, roger
16:53:37 [ericP]
i got one link op, i think, but was distracted when composing
17:33:49 [Zakim]
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