IRC log of dawg on 2005-08-30

Timestamps are in UTC.

14:31:12 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #dawg
14:31:12 [RRSAgent]
logging to
14:31:20 [Zakim]
14:31:25 [Zakim]
14:31:28 [JanneS]
JanneS has joined #dawg
14:31:39 [Zakim]
14:31:41 [DanC]
Regrets: SteveH, JosD, JeenB, DaveB
14:31:41 [EliasT]
Zakim, IBMCambridge is EliasT
14:31:41 [Zakim]
+EliasT; got it
14:31:54 [DanC]
Zakim, take up item 1
14:31:54 [Zakim]
agendum 1. "Convene, take roll, review records and agenda" taken up [from DanC]
14:31:57 [Zakim]
14:31:59 [DanC]
Zakim, who's on the phone?
14:31:59 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Yoshio (muted), DanC, EliasT, ??P16
14:32:13 [HiroyukiS]
Zakim, ??P16 is HiroyukiS
14:32:13 [Zakim]
+HiroyukiS; got it
14:32:18 [Zakim]
14:32:19 [LeeF]
Zakim, IBMCambridge is LeeF
14:32:19 [Zakim]
+LeeF; got it
14:32:25 [Zakim]
14:32:38 [DanC]
Zakim, ??P18 is JanneS
14:32:38 [Zakim]
+JanneS; got it
14:33:11 [Zakim]
14:33:17 [DanC]
14:33:36 [DanC]
scribe: EliasT
14:33:42 [Zakim]
14:33:45 [AndyS]
zakim, ?P21 is AndyS
14:33:45 [Zakim]
sorry, AndyS, I do not recognize a party named '?P21'
14:33:51 [DanC]
DanC has changed the topic to: RDF Data Access telcon 30Aug 1430Z. scribe: EliasT
14:33:51 [AndyS]
zakim, ??P21 is AndyS
14:33:51 [Zakim]
+AndyS; got it
14:34:22 [DanC]
-> 16 Aug 2005
14:35:29 [Zakim]
14:35:42 [ericP]
zakim, MIT528 is ericP
14:35:42 [Zakim]
+ericP; got it
14:35:49 [DanC]
RESOLVED: to accept minutes of 16 Aug
14:36:13 [DanC]
Zakim, who's on the phone?
14:36:13 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Yoshio, DanC, EliasT, HiroyukiS, LeeF, JanneS, Kendall_Clark, AndyS, ericP
14:36:38 [DanC]
Regrets: SteveH, JosD, JeenB, DaveB
14:36:58 [AndyS]
(thanks Elias)
14:37:05 [EliasT]
14:37:14 [kendall]
I'm only available till about 11:45 my time (68 minutes from now)
14:37:30 [DanC]
roger, kendall
14:37:41 [EliasT]
Next meeting scheduled for Sept 6, 2005
14:37:45 [EliasT]
Kendall will be the scribe.
14:38:11 [DanC]
Zakim, next item
14:38:11 [Zakim]
agendum 2. "comment: Query forms should be resources, not operations" taken up [from DanC]
14:40:42 [EliasT]
done: Kendall.
14:40:48 [DanC]
Zakim, next item
14:40:48 [Zakim]
agendum 3. "comment: SPARQL Protocol: inconsistent parameter names" taken up [from DanC]
14:41:57 [EliasT]
KendallC, this is something we need to fix. It's a mistake on the protocol.
14:42:11 [EliasT]
KendallC, AndyS proposes it's query.
14:42:14 [kendall]
Proposed: to change "sparql-query" to "query"
14:42:30 [DanC]
editor is so advised.
14:42:50 [DanC]
(or... no advice to the contrary)
14:45:09 [EliasT]
KendallC: WSDL lets you redefine the parameter names using a new binding. If we don't allow that, we should expect havoc. We should say somewhere in the spec, you should these bindings if you want to implement a SPARQL service. Although, we have not talked about whether HTTP is the only concrete interface or whether SOAP is also required.
14:46:17 [EliasT]
DanC: I'll be happy with a note that says you can change the parameters in your own binding, but it will reduce interoperability.
14:47:26 [EliasT]
KendallC, link to email?
14:47:37 [DanC]
Subject: Re: agenda: RDF Data Access 30Aug
14:47:37 [DanC]
Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2005 12:57:31 -0400 (11:57 CDT)
14:47:46 [DanC]
14:47:48 [DanC]
To be a compliant SPARQL Protocol service, a service MUST support the
14:47:48 [DanC]
SparqlQuery interface, and it MUST support either the HTTP bindings or the
14:47:48 [DanC]
SOAP bindings or both the HTTP and SOAP bindings as described in
14:47:48 [DanC]
<sparql-protocol-query.wsdl>. A SPARQL Protocol service MAY support other
14:47:48 [DanC]
interfaces as well.
14:47:49 [DanC]
14:48:21 [EliasT]
14:48:22 [DanC]
Zakim, who's on the phone?
14:48:22 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Yoshio, DanC, EliasT, HiroyukiS, LeeF, JanneS, Kendall_Clark, AndyS, ericP
14:52:18 [kendall]
the term "SPARQL Protocol" already exists in the document...FWIW
14:55:30 [DanC]
(now I forgot what question I was going to ask... oh yeah... "service"...)
15:01:54 [DanC]
PROPOSED: that SPARQL services that export HTTP bindings must export the HTTP binding in this SPARQL protocol spec; likewise for SOAP
15:02:22 [DanC]
so RESOLVED. Action KC
15:02:39 [DanC]
Zakim, next item
15:02:47 [Zakim]
agendum 4. "toward protocol last call" taken up [from DanC]
15:02:55 [kendall]
i hate to burn so much time on minutiae, but thx all anyway...
15:04:24 [EliasT]
KendallC, the output serialization is too strict in WSDL 2.0. We might need to send an email to their list.
15:05:02 [EliasT]
KendallC: We would like WSDL 2.0 to allow us multiple output serialization formats for one binding.
15:06:14 [EliasT]
KendallC: We either return text or we split our operations to support multiple mime formats.
15:08:37 [EliasT]
ACTION: EliasT to draft test for WSDL 2.0 mime type restriciton in output serializatin.
15:09:01 [DanC]
options I see (a) ask WSDL WG to fix this limitation on returned mime type, wait for the fix (b) change our design to meet the constraint, (c) reconsider the requirement on WSDL
15:09:39 [DanC]
a 4ish b 0 c 0
15:10:25 [DanC]
(Andy seems to be exploring b...)
15:11:44 [DanC]
PROPOSED: to weaken return type to application/xml , and note that this is due to a limitation to WSDL that we hope gets relaxed
15:11:48 [DanC]
15:13:11 [EliasT]
AndyS: you can't have a web service that's officially a web service that returns non-XML data.
15:14:00 [DanC]
PROPOSED: to leave out the whttp:outputSerialization param, note the conflict with the current WSDL spec, and take the risk that we'll have to come back if they say no
15:18:05 [LeeF]
15:18:08 [EliasT]
ACTION: KendallC to add editorial note to protocol spec showing that our WSDL is not kosher and it depends on their final decision.
15:19:18 [DanC]
?who: the spec currently requires RDF/XML in 2.a.3
15:19:31 [LeeF]
15:19:48 [kendall]
"equivalent serialization" language was there but removed because it's a bit loose
15:20:52 [DanC]
say "... an RDF graph[RDF concepts] serialized for example in RDF/XML"
15:21:19 [LeeF]
Kendall, do you happen to have a pointer to where the WSDL 2.0 draft(s) discuss outputSerialization?
15:22:40 [kendall]
Lee: it's in their Part Two spec, the HTTP adjuncts stuff... I think section 6.3ish
15:22:50 [kendall]
sad, but true, dan...
15:25:16 [AndyS]
Maybe going back to "equivalent serialization" is the best of the choices.
15:26:28 [LeeF]
If I'm reading correctly, the WSDL 2.0 folks haven't yet formally defined what can (and can't) be a "IANA media type token" for the outputSerialization parameter - I think we should make our value for this attribute: */* :)
15:26:28 [DanC]
PROPOSED: to relax the query-result type to allow "equivalent serialization" [salt to taste] and leave out the whttp:outputSerialization param, note the conflict with the current WSDL spec, and take the risk that we'll have to come back if they say no
15:27:00 [kendall]
LeeF: :>
15:27:50 [AndyS]
Prose would be fine
15:28:39 [DanC]
15:29:02 [EliasT]
ACTION: KendallC, to relax the query-result type to allow "equivalent serialization" [salt to taste] and leave out the whttp:outputSerialization param, note the conflict with the current WSDL spec, and take the risk that we'll have to come back if they say no
15:29:16 [kendall]
15:31:22 [EliasT]
KendallC, regarding working with WSDL WG on moving style. This is about allowing inputSerialization to allow www-form-urlencoded for POST binding. However, WSDL spec says you can't use URI style if using form url-encoded.
15:31:27 [DanC]
request for ACTION ?who: assemble materials for a test for POST with application/x-www-urlencoded
15:32:05 [DanC]
already there in the spec. k. Very long SELECT query using POST binding
15:34:04 [DanC]
KC's ACTION on style continues.
15:34:29 [kendall]
Elias: k. very long thingie has an error, actually... the http request line should be: POST /sparql/ HTTP/1.1... FWIW
15:34:37 [DanC]
EricP's review
15:36:32 [EliasT]
kendall, got it.
15:37:20 [kendall]
I was imagining I'm better at all of this, but it *hurts*...
15:38:04 [DanC]
KC intends to make utf-8 explicit in the coures of doing eric's comments
15:40:45 [kendall]
but of course DESCRIBE is under-spec'd, intentionally
15:42:17 [DanC]
ah... ericp notes the "Accept: application/sparql-results+xml" in d. ASK with simple RDF dataset and notes this suggests that the client is peeking into the query.
15:43:17 [Hiroyuki0]
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15:43:27 [DanC]
ACTION KC: make conneg explicit in c. CONSTRUCT with simple RDF dataset and take accept: out elsewhere
15:45:49 [JanneS]
I have to go for tonight.. hoping to get LC version out next week.
15:46:04 [Zakim]
15:46:10 [DanC]
Zakim, next agendum
15:46:10 [Zakim]
agendum 5. "Protocol testing" taken up [from DanC]
15:46:45 [DanC]
done... ish... DanC to extract and machine-check examples
15:46:58 [EliasT]
15:48:18 [DanC]
[right?] ACTION EliasT: establish consistency between protocol examples and tests
15:51:08 [DanC]
Zakim, next item
15:51:08 [Zakim]
agendum 6. "a WSDL 1.1 description of the SPARQL protocol" taken up [from DanC]
15:51:16 [EliasT]
15:51:41 [DanC]
ACTION: LeeF to draft WSDL 1.1 for SPARQL thingy with AndyS and Elias ETA 9 sep
15:51:51 [DanC]
ACTION: DanC to ask WSDL WG to review WSDL 1.1 and WSDL 2 SPARQL protocol stuff, once both are available
15:51:53 [DanC]
Zakim, next item
15:51:54 [Zakim]
agendum 6 was just opened, DanC
15:51:59 [DanC]
Zakim, close item 6
15:51:59 [Zakim]
agendum 6, a WSDL 1.1 description of the SPARQL protocol, closed
15:52:00 [Zakim]
I see 8 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
15:52:01 [Zakim]
7. BASE IRI resolution comment [from DanC]
15:52:02 [DanC]
Zakim, next item
15:52:02 [Zakim]
agendum 7. "BASE IRI resolution comment" taken up [from DanC]
15:52:46 [kendall]
zakim, mute me
15:52:46 [Zakim]
Kendall_Clark should now be muted
15:55:11 [DanC]
Elias is hereby appointed protocol-test czar/maintainer, with ericp's help
15:55:28 [DanC]
ACTION: ericP to send [OK?] message to Bjoern.
15:55:43 [DanC]
Zakim, next item
15:55:43 [Zakim]
agendum 8. "issues#queryMimeType" taken up [from DanC]
15:56:59 [DanC]
PROPOSED: that 1.474 of addresses issues#queryMimeType
15:57:04 [AndyS]
$Revision: 1.475 $ of $Date: 2005/08/30 13:55:17 $
15:57:24 [DanC]
Zakim, who's on the call?
15:57:24 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Yoshio, DanC, EliasT, HiroyukiS, LeeF, Kendall_Clark (muted), AndyS, ericP
15:58:41 [DanC]
15:59:34 [DanC]
ACTION EricP: change contact email to dawg-comments and call for review in IETF
15:59:50 [DanC]
ACTION EricP: respond to
15:59:59 [DanC]
Zakim, next item
16:00:00 [Zakim]
agendum 9. "grammar update" taken up [from DanC]
16:00:49 [DanC]
16:01:16 [Zakim]
16:01:17 [DanC]
RRSAgent, make logs world-access
16:01:23 [Zakim]
16:01:23 [DanC]
RRSAgent, please draft minutes
16:01:23 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate DanC
16:01:35 [Zakim]
16:02:14 [Zakim]
16:02:15 [Zakim]
16:02:21 [Zakim]
16:02:24 [DanC]
Chair: DanC
16:02:31 [DanC]
Meeting: RDF Data Access
16:02:40 [DanC]
RRSAgent, please draft minutes
16:02:40 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate DanC
16:02:51 [AndyS]
zakim, who is on the phone?
16:02:51 [Zakim]
On the phone I see AndyS, ericP
16:02:53 [DanC]
there. that was 2 easy fixes, EliasT
16:02:59 [DanC]
all yours now
16:05:41 [ericP]
'<' [^<>\u00-\u20]* '>'
16:05:57 [ericP]
'<' [^<>\#00-\#20]* '>'
16:06:20 [AndyS]
"<" (~[">","<","\u0000"-"\u0020"])* ">"
16:07:19 [Yoshio]
Yoshio has left #dawg
16:23:20 [Zakim]
16:23:21 [Zakim]
16:23:21 [Zakim]
SW_DAWG()10:30AM has ended
16:23:22 [Zakim]
Attendees were Kendall_Clark, Yoshio, Eliast, DanC, HiroyukiS, LeeF, JanneS, AndyS, ericP
16:50:37 [EliasT]
Just got back from lunch.
16:50:59 [EliasT]
Which 2 easy fixes you refer to DanC?
16:51:13 [DanC]
just Meeting: and Chair:
16:53:31 [EliasT]
k. cool.
16:53:43 [EliasT]
EliasT has left #dawg
16:59:02 [ericP]
xs:anyURI includes IRIs
16:59:26 [ericP]
Liam: to make i18n extra-happy, we could say that in SPARQL Query
18:30:27 [Zakim]
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