18:50:46 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #wai-wcag
18:50:46 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2005/05/26-wai-wcag-irc
18:52:55 <wendy> Regrets: Sebastiano Nutarelli, Makoto Ueki, WATANABE Takayuki
19:40:17 <wendy> zakim, this will be wcag
19:40:17 <Zakim> ok, wendy; I see WAI_WCAG()4:00PM scheduled to start in 20 minutes
19:43:58 <wendy> agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-gl/2005AprJun/0563.html
19:44:05 <wendy> agenda+ Agenda review and face to face announcements (5 minutes)
19:44:12 <wendy> agenda+ Techniques Task Force update (5 minutes)
19:44:26 <wendy> agenda+ Guideline 3.1 Proposals (25 minutes)
19:44:40 <wendy> agenda+ Guideline 2.3 Issue Summary and Proposals (25 minutes)
19:44:50 <wendy> agenda+ Guideline 2.2 Issue Summary and Proposals (25 minutes)
19:44:57 <wendy> agenda+ Guideline 3.2 Issue Summary and Proposals (25 minutes)
19:45:06 <wendy> agenda+ Guideline 4.1 Issue Summary and Proposals (25 minutes)
19:51:44 <Michael> Michael has joined #wai-wcag
19:54:50 <jslatin> jslatin has joined #wai-wcag
19:57:40 <Yvette> Yvette has joined #wai-wcag
19:57:44 <ben> ben has joined #wai-wcag
19:57:46 <Christophe> Christophe has joined #wai-wcag
19:57:48 <Yvette> Hi all
19:58:42 <jslatin> i didn't have time to make a chart of responses to straw poll. can someone help us track how many yesses, nos, etc.?
19:58:50 <Yvette> sure
19:58:59 <jslatin> want to identify controversial items for discussion first
19:59:17 <Zakim> WAI_WCAG()4:00PM has now started
19:59:24 <Zakim> +Michael_Cooper
19:59:36 <Yvette> some were even unanimous :-)
19:59:42 <Zakim> +John_Slatin
19:59:43 <Christophe> I don't have access to the results of the questionnaires
20:00:02 <Becky_Gibson> Becky_Gibson has joined #wai-wcag
20:00:02 <jslatin> whoops, i forgot-- i think that's jsut me and wendy and gregg, not sure
20:00:03 <Zakim> +Becky_Gibson
20:00:29 <wendy> everyone should have access to the questionnaires, lemme see if one of the settings i messed up.
20:00:30 <Yvette> I do have access
20:00:45 <rcastaldo> rcastaldo has joined #wai-wcag
20:00:51 <Zakim> +Wendy
20:00:53 <rcastaldo> Hi all :)
20:00:57 <Yvette> Hmm, I got kicked off the phone
20:01:05 <jslatin> hi roberto!
20:01:07 <wendy> christophe - which one were you trying to get?
20:01:13 <rcastaldo> Hi :)
20:01:15 <Zakim> +Yvette_Hoitink
20:01:22 <wendy> zakim, who's on the phone?
20:01:22 <Zakim> On the phone I see Michael_Cooper, John_Slatin, Becky_Gibson, Wendy, Yvette_Hoitink
20:01:34 <Zakim> +Christophe_Strobbe
20:01:43 <Zakim> +Loretta_Guarino_Reid
20:02:08 <Zakim> +Dave_MacDonald
20:02:14 <Zakim> + +1.202.558.aaaa - is perhaps Bengt_Farre
20:02:38 <Zakim> +Alex_Li
20:02:48 <Zakim> +Andi_Snow_Weaver
20:03:02 <Andi> Andi has joined #wai-wcag
20:03:11 <Zakim> +Matt
20:03:24 <mcmay> mcmay has joined #wai-wcag
20:03:31 <Zakim> +JasonWhite
20:03:49 <Zakim> +??P21
20:03:58 <ben> zakim, ??P21 is Gregg_and_Ben
20:03:58 <Zakim> +Gregg_and_Ben; got it
20:04:36 <David> David has joined #wai-wcag
20:04:39 <David> test
20:05:07 <Zakim> +Mike_Barta
20:05:20 <ben> zakim, who's on the phone?
20:05:20 <Zakim> On the phone I see Michael_Cooper, John_Slatin, Becky_Gibson, Wendy, Yvette_Hoitink, Christophe_Strobbe, Loretta_Guarino_Reid, Dave_MacDonald, Bengt_Farre, Alex_Li,
20:05:23 <Zakim> ... Andi_Snow_Weaver, Matt, JasonWhite, Gregg_and_Ben, Mike_Barta
20:05:41 <rcastaldo> I'm on the phone too :)
20:06:02 <gregg> gregg has joined #wai-wcag
20:06:36 <wendy> zakim, take up item 1
20:06:36 <Zakim> agendum 1. "Agenda review and face to face announcements (5 minutes)" taken up [from wendy]
20:07:55 <Zakim> -Bengt_Farre
20:08:07 <wendy> registration for F2F open until 8 June.
20:08:10 <wendy> zakim, close this item
20:08:10 <Zakim> agendum 1 closed
20:08:12 <Zakim> I see 6 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
20:08:13 <Zakim> 2. Techniques Task Force update (5 minutes) [from wendy]
20:08:17 <Yvette> zakim, mute me
20:08:17 <Zakim> Yvette_Hoitink should now be muted
20:08:19 <wendy> zakim, next item
20:08:19 <Zakim> agendum 2. "Techniques Task Force update (5 minutes)" taken up [from wendy]
20:08:23 <Zakim> + +1.202.558.aabb - is perhaps Bengt_Farre
20:08:33 <wendy> scribe: wendy
20:08:38 <wendy> mc: gives TTF update
20:08:47 <rcastaldo> I'm connected again, and I'm not Bengt_Farre
20:09:05 <wendy> baseline mockups soon. prep for discussion at F2F.  lots of work on 2.4.
20:09:45 <wendy> minutes from yesterday: http://www.w3.org/2005/05/25-wai-wcag-minutes.html
20:09:58 <wendy> (still need to be cleaned up)
20:10:49 <wendy> js: focus on next public WDs.
20:11:16 <wendy> zakim, close this item
20:11:16 <Zakim> agendum 2 closed
20:11:17 <Zakim> I see 5 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
20:11:19 <Zakim> 3. Guideline 3.1 Proposals (25 minutes) [from wendy]
20:11:19 <Zakim> -Michael_Cooper
20:11:20 <wendy> zakim, next item
20:11:21 <Zakim> agendum 3. "Guideline 3.1 Proposals (25 minutes)" taken up [from wendy]
20:12:11 <ben> Last Week's 3.1 Results: http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/meaning0516/results
20:12:33 <ben> This week's results (includes updated proposals for 3 criterion): http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/meaning0526/results
20:14:43 <wendy> zakim, who's making noise?
20:14:55 <Zakim> wendy, listening for 11 seconds I heard sound from the following: John_Slatin (73%), Christophe_Strobbe (4%), Loretta_Guarino_Reid (26%), Mike_Barta (4%)
20:15:26 <wendy> zakim, who's muted?
20:15:26 <Zakim> I see Yvette_Hoitink, Bengt_Farre muted
20:15:43 <rcastaldo> I'm muted too
20:17:10 <wendy> last week's 3.1 discussion: http://www.w3.org/2005/05/19-wai-wcag-minutes.html#item05
20:19:06 <wendy> discussing: Proposed wording Level 1 SC3: A measure of the education level required to read the content is available.
20:19:42 <Zakim> +Tim_Boland
20:20:10 <Yvette> q+
20:20:21 <Yvette> zakim, unmute me
20:20:21 <Zakim> Yvette_Hoitink should no longer be muted
20:20:24 <Tim> Tim has joined #wai-wcag
20:20:36 <Yvette> q-
20:21:03 <wendy> ack alex
20:22:12 <wendy> q+
20:22:43 <wendy> ack john
20:23:59 <Yvette> q+
20:25:49 <wendy> ack wendy
20:26:15 <gregg> q+
20:26:24 <wendy> ack yvette
20:28:03 <wendy> i have reservations, think it's important, but can live with it.
20:28:26 <gregg> ack g
20:28:35 <wendy> resolution: delete Level 1 SC3: A measure of the education level required to read the content is available.
20:28:49 <wendy> s/delete/not accept the proposal
20:29:53 <wendy> q+ to say, "should only be reopened with new evidence or information"
20:29:57 <wendy> q-
20:32:09 <wendy> discussing: Proposed text: A mechanism is available to identify the primary natural language or languages of the delivery unit.
20:33:00 <Yvette> q+ to say "Becky and I had similar alternative proposal"
20:34:35 <wendy> We need a definition of what "mechanism is available" means.
20:35:15 <Tim> how to objectively test "availability of mechanism"?
20:35:26 <wendy> action: john to take a pass at definition of what "mechanism is available" means
20:35:39 <wendy> ack yvette
20:35:39 <Zakim> Yvette, you wanted to say "Becky and I had similar alternative proposal"
20:35:57 <wendy> The primary natural language or languages of a delivery unit can be programmatically determined.
20:37:27 <wendy> 6 issues related to programmatically determined: http://tinyurl.com/8ralm
20:37:52 <wendy> especially: http://trace.wisc.edu/bugzilla_wcag/show_bug.cgi?id=1309
20:39:45 <wendy> ack alex
20:40:20 <wendy> ack john
20:42:30 <wendy> multiple languages per document, comma-separated list: "Technique 9: Provide a comma-separated list of languages" http://www.w3.org/International/geo/html-tech/tech-lang.html#ri20040728.121940236
20:45:11 <Christophe> that refers to HTTP headers, not to HTML's lang attribute
20:46:04 <Christophe> HTML spec always says "a language": e.g http://www.w3.org/TR/1999/REC-html401-19991224/sgml/dtd.html#LanguageCode
20:48:47 <Becky> q+
20:48:56 <wendy> ack becky
20:49:02 <ben> q+ to say, "we're using programmatically determined in ~ 6 other criterion"
20:49:10 <David> q+
20:51:03 <wendy> ack ben
20:51:04 <Zakim> ben, you wanted to say, "we're using programmatically determined in ~ 6 other criterion"
20:51:06 <wendy> oops.
20:51:15 <wendy> zakim, mute Bengt
20:51:15 <Zakim> Bengt_Farre should now be muted
20:51:25 <wendy> ack dav
20:51:32 <gregg> q+
20:51:37 <Tim> I prefer "programmatically determined" from testing standpoint 
20:52:21 <gregg> ack g
20:54:06 <gregg> The primary natural language or languages of the delivery unit can be programmatically determined.
20:54:14 <wendy> resolution: use "programmatically determined" here. will consider other uses of "mechanism is available" at a later time. 
20:54:23 <wendy> resolution: The primary natural language or languages of the delivery unit can be programmatically determined.
20:55:05 <wendy> Discussing: Proposed wording Level 3 SC1: A mechanism is available for identifying specific definitions of words used in an unusual or restricted way, including idioms and jargon.
20:55:16 <wendy> Current text: Where a word has multiple meanings and the intended meaning is not the first in the associated dictionary(s), then additional markup or another mechanism is provided for determining the correct meaning.
20:57:50 <Yvette> zakim, mute me
20:57:50 <Zakim> Yvette_Hoitink should now be muted
20:58:31 <gregg> q+
20:58:59 <wendy> ack g
20:59:01 <Becky> q+
21:01:02 <rcastaldo> I've got to leave the call. Bye everybody, hear you next week
21:01:11 <Zakim> -Bengt_Farre
21:01:18 <rcastaldo> rcastaldo has left #wai-wcag
21:01:43 <Michael> Michael has joined #wai-wcag
21:01:52 <wendy> Note that Bengt was actually Roberto Castaldo
21:02:14 <wendy> ack b
21:02:53 <Zakim> +Michael_Cooper
21:03:17 <wendy> ack j
21:04:32 <wendy> q+ to ask "time check?"
21:06:38 <wendy> q-
21:08:03 <wendy> becky gives example about teen site and slang used to appeal to.
21:08:22 <wendy> john says "not assuming authors will design a site to be used by the entire world" - is an implicit assumption
21:08:49 <wendy> include this idea/example and "restricted way" - in guide doc
21:11:01 <wendy> resolution: adopt proposed wording for Level 3 SC1 - A mechanism is available for identifying specific definitions of words used in an unusual or restricted way, including idioms and jargon.  Issue: need to define tests for "unusual or restricted way"
21:15:17 <wendy> action: john send updated guideline 3.1 with decisions from today
21:15:21 <wendy> zakim, close this item
21:15:21 <Zakim> agendum 3 closed
21:15:22 <Zakim> I see 4 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
21:15:23 <Zakim> 4. Guideline 2.3 Issue Summary and Proposals (25 minutes) [from wendy]
21:15:25 <wendy> zakim, next item
21:15:25 <Zakim> agendum 4. "Guideline 2.3 Issue Summary and Proposals (25 minutes)" taken up [from wendy]
21:15:47 <wendy> http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/flicker2005-05-25/results
21:16:28 <wendy> issue 1323 - 11 close this issue, 1 keep it open
21:16:41 <wendy> q+ to say "focus on controversial"
21:17:04 <wendy> e.g., - Issue 1167 - Should we add a level 3 SC about notification? 3 - 9
21:17:21 <wendy> resolution: close issue 1323 with gv's comment
21:18:49 <wendy> q-
21:19:35 <wendy> resolution: close issue 1386
21:21:16 <Yvette> zakim, unmute me
21:21:16 <Zakim> Yvette_Hoitink should no longer be muted
21:24:26 <wendy> resolution: do not add a new level 3 SC about notification and close issue 1167.
21:25:19 <wendy> resolution: adopt Proposed wording Guideline 2.3 Allow users to avoid content that could cause seizures due to photosensitivity.
21:26:09 <wendy> zakim, close this item
21:26:09 <Zakim> agendum 4 closed
21:26:10 <Zakim> I see 3 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
21:26:11 <Zakim> 5. Guideline 2.2 Issue Summary and Proposals (25 minutes) [from wendy]
21:26:22 <wendy> zakim, next item
21:26:22 <Zakim> agendum 5. "Guideline 2.2 Issue Summary and Proposals (25 minutes)" taken up [from wendy]
21:26:28 <ben> 2.2 survey results: http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/time-limits0525/results
21:29:04 <wendy> q+ to propose that Christophe rework proposal based on feedback
21:32:33 <gregg> ack w
21:32:33 <Zakim> wendy, you wanted to propose that Christophe rework proposal based on feedback
21:33:35 <wendy> resolution/action: christophe rework proposal for Level 1 SC 1 based on feedback
21:34:11 <Zakim> -Tim_Boland
21:34:22 <Tim> Have to leave call now..best wishes
21:34:25 <Tim> Tim has left #wai-wcag
21:34:59 <wendy> Discussing: Proposed wording Level 2 SC 1: Content does not blink, or a method is available to stop any blinking of content in the delivery unit, or a method is available to disallow blinking entirely in the content of the delivery unit.
21:35:23 <wendy> responses: proposed 5, current 4. lots of comments.
21:36:16 <wendy> resolution/action: christophe reword proposal for Level 2 SC 1 based on feedback.
21:36:48 <wendy> resolution: adopt Proposed wording for Level 2 SC 2: Moving or time-based content can be paused by the user.
21:38:08 <Yvette> zakim, unmute me
21:38:08 <Zakim> Yvette_Hoitink was not muted, Yvette
21:39:29 <Andi> q+
21:40:44 <wendy> ack q
21:44:03 <gregg> ack a
21:44:05 <gregg> ack j
21:46:11 <Zakim> -Matt
21:49:09 <wendy> resolution: adopt Proposed wording for Level 3 SC 1: Except for real-time events, timing is not an essential part of the event or activity presented by the content. (clarify issues with differences between level 1 and this in the guide doc. e.g., a test that conforms to level 3 does not have a timeout)
21:51:30 <wendy> discussing: Proposed wording Level 3 SC 2: Non-emergency interruptions, such as the availability of updated content, are turned off by default.
21:51:49 <wendy> q+
21:53:14 <wendy> ack w
21:55:35 <wendy> counter-proposal: Non-emergency interruptions, such as the availability of updated content, can be postponed or suppressed by the user.
21:55:40 <Zakim> +Matt
21:56:32 <wendy> resolution: adopt modification of current wording for Level 3 SC 2 - Non-emergency interruptions, such as the availability of updated content, can be postponed or suppressed by the user.
21:56:37 <jslatin> just make it "notice about the availability" and we're all set
21:56:57 <wendy> discussing: Proposal for new benefit: People with low computer literacy, particularly the elderly, do not get confused or are not led to think that they have made a mistake.
21:57:27 <Yvette> q+
21:57:37 <Yvette> q-
21:58:03 <wendy> resolution: since informative, discuss proposed new benefit (re: low computer literacy) on the list.
21:58:25 <wendy> Issue 880 - Should blinking and movement be covered? - yes.
21:58:36 <wendy> however, need a proposal
21:58:49 <wendy> discussing -Issue 1525 - Reject the issue about server timeouts?
21:59:16 <wendy> 6 said to reject the issue, 2 said not to reject
21:59:48 <wendy> q+ to ask if that is accessibility or usability?
21:59:49 <ben> q+ to ask, "how is this case not already covered by level 1 SC?"
22:01:04 <wendy> several comments that the author does not control the server
22:01:51 <Andi> q+
22:02:34 <wendy> ack wendy
22:02:34 <Zakim> wendy, you wanted to ask if that is accessibility or usability?
22:03:50 <Zakim> -JasonWhite
22:05:24 <Andi> q-
22:05:29 <wendy> ack b
22:05:29 <Zakim> ben, you wanted to ask, "how is this case not already covered by level 1 SC?"
22:07:12 <wendy> http://trace.wisc.edu/bugzilla_wcag/show_bug.cgi?id=800
22:07:16 <wendy> ack a
22:07:36 <wendy> http://trace.wisc.edu/bugzilla_wcag/show_bug.cgi?id=1525
22:08:28 <wendy> unresolved question: should server time-outs be at a lower level (2 or 3)?
22:09:22 <wendy> action: christophe look at comments on issue 1525 and write proposal to address.
22:09:30 <wendy> zakim, close this item
22:09:30 <Zakim> agendum 5 closed
22:09:31 <Zakim> I see 2 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
22:09:32 <Zakim> 6. Guideline 3.2 Issue Summary and Proposals (25 minutes) [from wendy]
22:09:37 <wendy> zakim, save agenda
22:09:43 <Zakim> ok, wendy, the agenda has been written to http://www.w3.org/2005/05/26-wai-wcag-agenda.rdf
22:09:46 <wendy> Chair: Gregg
22:10:05 <wendy> RRSagent, generate minutes
22:10:05 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2005/05/26-wai-wcag-minutes.html wendy
22:10:14 <Zakim> -Mike_Barta
22:10:16 <Zakim> -Loretta_Guarino_Reid
22:10:17 <Zakim> -Matt
22:10:17 <Zakim> -Andi_Snow_Weaver
22:10:18 <wendy> RRSAgent, make log public
22:10:18 <Zakim> -Wendy
22:10:19 <Zakim> -Becky_Gibson
22:10:20 <Zakim> -Dave_MacDonald
22:10:22 <Zakim> -Alex_Li
22:10:24 <Zakim> -Gregg_and_Ben
22:10:29 <Zakim> -Michael_Cooper
22:10:34 <Zakim> -John_Slatin
22:10:39 <Zakim> -Christophe_Strobbe
22:10:39 <Zakim> -Yvette_Hoitink
22:10:39 <Zakim> WAI_WCAG()4:00PM has ended
22:10:39 <Zakim> Attendees were Michael_Cooper, John_Slatin, Becky_Gibson, Wendy, Yvette_Hoitink, Christophe_Strobbe, Loretta_Guarino_Reid, Dave_MacDonald, +1.202.558.aaaa, Alex_Li,
22:10:39 <Zakim> ... Andi_Snow_Weaver, Matt, JasonWhite, Gregg_and_Ben, Mike_Barta, +1.202.558.aabb, Tim_Boland
22:10:39 <Yvette> Yvette has left #wai-wcag
22:11:30 <wendy> Present: Michael_Cooper, John_Slatin, Becky_Gibson, Wendy Chisholm, Yvette_Hoitink, Christophe_Strobbe, Loretta_Guarino_Reid, Dave_MacDonald, Alex_Li, Andi_Snow_Weaver, Matt May, Jason White, Gregg Vanderheiden, Ben Caldwell, Mike_Barta, Roberto Castaldo, Tim_Boland
22:11:58 <Christophe> Christophe has left #wai-wcag
22:12:14 <wendy> RRSagent, generate minutes
22:12:14 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2005/05/26-wai-wcag-minutes.html wendy
22:30:43 <wendy> zakim, by
22:30:43 <Zakim> I don't understand 'by', wendy
22:30:45 <wendy> zakim, bye
22:30:45 <Zakim> Zakim has left #wai-wcag
22:30:48 <wendy> RRSAgent, bye
22:30:48 <RRSAgent> I see 3 open action items:
22:30:48 <RRSAgent> ACTION: john to take a pass at definition of what "mechanism is available" means [1]
22:30:48 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/05/26-wai-wcag-irc#T20-35-26
22:30:48 <RRSAgent> ACTION: john send updated guideline 3.1 with decisions from today [2]
22:30:48 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/05/26-wai-wcag-irc#T21-15-17
22:30:48 <RRSAgent> ACTION: christophe look at comments on issue 1525 and write proposal to address. [3]
22:30:48 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/05/26-wai-wcag-irc#T22-09-22