IRC log of tagmem on 2005-09-06
Timestamps are in UTC.
- 16:56:43 [RRSAgent]
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- 16:56:43 [RRSAgent]
- logging to http://www.w3.org/2005/09/06-tagmem-irc
- 16:56:49 [Norm]
- zakim, this is tag
- 16:56:49 [Zakim]
- Norm, I see TAG_Weekly()12:30PM in the schedule but not yet started. Perhaps you mean "this will be tag".
- 16:56:53 [Norm]
- zakim, this will be tag
- 16:56:53 [Zakim]
- ok, Norm; I see TAG_Weekly()12:30PM scheduled to start 26 minutes ago
- 16:57:49 [noah]
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- 17:00:34 [Zakim]
- TAG_Weekly()12:30PM has now started
- 17:00:41 [Zakim]
- +Norm
- 17:00:45 [ht]
- zakim, please call ht-781
- 17:00:45 [Zakim]
- ok, ht; the call is being made
- 17:00:46 [Zakim]
- +Ht
- 17:00:59 [Vincent]
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- 17:01:01 [DanC]
- DanC has changed the topic to: TAG 6 Jun. scribe: Roy
- 17:01:50 [Norm]
- zakim, who's here?
- 17:01:50 [Zakim]
- On the phone I see Norm, Ht
- 17:01:51 [Zakim]
- On IRC I see Vincent, noah, RRSAgent, Zakim, Roy, ht, Norm, ht_gone_to_work, DanC
- 17:02:01 [Zakim]
- +[IBMCambridge]
- 17:02:11 [noah]
- zakim, [IBMCambridge] is me
- 17:02:13 [Zakim]
- +noah; got it
- 17:02:20 [Ed]
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- 17:02:44 [Zakim]
- +Tayeb/JeffB
- 17:02:46 [Zakim]
- +DanC
- 17:02:46 [Zakim]
- -DanC
- 17:02:56 [Zakim]
- +??P1
- 17:03:07 [Vincent]
- Zakim, Tayeb/JeffB is Vincent
- 17:03:07 [Zakim]
- +Vincent; got it
- 17:03:11 [Zakim]
- +DanC
- 17:03:11 [Norm]
- zakim, ??P1 is Ed
- 17:03:11 [Zakim]
- +Ed; got it
- 17:03:13 [Zakim]
- -DanC
- 17:03:13 [Zakim]
- +Roy
- 17:03:15 [Norm]
- zakim, who's here
- 17:03:15 [Zakim]
- Norm, you need to end that query with '?'
- 17:03:18 [Norm]
- zakim, who's here?
- 17:03:18 [Zakim]
- On the phone I see Norm, Ht, noah, Vincent, Ed, Roy
- 17:03:20 [Zakim]
- On IRC I see Ed, Vincent, noah, RRSAgent, Zakim, Roy, ht, Norm, ht_gone_to_work, DanC
- 17:03:22 [dorchard]
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- 17:03:41 [Zakim]
- +DOrchard
- 17:04:09 [Roy]
- ScribeNick: Roy
- 17:04:24 [Roy]
- Scribe: Roy Fielding
- 17:04:45 [Zakim]
- +DanC
- 17:05:50 [Roy]
- Regrets for Sep 13: Noah
- 17:06:09 [Roy]
- ... Henry, Tim
- 17:07:11 [Roy]
- Topic: http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/2005/09/06-agenda.html
- 17:08:35 [Roy]
- Plan for next week is discussion of GRID. Experts have been invited but we have not heard back yet.
- 17:09:07 [Roy]
- Agenda: http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/2005/09/06-agenda.html
- 17:10:09 [Roy]
- VQ: should we still schedule discussion for next week if we only have one person from GRID?
- 17:10:34 [Roy]
- NW: yes
- 17:10:55 [Roy]
- Ed: yes
- 17:11:33 [Roy]
- NM: propose we take one round of discussion to get oriented and then perhaps take it further during the f2f
- 17:12:10 [Roy]
- NW: will find out about other experts and send info to Vincent
- 17:12:41 [Roy]
- Topic: http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/2005/09/06-agenda.html
- 17:12:46 [Roy]
- no objections
- 17:12:55 [DanC]
- -> http://www.w3.org/2005/08/30-tagmem-minutes 30 Aug minutes
- 17:13:30 [Roy]
- ACTION Minutes of last meeting 30 Aug approved
- 17:14:12 [Roy]
- Topic: Agenda for Edinburgh f2f
- 17:14:55 [Roy]
- VQ: have made a pass through the issues list to prepare for a f2f agenda
- 17:15:12 [Ed_]
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- 17:15:23 [DanC]
- ah... good... http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/issues.html?type=1#httpRange-14 is now marked "agreed"
- 17:15:34 [Roy]
- VQ: rough draft so far (where?)
- 17:16:19 [Roy]
- VQ: I would like to make progress on several of the open issues, try to close them, and make progress where possible
- 17:16:49 [Roy]
- VQ: I would also like to see some setting of priorities for the TAG
- 17:17:01 [Roy]
- DC: okay
- 17:17:11 [Roy]
- NW: that would be good
- 17:17:43 [Roy]
- VQ: Henry, are there constraints on the schedule at F2F?
- 17:18:00 [Roy]
- HT: No, we can go til midnight is desired.
- 17:18:36 [Zakim]
- -Ed
- 17:18:43 [Roy]
- HT: dinner on Tuesday should be at 7:30 pm, time not yet confirmed
- 17:18:47 [DanC]
- (let's see... europe is that funny place where I wake up at 3 or 4am, right? so I'm happy to start earlier than 9am... much earlier... and by 5pm, you'll be lucky to communicate with my conscious self.)
- 17:19:47 [Roy]
- HT: do people have a preference for organizing a group meal on Wed or Thurs?
- 17:20:04 [Roy]
- [all] Wed is better
- 17:21:11 [Roy]
- VQ: anything else about the logistics?
- 17:22:20 [Ed_]
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- 17:22:25 [dorchard]
- this is all online right Henry?
- 17:22:34 [Roy]
- HT: location is three-story row house with lots of doors. I will stand out on the sidewalk from 8:30 to 9 or so to let people in. If you are late, enter door 2, go upstairs one level, ...
- 17:23:22 [DanC]
- it seems to be covered at http://www.w3.org/XML/Group/2005/09/edinburgh-meetings-info.html#location
- 17:23:37 [ht]
- ... ring bell marked "HCRC", secretary will let you in and take you to the meeting
- 17:23:40 [Roy]
- Topic: Proposed errata for webarch
- 17:23:51 [ht]
- or call my cell phone: +44 7866 471 388
- 17:24:04 [Roy]
- http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/webarch/proposed-errata.html#entries
- 17:24:19 [Ed__]
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- 17:25:12 [Roy]
- NW: first entry is from Chris, suggests that we add an editorial correction and that looks fine to me
- 17:25:26 [Roy]
- NW: anyone disagree (silence)
- 17:25:51 [DanC]
- "Interpretation of prose in 3.3"
- 17:25:58 [DanC]
- ^that's a pretty good name, for these minutes
- 17:26:14 [Roy]
- RESOLVED that TAG agrees to CL errata 1, Interpretation of prose in 3.3
- 17:26:28 [Roy]
- RESOLVED: TAG agrees to CL errata 1, Interpretation of prose in 3.3
- 17:27:00 [Roy]
- Second errata is from Roy to update references to URI and IRI
- 17:27:27 [Roy]
- RESOLVED: TAG agrees to RF errata for URI and IRI references
- 17:27:47 [Roy]
- ACTION: NW to include items 1 and 2 in webarch errata
- 17:28:45 [Roy]
- Topic: Interpretation of prose in 3.3
- 17:28:58 [Roy]
- Topic: URNsAndRegistries-50
- 17:29:33 [Roy]
- HT: document is not ready yet and unlikely to be able to spend more time on it before f2f
- 17:29:49 [Roy]
- VQ: should we spend time on it during f2f?
- 17:30:04 [Roy]
- HT: probably not
- 17:30:27 [Roy]
- DC: this topic doesn't seem to be urgent at this point
- 17:31:02 [Roy]
- http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/doc/URNsAndRegistries-50.xml
- 17:31:19 [Norm]
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- 17:31:41 [ht]
- Noah is talking about namespaceDocument-8
- 17:32:35 [Roy]
- NM: there is concern about use of namespace names and http, may be worth f2f time
- 17:32:56 [Roy]
- VQ: that is on the f2f agenda under namespaceDocument-8
- 17:34:25 [Roy]
- DC: IETF stated practice currently is to use URNs for namespace names, for example in geopriv (geo privacy) specs.
- 17:35:31 [Roy]
- DC: IETF using XML in various ways and recommending use of URNs, so there is some need to recommend dereferenceable identifiers instead
- 17:35:54 [dorchard]
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- 17:36:31 [Roy]
- Topic: standardizedFieldValues-51
- 17:36:53 [Roy]
- http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/issues.html#standardizedFieldValues-51
- 17:37:24 [Roy]
- VQ: we have not done work on this since it was announced. does it make sense to discuss it at f2f?
- 17:39:18 [Roy]
- DC: people working on protocols/formats tend to start with short names and then later encounter name collision
- 17:39:50 [Roy]
- Roy: I suggest that DC take an action to write something up ;-)
- 17:40:02 [Roy]
- DC: I could do that
- 17:40:19 [Roy]
- NM: that would be valuable to me to get a handle on the issue
- 17:40:42 [DanC]
- ACTION DanC: write an update on issue 51 and microformats
- 17:41:56 [Roy]
- Roy: I agree with Dan's summary of the issue
- 17:42:33 [DanC]
- "iptc:10112244"
- 17:42:39 [Norm]
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- 17:42:47 [DanC]
- -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/w3c-html-wg/2005JulSep/0033 [ACTION] Send link to proposal for "Compact URI Syntax"
- 17:45:06 [Roy]
- Topic: Reviewing a few pending actions
- 17:45:29 [DanC]
- (I just sent mail about namespaceDocument-8, if we want to add that today's agenda)
- 17:45:36 [Roy]
- VQ: http://www.w3.org/2005/02/22-tagmem-minutes#action04
- 17:45:48 [Roy]
- VQ: any progress?
- 17:46:04 [Roy]
- NW: no progress to report, we need to figure out who has the ball
- 17:46:13 [DanC]
- q+ to ask who has the ball on c14n
- 17:46:28 [Vincent]
- ack danc
- 17:46:28 [Zakim]
- DanC, you wanted to ask who has the ball on c14n
- 17:47:11 [DanC]
- HT: XML Core
- 17:47:12 [Roy]
- NW: I will try to write something up for f2f
- 17:47:50 [Roy]
- ACTION: Norm to provide something written for namespaceState for f2f
- 17:48:09 [Norm]
- http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/w3c-xml-schema-wg/2005Mar/att-0006/xml-schema-f2f-minutes-2005-03-03.html#p219
- 17:48:09 [noah]
- David Orchard to contextualize his scenarios, such as more on what is happening with SOAP and WSDL. [recorded in Minutes of the W3C XML Schema Working Group 4th (37th) F2F meeting]
- 17:48:33 [Roy]
- that document is not public
- 17:49:22 [Roy]
- [TP5-8: David Orchard to contextualize his scenarios, such as more on what is happening with SOAP and WSDL.]
- 17:50:36 [Roy]
- DO: I have made significant progress on that action, should be resolved within a week or so
- 17:50:54 [Roy]
- VQ: let us know when we should review something in the TAG
- 17:51:09 [Roy]
- VQ: any more items to discuss?
- 17:51:16 [Roy]
- DC: I sent email ...
- 17:51:24 [DanC]
- -> http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/2005/06/23-rddl/ ns8 stuff
- 17:52:42 [Norm]
- q+
- 17:52:57 [Roy]
- DC: last week we talked about ns8... afterwords, I remembered that if you take the whole URI and dereference (like a machine), what comes back does not have an id attribute that can be used to ground anchors
- 17:53:10 [Roy]
- DC: in schema
- 17:54:38 [Roy]
- DC: staightforward solution is to place anchor ids in the namespace document such that they are identifiable in the dereferenced resource
- 17:54:56 [Roy]
- s/staightforward/straightforward/
- 17:57:32 [Roy]
- NM: has assumed that people would want to use RDDL as a form of indirection. Perhaps if RDDL had its own media type then it could define its own mechanism for indirect definition of anchors
- 17:58:00 [Norm]
- ack
- 17:58:07 [Norm]
- zakim, ack
- 17:58:07 [Zakim]
- I don't understand 'ack', Norm
- 17:58:11 [Norm]
- ack norm
- 18:00:23 [Roy]
- HT: with a namespace described by multiple schemas, one must acknowledge that there will be different names defined by different schemas, and therefore the namespace document needs to act as a union of names in a complex namespace [scribe interprtation]
- 18:00:56 [Roy]
- [change that to schema documents, not schemas]
- 18:02:28 [DanC]
- ACTION HT: track progress of #int in the XML Schema namespace document in the XML Schema WG
- 18:03:37 [Roy]
- HT: in settling httpRange-14, we talked a great deal about regular URIs but not as much about URIs with fragment
- 18:05:04 [Roy]
- NW: when we introduced "information resource", our definition distinguished between obvious things but left unclear whether a namespace falls under the category of "information resource" or not
- 18:05:12 [Roy]
- s/NW/NM/
- 18:06:06 [Roy]
- DC: if it returns 200, then you have answered the question
- 18:06:55 [Roy]
- DC: whether a namespace resource is an information resource or not is up to the namespace creator.
- 18:09:12 [Zakim]
- -DOrchard
- 18:09:13 [Zakim]
- -Norm
- 18:09:14 [Zakim]
- -noah
- 18:09:17 [Zakim]
- -DanC
- 18:09:19 [Zakim]
- -Vincent
- 18:10:36 [ht]
- The relevant Bugzilla entry for the Schema WG is 1974, so URL is http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=1974
- 18:10:41 [Roy]
- NM: so, summary would be that it is okay for a namespace name to be an information resource provided that the URI is used consistently
- 18:12:01 [Zakim]
- -Roy
- 18:12:25 [Zakim]
- -Ht
- 18:12:26 [Zakim]
- TAG_Weekly()12:30PM has ended
- 18:12:27 [Zakim]
- Attendees were Norm, Ht, noah, DanC, Vincent, Ed, Roy, DOrchard
- 18:13:11 [Roy]
- rrsagent, pointer?
- 18:13:11 [RRSAgent]
- See http://www.w3.org/2005/09/06-tagmem-irc#T18-13-11
- 18:13:30 [Roy]
- RRSAgent, make logs world-access
- 18:13:46 [Roy]
- ADJOURNED
- 18:20:32 [ht]
- DanC, you there?
- 18:20:46 [DanC]
- who, me? no. surely not. ;-)
- 18:21:02 [ht]
- I'm struggling here, if there's a quick answer let me have it. . .
- 18:21:22 [ht]
- Trying to convert old RDFS http://www.w3.org/TR/xml-infoset-rdfs to OWL
- 18:21:32 [ht]
- No joy finding tools to do this
- 18:21:53 [DanC]
- convert in what sense? in some sense, it already is OWL. meanwhile...
- 18:21:55 [ht]
- After much hacking finally got Portege to import the RDFS, but exporting it as OWL is very lossy. . .
- 18:22:41 [DanC]
- my work on infoset-in-OWL is http://www.w3.org/2000/10/swap/infoset/ . it predates OWL, though; it uses what was called DAML+OIL at the time
- 18:22:46 [ht]
- Convert as in produce owl:Class where it used to have rdfs:class, and so on
- 18:23:37 [DanC]
- I think there isn't a quick answer.
- 18:23:41 [ht]
- OK, thanks
- 18:23:58 [DanC]
- it's reasonably straightforward to do with cwm and N3 rules.
- 18:24:13 [DanC]
- or XSLT, for that matter
- 18:25:01 [DanC]
- I never did write up 2000/10/swap/infoset , but I'm pretty happ with this UML-ish diagram: http://www.w3.org/2000/10/swap/infoset/infoset-diagram.png
- 18:26:01 [ht]
- I'll have a look -- I guess I think it would be good to update http://www.w3.org/TR/xml-infoset-rdfs at some point . . .
- 18:26:28 [DanC]
- hey, that would be cool.
- 18:27:29 [DanC]
- the main file in swap/infoset is http://www.w3.org/2000/10/swap/infoset/infoset-daml.n3 , which is a hand-transcription of the infoset spec into DAML (which is pretty close to OWL).
- 18:28:39 [DanC]
- infoset-daml.n3 is the sort of thing that one should be able to model with protege (or swoop) straightforwardly, I think.
- 18:29:08 [ht]
- OK, thanks, I'll have a look. . .
- 18:29:14 [ht]
- Not today :-(
- 20:10:00 [Zakim]
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