IRC log of eo on 2005-07-29

Timestamps are in UTC.

12:25:45 [RRSAgent]

RRSAgent has joined #eo

12:25:45 [RRSAgent]

logging to http://www.w3.org/2005/07/29-eo-irc

12:25:56 [Zakim]

Zakim has joined #eo

12:26:23 [Justin]

zakim, this will be eowg

12:26:23 [Zakim]

ok, Justin; I see WAI_EOWG()8:30AM scheduled to start in 4 minutes

12:27:15 [Justin]

Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-eo/2005JulSep/0041.html

12:27:20 [Justin]

Chair: Judy

12:27:39 [Justin]

Meeting: EOWG

12:28:27 [Zakim]

WAI_EOWG()8:30AM has now started

12:28:34 [Zakim]

+Shawn

12:28:41 [Justin]

Regrets: Liam, Pasquale

12:29:45 [Zakim]

+ +1.517.432.aaaa

12:30:00 [Zakim]

+Helle_Bjarno

12:30:03 [Justin]

Zakim, aaaa is Justin

12:30:03 [Zakim]

+Justin; got it

12:30:14 [Zakim]

+Bingham

12:30:30 [Zakim]

+Loughborough

12:30:39 [Zakim]

+Doyle_Saylor

12:31:25 [Zakim]

+ +40.39.147.3aabb

12:31:29 [Zakim]

+??P6

12:31:37 [Helle]

Helle has joined #eo

12:31:41 [Zakim]

+??P8

12:31:44 [Andrew]

zakim, ??P8 is Andrew

12:31:44 [Zakim]

+Andrew; got it

12:32:08 [Harvey]

Harvey has joined #eo

12:32:21 [shawn]

zakim, ??p6 is Wayne

12:32:21 [Zakim]

+Wayne; got it

12:32:27 [Zakim]

+Chuck_Letourneau

12:33:02 [shawn]

zakim, aabb is Alan_maybe

12:33:02 [Zakim]

+Alan_maybe; got it

12:33:09 [Zakim]

+Judy

12:34:02 [Zakim]

+Jack

12:34:37 [Justin]

Regrets +Ron

12:36:41 [judy]

judy has joined #eo

12:36:51 [shawn]

zakim, who is here?

12:36:51 [Zakim]

On the phone I see Shawn, Justin, Helle_Bjarno (muted), Bingham, Loughborough, Doyle_Saylor, Alan_maybe, Wayne, Andrew, Chuck_Letourneau, Judy, Jack

12:36:53 [Zakim]

On IRC I see judy, Harvey, Helle, Zakim, RRSAgent, Justin, Andrew, achuter, Wayne, shawn

12:37:34 [Zakim]

+??P12

12:37:47 [shawn]

zakim, ??p12 is Tanguy

12:37:47 [Zakim]

+Tanguy; got it

12:39:12 [Wayne]

Topic 1:

12:39:52 [Wayne]

Outreach

12:40:23 [Jack]

Jack has joined #eo

12:41:57 [Wayne]

Topic: Outreach

12:42:17 [shawn]

the new WAI site is up ! ! !

12:43:09 [Wayne]

Shawn: Thanks to Justin for his help!!!

12:44:31 [Zakim]

-Alan_maybe

12:44:54 [shawn]

q+ to ask when RSS page comes up: anyone able to test RSS feed ?

12:45:17 [Zakim]

+Alan

12:45:47 [Wayne]

William: Talking signs are included in transportation legislation on its way to the president.

12:46:55 [Wayne]

William: The bill has gotten through both houses and conference committee.

12:49:00 [Wayne]

Topic: Face to Face Meetings

12:50:42 [shawn]

http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35532/WAI_EOWG_F2F_S05/

12:51:45 [Wayne]

Judy: Is the WBS usable? ... overall yes

12:53:00 [Wayne]

Judy: Asked the group to fill out the WBS form on Face to Face during the meeting time.

12:53:26 [Wayne]

Topic: RSS Page on the WAI Site

12:53:38 [shawn]

http://www.w3.org/WAI/highlights/about-rss.html

12:54:28 [Wayne]

Judy: The RSS page now is a placeholder, but it also attempts explain the meaning of RSS in plain language.

12:55:49 [Wayne]

Alan: There are sites on RSS readers to link to.

12:56:48 [Wayne]

Shawn: To find RSS readers on Google

12:57:36 [Wayne]

William: Can this be a form. From an accessibility point of view this is a nightmare.

12:59:34 [Zakim]

-Alan

12:59:46 [Wayne]

Shawn: There are different methods, so explaining all will be difficult

13:01:06 [Wayne]

Justin: This keeps people up to date without having to reread lots of stuff.

13:01:33 [Andrew]

from "blogspace.com/rss/readers" - RSS and Atom files provide news updates from a website in a simple form for your computer. You read these files in a program called an aggregator, which collects news from various websites and provides it to you in a simple form.

13:02:14 [Wayne]

William: This (RSS) is very important... We need to explain it.

13:06:52 [judy]

...this is a mechanism to alert people when new information becomes available.

13:07:09 [judy]

(that was from wayne)

13:07:21 [shawn]

s/.../Wayne

13:08:23 [Wayne]

Doyle: Take Andrew's comment without the aggregator term

13:08:40 [shawn]

RSS reader (called an "aggregator")

13:08:42 [Wayne]

Andrew: We need the concept of aggregation.

13:10:04 [shawn]

Judy: "footer" type info - for more info on RSS... RSS stands for...

13:10:56 [Wayne]

Judy: How do we tie this back to WAI?

13:11:29 [Wayne]

Harvey: It would be nice to get a how to description.

13:11:46 [shawn]

shawn: perhaps provide button to Google Search results for readers (not sure this was minuted earlier)

13:13:43 [shawn]

ack me

13:13:43 [Zakim]

shawn, you wanted to ask when RSS page comes up: anyone able to test RSS feed ?

13:13:57 [Wayne]

Judy: A lot of people would need it.

13:15:45 [Andrew]

Andrew: we intend to use the feed to diplay WAI news on our website

13:17:00 [Wayne]

Judy: We present it as a usefull new technology and give a gentle introduction.

13:17:34 [judy]

jb: rss is something that's become available recently; it's a way of getting updates of new information from a site; it's fairly easy to sign up for; here's what we plan to deliver over it, and why that might be useful for you; here's how you find out more; here's how you sign up for it.

13:17:55 [judy]

...and you can even build the rss feed into your web site...

13:18:00 [judy]

(last from shawn)

13:18:31 [shawn]

s/.../Shawn:

13:18:45 [Wayne]

Shawn: We need to note the two uses is individual and site references.

13:19:21 [Harvey]

Include how to subscribe to a variety of RSS sources

13:20:51 [shawn]

sidenote: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ig/2005JulSep/0000

13:21:04 [shawn]

Call for WCAG 2.0 Working Draft review

13:22:00 [Wayne]

William: RSS is deserving of an explanation and it use to accessibility.

13:23:01 [Wayne]

Topic: Introduction to Web Accessibility (discussion)

13:24:13 [shawn]

http://www.w3.org/WAI/intro/accessibility-new.php

13:24:50 [Justin]

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-eo/2005JulSep/0043.html

13:27:07 [shawn]

Judy: new WAI design uses interim logo....

13:32:05 [shawn]

eowg suggestion: swap 2nd & 3rd paragraphs

13:34:00 [shawn]

(shawn really likes that suggestion on first reaction!)

13:36:56 [Helle]

http://www.w3.org/WAI/lexicon/

13:37:19 [Justin]

http://www.w3.org/WAI/lexicon/Overview

13:38:18 [judy]

from lexicon: Web accessibility means that the Web is designed so that people with disabilities can perceive, understand, navigate, and interact with it effectively, as well as create and contribute content to the Web.

13:39:01 [shawn]

(which is in Version 1.1 of this doc: http://www.w3.org/WAI/intro/accessibility.php)

13:40:00 [Zakim]

+Natasha

13:41:40 [shawn]

eowg suggestion: ... and that they can contribute to the Web.

13:42:30 [Wayne]

Why accessibility is important?

13:44:36 [shawn]

question about grammar: An accessible Web can also help people with disabilities ?*TO*? more actively participate in society.

13:49:22 [Wayne]

Shawn: People who don't know the issues of accessibility may not get the third paragraph a their first introduction to why web accessibility is important.

13:51:00 [Wayne]

Judy: Reorder the paragraphs to 1, 3, 4, 2.

13:51:30 [Helle]

Helle has joined #eo

13:52:46 [Wayne]

Judy: Why are we reordering paragraphs: We are trying to present all the concepts in one place. So, reordering may be needed.

13:53:30 [shawn]

eowg suggestion: "Why Web Accessibility is Important" section: swap order 1, 2 goes to 4, 3 goes to 2, 4 goes to 3... (result: 1 as is, 2 unprecedented, 3 Social, 4. legal)

13:53:56 [shawn]

1 p, 2nd sentence:

13:53:57 [shawn]

It is essential that the Web is accessible in order to provide equal access and equal opportunity to people with disabilities.

13:54:10 [Wayne]

Making the Web Accessible

13:54:26 [shawn]

...essential that the Web [is/be/become] accessible

13:56:36 [shawn]

eowg suggestion: second section, first paragraph, second sentence ...essential that the Web @@be@@ accessible...

13:57:34 [shawn]

? "People developing Web sites need to know about and address Web accessibility."

13:57:59 [shawn]

address ? implement ? adopt ?

13:59:34 [shawn]

drop "know about"

14:00:27 [shawn]

know about accessibility and build it into their sites

14:00:33 [judy]

...need to know about accessibility adn build it into theri sites...

14:00:42 [shawn]

s/know about/ Wayne: know about

14:00:48 [Wayne]

People developing web sites need to know about web accessiblity and build it into their sites.

14:02:52 [Wayne]

Helle: The use of accessibility with web may be misleading.

14:03:48 [Wayne]

Judy: Will using accessibility witout the pairing "web accessibility" cause translation problems.

14:04:58 [shawn]

suugestion: careful about using "accessibility" without "Web"with it

14:06:11 [shawn]

build > include

14:06:43 [shawn]

part of process

14:07:06 [shawn]

part of

14:07:46 [shawn]

eowg suggestion: People developing Web sites need to know about and address Web accessibility. (see suggestions above)

14:11:03 [Wayne]

Shawn: After pointing to "Implementation Plan" follow with a reference to the "Intro toWCAG".

14:11:13 [shawn]

eowg suggestion: after "The document "Implementation Plan for Web Accessibility" lists basic steps for addressing accessibility in Web projects." add sentence pointing to wcag overview (implementation is management, point to developer stuff)

14:11:56 [Harvey]

Does "standard XHTML" imply that HTML is deprecated?

14:12:42 [shawn]

i wonder in response to Helle's comment, adding something about how tools can make it easier to "The document "Essential Components of Web Accessibility" describes the different responsibilities for Web accessibility, and how specific improvements could substantially improve Web accessibility."

14:14:10 [Wayne]

Helle: It seem like a lot of excessive extra work... "The effort required to make a site accessible depends on many factors..."

14:15:21 [Wayne]

Natasha: Web developers and web tools, here we only talk about developers.

14:15:39 [Wayne]

Shawn and William disagree.

14:17:51 [shawn]

"The effort required to make a site accessible depends on" > Making a site accessible can me simple or more complex depending on...

14:18:36 [Wayne]

Shawn: Maybe the paragraph on web conponents on the "making an accesible web" should be stronger about factors other that the developers lead inaccessible web sites.

14:25:18 [Wayne]

Judy: We need to move the agenda

14:26:41 [Wayne]

Judy: Take task force issue first, Have Shawn look at survey

14:28:38 [Wayne]

Topic: Update on Eval Suite Task Force

14:29:40 [judy]

http://www.w3.org/WAI/EO/2005/erstf.html

14:30:01 [judy]

http://www.w3.org/WAI/EO/2005/ers-req.html

14:31:08 [Wayne]

Judy: Will send out a query on the documents with a simple multiple choice response.

14:35:22 [Wayne]

We will not have a meeting next Friday

14:36:14 [Wayne]

Post Meeting Notes:

14:36:19 [Zakim]

-Natasha

14:36:20 [Zakim]

-Chuck_Letourneau

14:36:21 [Zakim]

-Judy

14:36:21 [Zakim]

-Tanguy

14:36:23 [Zakim]

-Jack

14:36:49 [Zakim]

-Loughborough

14:36:50 [Zakim]

-Doyle_Saylor

14:36:58 [shawn]

zakim, who is here?

14:36:58 [Zakim]

On the phone I see Shawn, Justin, Helle_Bjarno, Bingham, Wayne, Andrew

14:36:59 [Zakim]

On IRC I see Helle, Jack, judy, Harvey, Zakim, RRSAgent, Justin, Andrew, Wayne, shawn

14:38:00 [Justin]

http://www.w3.org/WAI/intro/accessibility-new.php

14:38:44 [shawn]

"The effort required to make a site accessible depends on" > Making a site accessible can me simple or more complex depending on...

14:39:50 [shawn]

simple, easy...

14:40:04 [shawn]

complex, complicaetd...

14:40:23 [Andrew]

easy - difficult ??

14:40:38 [shawn]

heading: Making a Web Site Accessible > an Individual Site, a Specific... Your

14:40:56 [shawn]

eowg suggestion Making a Web Site Accessible > Making Your Web Site Accessible

14:41:20 [shawn]

eowg suggestion: "The effort required to make a site accessible depends on" > Making a site accessible can be simple or complex depending on...

14:43:29 [shawn]

eowg suggestion: Making the Web Accessible section - maybe add stronger the idea that it's not all the developer's responsibilities -- or transition in the beginin of the Making Your Web Site Accessible section

14:46:46 [shawn]

Evaluating a Web site for Accessibility

14:47:23 [Andrew]

evaluating the accessibility of a web site

14:47:28 [shawn]

Evaluating the Accessibility of a Web Site or Evaluating the Accessibility of Your Web Site

14:48:15 [shawn]

eowg suggestion: Evaluating the Accessibility of a Web Site

14:49:42 [Harvey]

We have an EO outreach responsibility to point out to other

14:50:34 [Harvey]

webmasters what they can do to recognize and improve the inaccessibility of their websites

14:51:07 [shawn]

eowg suggestion: link 2nd word in resources on managing accessibility, to detailed technical references.

14:51:43 [Wayne]

EO Suggestion: When the Lexicon is done include a pointer to the Lex document in the Terminology Section:

14:51:53 [Zakim]

-Helle_Bjarno

14:52:14 [Zakim]

-Wayne

14:57:17 [Zakim]

-Andrew

14:57:19 [Zakim]

-Bingham

14:57:25 [Zakim]

-Justin

14:57:26 [Zakim]

-Shawn

14:57:28 [Zakim]

WAI_EOWG()8:30AM has ended

14:57:29 [Zakim]

Attendees were Shawn, +1.517.432.aaaa, Helle_Bjarno, Justin, Bingham, Loughborough, Doyle_Saylor, +40.39.147.3aabb, Andrew, Wayne, Chuck_Letourneau, Alan_maybe, Judy, Jack, Tanguy,

14:57:31 [Zakim]

... Alan, Natasha

14:57:56 [Justin]

rrsagent, draft minutes

14:57:56 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2005/07/29-eo-minutes.html Justin

14:58:27 [Justin]

rrsagent, make logs world

15:22:44 [shawn]

shawn has left #eo