13:59:53 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #wai-wcag
13:59:53 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2005/06/08-wai-wcag-irc
13:59:57 <Michael> rrsagent, make log world
14:00:03 <ben> ben has joined #wai-wcag
14:00:13 <Michael> agenda+ Scribe class [http://www.w3.org/2001/12/zakim-irc-bot] [http://www.w3.org/2002/03/RRSAgent] [http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/scribedoc.htm]
14:00:24 <Michael> agenda+ Review of SC with respect to Scripting and baseline [http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-gl/2005AprJun/0680.html]
14:00:29 <David> test
14:00:34 <Michael> agenda+ Continue review of 1.3 [http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-gl/2005AprJun/0345.html]
14:00:42 <Zakim> WAI_WCAG(techniques)10:00AM has now started
14:00:44 <Michael> agenda+ Continue review of 2.4 [http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-gl/2005AprJun/att-0344/2005-05-02_issuesummary_techniques_2_4.html]
14:00:49 <Zakim> +??P11
14:00:55 <Michael> agenda+ Continue review of 4.2 [http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-gl/2005AprJun/0360.html]
14:00:59 <wendy> wendy has joined #wai-wcag
14:01:11 <Zakim> +Dave_MacDonald
14:01:14 <Zakim> -??P11
14:01:15 <Zakim> +??P11
14:01:17 <Michael> agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-gl/2005AprJun/0690.html
14:01:21 <Michael> chair: Michael Cooper
14:01:22 <Zakim> +Wendy
14:01:38 <Zakim> +??P17
14:01:42 <Zakim> +Matt
14:01:44 <ben> zakim, ??P17 is Ben
14:01:44 <Zakim> +Ben; got it
14:01:49 <Zakim> +Don_Evans
14:01:50 <Becky> Becky has joined #wai-wcag
14:01:55 <Zakim> +Michael_Cooper
14:02:31 <Zakim> +Becky_Gibson
14:02:42 <Zakim> +John_Slatin
14:02:48 <Michael> zakim, ??P11 is Chris_Ridpath
14:02:48 <Zakim> +Chris_Ridpath; got it
14:04:51 <wendy> agenda?
14:06:04 <Michael> regrets: Tim_Boland
14:06:24 <wendy> regrets+ Christophe
14:08:05 <wendy> http://www.w3.org/2005/05/26-wai-wcag-minutes.html
14:08:26 <wendy> action: name task
14:08:33 <wendy> resolution: text of resl
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14:09:12 <wendy> discussing: Proposed wording Level 1 SC3: A measure of the education level required to read the content is available.
14:10:13 <wendy> agenda?
14:10:39 <wendy> zakim, take up item 1
14:10:43 <Zakim> agendum 1. "Scribe class [http://www.w3.org/2001/12/zakim-irc-bot] [http://www.w3.org/2002/03/RRSAgent]" taken up [from
14:10:45 <Zakim> ... http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/scribedoc.htm via Michael]
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14:11:32 <jslatin> ?agenda 
14:11:46 <jslatin> agenda? 
14:12:34 <wendy> scribe: wendy
14:12:56 <wendy> chair: michael
14:13:18 <wendy> regrets+ testing-so
14:13:41 <wendy> RRSAgent, generate minutes
14:13:41 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2005/06/08-wai-wcag-minutes.html wendy
14:14:23 <wendy> that's all fkols
14:14:23 <wendy> s/fkols/folks
14:16:50 <Zakim> -Becky_Gibson
14:17:26 <wendy> zakim, who's here?
14:17:26 <Zakim> On the phone I see Chris_Ridpath, Dave_MacDonald, Wendy, Ben, Matt, Don_Evans, Michael_Cooper, John_Slatin
14:17:28 <Zakim> On IRC I see jslatin, DonFEvans, wendy, ben, RRSAgent, Zakim, Michael, mcmay, ChrisR, David
14:19:52 <wendy> zakim, next item
14:19:52 <Zakim> agendum 2. "Review of SC with respect to Scripting and baseline" taken up [from http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-gl/2005AprJun/0680.html]
14:28:32 <wendy> discussion about major points from review. there are many SC that don't apply to scripting/widgets.  questions about scripts that couldn't make accessible.
14:28:54 <wendy> 1.4, 4.1, and 3.2 seem to be most effected by scripting.
14:28:55 <wendy> with 3.2, if scripting is part of baseline, there is more to do.
14:31:10 <wendy> categories of things to think about for writing script techniques: 1. script accessible  2. providing fallbacks  3. advisory  4. things that are easier in scripts than not in scripts
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14:35:24 <Zakim> +Becky_Gibson
14:37:19 <wendy> base baseline (w/out scripts) use "unobtrusive javascript" (in a separate file. html works w/out it), although legacy javascript is not written this way.
14:37:38 <wendy> s/base baseline/one idea for base baseline
14:44:59 <wendy> can we recommend a javascript baseline that doesn't require fallbacks?
14:45:15 <wendy> believe that is one of the options we'll explain, otherwise some web application won't work.
14:45:38 <wendy> do we document javascript fallbacks at all? is that in the base baseline?
14:45:42 <ben> q+
14:46:08 <wendy> feeling from several thatwe do need to document fallbacks?
14:46:11 <wendy> s/?/.
14:48:16 <Michael> ack ben
14:48:16 <wendy> ack ben
14:49:57 <wendy> even in a higher technology baseline does there need to be at least info in a form that is compatible with the most basic baseline for the user to determine what is there?
14:50:11 <wendy> e.g., "this app uses javascript, turn it on or go home"
14:50:30 <wendy> question relates to guideline 1.1 always requiring a label and 4.2 requiring a fallback
14:51:10 <wendy> how does that work with the model where javascript is independent of the html
14:55:33 <wendy> discussion of differences betwen SC and techniques and how baseline fits into them.
14:55:33 <wendy> SC are what to do, Techs are how to do it.
14:55:40 <wendy> baseline is what technologies are used.
14:56:27 <wendy> for a tech not in your baseline, replicate the functionality w/something in your baseline. w/scripts have noted that not all functions can be replicated. therefore, provide a label that we can't replicate. is that where we're going?
14:56:43 <wendy> does that become a huge loophole? "i can't replicate...therefore, too bad for you"
15:00:36 <wendy> a label could describes the overall effect of the javascript(s), not each one script.
15:05:30 <wendy> lisa - if you use a tech that is not accessible, then you can't conform.
15:05:44 <jslatin> lisa, sorry but we can't do commenting both on phone and in IRC... 
15:07:16 <wendy> discussion about intranet site and what would be required - even need label? yes, b/c if have an issue can contact IT dept.
15:08:10 <wendy> 2 baselines: accessible scripting/enhanced access (2 approaches in one baseline), fallback/no script
15:08:57 <wendy> q+
15:09:10 <wendy> ack q
15:09:16 <Michael> ack wendy
15:19:47 <wendy> action: wendy, matt and becky discuss what to prep for F2F wrt scripting
15:20:03 <Zakim> -Matt
15:22:53 <wendy> zakim, next item
15:22:53 <Zakim> agendum 3. "Continue review of 1.3" taken up [from http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-gl/2005AprJun/0345.html]
15:23:29 <wendy> discussing - 6. Margins 
15:23:48 <wendy> ack j
15:24:26 <wendy> might map to proposed new SC about making text legible
15:24:33 <wendy> in absense of, perhaps advisory,, 3.1?
15:26:02 <wendy> instead of tech about &nbsp; can use spacing to create readability and then say don't use &nbsp;
15:27:26 <wendy> resolution: for now map to advisory for 3.1, update the tech to include info about why not a good idea (b/c the space will grow as font grows).  may map to new SC about readable text.
15:28:26 <wendy> discussing - 7. Creating layout, positioning, layering, and alignment
15:31:08 <wendy> resolution: delete reference to issue 308 in tech 5.2
15:34:46 <wendy> resolution: delete technique 5.2 - http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/WCAG20/WD-WCAG20-CSS-TECHS-20050211/#layout because it is covered by 9.4 Spacing letters and words and techs about absolute positioning.
15:35:11 <wendy> discussing - 8. Positioning (float, position)
15:35:18 <wendy> http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/WCAG20/WD-WCAG20-CSS-TECHS-20050211/#float
15:37:28 <wendy> isn't this covered by - http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/WCAG20/WD-WCAG20-CSS-TECHS-20050211/#absolute-positioning?
15:37:45 <wendy> do we need to discuss each property (or group of properties) or the effect of combining them?
15:42:33 <wendy> talk about positioning that covers several css properties, perhaps compare with html tables. 
15:44:51 <wendy> resolution: delete 5.3 Positioning (float, position) and do more work on 13.1 and other techniques that talk about positioning, using css w/scripting, etc. 
15:45:21 <wendy> discussing - 9. Providing additional structural information
15:45:43 <wendy> 6.2 Providing additional structural information - http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/WCAG20/WD-WCAG20-CSS-TECHS-20050211/#generated-content-clues
15:49:49 <wendy>  Issue 253: should we add a cautionary note about the potential misuses of CSS generated text?
15:50:02 <wendy> yes - concern about generated content
15:50:37 <Zakim> -Don_Evans
15:58:28 <wendy> resolution: 6.2 optional. map it to 3.1. if a SC is created about highlighting structure, map it to that. add example for exposing longdesc attribute.
16:03:10 <Zakim> -Michael_Cooper
16:03:11 <Zakim> -John_Slatin
16:03:12 <Zakim> -Wendy
16:03:13 <Zakim> -Becky_Gibson
16:03:15 <Zakim> -Dave_MacDonald
16:03:16 <Zakim> -Chris_Ridpath
16:03:17 <ChrisR> ChrisR has left #wai-wcag
16:03:18 <Zakim> WAI_WCAG(techniques)10:00AM has ended
16:03:19 <Zakim> Attendees were Dave_MacDonald, Wendy, Matt, Ben, Don_Evans, Michael_Cooper, Becky_Gibson, John_Slatin, Chris_Ridpath
16:03:21 <wendy> RRSAgent, generate minutes
16:03:21 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2005/06/08-wai-wcag-minutes.html wendy
16:06:03 <wendy> Meeting: TTF weekly telecon
16:06:11 <wendy> RRSAgent, generate minutes
16:06:11 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2005/06/08-wai-wcag-minutes.html wendy
16:14:52 <leasa> leasa has left #wai-wcag
17:19:25 <wendy> RRSAgent, bye
17:19:25 <RRSAgent> I see 2 open action items:
17:19:25 <RRSAgent> ACTION: name task [1]
17:19:25 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/06/08-wai-wcag-irc#T14-08-26
17:19:25 <RRSAgent> ACTION: wendy, matt and becky discuss what to prep for F2F wrt scripting [2]
17:19:25 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/06/08-wai-wcag-irc#T15-19-47
17:19:27 <wendy> zakim, bye
17:19:27 <Zakim> Zakim has left #wai-wcag