14:31:03 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #dawg
14:31:03 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2005/10/25-dawg-irc
14:31:03 <kendall> kendall has joined #dawg
14:31:03 <AndyS> zakim, who is on the phone?
14:31:03 <Zakim> On the phone I see Rachel_Yager, PatH, SteveH, ??P29
14:31:12 <Zakim> +DanC
14:31:13 <Zakim> +Kendall_Clark
14:31:14 <Zakim> +Yoshio
14:31:16 <AndyS> zakim, ??P29 is AndyS
14:31:16 <Zakim> +AndyS; got it
14:33:09 <DanC> agenda + Convene, take roll, review records and agenda
14:33:16 <DanC> agenda + toward Note on using SPARQL with WSDL 1.1
14:33:22 <DanC> agenda + protocol testing update
14:33:30 <DanC> agenda + SPARQL Protocol and WSDL
14:33:39 <DanC> agenda + Security Considerations
14:33:46 <DanC> agenda + issues#rdfSemantics
14:33:54 <DanC> agenda + # issues#valueTesting: handling type "error"s
14:34:03 <DanC> agenda + Note on querying lists
14:34:10 <kendall> i don't believe there's anything new re: agendum 4, FWIW
14:34:10 <DanC> agenda + Toward CR\
14:34:24 <kendall> zakim, who's on the phone?
14:34:24 <Zakim> On the phone I see Rachel_Yager, PatH, SteveH, AndyS, Kendall_Clark, DanC, Yoshio
14:34:35 <DanC> regrets: Jeen Broekstra, Souripriya Das
14:34:39 <kendall> Regrets: Jeen, Souri
14:34:41 <LeeF> Dialing now, sorry I'm late.
14:35:00 <kendall> Also LeeF attending
14:35:07 <DanC> -> http://www.w3.org/2005/10/18-dawg-minutes 18 Oct
14:35:08 <kendall> Minutes from last meeting approved
14:35:16 <EliasT> EliasT has joined #dawg
14:35:25 <Zakim> +Elias_Torres
14:35:34 <Zakim> +[IBMCambridge]
14:35:39 <LeeF> zakim, IBMCambridge is temporarily LeeF
14:35:39 <Zakim> +LeeF; got it
14:35:48 <EliasT> Zakim, Elias_Torres is EliasT
14:35:48 <Zakim> +EliasT; got it
14:35:58 <kendall> Attending: EliasT, LeeF, RachelY, PatH, SteveH, AndyS, KendallC, DanC, YoshioF
14:36:21 <JosD> JosD has joined #dawg
14:36:27 <kendall> Attending: JosD
14:36:51 <DanC> ACTION: EricP to fix test schema to match manifest with negative tests [CONTINUES]
14:36:59 <DanC> ACTION: DanC to follow up re optional test based on op:dateTime triple [CONTINUES]
14:37:39 <kendall> 1 Nov meeting, Janne scribing
14:37:43 <SteveH> SteveH has joined #dawg
14:37:48 <DanC> Zakim, next item
14:37:48 <Zakim> agendum 1. "Convene, take roll, review records and agenda" taken up [from DanC]
14:37:52 <DanC> Zakim, close item 1
14:37:52 <Zakim> agendum 1, Convene, take roll, review records and agenda, closed
14:37:53 <Zakim> I see 8 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
14:37:54 <Zakim> 2. toward Note on using SPARQL with WSDL 1.1 [from DanC]
14:37:55 <DanC> Zakim, next item
14:37:55 <Zakim> +??P34
14:37:57 <Zakim> agendum 2. "toward Note on using SPARQL with WSDL 1.1" taken up [from DanC]
14:38:36 <kendall> SPARQL with WSDL 1.1 publication imminent
14:38:38 <kendall> or not. :>
14:38:46 <kendall> Dan's action continues, since it's not done yet
14:39:11 <kendall> LeeF: Ask WS-Desc to look at SPARQL with WSDL 1.1
14:39:12 <EliasT> yay! DanC recognized LeeF's voice.
14:39:13 <DanC> ACTION: LeeF to ask WSDL WG to review WSDL 1.1 SPARQL protocol stuff, once it is available
14:39:21 <DanC> ACTION DanC: publish WSDL 1.1 sparql protocol note, contingent on thumbs-up from KC, EricP, Lee/Elias [CONTINUES]
14:39:39 <kendall> argh, i forgot how to reg an action :)
14:39:44 <DanC> Zakim, next item
14:39:45 <Zakim> agendum 3. "protocol testing update" taken up [from DanC]
14:40:19 <DanC> gold star to Andy for reproducing the testing results
14:40:22 <ericP> sorry i'm late, all
14:40:37 <kendall> Not ready to approve any tests just yet
14:42:40 <kendall> Whether protocol needs additional warnings/faults/errors will be left to protocol testing developments
14:42:53 <kendall> EliasT: tests may need another endpoint
14:43:06 <kendall> DanC suggests something that I didn't catch ;>
14:43:21 <ericP> zakim, please dial hugo-617
14:43:21 <Zakim> ok, ericP; the call is being made
14:43:23 <Zakim> +Hugo
14:43:49 <ericP> zakim, Hugo is really ericP
14:43:49 <Zakim> +ericP; got it
14:43:59 <kendall> Attending: +EricP
14:45:22 <kendall> FWIW, the protocol spec has some URIs with bad TLDs that need to be fixed.
14:46:12 <AndyS> http:./example.my/
14:46:19 <AndyS> http://example.my/
14:46:29 <DanC> my.example is OK
14:46:53 <EliasT> example.[org|com|net]
14:47:01 <EliasT> and *.example, right?
14:47:04 <ericP> yes
14:47:28 <EliasT> :-)
14:47:55 <DanC> http://www.w3.org/2001/06/manual/#ref-DOMAINS
14:48:04 <AndyS> http://example/ is correct is not GETtable (today)
14:48:07 <DanC> [[
14:48:07 <DanC>    To safely satisfy these needs, four domain names are reserved as
14:48:07 <DanC>    listed and described below.
14:48:07 <DanC>                    .test
14:48:07 <DanC>                 .example
14:48:08 <DanC>                 .invalid
14:48:10 <DanC>               .localhost
14:48:12 <DanC> ]]
14:48:22 <DanC> http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc2606.txt
14:48:56 <ericP> from SPARQL Query: _:a  foaf:mbox       <mailto:alice@work.example> .
14:49:18 <DanC> [[ Avoid "my" and "me" in examples (e.g., use "userResource" and not "myResource"). ]] http://www.w3.org/2001/06/manual/
14:49:48 <kendall> ACTION: KendallC to remove uses of "my" in URIs in protocol spec
14:50:13 <DanC> Zakim, next item
14:50:13 <Zakim> agendum 4. "SPARQL Protocol and WSDL" taken up [from DanC]
14:50:19 <kendall> Test a protocol?! Heresy. :>
14:50:32 <DanC> ACTION KC: review sparql-types for xs:any weirdness, w.r.t. WSDL 2.0 constraints
14:50:44 <DanC> -- continues
14:50:46 <DanC> some progress.
14:50:57 <DanC> ACTION: DanC to notifty DAWG of WSDL response to our WSDL comments [CONTINUES]
14:52:12 <DanC> KC: i gather a WSD WG review is in progress; mostly happy
14:52:18 <DanC> Zakim, next item
14:52:18 <Zakim> agendum 5. "Security Considerations" taken up [from DanC]
14:52:22 <kendall> ACTION: Send review of SPARQL protocol spec from WS-Desc to DAWG list.
14:52:31 <kendall> ACTION KendallC: Send review of SPARQL protocol spec from WS-Desc to DAWG list.
14:52:43 <kendall> can i remove action 8?
14:53:09 <LeeF> zakim, pretty please mute me
14:53:09 <Zakim> I don't understand 'pretty please mute me', LeeF
14:53:14 <LeeF> zakim, please mute me
14:53:14 <Zakim> LeeF should now be muted
14:53:48 <kendall> doh!!
14:56:49 <LeeF> zakim, unmute me
14:56:49 <Zakim> LeeF should no longer be muted
14:58:09 <kendall> Strings often cause changes in my brain state, for example. :>
14:58:35 <kendall> Some worry over the anthropomorphic language in the security considerations stuff
14:59:09 <DanC> rather than "queries may cause...", say "Processing queries may involve..."
15:02:04 <DanC> PROPOSED: that B. Security Considerations + editorial tweaks incl. citing protocol spec are responsive to http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg-comments/2005Jul/0044
15:02:07 <kendall> I don't believe adding additional policy considerations changes the design in a way that matters for Last Call...
15:02:18 <DanC> better be safe than sorry
15:02:27 <kendall> ok
15:02:37 <kendall> I should say that I don't really care one way or t'other :>
15:03:12 <kendall> Eric: will you drop the URI to yr proposed text into IRC?
15:03:26 <DanC> PROPOSED: that B. Security Considerations rev 1.514 + editorial tweaks incl. citing protocol spec are responsive to http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg-comments/2005Jul/0044
15:03:49 <SteveH> SteveH has joined #dawg
15:03:57 <ericP> -> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/rq23/#security SPARQL Query "Security Considerations" section
15:04:05 <DanC> so RESOLVED
15:04:08 <kendall> ah, it's already in rq23. gotcha
15:04:20 <DanC> ACTION EricP: respond to "Security Considerations" comment
15:04:24 <ericP> tx all
15:04:56 <kendall> ACTION KendallC: to add a modified version of http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/rq23/#security to protocol editor's draft, as well as a pointer to the section in rq23 itself.
15:05:22 <DanC> ACTION: Jeen try to reproduces EliasT's protocol testing results [CONTINUES]
15:06:03 <DanC> AFS: I saw a relevant release announcement
15:06:14 <DanC> Zakim, next item
15:06:14 <Zakim> agendum 6. "issues#rdfSemantics" taken up [from DanC]
15:07:34 <kendall> PatH: provisionally, Enrico's new doc seems like a neat way of doing it...
15:07:43 <AndyS> AndyS has joined #dawg
15:08:14 <kendall> http://www.inf.unibz.it/krdb/w3c/sparql/
15:08:21 <kendall> The Semantics of SPARQL
15:08:35 <kendall> by E. Franconi and S. Tessaris
15:10:43 <kendall> Some discussion of the undefined constant in their semantics
15:11:33 <kendall> ACTION PatH: to review The Semantics of SPARQL
15:12:14 <kendall> We all have an expectation (or we all seem to) that this doc will be input to the QL spec.
15:12:49 <kendall> Likely to have, we believe, soundness & completeness results
15:13:09 <kendall> Doesn't cover OPTIONAL now, but there's a promise that it will, as well as a promise of an algebra to come too
15:14:15 <kendall> My org believes it is a good use of our time, FWIW.
15:15:34 <AndyS> KC: Do you know if Bijan is making progress from last week's discussions?
15:16:16 <kendall> I wouldn't be able to say, Andy. We've been heads-down on an RDF database benchmark paper, so I'd be surprised. But I just don't know,.
15:18:23 <kendall> What a swerve that was!
15:18:44 <DanC> ACTION PatH: sketch tests that characterize impact of semantics work
15:19:34 <DanC> ACTION: Bijan to take a pass through the editor's draft, listing what will change with the new semantics understanding, and what will not [CONTINUES]
15:19:57 <DanC> ACTION: Enrico to take a pass through the editor's draft, listing what will change with the new semantics understanding ... [CONTINUES]
15:20:06 <DanC> PatH: yeah, we need more algebra stuff from Enrico
15:23:27 <kendall> sorry, scribe drifted away for a bit
15:23:29 <DanC> DanC: no binding precedents about bnodes, no, path
15:23:50 <DanC> Zakim, next item
15:23:50 <Zakim> agendum 7. "# issues#valueTesting: handling type "error"s" taken up [from DanC]
15:24:22 <ericP> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/rq23/#func-langMatches
15:24:37 <DanC> 11.2.3.11 sop:langMatches
15:26:59 <kendall> scribe could use help during this discussion...
15:27:24 <kendall> (I don't even feel guilty about not *wanting* to follow here... :>)
15:27:26 <ericP> http://www.w3.org/TR/xpath-functions/#func-lang
15:27:38 <DanC> PROPOSED: to add sop:langMatches to SPARQL per 11.2.3.11 sop:langMatches of v 1.514 of rq23, in response to @@the Right comment
15:28:20 <DanC> EricP: no, importing from xquery doesn't work; they have a default node and such
15:29:17 <DanC> Zakim, who's on the phone?
15:29:17 <Zakim> On the phone I see Rachel_Yager, PatH, SteveH, AndyS, Kendall_Clark, DanC, Yoshio, EliasT, LeeF, ??P34, ericP
15:30:02 <DanC> options: (a) no, you just can't query for "everything rfc3066:matching en" without extensions (b)  11.2.3.11 sop:langMatches as drafted
15:31:20 <AndyS> AndyS: (a) -0.5  (b) +1 (this was a user request from a long time ago in RDQL days)
15:31:53 <Zakim> -EliasT
15:33:30 <DanC> b, pref b, pref b, b, b -a, pref a ok with b, b, b, b
15:33:37 <ericP> zakim, ??P34 is JosD
15:33:37 <Zakim> +JosD; got it
15:33:42 <LeeF> Zakim, ??P34 is JosD
15:33:42 <Zakim> I already had ??P34 as JosD, LeeF
15:33:45 <LeeF> man, I'm slow.
15:34:02 <kendall> zakim can be a total asshole
15:34:05 <DanC> so RESOLVED. Hayes abstaining
15:34:22 <patH> Careful, Zakim is listenting to all this.
15:36:00 <kendall> heh. sorry Yoshio. :>
15:36:24 <DanC> PROPOSED: to have both isURI and isIRI , in reply to http://www.w3.org/mid/431c391c.225645515@smtp.bjoern.hoehrmann.de
15:39:12 <kendall> Why not just send an email and we'll see if anyone gives a d**n?
15:40:55 <patH> k*nd*ll uses the * key t** much. 
15:41:05 <kendall> heh
15:41:23 <kendall> trying to keep it clean; it's all about the children, path, the children! :>
15:43:17 <LeeF> zakim, please mute me
15:43:17 <Zakim> LeeF should now be muted
15:43:54 <patH> to h*** with the children
15:44:49 <ericP> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/rq23/#func-isBlank
15:45:02 <ericP> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/rq23/#func-isLiteral
15:47:16 <AndyS> Is there a URI that isn't an IRI?
15:47:20 <DanC> no
15:47:31 <DanC> but there are IRIs that aren't URIs
15:47:33 <AndyS> Thought not
15:47:35 <DanC> though they map
15:47:39 <ericP> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/tests/data/i18n/kanji.ttl
15:48:00 <LeeF> Works for me.
15:48:09 <AndyS> There are RDF URI references that are not IRIs (spaces)
15:48:13 <ericP> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/tests/data/i18n/kanji-01.rq
15:48:15 <ericP> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/tests/data/i18n/kanji-02.rq
15:49:02 <kendall> FWIW, the scribe has resigned, if not in protest, then at least in move designed to preserve sanity.
15:49:12 <ericP> PREFIX 食: <http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/tests/data/i18n/kangi.ttl#>
15:49:12 <ericP> SELECT ?name WHERE {
15:49:12 <ericP>   [ foaf:name ?name ;
15:49:13 <ericP>     食:食べる 食:海老 ] . }
15:49:27 <ericP> so much for last names
15:50:30 <DanC> PROPOSED: to have both isURI and isIRI , in reply to http://www.w3.org/mid/431c391c.225645515@smtp.bjoern.hoehrmann.de
15:51:02 <DanC> note that he asked for something else
15:51:15 <DanC> so RESOLVED.
15:51:47 <ericP> ACTION ericP: respond to http://www.w3.org/mid/431c391c.225645515@smtp.bjoern.hoehrmann.de
15:52:00 <AndyS> ACTION AndyS: Update grammar inline with valuetesting decision
15:52:21 <DanC> PROPOSED: that valueTesting is addressed by recent decisions
15:52:27 <ericP> ACTION ericP: update sop:isIRI to include the "isuri" synonym
15:52:50 <DanC> so RESOLVED.
15:54:58 <DanC> agenda + SPARQL Results Format and Unbound Variables
15:55:17 <DanC> -> http://www.w3.org/mid/42F4CEEB.5090306@umd.edu SPARQL Results Format and Unbound Variables
15:56:38 <DanC> Zakim, take up item 10
15:56:38 <Zakim> agendum 10. "SPARQL Results Format and Unbound Variables" taken up [from DanC]
15:57:04 <DanC> Zakim, close item 7
15:57:04 <Zakim> agendum 7, # issues#valueTesting: handling type "error"s, closed
15:57:05 <Zakim> I see 3 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
15:57:06 <Zakim> 8. Note on querying lists [from DanC]
15:57:22 <kendall> scribe has to leave at top o'hour
15:58:02 <kendall> Now a W3C Note means "we're not taking comments on that"...
15:58:22 <ericP> q+ to sak if it's too late for SPARQL Query to become a note
15:58:56 <LeeF> zakim, unmute me
15:58:56 <Zakim> LeeF should no longer be muted
16:00:27 <DanC> options include: WG WD, Team Submission, Member Submission
16:01:21 <ericP> JosD, wnat me to co-edit?
16:01:30 <ericP> i have a lists impl as well. could be useful
16:02:18 <DanC> ADJOURN.
16:02:19 <Zakim> -Kendall_Clark
16:02:24 <Zakim> -SteveH
16:02:25 <Zakim> -PatH
16:02:26 <Zakim> -DanC
16:02:28 <JosD> whatever is working best EricP
16:02:34 <Zakim> -Yoshio
16:02:43 <Zakim> -LeeF
16:02:46 <Zakim> -JosD
16:03:05 <ericP> yup
16:03:10 <ericP> funny?
16:04:24 <patH> You were dreaming, Yoshio. :-)
16:04:54 <patH> patH has left #dawg
16:04:54 <DanC> " to sak if it's too late for SPARQL Query to become a note" doesn't seem like something one would ask this WG with a straight face, ericp
16:05:14 <Zakim> -AndyS
16:05:16 <Zakim> -Rachel_Yager
16:05:17 <DanC> pubrules trivia: what's the strict-happy way to say <ol type="A"> ?
16:05:18 <Zakim> -ericP
16:05:19 <Zakim> SW_DAWG()10:30AM has ended
16:05:20 <Zakim> Attendees were Rachel_Yager, PatH, SteveH, DanC, Kendall_Clark, Yoshio, AndyS, LeeF, EliasT, ericP, JosD
16:05:41 <Yoshio> oh, then I hope I am not dreaming now, anyway will be dreaming very soon
16:05:43 <ericP> DanC, become a note, roger
16:05:47 <Yoshio> bye all
16:05:51 <DanC> 'night, Yoshio 
16:10:32 <Yoshio> Yoshio has left #dawg
16:55:06 <DaveB> DaveB has joined #dawg
17:39:17 <LeeF> DanC -- Can I just mail an inquiry for a WSDL WG review of the WSDL 1.1 stuff to their discussion list ( www-ws-desc@w3.org )? Do you want to investigate whether Working Draft is not the right status for this first?
17:40:13 <DanC> it's published now. I concluded my investigation in today's telcon when nobody asked me to "pull the plug"
17:40:58 <LeeF> so I'll go ahead and mail the wsdl disc. list then, ok?
17:42:32 <DanC> ok.
17:43:30 <LeeF> ty
18:27:25 <Zakim> Zakim has left #dawg
19:46:37 <LeeF> Hmm. Would this (request to review WSDL 1.1 document) be more appropriate for the WSDL WG-only mailing list rather than the discussion list since it's a WG-to-WG communication? Does it even matter (do I worry about such things too much?)? 
19:48:09 <DanC> oops. hi. still here, Leef?
19:48:18 <LeeF> oh yes
19:48:32 <DanC> yeah, it's really not a comment on their spec
19:48:47 <DanC> you could write to their chair and copy our WG. or copy both WGs
19:49:06 <LeeF> Ah, ok, that sounds like a sensible course of action. 
23:49:37 <DaveB> DaveB has joined #dawg