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13:51:13 <RalphS> Meeting: Vocab Management TF, SWBPD WG
13:51:43 <RalphS> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swbp-wg/2005Nov/0074.html
13:51:50 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #vmtf
13:51:59 <RalphS> zakim, this will be vmtf
13:51:59 <Zakim> ok, RalphS; I see SW_BPD(VMTF)9:00AM scheduled to start in 9 minutes
13:54:23 <tbaker> tbaker has joined #vmtf
13:54:39 <tbaker> hi Ralph!
13:55:52 <RalphS> Chair: Tom
13:56:00 <RalphS> rrsagent, please make this record public
13:57:19 <RalphS> Previous: 2005-10-28 http://www.w3.org/2005/10/28-vmtf-minutes.html
13:58:06 <RalphS> oh shoot -- I forgot to followup with W3C systems folk to confirm they read my invitation to today's telecon
13:58:11 <RalphS> I have no idea who will come
13:58:17 <RalphS> Regrets: DanBri
13:59:01 <Zakim> SW_BPD(VMTF)9:00AM has now started
13:59:09 <Zakim> +Tom_Baker
13:59:20 <Zakim> +Ralph
14:00:35 <Zakim> +??P2
14:01:03 <RalphS> zakim, ??p2 is Alistair
14:01:03 <Zakim> +Alistair; got it
14:02:32 <libby> libby has joined #vmtf
14:05:09 <RalphS> Ralph: apologies; I failed to followup with Matthieu, Vivien, or Ted so I don't have any idea whether or not they expect to come
14:05:38 <RalphS> Tom: can we reschedule for 22 Nov or 6 Dec?
14:05:47 <RalphS> Alistair, Ralph: we're both available then
14:06:27 <Zakim> +Libby_Miller
14:07:19 <RalphS> ACTION: Ralph confirm either 22 Nov or 6 Dec with Matthieu and Ted or propose an alternative
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14:11:04 <aliman> q+ to talk about planning
14:11:09 <RalphS> -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swbp-wg/2005Nov/0078.html "Provenance information" [Tom 2005-11-15]
14:11:25 <Zakim> aliman, you wanted to talk about planning
14:11:53 <RalphS> Regrets+ Bernard
14:12:25 <tbaker> alistair: should we consider goals in lifetime of TF (end January)
14:12:43 <tbaker> maybe unrealistic to get alignment btw FOAF/SKOS/DC by then
14:13:12 <RalphS> Alistair: consider using my draft on configuring Apache as the core of a Working Draft
14:13:37 <tbaker> rather: use http-examples as basis of note?
14:13:52 <tbaker> if we agree content negotiation is the basis, DC doesn't do that yet
14:14:01 <RalphS> Alistair: it would be good for Dublin Core to adopt this practice before we publish
14:14:45 <danbri> [i have started to fiddle with FOAF's apache config,...]
14:14:49 <tbaker> Ralph: I think we should have tested by the time we publish,
14:15:02 <danbri> [also noted Peter Patel-Schneider's comments on Al's text, today]
14:15:03 <tbaker> but not necessarily require that all cases follow the guidelines
14:15:13 <tbaker> DC could be most difficult case
14:15:30 <tbaker> Ralph: not need to wait for DCMI
14:15:55 <tbaker> Alistair: FOAF as slash example and SKOS as hash example?
14:16:10 <tbaker> Alistair: original intention: not publish until we all do same thing
14:16:52 <aliman> q+ to say i have tested the configurations for dummy namespaces
14:17:00 <RalphS> Ralph: if Dublin Core changes now and has to change again based on comments on our draft, how much will that cost us?
14:17:33 <RalphS> Tom: if we're reasonably confident about our recipes I could investigate getting an agreement in principle from DCMI to implement
14:17:52 <RalphS> ... DCMI has an added complication with the purl.org service
14:19:15 <Zakim> aliman, you wanted to say i have tested the configurations for dummy namespaces
14:19:36 <RalphS> Alistair: I've tested all the configurations in the draft with dummy vocabularies
14:19:47 <RalphS> ... with my own apache configuration
14:20:10 <tbaker> q+ to ask danbri about FOAF implementation
14:20:51 <RalphS> ... purl.org configuration will be more complicated because it apparently does not support content-based redirection
14:21:11 <RalphS> Tom: I assume purl.org is merely proxying the request
14:21:54 <RalphS> Alistair: the question is whether the client continues the content negotiaton after the redirect
14:22:37 <RalphS> [I rephrased Tom's comment to 'proxy' which isn't exactly what he said and is misleading]
14:23:12 <danbri> [content-type-based redirs, you mean?]
14:23:33 <RalphS> Tom: I'm worried about whether DCMI would ever be able to properly implement our Note without changes to purl.org
14:23:52 <RalphS> Alistair: I believe it can be handled with one more redirect
14:25:57 <RalphS> ... every time current clients repeat the request they repeat the content negotiation
14:26:10 <RalphS> Ralph: have you tested this?
14:26:19 <RalphS> Alistair: yes, to some degree
14:26:40 <tbaker> Ralph: if it is obvious that this is correct behavior...
14:26:49 <RalphS> Alistair: more accurate to say that clients repeat the Accept: headers
14:26:52 <tbaker> Alistair: they repeatedly deliver the Accept headers
14:27:08 <tbaker> Alistair: each client should keep delivering its accept headers
14:27:15 <tbaker> Ralph: we should make sure this is the case
14:28:30 <RalphS> ACTION: Alistair investigate PURL use case and add to configuration options
14:28:35 <tbaker> ACTION Alistair: add purl.org case to draft note
14:29:01 <Zakim> -Libby_Miller
14:30:26 <RalphS> Ralph: I'd like to test these configurations in the W3C site for due diligence but I would be satisfied with Alistair's testing for first WD
14:31:25 <tbaker> ACTION Ralph check configurations on W3C site
14:31:40 <RalphS> ACTION: Ralph check configurations on W3C site
14:31:43 <tbaker> ACTION Alistair: move draft into VM space
14:31:59 <RalphS> action 4 = Alistair: move draft into VM space as an Editor's Draft
14:32:22 <RalphS> action 5 = Alistair: move draft into VM space as an Editor's Draft
14:32:32 <RalphS> action 4 = Ralph check configurations on W3C site
14:36:16 <tbaker> ACTION Tom: prepare excerpts from last telecon for inclusion in new Editor's Draft
14:36:54 <tbaker> Alistair: let's keep as tightly scoped as possible
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14:38:01 <tbaker> Ralph: a positive thing when @@TODO refs are included in first working draft,
14:38:12 <tbaker> puts those things out there for people to react to
14:39:49 <tbaker> Ralph: no need to artificially try to reach Note status.
14:40:03 <tbaker> Already a contribution if we put the issues into the archive so we 
14:40:10 <tbaker> can continue in next round of charters
14:41:08 <RalphS> Alistair: the WG F2F consensus was that OEP, SKOS, and VM were all important to continue and they had sufficient interdependencies to do them in one WG
14:41:57 <tbaker> Alistair: versioning and change management come to fore in OWL community
14:42:01 <RalphS> ... issues of versioning and change management came up at the OWL Futures Workshop at ISWC
14:42:16 <tbaker> strong dependencies btw continuing OWL work and VM
14:43:15 <RalphS> -> http://isegserv.itd.rl.ac.uk/VM/http-examples/ Configuring Apache HTTP Server for RDFS/OWL Ontologies
14:43:24 <tbaker> tom likes Minimum/Good-practice distinction
14:43:39 <RalphS> Alistair: I categorized into minimal and "good practice" requirements
14:44:32 <tbaker> Ralph: worries about language that says "not possible" to receive response X...
14:44:50 <RalphS> Ralph: I pause over language like "it is not possible to"
14:45:03 <RalphS> Alistair: reasonable to state these as goals
14:46:22 <RalphS> Alistair: provenance is supported by using the final URI from the chain of redirects as the name of the graph
14:46:45 <RalphS> ... so different URIs represent different versions of a vocabulary
14:47:00 <tbaker> Alistair: different URIs for different graphs - different versions
14:47:00 <RalphS> Tom: there is an implied good practice to date-stamp URIs
14:47:41 <tbaker> Alistair: equally reasonable to use a version number (instead of date) for URI
14:47:49 <RalphS> ... will machines be expected to recognize those dates?
14:49:02 <RalphS> ... do we want to explore the use of datestamps, perhaps as a social convention
14:49:36 <RalphS> ... or at least note explicitly that the examples are not meant to be parsed by machine but simply a social convention?
14:50:26 <tbaker> Ralph: as we discovered with RDF, people mimic examples
14:50:52 <RalphS> Ralph: yeah, things we show in our examples will be mimic'd -- we should be careful to document the explicit and implicit semantics of such mimicry
14:52:01 <tbaker> Alistair: no reason you could not have .rdf at end of URI of namespace - should perhaps
14:52:04 <tbaker> say something about this
14:53:26 <tbaker> Ralph: refrain from commenting _too_ much on practices out there
14:56:42 <tbaker> (draft should make clear that location of .rdf and .html files is arbitrary)
15:00:53 <RalphS> next meeting 22 Nov 1400Z
15:01:11 <RalphS> ... then 6 Dec, 20 Dec
15:01:18 <Zakim> -Ralph
15:01:21 <Zakim> -Alistair
15:01:59 <tbaker> I'm still here for the URL of the meeting notes...?
15:02:04 <Zakim> -Tom_Baker
15:02:05 <Zakim> SW_BPD(VMTF)9:00AM has ended
15:02:07 <Zakim> Attendees were Tom_Baker, Ralph, Alistair, Libby_Miller
15:02:16 <RalphS> rrsagent, please draft minutes
15:02:16 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2005/11/15-vmtf-minutes.html RalphS
15:02:39 <tbaker> thank you!
15:02:41 <RalphS> rrsagent, bye
15:02:41 <RRSAgent> I see 6 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2005/11/15-vmtf-actions.rdf :
15:02:41 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Ralph confirm either 22 Nov or 6 Dec with Matthieu and Ted or propose an alternative [1]
15:02:41 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/11/15-vmtf-irc#T14-07-19
15:02:41 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Alistair investigate PURL use case and add to configuration options [2]
15:02:41 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/11/15-vmtf-irc#T14-28-30
15:02:41 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Alistair to add purl.org case to draft note [3]
15:02:41 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/11/15-vmtf-irc#T14-28-35
15:02:41 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Ralph check configurations on W3C site [4]
15:02:41 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/11/15-vmtf-irc#T14-31-40
15:02:41 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Alistair: move draft into VM space as an Editor's Draft [5]
15:02:41 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/11/15-vmtf-irc#T14-31-43
15:02:41 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Tom to prepare excerpts from last telecon for inclusion in new Editor's Draft [6]
15:02:41 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/11/15-vmtf-irc#T14-36-16