16:04:08 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #er
16:04:08 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2005/09/06-er-irc
16:04:14 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #er
16:04:20 <shadi> zakim, this will be er
16:04:21 <Zakim> ok, shadi, I see WAI_ERTWG()12:00PM already started
16:04:52 <Zakim> +Shadi
16:04:59 <shadi> zakim, who is on the phone
16:04:59 <Zakim> I don't understand 'who is on the phone', shadi
16:05:01 <shadi> zakim, who is on the phone?
16:05:01 <Zakim> On the phone I see Johannes, ??P3, Shadi
16:06:03 <Zakim> +Jose_Manuel_Alonso/CarlosI
16:06:12 <shadi> zakim, ??p3 is really Chris
16:06:12 <Zakim> +Chris; got it
16:07:17 <shadi> agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-wai-ert/2005Sep/0001.html
16:08:21 <carlos> carlos has joined #er
16:08:41 <shadi> agenda+ Approve EARL 1.0 Schema for publishing as WD
16:08:54 <shadi> agenda+ EARL Location
16:09:10 <shadi> agenda+ EARL Evidence
16:09:14 <ChrisR> SA: postpone discussion of EARL schema acceptance until later in call
16:09:27 <shadi> zakim, take up agendum 1
16:09:27 <Zakim> agendum 1. "Approve EARL 1.0 Schema for publishing as WD" taken up [from shadi]
16:10:44 <niq> niq has joined #er
16:11:22 <chaals> chaals has joined #er
16:12:10 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
16:13:15 <shadi> zakim, ipcaller is really Nick
16:13:15 <Zakim> +Nick; got it
16:14:20 <Zakim> +??P11
16:17:59 <niq> RESOLUTION: Revised EARL schema accepted subject to 24 hours further scrutiny time
16:18:15 <shadi> zakim, close agendum 1
16:18:15 <Zakim> agendum 1, Approve EARL 1.0 Schema for publishing as WD, closed
16:18:16 <Zakim> I see 2 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
16:18:17 <Zakim> 2. EARL Location [from shadi]
16:18:19 <shadi> zakim, take up agendum 2
16:18:20 <Zakim> agendum 2. "EARL Location" taken up [from shadi]
16:19:39 <shadi> zakim, who is making noise?
16:19:50 <niq> saz: Location property needs to be a bag?
16:19:51 <Zakim> shadi, listening for 11 seconds I heard sound from the following: chaals (63%)
16:23:07 <niq> cmn: likes a bag
16:23:43 <shadi> zakim, mute chaals
16:23:43 <Zakim> chaals should now be muted
16:23:57 <niq> nrk: we need to define the bag: several instances of an error, or several descriptions of an instance?
16:24:07 <chaals> s/bag/bag but there seems to be little love for it in general, so maybe we should go with the same approach as we did for Assertor and make explicit classes and properties/
16:24:27 <JohannesK> JohannesK has joined #er
16:25:01 <niq> saz: clarifies, assertion may have bag of locations, but location may have more than one part
16:25:12 <chaals> [example of a compound location - validity problem where a n element should have been closed, and you point to the starting element in one place, and where it should be closed somewhere else]
16:26:43 <niq> nrk: compond locations have more structure than a bag - should leave structure to implementors
16:30:08 <niq> saz/nrk: think about primary and subsidiary [parts of] location?
16:30:44 <niq> cmn: just several parts
16:31:07 <niq> cmn: don't necessarily want primary/subsidiary
16:38:59 <niq> saz: just use one location property, defer refinement discussion
16:39:56 <Zakim> -Nick
16:40:27 <Zakim> +??P4
16:40:44 <shadi> zakim, ??p4 is really Nick
16:40:44 <Zakim> +Nick; got it
16:40:47 <niq> Zakim: p4 is me
16:41:22 <shadi> scribe: Nick
16:41:27 <shadi> scribenick: niq
16:41:34 <shadi> chair: Shadi
16:41:46 <niq> saz: Location variants: line/col, offset byte/char, xpointer
16:41:50 <shadi> regrets: none
16:42:00 <shadi> meeting: ERT WG
16:42:01 <niq> cmn: Property should be open
16:43:25 <chaals> [for CSS selectors, in a tag soup document you can use something like img[src=fred.jpg] and it has well-defined meaning, which isn't the case for Xpath/Xpointer]
16:45:38 <niq> saz: we can agree on a list of predefined location types
16:46:22 <niq> cmn: need to clarify the fine detail: count from 0 or 1; accept all forms of lineend, ??
16:47:49 <Zakim> chaals, you wanted to note that there are some layout-type problems, awhere the description is going to be in terms of a direction on the screen.
16:50:11 <shadi> list of candidates are: line/col, offset, CSS selector, XPath, XPointer, text description, fuzzy pointers
16:50:14 <niq> cmn: character offsets may have normalisation issues
16:51:38 <chaals> [line/col can be a range, as well as a blank]
16:52:05 <shadi> zakim, close agendum 2
16:52:05 <Zakim> agendum 2, EARL Location, closed
16:52:06 <Zakim> I see 1 item remaining on the agenda:
16:52:07 <Zakim> 3. EARL Evidence [from shadi]
16:52:12 <shadi> zakim, take up agendum 3
16:52:12 <Zakim> agendum 3. "EARL Evidence" taken up [from shadi]
16:52:24 <chaals> [location in a visual presentation, and time information in a dynamic medium, are two issues. Both of these can be represented using XML technologies and making Xpointers, but this is not always the easierst approach]
16:54:54 <Zakim> -chaals
16:55:25 <chaals> Oh. dropped connection. system-wide :-(
16:55:44 <chaals> We ahve a rpoposal that I put during the face to face, which is still the proposal I would put next week.
16:56:03 <niq> cmn via saz: three ways of testing - human, machine, derivation
16:57:08 <chaals> If you make a claim based on other claims (e.g. I can see some collection of claims that amounts to claims for each checkpoint of WCAG, and you have a rule that says WCAG triple-A conformance is just conformance to each checkpoint of WCAG, then you can say mode=heuristic that the subject meets WCAG ltriple-A without doing any actual testing.
16:57:21 <chaals> It would be useful to be able to say what you base such a claim on.
16:57:44 <niq> nrk: this sounds like the auto/manual/heuristic property of Assertor
16:57:53 <chaals> For example, there may be conflicting claims about some checkpoints, or you may only want to trust claims based on checkpoints from some particular assertors.
16:58:36 <niq> saz: maybe could be property of testcase
16:58:38 <chaals> so the idea is to be able to say that in making some assertion, which is done as mode=heuristic, you used some given collection of assertions, and of rules.
16:58:52 <niq> saz: discussion needs chaals on voice
16:58:58 <niq> adjourned
16:59:15 <chaals> cannot be a property of testcase, because you cannot hang the particular assertions off the testcase.
16:59:23 <niq> saz: next telecon sept 20th
16:59:27 <chaals> could be a property of Assertion, or of result though.
16:59:40 <chaals> Chaals sends regrets for 20th.
16:59:48 <Zakim> -Chris
16:59:49 <ChrisR> ChrisR has left #er
16:59:50 <Zakim> -Nick
16:59:51 <Zakim> -Jose_Manuel_Alonso/CarlosI
16:59:51 <Zakim> -Shadi
16:59:53 <Zakim> -Johannes
16:59:55 <Zakim> WAI_ERTWG()12:00PM has ended
16:59:57 <Zakim> Attendees were Johannes, Shadi, Jose_Manuel_Alonso/CarlosI, Chris, Nick, chaals
17:00:10 <shadi> zakim, bye
17:00:10 <Zakim> Zakim has left #er
17:00:17 <shadi> rssagent, make logs world
17:00:26 <shadi> rrsagent, make logs world
17:00:43 <chaals> chaals has left #er
17:00:44 <shadi> rrsagent, make minutes world
17:00:44 <RRSAgent> I'm logging. I don't understand 'make minutes world', shadi.  Try /msg RRSAgent help
17:00:48 <shadi> rrsagent, make minutes
17:00:48 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2005/09/06-er-minutes.html shadi
17:01:11 <shadi> rrsagent, bye
17:01:11 <RRSAgent> I see no action items