IRC log of swbp on 2005-04-21

Timestamps are in UTC.

16:57:39 [RRSAgent]

RRSAgent has joined #swbp

16:57:39 [RRSAgent]

logging to http://www.w3.org/2005/04/21-swbp-irc

16:57:48 [Ralph]

Meeting: SemWeb Best Practices and Deployment

16:57:52 [Zakim]

Zakim has joined #swbp

16:57:56 [Ralph]

zakim, this will be swbp

16:57:56 [Zakim]

ok, Ralph; I see SW_BPD()1:00PM scheduled to start in 3 minutes

16:58:04 [Zakim]

SW_BPD()1:00PM has now started

16:58:05 [Ralph]

Chair: DavidW

16:58:11 [Zakim]

+David_Wood

16:58:41 [Zakim]

+??P3

16:58:44 [Ralph]

Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swbp-wg/2005Apr/0059.html

16:59:00 [Zakim]

+Alistair_Miles (was ??P3)

16:59:03 [Ralph]

Ralph has changed the topic to: 21-April WG telecon agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swbp-wg/2005Apr/0059.html

16:59:24 [Zakim]

+??P5

16:59:26 [Zakim]

+Ralph

16:59:37 [jjc]

jjc has joined #swbp

16:59:38 [PhilT]

PhilT has joined #swbp

16:59:59 [DavidW]

DavidW has joined #swbp

17:00:20 [Ralph]

Regrets: GuusS, SteveP, BenjaminN, NatashaN, DanBri, TomB, DarrenG, GaryN, MarcoN, BrianM, AldoG

17:00:34 [Ralph]

-> http://www.w3.org/2005/04/07-swbp-minutes.html previous 2004-04-07

17:01:17 [Ralph]

Regrets+ ValentinaP

17:01:33 [DavidW]

Regrets: Jeff Pan, Valentina Presutti

17:01:58 [Zakim]

+[Sophia]

17:02:16 [Ralph]

zakim, sophia is Fabien

17:02:16 [Zakim]

+Fabien; got it

17:02:42 [FabGandon]

FabGandon has joined #swbp

17:02:51 [Zakim]

+Elisa_Kendall

17:03:13 [Zakim]

+Phil_Tetlow

17:03:41 [Ralph]

Scribe: Jeremy

17:03:53 [Ralph]

ScribeNick: Jeremy

17:04:49 [Jeremy]

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swbp-wg/2005Apr/0059

17:04:51 [Jeremy]

agenda

17:05:59 [Jeremy]

ending time 18:25 UTC but might be shorter

17:06:07 [DavidW]

PROPOSED to accept the minutes of the April 7 telecon:

17:06:07 [DavidW]

http://www.w3.org/2005/04/07-swbp-minutes.html

17:06:08 [Jeremy]

minutes of last telecon

17:06:09 [Zakim]

+Gavin_McKenzie

17:06:21 [Jeremy]

ralph seconds

17:06:25 [Jeremy]

no objections

17:06:29 [Jeremy]

so moved

17:06:30 [Zakim]

+Libby_Miller

17:06:38 [Zakim]

+??P14

17:06:38 [DavidW]

PROPOSED next telecon

17:06:38 [DavidW]

5 May, 1700 UTC

17:06:41 [Ralph]

s/moved/RESOLVED/

17:06:43 [Jeremy]

next telecon proposal 5 May

17:06:46 [ChrisW]

ChrisW has joined #swbp

17:07:28 [Jeremy]

some doubt over whether chair will be available

17:07:39 [dlm]

dlm has joined #swbp

17:07:40 [Jeremy]

chair proposes to schedule call and possibly cancel

17:07:45 [libby]

libby has joined #swbp

17:07:55 [Zakim]

+Chris_Welty

17:08:09 [dlm]

note to scribe - i joined a few minutes ago

17:08:13 [Ralph]

zakim, ??p14 is DebM

17:08:13 [Zakim]

+DebM; got it

17:08:21 [Jeremy]

Jeremy: I won't make it either, will Japan mess up people's availability?

17:08:49 [Jeremy]

Ralph: my preference is to have a meeting

17:08:53 [Jeremy]

even if short

17:09:13 [Jeremy]

RESOLVED next meeting 5 may

17:09:18 [Zakim]

-Phil_Tetlow

17:09:20 [DavidW]

zakim, who is talking?

17:09:31 [Zakim]

DavidW, listening for 11 seconds I heard sound from the following: David_Wood (22%), Alistair_Miles (5%), Ralph (14%)

17:09:35 [Ralph]

I volunteer to chair on 5 May if necessary

17:10:00 [ekw]

ekw has joined #swbp

17:10:09 [Jeremy]

general actions, two both marked done

17:10:10 [DavidW]

ACTION: Guus to organise straw poll on f2f location

17:10:23 [DavidW]

DONE

17:10:23 [DavidW]

http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35495/ftf2005/

17:10:23 [DavidW]

ACTION: Ralph investigate what action may be taken when an interested

17:10:29 [DavidW]

participant has been unable to get a response from his AC Rep

17:10:29 [DavidW]

DONE?!?:

17:10:29 [DavidW]

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swbp-wg/2005Apr/0048.html

17:10:37 [Ralph]

-- done

17:10:55 [Zakim]

+Evan_Wallace

17:11:11 [Zakim]

+Phil_Tetlow

17:11:38 [Zakim]

-Phil_Tetlow

17:11:55 [Jeremy]

agenda amendments move SE TF up to top of list

17:12:44 [Ralph]

^agenda^Topic: Admin

17:12:46 [Jeremy]

Jeremy: might want to consider if we want to make a WG comment on SCD doc

17:13:42 [Jeremy]

David: tough since no one has read it, discuss under action item

17:14:06 [Jeremy]

2.1 Liason discussion has been had at CG level, but still deadlocked

17:14:17 [Jeremy]

2.2 ODM review

17:14:22 [Ralph]

^2.1^Topic: Liaison

17:14:24 [Zakim]

+ +44.774.0.aaaa

17:14:32 [Jeremy]

Guus's action continued

17:14:46 [ChrisW]

that was elisa

17:14:54 [Jeremy]

Deb's actions continued

17:14:56 [Ralph]

ACTION Guus to review OWL metamodel

17:15:01 [Ralph]

ACTION Deb to go over OWL metamodel and provide a summary

17:15:31 [Jeremy]

(althought Pat Hayes comment addressed some of Deb's points)

17:15:45 [Jeremy]

2.3 XML Schema Component Designators

17:15:52 [Ralph]

zakim, aaaa is Phil_Tetlow

17:15:52 [Zakim]

+Phil_Tetlow; got it

17:15:52 [Jeremy]

Jeremy posted review just before call

17:15:57 [Ralph]

ACTION jjc to review XML schema LC draft

17:15:59 [Ralph]

-- done

17:16:06 [Ralph]

ACTION jeff to review XML schema LC draft

17:16:09 [Ralph]

-- continues

17:16:25 [Ralph]

Jeremy: I suggested a WG response that was positive

17:16:53 [ChrisW]

zakim, who is talking?

17:17:04 [Zakim]

ChrisW, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Alistair_Miles (15%), Jeremy (29%), Ralph (34%), Elisa_Kendall (4%), Libby_Miller (29%), Phil_Tetlow (10%)

17:17:10 [Ralph]

-> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swbp-wg/2005Apr/0073.html XML Schema Component Designators Review [Jeremy 2005-04-21]

17:17:12 [aliman]

zakim, mute Alistair

17:17:12 [Zakim]

Alistair_Miles should now be muted

17:17:35 [Ralph]

Jeremy: I suggested one comment we might want to make regarding namespace bindings

17:18:17 [Jeremy]

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swbp-wg/2005Apr/0073

17:19:46 [Ralph]

Ralph: suggests that Jeremy post his review to both WGs as his own review

17:19:52 [Jeremy]

Jeremy: agree

17:20:34 [Jeremy]

ACTION: jeremy post personal review to XSCD doc

17:21:17 [DavidW]

ack Ralph

17:21:26 [Ralph]

Topic: TF Updates

17:21:36 [Jeremy]

item 3.10, SE

17:22:00 [Jeremy]

Phil we're pretty close to second version of note for WG consideration, probably within next three weeks

17:22:07 [aliman]

zakim, unmute alistair

17:22:07 [Zakim]

Alistair_Miles should no longer be muted

17:22:35 [Zakim]

-Phil_Tetlow

17:22:48 [Jeremy]

3.1 PORT

17:22:54 [Jeremy]

Alistair:

17:23:17 [Jeremy]

SKOS core and docs, Tom Baker asked how SKOS Core is managed, and how that relates to W3C process

17:23:21 [Jeremy]

and managing docs

17:23:35 [Jeremy]

Current process model is editors can change it at any time

17:23:56 [Jeremy]

So the current version of SKOS core can be out-of-sync with published WG note

17:24:10 [Jeremy]

Meeting in Berlin Zoo

17:24:14 [Jeremy]

last week

17:24:32 [aliman]

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swbp-wg/2005Apr/0072.html

17:24:33 [Jeremy]

suggested different process model that fits in with W3C process dor publishing docs

17:24:41 [Jeremy]

as suggested in e-mail above

17:25:40 [Jeremy]

After publication of WD by WG, SKOS Core is frozen, but possible changes are recorded

17:26:11 [Jeremy]

any then with a new WD the changes agree by WG get rolled in to SKOS Core and new WD

17:26:43 [DavidW]

ack Ralph

17:26:43 [Zakim]

Ralph, you wanted to ask what "the editors can change it at any time" means

17:27:39 [Zakim]

-Elisa_Kendall

17:27:40 [DavidW]

zakim, mute me

17:27:41 [Zakim]

David_Wood should now be muted

17:28:26 [Jeremy]

ralph: I saw small group of developers around SKOS and turning it into more formal W3C like process

17:28:35 [Jeremy]

this is a change for the SKOS community

17:28:47 [Jeremy]

may they be expecting to make more frequent changes?

17:30:20 [Jeremy]

ralph: doing a diff on two versions of an editors draft should be able to be correlated with e-mail

17:30:34 [Jeremy]

so that changes are owned by the WG through the e-mail

17:30:53 [Jeremy]

Alistair: more informal version of DCMI usage board

17:31:37 [Jeremy]

key change being proposed is that changes won't actually be implemented until SWBPD WG approves WD

17:32:08 [Jeremy]

Ralph: key change is move from informal process as the current SKOS community may expect to a more formal process

17:32:22 [Jeremy]

Alistair: most people in SKOS community would like SKOS core to be more stable

17:32:53 [Jeremy]

Tom: confusion between editors draft and public WDs

17:33:09 [Jeremy]

q+ to talk about OWL and RDF experience

17:33:50 [Jeremy]

Ralph: WG is free to modify namespace doc between versions of WDs

17:34:13 [Jeremy]

but important to align expectations of community with expectations of WG

17:34:45 [Jeremy]

Alistair: from meeting with Tom, it would be good to have a W3C process for maintaining vocab

17:35:58 [Jeremy]

ralph: as PORT TF asks WG to publish notes, the WG assumes ownership of vocab

17:37:13 [Jeremy]

alistair: ownership of SKOS should be open community which anyone can contribute to it

17:38:23 [Ralph]

Jeremy: the OWL and RDF test cases had a similar issue with Working Drafts being published but the test case repository being changed in-place

17:39:10 [dlm]

is there a way i can do a quick update for oep? i have another telecon that started 10 minutes ago that i must go to.

17:39:19 [Zakim]

-Gavin_McKenzie

17:39:23 [Ralph]

... when the editor's drafts differed from the latest Working Draft, it was often because the test respository had changed

17:39:45 [Jeremy]

ack me

17:39:45 [Zakim]

Jeremy, you wanted to talk about OWL and RDF experience

17:40:07 [Jeremy]

alistair: Tom was not happy with the test cases model

17:40:15 [DavidW]

ack Ralph

17:40:16 [Zakim]

+Gavin_McKenzie

17:44:06 [Jeremy]

next TF 3.2 OEP

17:44:27 [Jeremy]

Deb and Chris report ...

17:45:02 [Jeremy]

update from Natasha's not on April 14

17:45:31 [Jeremy]

classes as values is now published note

17:45:54 [aliman]

zakim, mute alistair

17:45:54 [Zakim]

Alistair_Miles should now be muted

17:45:55 [Jeremy]

specified values note is ready to go

17:46:04 [Jeremy]

n-ary relations is still being revised

17:46:43 [DavidW]

DavidW has joined #swbp

17:47:21 [Jeremy]

with n-ary relations several requests to pick a pattern, and provide an RDF vocab for the pattern

17:47:35 [Jeremy]

then the vocab would need to be at a namespace doc etc etc

17:49:05 [Ralph]

Chris: applications that want higher -arity relations would like a way to translate to and from RDF's binary relations

17:49:26 [Ralph]

... a vocabulary accepted by most applications would facilitate this

17:49:53 [Ralph]

David: given the current state of the SemWeb, I have no trouble calling this 'best practice' rather than 'research'

17:50:09 [Ralph]

Ralph: is the OEP TF in a position to propose such a vocabulary?

17:50:16 [Jeremy]

Chris: yes

17:50:17 [dlm]

i emailed the short notes i had prepared for summary (from the oep email notes). chris' verbal comments take precedence. i have to go to the next telecon now.

17:50:25 [Ralph]

Chris: yes, we have something nearly ready to put in the document

17:50:49 [Jeremy]

David asks Deb if she is happy with this.

17:51:06 [Jeremy]

Deb: I don't mind haven't a standard vocab, as long as documented well

17:51:18 [DavidW]

q?

17:51:31 [Jeremy]

Ralph question of whether this becomes a formal rec is separate

17:52:06 [Jeremy]

Deb leaves ... maybe ... Chris goes on

17:52:10 [DavidW]

zakim, mute me

17:52:10 [Zakim]

David_Wood should now be muted

17:52:43 [Zakim]

-DebM

17:52:49 [Ralph]

Ralph: I encourage the TF to propose a vocabulary for converting between binary and n-ary relations

17:52:52 [Jeremy]

two other editors draft part/whole

17:53:20 [Jeremy]

guus wrote note on QCRs a year ago ... but now recovered

17:53:22 [Zakim]

-Chris_Welty

17:53:42 [ChrisW]

coming back

17:53:45 [Jeremy]

(Chris rudely interrupted by telecoms failure)

17:53:46 [DavidW]

zakim, unmute me

17:53:46 [Zakim]

David_Wood should no longer be muted

17:53:51 [Zakim]

+Chris_Welty

17:54:32 [Ralph]

-> http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/BestPractices/OEP/ OEP TF home (lists all editor's drafts)

17:54:33 [Jeremy]

Alan has agreed to take over editing QCRs note once part whole note is WD

17:55:08 [Jeremy]

Chris asks Ralph about Gerry Hobbs

17:55:14 [Jeremy]

and ISI AC rep

17:55:33 [Jeremy]

Ralph is expecting resolution any day soon

17:55:54 [aliman]

zakim, unmute alistair

17:55:54 [Zakim]

Alistair_Miles should no longer be muted

17:55:58 [Ralph]

ACTION: Ralph re-ping ISI AC Rep

17:56:07 [Jeremy]

3.3 Wordnet

17:56:13 [Jeremy]

Aldo's action is continued

17:56:17 [Ralph]

ACTION Aldo to propose an update the Wordnet TF description

17:56:42 [Jeremy]

Alistair has looked at datamodel and met with ISO group on temrinology

17:57:12 [Jeremy]

lots of overlap between ISO view, SKOS, and wordnet

17:58:22 [Jeremy]

Laurent Raumeri ... (sp?)

17:58:50 [Jeremy]

ACTION alistair e-mail group about ISO contact

17:58:58 [aliman]

Laurent Romary

17:59:26 [Jeremy]

Chris: Aldo has spoken about this community. Aldo attended some meeting with them

18:00:15 [Ralph]

ACTION Ralph help Jeff and Jeremy with XML Schema Datatype publication request

18:00:29 [Ralph]

The document transition was requested on 11 April -- http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/chairs/2005AprJun/0013.html

18:00:53 [Jeremy]

ralph claims action is done, but the document transition request fell down a crack

18:01:28 [Jeremy]

3.4 XML Schema datatypes

18:01:35 [Ralph]

ACTION: Ralph get XML Schema Datatype transition request unstuck

18:01:35 [Jeremy]

is the agendum for above discussion

18:02:16 [Ralph]

Jeremy: I have not yet considered Ashok's review

18:02:26 [aliman]

Other TC37 contact: Alan K. Melby

18:02:29 [Ralph]

... polite to respond to him acknowledging the review

18:02:46 [Jeremy]

ACTION: jeremy polite reply to ashok setting expectations

18:03:10 [Jeremy]

3.5 Vocabulary management (TomB)

18:03:22 [Jeremy]

Alsitair: we had a chat last week

18:04:03 [Jeremy]

3.6 RDF-in-HTML (Ben)

18:04:12 [Ralph]

ACTION DanBri help write an rdf schema for the additional xhtml2 namespace elements

18:04:12 [Ralph]

ACTION Gavin find out from his community and contacts if they have use cases

18:04:15 [Jeremy]

ben absent, ralph gives update

18:04:32 [Jeremy]

these two actions are still outstanding

18:05:11 [Jeremy]

still awaiting XHTML2 LC WD

18:06:38 [Jeremy]

q+ to talk about HP response

18:09:17 [Zakim]

Jeremy, you wanted to talk about HP response

18:09:32 [Ralph]

Jeremy: from what I can tell there does not seem to be a lot of enthusiasm in HP for GRDDL

18:10:07 [Ralph]

Gavin: (earlier) got expressions of support for GRDDL within Adobe, w.r.t. XHTML1

18:10:18 [Ralph]

... will write this in mail

18:10:31 [Ralph]

Jeremy: HP not opposed to GRDDL moving forward but not enthused either

18:11:11 [Jeremy]

3.7 ADTF (Libby)

18:11:18 [Jeremy]

Libby not much to report

18:11:29 [Jeremy]

e-mail discussion on-going

18:12:33 [Jeremy]

chris: if one of the criteria is that it has to be RDF or OWL, didn't we have to change title to avoid question of scope of Semantic Web

18:13:16 [Jeremy]

david: we should be defining scope

18:13:18 [Jeremy]

of SW

18:14:13 [Jeremy]

but this is probably a CG issue not a TF issue

18:14:49 [Jeremy]

eric would like TM to be in SW, WG perhaps not so keen

18:15:02 [Ralph]

[I think David's "we" referred generally to W3C or the community, not specifically SWBPD]

18:15:08 [Jeremy]

in practice dealing mostly with RDF and OWL

18:15:19 [Jeremy]

ok

18:15:39 [Jeremy]

3.8 RDFTM (Steve)

18:15:47 [Jeremy]

(too soon)

18:16:43 [Jeremy]

david: can we link to lots of RDF data

18:16:54 [Jeremy]

ralph: let's not go there

18:18:21 [Jeremy]

ralph: if there is cool data out there, hopefully it is found from cool application on our page

18:18:23 [ChrisW]

q+

18:18:50 [ChrisW]

to mentionhttp://swoogle.umbc.edu/

18:18:54 [Jeremy]

Libby: Bob de charm is collecting data as david discusses

18:18:57 [ChrisW]

http://swoogle.umbc.edu/

18:19:03 [DavidW]

ack ChrisW

18:19:05 [libby]

http://www.rdfdata.org/

18:19:09 [libby]

is bob's stuff

18:19:36 [Jeremy]

also ontaria

18:19:40 [Jeremy]

(david)

18:20:20 [Jeremy]

ontaria currently down

18:20:34 [DavidW]

http://www.w3.org/2004/ontaria/

18:21:06 [Jeremy]

ontaria cobranded W3c/darpa

18:21:23 [Jeremy]

3.8 RDFTM (Steve)

18:21:37 [Jeremy]

pepper's item is complete

18:21:52 [Jeremy]

current status was published on March 29

18:22:19 [Jeremy]

3.9 Tutorial Page

18:22:26 [ChrisW]

q+ to give ralph more work

18:22:34 [Jeremy]

jeff and Ben absent, but write access sorted out now

18:22:37 [DavidW]

ack ChrisW

18:22:37 [Zakim]

ChrisW, you wanted to give ralph more work

18:23:06 [Ralph]

ACTION: Ralph add Note category to WG home page

18:23:15 [Jeremy]

adjourned

18:23:17 [aliman]

zakim, unmute alistair

18:23:17 [Zakim]

Alistair_Miles should no longer be muted

18:23:34 [Zakim]

-Evan_Wallace

18:23:35 [Zakim]

-Chris_Welty

18:23:36 [Zakim]

-David_Wood

18:23:37 [Zakim]

-Libby_Miller

18:23:39 [Zakim]

-Gavin_McKenzie

18:23:40 [Zakim]

-Alistair_Miles

18:23:43 [libby]

bye all

18:23:47 [Zakim]

-Ralph

18:23:57 [Zakim]

-Fabien

18:25:41 [Zakim]

-Jeremy

18:25:42 [Zakim]

SW_BPD()1:00PM has ended

18:25:44 [Zakim]

Attendees were David_Wood, Alistair_Miles, Ralph, Jeremy, [Sophia], Fabien, Elisa_Kendall, Phil_Tetlow, Gavin_McKenzie, Libby_Miller, Chris_Welty, DebM, Evan_Wallace,

18:25:46 [Zakim]

... +44.774.0.aaaa

18:31:03 [Ralph]

zakim, bye

18:31:03 [Zakim]

Zakim has left #swbp

18:31:10 [Ralph]

rrsagent, bye

18:31:10 [RRSAgent]

I see 7 open action items:

18:31:10 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: Guus to organise straw poll on f2f location [1]

18:31:10 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/04/21-swbp-irc#T17-10-10

18:31:10 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: Ralph investigate what action may be taken when an interested [2]

18:31:10 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/04/21-swbp-irc#T17-10-23-2

18:31:10 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: jeremy post personal review to XSCD doc [3]

18:31:10 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/04/21-swbp-irc#T17-20-34

18:31:10 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: Ralph re-ping ISI AC Rep [4]

18:31:10 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/04/21-swbp-irc#T17-55-58

18:31:10 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: Ralph get XML Schema Datatype transition request unstuck [5]

18:31:10 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/04/21-swbp-irc#T18-01-35

18:31:10 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: jeremy polite reply to ashok setting expectations [6]

18:31:10 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/04/21-swbp-irc#T18-02-46

18:31:10 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: Ralph add Note category to WG home page [7]

18:31:10 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/04/21-swbp-irc#T18-23-06