IRC log of wai-wcag on 2005-11-10

Timestamps are in UTC.

19:55:47 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #wai-wcag
19:55:47 [RRSAgent]
logging to http://www.w3.org/2005/11/10-wai-wcag-irc
19:55:49 [wendy]
zakim, this will be wcag
19:55:49 [Zakim]
ok, wendy; I see WAI_WCAG()3:00PM scheduled to start in 5 minutes
19:56:04 [David]
David has joined #wai-wcag
19:56:56 [Zakim]
WAI_WCAG()3:00PM has now started
19:57:03 [Zakim]
+??P0
19:57:13 [Christophe]
Christophe has joined #wai-wcag
19:57:13 [David]
test
19:57:40 [jslatinOFHNetIRC]
jslatinOFHNetIRC has joined #wai-wcag
19:57:58 [Zakim]
+David_MacDonald
19:58:03 [jslatinOFHNetIRC]
Hi, all. I'll call in in a minute.
19:58:32 [Zakim]
+Loretta_Guarino_Reid
19:58:59 [Zakim]
+John_Slatin
19:59:23 [Zakim]
+Wendy
19:59:52 [Zakim]
+Christophe_Strobbe
20:00:06 [Zakim]
+ +53477aaaa
20:00:08 [Yvette]
Yvette has joined #wai-wcag
20:00:20 [Zakim]
+Gregg_Vanderheiden
20:00:23 [Yvette]
zakim, who's on the phone?
20:00:23 [Zakim]
On the phone I see ??P0, David_MacDonald, Loretta_Guarino_Reid, John_Slatin, Wendy, Christophe_Strobbe, +53477aaaa, Gregg_Vanderheiden
20:00:35 [Yvette]
zakim, +53477aaaa is Yvette_Hoitink
20:00:35 [Zakim]
+Yvette_Hoitink; got it
20:00:37 [Michael]
Michael has joined #wai-wcag
20:00:41 [Yvette]
zakim, I am Yvette_Hoitink
20:00:41 [Zakim]
ok, Yvette, I now associate you with Yvette_Hoitink
20:00:47 [Zakim]
+[IPcaller]
20:00:48 [Sofia]
Sofia has joined #wai-wcag
20:00:50 [Makoto]
zakim, [IPcaller] is Makoto_Ueki
20:00:50 [Zakim]
+Makoto_Ueki; got it
20:01:03 [Andi]
Andi has joined #wai-wcag
20:01:05 [Gez]
Gez has joined #wai-wcag
20:01:16 [Zakim]
+??P9
20:01:19 [Zakim]
+??P8
20:01:22 [Zakim]
+??P10
20:01:23 [bengt]
zakim, ??P9 is Bengt_Farre
20:01:24 [Zakim]
+Bengt_Farre; got it
20:01:25 [ben]
zakim, ??P9 is Gregg_and_Ben
20:01:25 [Zakim]
I already had ??P9 as Bengt_Farre, ben
20:01:40 [Zakim]
+Michael_Cooper
20:01:42 [bengt]
ha ben i was first ;)
20:01:43 [ben]
zakim, ??P8 may be Ben_and_Gregg
20:01:43 [Zakim]
+Ben_and_Gregg?; got it
20:01:55 [Zakim]
+Alex_Li
20:02:14 [ben]
zakim, who's muted?
20:02:14 [Zakim]
I see Ben_and_Gregg? muted
20:02:17 [Zakim]
+Sofia_Celic
20:02:17 [bengt]
mute code was ?
20:02:30 [Zakim]
+??P14
20:02:32 [ben]
zakim, Ben_and_Gregg? is Ben_and_Gregg
20:02:32 [Zakim]
+Ben_and_Gregg; got it
20:02:39 [Zakim]
+Don_Evans
20:02:40 [ben]
zakim, unmute Ben_and_Gregg
20:02:40 [Zakim]
Ben_and_Gregg should no longer be muted
20:02:43 [Becky]
Becky has joined #wai-wcag
20:02:55 [ben]
zakim, who's on the phone?
20:02:55 [Zakim]
On the phone I see ??P0, David_MacDonald, Loretta_Guarino_Reid, John_Slatin, Wendy, Christophe_Strobbe, Yvette_Hoitink, Gregg_Vanderheiden, Makoto_Ueki, Bengt_Farre (muted),
20:02:59 [Zakim]
... Ben_and_Gregg, ??P10, Michael_Cooper, Alex_Li, Sofia_Celic, ??P14, Don_Evans
20:03:00 [Zakim]
+Becky_Gibson
20:03:17 [Zakim]
+??P17
20:03:26 [Andi]
that should be me
20:03:33 [ben]
zakim, ??P17 is Andi_Snow-Weaver
20:03:33 [Zakim]
+Andi_Snow-Weaver; got it
20:04:07 [ben]
zakim, ??P0 is Gian_Sampson-Wild
20:04:07 [Zakim]
+Gian_Sampson-Wild; got it
20:04:34 [Zakim]
+Diane_Stottlemyer
20:04:53 [ben]
zakim, who is on the phone?
20:04:53 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Gian_Sampson-Wild, David_MacDonald, Loretta_Guarino_Reid, John_Slatin, Wendy, Christophe_Strobbe, Yvette_Hoitink, Gregg_Vanderheiden, Makoto_Ueki, Bengt_Farre
20:04:57 [Zakim]
... (muted), Ben_and_Gregg, ??P10, Michael_Cooper, Alex_Li, Sofia_Celic, ??P14, Don_Evans, Becky_Gibson, Andi_Snow-Weaver, Diane_Stottlemyer
20:05:28 [ben]
zakim, Gregg_Vanderheiden is Katie_Haritos-Shea
20:05:28 [Zakim]
+Katie_Haritos-Shea; got it
20:05:52 [ben]
zakim, ??P10 may be Tim_Boland
20:05:52 [Zakim]
+Tim_Boland?; got it
20:06:05 [ben]
zakim, who is on the phone?
20:06:05 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Gian_Sampson-Wild, David_MacDonald, Loretta_Guarino_Reid, John_Slatin, Wendy, Christophe_Strobbe, Yvette_Hoitink, Katie_Haritos-Shea, Makoto_Ueki, Bengt_Farre
20:06:08 [Zakim]
... (muted), Ben_and_Gregg, Tim_Boland?, Michael_Cooper, Alex_Li, Sofia_Celic, ??P14, Don_Evans, Becky_Gibson, Andi_Snow-Weaver, Diane_Stottlemyer
20:06:22 [ben]
zakim, ??P14 may be Gez_Lemon
20:06:22 [Zakim]
+Gez_Lemon?; got it
20:06:36 [wendy]
scribe?
20:07:00 [ben]
agenda?
20:07:11 [ben]
agenda+ Guideline 4.1
20:07:18 [ben]
agenda+ Guidelines 1.4, 2.3 and 2.4
20:07:26 [ben]
agenda+ Guidelines 1.3 and 2.2
20:07:33 [ben]
agenda+ Guideline 1.2 and 2.1
20:07:41 [ben]
agenda+ Guideline 1.3 and 2.4 issues.
20:07:50 [ben]
agenda+ Guideline 1.3 L3 SC1 (not discussed last week)
20:07:58 [ben]
agenda+ Guideline 3.1
20:07:59 [Gez]
zakim, mute me
20:08:00 [Zakim]
Gez_Lemon? should now be muted
20:08:10 [ben]
agenda+ Guideline 4.2
20:08:17 [Becky]
zakim, I am Becky_Gibson
20:08:17 [Zakim]
ok, Becky, I now associate you with Becky_Gibson
20:08:29 [ben]
scribe: David
20:09:23 [ben]
zakim, take up agendum 1
20:09:23 [Zakim]
agendum 1. "Guideline 4.1" taken up [from ben]
20:09:39 [David]
scribe: David_MacDonald
20:09:43 [Judy]
Judy has joined #wai-wcag
20:10:27 [ben]
scribe: David
20:10:31 [David]
Topic: 4.1
20:11:02 [Zakim]
+Judy
20:12:22 [ben]
survey results: http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/use-spec2/results
20:12:36 [Yvette]
zakim, murw mw
20:12:36 [Zakim]
I don't understand 'murw mw', Yvette
20:12:40 [Yvette]
zakim, mute me
20:12:40 [Zakim]
Yvette_Hoitink should now be muted
20:13:56 [Michael]
q+
20:17:25 [wendy]
http://www.is-thought.co.uk/book/sgml-5.htm#Ambiguous
20:17:33 [wendy]
An SGML content model cannot be ambiguous.
20:17:43 [wendy]
Every element or character found in the document instance must be able to satisfy only one content token without looking ahead in the document instance.
20:18:21 [wendy]
Not all tags need to be present in a document. Provided that the OMITTAG feature has been enabled in the SGML declaration, tags can be omitted when their presence can be implied without ambiguity.
20:18:29 [wendy]
(from http://www.is-thought.co.uk/book/sgml-5.htm#Use)
20:19:35 [ben]
ack Mic
20:20:23 [wendy]
The most commonly used form of minimization is tag omission. This optional SGML feature allows tags to be omitted when their presence can be unambiguously implied by the program from the structure of the document declared in the document type definition.
20:20:31 [wendy]
(from http://www.is-thought.co.uk/book/sgml-9.htm#OMITTAG)
20:20:44 [ben]
zakim, who's muted?
20:20:44 [Zakim]
I see Yvette_Hoitink, Bengt_Farre, Gez_Lemon? muted
20:21:09 [ben]
ack Gez
20:21:18 [Gez]
zakim, mute me
20:21:18 [Zakim]
Gez_Lemon? should now be muted
20:21:34 [ben]
zakim, unmute Gez
20:21:34 [Zakim]
Gez_Lemon? should no longer be muted
20:21:47 [ben]
zakim, Gez_Lemon? is Tim_Boland
20:21:47 [Zakim]
+Tim_Boland; got it
20:22:01 [ben]
zakim, Tim_Boland? is Gez_Lemon
20:22:01 [Zakim]
+Gez_Lemon; got it
20:22:19 [Gez]
zakim, mute me
20:22:19 [Zakim]
Gez_Lemon should now be muted
20:23:22 [Judy]
zakim, mute me
20:23:22 [Zakim]
Judy should now be muted
20:23:27 [wendy]
q+
20:24:47 [bengt]
deterministic see http://www.nist.gov/dads/HTML/deterministc.html
20:25:10 [ben]
ack Lor
20:25:11 [Christophe]
q+ to say "I think the reference about SGML is really about DTDs, not the actual (HTML,...) markup"
20:25:12 [ben]
ack wend
20:25:46 [Gez]
zakim, mute me
20:25:46 [Zakim]
Gez_Lemon was already muted, Gez
20:25:57 [wendy]
having or exhibiting a single clearly defined meaning; admitting of no doubt or misunderstanding; having only one meaning or interpretation and leading to only one conclusion
20:26:06 [wendy]
(from wordnet/dictionary.com)
20:26:07 [Christophe]
q-
20:27:35 [ben]
parsed unambiguously
20:27:35 [ben]
parsing using a set of rules and no human judgement can only result in one outcome
20:28:03 [bengt]
apply a set of rules
20:28:16 [Yvette]
zakim, unmute me
20:28:16 [Zakim]
Yvette_Hoitink should no longer be muted
20:29:15 [Christophe]
q+ to say "In HTML 4 , tables without thead, tfoot and tbody cannot be parsed unambiguously"
20:30:26 [bengt]
parse is In linguistics, to divide language into small components that can be analyzed. For example, parsing this sentence would involve dividing it into words and phrases and identifying the type of each component (e.g., verb, adjective, or noun).
20:30:30 [wendy]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parse
20:30:58 [David]
resolution: editors will find a good definition for parse ...passed unanimously
20:31:23 [wendy]
Parsing transforms input text into a data structure, usually a tree, which is suitable for later processing and which captures the implied hierarchy of the input. Parsing unambiguously means that there is only one data structure that can result.
20:31:26 [wendy]
q+
20:31:59 [ben]
ack John
20:32:18 [ben]
ack Gian
20:33:25 [Christophe]
q- (I double-checked my statement; there's no problem with HTML 4 tables)
20:33:29 [Christophe]
q-
20:35:33 [ben]
ack w
20:36:15 [ben]
zakim, who's making noise?
20:36:25 [Zakim]
ben, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Gian_Sampson-Wild (9%), Katie_Haritos-Shea (5%), Makoto_Ueki (9%), Ben_and_Gregg (68%), Andi_Snow-Weaver (9%), Wendy
20:36:28 [Zakim]
... (10%)
20:36:46 [Makoto]
zakim, mute me
20:36:46 [Zakim]
Makoto_Ueki should now be muted
20:37:01 [ben]
ack tim
20:37:16 [bengt]
q+
20:37:42 [Yvette]
zakim, mute me
20:37:42 [Zakim]
Yvette_Hoitink should now be muted
20:37:43 [bengt]
q-
20:37:51 [ben]
ack Tim
20:39:03 [wendy]
Parsing transforms markup or other code into a data structure, usually a tree, which is suitable for later processing and which captures the implied hierarchy of the input. Parsing unambiguously means that there is only one data structure that can result.
20:39:43 [ben]
proposed: parsed unambiguously
20:39:43 [ben]
Parsing transforms markup or other code into a data structure, usually a tree, which is suitable for later processing and which captures the implied hierarchy of the input. Parsing unambiguously means that there is only one data structure that can result.
20:41:14 [Gez]
q+
20:41:17 [David]
resolution: remove previous resolution for editors to find defn of Parse
20:41:31 [Gez]
zakim, unmute me
20:41:32 [Zakim]
Gez_Lemon should no longer be muted
20:41:42 [David]
resolution: Resolution: Accept Solution 2 for the next draft.
20:41:52 [Gez]
q-
20:41:56 [Gez]
zakim, unmute me
20:41:56 [Zakim]
Gez_Lemon was not muted, Gez
20:42:01 [Gez]
zakim, mute me
20:42:01 [Zakim]
Gez_Lemon should now be muted
20:42:32 [wendy]
RRSAgent, make log world
20:42:33 [David]
resolution: "Parsing transforms markup or other code into a data structure, usually a tree, which is suitable for later processing and which captures the implied hierarchy of the input. Parsing unambiguously means that there is only one data structure that can result."
20:43:03 [wendy]
gez - did you have a question?
20:43:39 [Yvette]
zakim, unmute me
20:43:39 [Zakim]
Yvette_Hoitink should no longer be muted
20:43:50 [Yvette]
q+
20:43:54 [wendy]
zakim, who's making noise?
20:44:00 [Gez]
Thannks, Wendy - I did, but it wasn't important
20:44:05 [Zakim]
wendy, listening for 11 seconds I heard sound from the following: John_Slatin (8%), Katie_Haritos-Shea (4%), Yvette_Hoitink (30%), Ben_and_Gregg (26%), Tim_Boland (16%)
20:45:27 [David]
resolution: accept definition of parsing as follows: "Parsing transforms markup or other code into a data structure, usually a tree, which is suitable for later processing and which captures the implied hierarchy of the input. Parsing unambiguously means that there is only one data structure that can result."
20:45:41 [Christophe]
q+ to say "I volunteered to write a technique for custom DTDs"
20:46:07 [Yvette]
q-
20:46:52 [mcmay]
mcmay has joined #wai-wcag
20:46:57 [Yvette]
zakim, mute me
20:46:57 [Zakim]
Yvette_Hoitink should now be muted
20:48:26 [David]
resolution: adopt wording for 4.1 L1 SC1 "Delivery units can be parsed unambiguously."
20:48:57 [David]
resolution: adopt wording for 4.1 L1 SC1 "Delivery units can be parsed unambiguously." for the next draft.
20:49:04 [ben]
zakim, close this item
20:49:04 [Zakim]
agendum 1 closed
20:49:05 [Zakim]
I see 7 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
20:49:06 [Zakim]
2. Guidelines 1.4, 2.3 and 2.4 [from ben]
20:49:09 [ben]
zakim, take up agendum 2
20:49:09 [Zakim]
agendum 2. "Guidelines 1.4, 2.3 and 2.4" taken up [from ben]
20:49:17 [ben]
survey results: http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/2005-11-10s1/results
20:49:28 [David]
topic: "Guidelines 1.4, 2.3 and 2.4" taken up [from ben]
20:50:09 [Christophe]
q-
20:53:23 [David]
Topic: Luminosity 1.4 contrast foreground and background
20:53:41 [Yvette]
q+ to say "great work"
20:53:47 [Zakim]
-Diane_Stottlemyer
20:53:58 [ben]
ack Gian
20:54:01 [Yvette]
zakim, unmute me
20:54:01 [Zakim]
Yvette_Hoitink should no longer be muted
20:54:04 [Becky]
q+
20:57:28 [Yvette]
q-
20:58:26 [Gez]
q-
20:58:33 [ben]
q- Ben
20:58:55 [ben]
ack Becky
20:59:19 [Gez]
I'm not in the queue - I don't know who put me in it, but I can't get out
21:00:13 [wendy]
q- gez
21:00:17 [Zakim]
-David_MacDonald
21:00:41 [wendy]
q+ someone-who-isn't-gez
21:00:58 [Yvette]
q+ to say "sc is *wider* than gl"
21:01:06 [Michael_Cooper]
Michael_Cooper has joined #wai-wcag
21:01:40 [Zakim]
+David_MacDonald
21:03:19 [Yvette]
zakim, unmute me
21:03:20 [Zakim]
Yvette_Hoitink was not muted, Yvette
21:03:32 [wendy]
ack yv
21:03:32 [Zakim]
Yvette_Hoitink, you wanted to say "sc is *wider* than gl"
21:04:27 [Yvette]
zakim, mute me
21:04:27 [Zakim]
Yvette_Hoitink should now be muted
21:04:30 [wendy]
ack someon
21:04:43 [ben]
zakim, who's muted?
21:04:43 [Zakim]
I see Gian_Sampson-Wild, Yvette_Hoitink, Makoto_Ueki, Bengt_Farre, Gez_Lemon, Judy muted
21:05:32 [wendy]
zakim, who's on the phone?
21:05:32 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Gian_Sampson-Wild (muted), Loretta_Guarino_Reid, John_Slatin, Wendy, Christophe_Strobbe, Yvette_Hoitink (muted), Katie_Haritos-Shea, Makoto_Ueki (muted),
21:05:36 [Zakim]
... Bengt_Farre (muted), Ben_and_Gregg, Gez_Lemon (muted), Michael_Cooper, Alex_Li, Sofia_Celic, Tim_Boland, Don_Evans, Becky_Gibson, Andi_Snow-Weaver, Judy (muted),
21:05:39 [Zakim]
... David_MacDonald
21:07:19 [wendy]
zakim, Gez_Lemon is Katie
21:07:19 [Zakim]
+Katie; got it
21:07:28 [wendy]
zakim, Katie_Haritos-Shea is Gez
21:07:28 [Zakim]
+Gez; got it
21:07:35 [Yvette]
zakim, unmute me
21:07:35 [Zakim]
Yvette_Hoitink should no longer be muted
21:07:38 [wendy]
zakim, Katie is Katie_Haritos-Shea
21:07:38 [Zakim]
+Katie_Haritos-Shea; got it
21:07:44 [wendy]
zakim, Gez is Gez_Lemon
21:07:44 [Zakim]
+Gez_Lemon; got it
21:07:47 [David]
Resolution: delete the sufficient technique of having no background specified 1.4 L2 SC1
21:07:50 [wendy]
zakim, who's on the phone?
21:07:50 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Gian_Sampson-Wild (muted), Loretta_Guarino_Reid, John_Slatin, Wendy, Christophe_Strobbe, Yvette_Hoitink, Gez_Lemon, Makoto_Ueki (muted), Bengt_Farre (muted),
21:07:53 [Zakim]
... Ben_and_Gregg, Katie_Haritos-Shea, Michael_Cooper, Alex_Li, Sofia_Celic, Tim_Boland, Don_Evans, Becky_Gibson, Andi_Snow-Weaver, Judy (muted), David_MacDonald
21:07:55 [Gez]
zakim, mute me
21:07:55 [Zakim]
Gez_Lemon should now be muted
21:08:05 [Christophe]
q+
21:08:51 [wendy]
ack chr
21:09:02 [Sofia]
q+
21:09:54 [ben]
ack Sofia
21:11:05 [Yvette]
zakim, mute me
21:11:06 [Zakim]
Yvette_Hoitink should now be muted
21:13:05 [David]
resolution: have a sufficient technique for 1.4 L2 SC1 and L3 SC1 not specifying background color and not specififying text color AND delete the sufficient technique of having no background specified 1.4 L2 SC1 and L3 SC1
21:14:03 [Zakim]
-Judy
21:15:08 [David]
resolution: delete the word "minimum" from L2 SC1 and L3 SC1 of GL 1.4
21:15:19 [Yvette]
zakim, unmute me
21:15:19 [Zakim]
Yvette_Hoitink should no longer be muted
21:18:14 [Judy]
Judy has left #wai-wcag
21:20:26 [David]
action: Gregg will work with Yvette and Makoto, Christophe to find an easier way say "Luminosity" in 1.4 L2 SC1
21:21:24 [David]
action: Gregg will see if he can add text to the intent of 1.4 L2 SC1 to give background on the definition of luminosity
21:23:55 [Yvette]
zakim, mute me
21:23:55 [Zakim]
Yvette_Hoitink should now be muted
21:24:18 [Andi]
scribe: Andi
21:25:15 [Andi]
resolution: accept GL 1.4 L2 SC1 and L3 SC1 and their guide docs
21:25:18 [Yvette]
zakim, unmute me
21:25:18 [Zakim]
Yvette_Hoitink should no longer be muted
21:25:20 [Yvette]
q+
21:25:42 [ben]
ack John
21:25:45 [ben]
ack Yve
21:27:47 [Yvette]
zakim, mute me
21:27:48 [Zakim]
Yvette_Hoitink should now be muted
21:28:58 [Andi]
topic: GL 2.3 L1 SC1
21:29:22 [Michael]
q+
21:29:47 [Yvette]
zakim, mute me
21:29:47 [Zakim]
Yvette_Hoitink was already muted, Yvette
21:30:58 [Gez]
q+
21:31:03 [Gez]
zakim, unmute me
21:31:03 [Zakim]
Gez_Lemon should no longer be muted
21:31:12 [Gez]
q-
21:31:19 [Gez]
zakim, mute me
21:31:19 [Zakim]
Gez_Lemon should now be muted
21:32:16 [Andi]
resolution: add sufficient technique for GL 2.3 L1 SC1 and L2 SC2 - Providing a means to disable or turn off the provacative information before encountering it
21:32:23 [Yvette]
q+ to ask "is allowing to switch off sufficient for L2?"
21:32:54 [Andi]
action: Gregg - add benefits to GL 2.3 L1 SC1
21:33:02 [Yvette]
ack katie
21:33:05 [Yvette]
ack michael
21:34:01 [Andi]
q+
21:35:51 [Yvette]
zakim, unmute me
21:35:51 [Zakim]
Yvette_Hoitink should no longer be muted
21:39:35 [Andi]
proposed: when content violates .... users are warned in a way that they can avoid it
21:41:13 [Andi]
resolution: change GL 2.3 L1 SC1 to "When content violates either the general flash threshold or the red flash threshold, users are warned in a way that they can avoid it.
21:41:37 [Yvette]
ack tim
21:44:10 [Andi]
action: Tim to propose GL 2.3 SC that addresses provision of alternative equivalent content.
21:44:40 [Yvette]
ack yvette
21:44:40 [Zakim]
Yvette_Hoitink, you wanted to ask "is allowing to switch off sufficient for L2?"
21:44:48 [Andi]
Tim to look at GL 4.2 to see if the issue is covered there
21:44:53 [Andi]
q-
21:46:33 [Yvette]
ack john
21:46:40 [Yvette]
zakim, mute me
21:46:40 [Zakim]
Yvette_Hoitink should now be muted
21:46:53 [Andi]
resolution: Modify last resolution - do not add sufficient technique to GL 2.3 L2 SC1 - Providing a means to disable or turn off the provacative information before encountering it.
21:47:41 [Andi]
s/and L2 SC1/and L2 SC2/
21:47:45 [Christophe]
s/provacative/provocative
21:49:14 [bengt]
im against provocative since its value can imply censoring
21:49:56 [Andi]
resolution: modify "general flash threshold" and "red flash threshold" definitions change "is not permitted when" to "where"
21:50:56 [Andi]
resolution: adopt John's suggestions for edits to intent section.
21:52:53 [Yvette]
zakim, mute me
21:52:53 [Zakim]
Yvette_Hoitink was already muted, Yvette
21:53:50 [Zakim]
-Alex_Li
21:54:35 [gregg]
change sufficent technique to read "Content has been tested and does not violate the general flash threshold or red flash threshold (See resources for Tools)" and move reference to Trace tool to resources.
21:55:08 [Andi]
resolution: Modify GL 2.3 L2 SC1 sufficient technique to remove reference to Trace tool. Replace with "Content has been tested and does not violate general flash threshold or red flash threshold (See reources for tools)" and move reference to Trace tools to resources.
21:56:32 [Andi]
resolution: adopt GL 2.3 L1 SC 1 and L2 SC 1 and their guide docs as modified by resolutions.
21:56:46 [Zakim]
+ +1.415.440.aabb
21:56:56 [Andi]
topic: GL 2.4 L2 SC 1
21:56:57 [Zakim]
-Don_Evans
21:59:59 [Andi]
q+
22:00:20 [ben]
zakim, who's making noise?
22:00:34 [Zakim]
ben, listening for 11 seconds I heard sound from the following: Ben_and_Gregg (86%), Katie_Haritos-Shea (8%), Tim_Boland (4%)
22:01:45 [ben]
ack Andi
22:02:40 [Zakim]
-Tim_Boland
22:05:14 [Andi]
resolution: modify GL 2.4 L2 SC1 to "More than one way is available to locate content within a set of delivery units where content is not the result of. or a step, in a process or task."
22:06:01 [Andi]
s/or a step in,/or a step, in/
22:06:45 [Andi]
resolution: adopt GL 2.4 L2 SC1 and it's guide as amended by resolutions.
22:07:01 [Christophe]
s/result of. or/result of, or/
22:07:42 [Andi]
q+
22:08:11 [David]
s/or a step, in/or a step in,
22:08:50 [Yvette]
zakim, unmute me
22:08:50 [Zakim]
Yvette_Hoitink should no longer be muted
22:09:50 [Andi]
Katie wants to amend their survey results - can live with proposed wording
22:10:33 [Yvette]
q+
22:10:56 [Yvette]
zakim, mute me
22:10:56 [Zakim]
Yvette_Hoitink should now be muted
22:11:06 [Andi]
topic: GL GL 2.4 L2 SC4
22:11:13 [Yvette]
zakim, unmute me
22:11:13 [Zakim]
Yvette_Hoitink should no longer be muted
22:11:57 [Andi]
q+
22:12:09 [gregg]
ack g
22:12:26 [gregg]
ack k
22:12:30 [gregg]
ack a
22:12:41 [gregg]
ack y
22:12:42 [Andi]
q+
22:13:41 [David]
q+
22:14:33 [gregg]
ack a
22:14:38 [Yvette]
zakim, mute me
22:14:38 [Zakim]
Yvette_Hoitink should now be muted
22:14:59 [Andi]
ack g
22:17:18 [ben]
q+ to say, "explicitly associated?"
22:17:48 [Zakim]
-Gian_Sampson-Wild
22:17:58 [Michael]
q+ to say "doesn't 'described' prohibit non-descriptive stuff like click here?"
22:18:01 [ben]
ack david
22:18:45 [Christophe]
q+
22:18:47 [ben]
ack John
22:20:24 [ben]
ack Lor
22:21:42 [ben]
ack ben
22:21:42 [Zakim]
ben, you wanted to say, "explicitly associated?"
22:22:46 [ben]
ack Michael
22:22:46 [Zakim]
Michael, you wanted to say "doesn't 'described' prohibit non-descriptive stuff like click here?"
22:24:00 [ben]
ack Kat
22:24:00 [gregg]
ack k
22:25:25 [Christophe]
ack chr
22:27:22 [Yvette]
q+
22:27:43 [Christophe]
q+ to say " 'PDF version' would be better than just 'PDF'; the former is somewhat descriptive, the latter is not "
22:28:14 [ben]
ack Yv
22:28:45 [Andi]
q+
22:29:16 [Gez]
q+
22:29:33 [ben]
ack Lor
22:29:34 [gregg]
q+
22:31:50 [gregg]
ack c
22:31:50 [Zakim]
Christophe, you wanted to say " 'PDF version' would be better than just 'PDF'; the former is somewhat descriptive, the latter is not "
22:32:02 [gregg]
ack a
22:32:26 [Gez]
zakim, unmute me
22:32:26 [Zakim]
Gez_Lemon should no longer be muted
22:33:48 [David]
q+
22:34:03 [gregg]
ack k
22:34:05 [gregg]
ack g
22:34:14 [gregg]
ack ack g
22:34:16 [gregg]
ack g
22:34:19 [gregg]
ack d
22:34:22 [Gez]
zakim, mute me
22:34:22 [Zakim]
Gez_Lemon should now be muted
22:35:49 [gregg]
Each programmatic reference to another delivery unit or to another location in the same delivery unit is associated with text describing the destination.
22:36:40 [David]
q+
22:37:02 [gregg]
ACK J
22:37:21 [ben]
ack dav
22:38:57 [Andi]
resolution: adopt proposed language for GL 2.4 L2 SC4 with an ed note that describes the question group has with regard to what "associated" means and how tight the association has to be. "Each programmatic referece to another delivery unit or to another location in the same delivery unit is associated with text describing the destination."
22:39:37 [Andi]
resolution: adopt GL 2.4 L2 SC4 and it's guide doc as amended by resolutions.
22:40:02 [Becky]
scribe: Becky
22:40:29 [Yvette]
zakim, unmute me
22:40:29 [Zakim]
Yvette_Hoitink was not muted, Yvette
22:40:39 [Zakim]
-Katie_Haritos-Shea
22:40:52 [Michael]
zakim, ping in 10 minutes
22:40:52 [Zakim]
ok, Michael
22:40:56 [Becky]
group is taking 10 minute break
22:41:11 [Zakim]
-Sofia_Celic
22:41:33 [bengt]
is line open to call in then later ?
22:41:41 [Zakim]
-Makoto_Ueki
22:42:02 [Zakim]
-Christophe_Strobbe
22:42:07 [Yvette]
yes
22:42:07 [Zakim]
-Yvette_Hoitink
22:42:08 [Zakim]
-John_Slatin
22:42:09 [Zakim]
-Gez_Lemon
22:42:11 [Zakim]
-Andi_Snow-Weaver
22:42:23 [Yvette]
/me for another 6 hours (o please don't let us take that long...)
22:42:24 [Zakim]
-Bengt_Farre
22:43:20 [Zakim]
-David_MacDonald
22:45:57 [Zakim]
-Wendy
22:49:29 [ben]
zakim, close this item
22:49:29 [Zakim]
agendum 2 closed
22:49:30 [Zakim]
I see 6 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
22:49:31 [Zakim]
3. Guidelines 1.3 and 2.2 [from ben]
22:49:36 [ben]
zakim, take up agendum 3
22:49:36 [Zakim]
agendum 3. "Guidelines 1.3 and 2.2" taken up [from ben]
22:49:54 [ben]
survey results: http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/2005-11-10s2/results
22:50:11 [Zakim]
+David_MacDonald
22:50:53 [Zakim]
Michael, you asked to be pinged at this time
22:52:26 [Zakim]
+Sofia_Celic
22:52:39 [Zakim]
+Katie_Haritos-Shea
22:52:44 [Zakim]
+Christophe_Strobbe
22:53:11 [Zakim]
+??P6
22:53:15 [Andi]
that's me
22:53:26 [Zakim]
+Yvette_Hoitink
22:53:30 [Yvette]
zakim, mute me
22:53:30 [Zakim]
Yvette_Hoitink should now be muted
22:53:39 [ben]
zakim, ??P6 is Andi
22:53:39 [Zakim]
+Andi; got it
22:53:51 [ben]
zakim, who's on the phone?
22:53:51 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Loretta_Guarino_Reid, Ben_and_Gregg, Michael_Cooper, Becky_Gibson, +1.415.440.aabb, David_MacDonald, Sofia_Celic, Katie_Haritos-Shea, Christophe_Strobbe, Andi,
22:53:54 [Zakim]
... Yvette_Hoitink (muted)
22:54:02 [Becky]
Topic: GL 1.3 L1 SC2 - proposal to delete and to promote GL 1.3 L2 SC2 to Level 1
22:54:22 [Yvette]
zakim, who's making noise?
22:54:33 [Zakim]
Yvette, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Katie_Haritos-Shea (20%), Andi (4%), Ben_and_Gregg (59%), Becky_Gibson (39%)
22:54:42 [Zakim]
+??P9
22:54:51 [bengt]
zakim, ??P9 is Bengt_Farre
22:54:51 [Zakim]
+Bengt_Farre; got it
22:55:20 [Zakim]
+??P10
22:55:52 [Zakim]
+John_Slatin
22:56:31 [Zakim]
+[IPcaller]
22:56:32 [Makoto]
zakim, [IPcaller] is Makoto_Ueki
22:56:32 [Zakim]
+Makoto_Ueki; got it
22:58:18 [ben]
ack Lor
23:07:08 [Yvette]
zakim, unmute me
23:07:08 [Zakim]
Yvette_Hoitink should no longer be muted
23:07:40 [Yvette]
q+
23:08:17 [gregg]
ACK Y
23:11:52 [Becky]
proposed GL 1.3 L1 SC2 text: When information is conveyed by color, the information is also conveyed through another means that does not depend on the user's ability to differentiate colors.
23:14:04 [ben]
zakim, ??P10 is Gian_Sampson-Wild
23:14:04 [Zakim]
+Gian_Sampson-Wild; got it
23:14:39 [Yvette]
zakim, mute me
23:14:39 [Zakim]
Yvette_Hoitink should now be muted
23:17:08 [Becky]
ack ??P10
23:17:42 [Becky]
ack gi
23:18:02 [Becky]
ack John
23:18:37 [Zakim]
-Michael_Cooper
23:18:53 [Zakim]
+Michael_Cooper
23:19:04 [Becky]
proposal for GL 1.3 L1 SC2 text: When information is conveyed by color, the information is also conveyed through another means that does not depend on color.
23:20:01 [Becky]
Resolution: accept new text for GL 1.3 L1 SC2: When information is conveyed by color, the information is also conveyed through another means that does not depend on color.
23:25:56 [ben_]
ben_ has joined #wai-wcag
23:26:22 [ben_]
q+
23:28:40 [gregg]
ACK B
23:29:45 [Michael]
q+ to say the old "asterisk" technique would be sufficient - not required at level 1, but an option the author could follow
23:30:30 [David]
+
23:30:34 [David]
q+
23:32:51 [Michael]
q-
23:35:09 [David]
q-
23:35:25 [Becky]
ack k
23:38:19 [ben]
ben has joined #wai-wcag
23:39:12 [Becky]
ack G
23:41:18 [Yvette]
zakim, unmute me
23:41:18 [Zakim]
Yvette_Hoitink should no longer be muted
23:44:53 [Becky]
ack L
23:44:55 [Becky]
ack J
23:46:14 [Becky]
ack G
23:48:55 [David]
q+
23:48:59 [Becky]
q+
23:49:10 [Zakim]
-Yvette_Hoitink
23:50:19 [Becky]
ack D
23:51:25 [Becky]
ack B
23:58:48 [Becky]
Resolution: Keep GL 1.3 L1 SC2 and L2 SC2 as is (undoing previous resolution to change L1 SC2 text) and add an editoral note to L1 SC2 that says, "The Working group is considering moving L2 SC2 to Level 1 and combining it with L1 SC2 so that information conveyed through color is available visually without color and also available programatically."