13:52:42 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #wai-wcag
13:52:42 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2005/04/13-wai-wcag-irc
13:52:55 <ben> RRSAgent, make log world
13:53:39 <ben> Topic: 13 April 2005 WCAG Techniques Task Force 
13:53:49 <ben> Chair: Wendy
13:54:32 <ben> agenda + Look at example use of link to mark navigation objects. Discuss proposed technique for feedback to UAWG and PFWG
13:54:42 <ben> agenda + Test files review, #75, 76, 77, 78¸ 79, 27, 128, 129, 183 
13:54:50 <ben> agenda + Examples of Baseline information in HTML Techniques 
13:55:00 <ben> agenda + User Agent matrix 
13:57:46 <ChrisR> ChrisR has joined #wai-wcag
13:57:52 <Yvette_Hoitink> Hi Chris
13:58:35 <Yvette_Hoitink> Ben, could you send me a message if you take up agenda item 4? My IRC client should beep then
13:58:37 <ChrisR> Hi yevtte
13:59:27 <wendy> wendy has joined #wai-wcag
13:59:46 <Yvette_Hoitink> Hi Wendy
13:59:49 <wendy> agenda?
14:00:09 <wendy> excellent! thanks ben!
14:00:21 <Zakim> WAI_WCAG(techniques)10:00AM has now started
14:00:28 <Zakim> +??P18
14:00:29 <Zakim> +John_Slatin
14:00:45 <Zakim> +Wendy
14:00:47 <ben> zakim, ??P18 is Ben
14:00:47 <Zakim> +Ben; got it
14:00:54 <Zakim> +Dave_MacDonald
14:01:01 <Becky_Gibson> Becky_Gibson has joined #wai-wcag
14:01:32 <Zakim> +Christophe_Strobe
14:01:35 <Zakim> +Becky_Gibson
14:01:46 <David_> David_ has joined #wai-wcag
14:02:09 <David_> test
14:02:27 <wendy> zakim, who's here?
14:02:27 <Zakim> On the phone I see Ben, John_Slatin, Wendy, Dave_MacDonald, Christophe_Strobe, Becky_Gibson
14:02:29 <Zakim> On IRC I see David_, Becky_Gibson, wendy, ChrisR, RRSAgent, Zakim, ben, Yvette_Hoitink
14:02:43 <David_> scribe: David
14:02:55 <wendy> scribe: David_
14:02:56 <Zakim> + +53477aaaa
14:03:02 <Zakim> + +53477aabb
14:03:15 <wendy> zakim, +53477aaaa may be Yvette
14:03:16 <Zakim> +Yvette?; got it
14:03:21 <David_> zakim, David_ is David
14:03:22 <Zakim> sorry, David_, I do not recognize a party named 'David_'
14:03:26 <wendy> zakim, +53477aabb may be Chris
14:03:30 <Zakim> +Chris?; got it
14:04:02 <Zakim> +Tim_Boland
14:04:20 <Yvette_Hoitink> zakim, mute me
14:04:20 <Zakim> sorry, Yvette_Hoitink, I do not see a party named 'Yvette_Hoitink'
14:04:30 <Yvette_Hoitink> zakim, Yvette is Yvette_Hoitink
14:04:30 <Zakim> +Yvette_Hoitink; got it
14:04:51 <wendy> zakim, who's muted?
14:04:51 <Zakim> I see Chris? muted
14:05:05 <wendy> zakim, Chris is Yvette-real
14:05:05 <Zakim> +Yvette-real; got it
14:05:10 <wendy> zakim, Yvette is Chris
14:05:10 <Zakim> sorry, wendy, I do not recognize a party named 'Yvette'
14:05:19 <wendy> zakim, who's on the phone?
14:05:19 <Zakim> On the phone I see Ben, John_Slatin, Wendy, Dave_MacDonald, Christophe_Strobe, Becky_Gibson, Yvette-real, Yvette_Hoitink, Tim_Boland
14:05:19 <Yvette_Hoitink> zakim, who's on the phone?
14:05:21 <Zakim> On the phone I see Ben, John_Slatin, Wendy, Dave_MacDonald, Christophe_Strobe, Becky_Gibson, Yvette-real, Yvette_Hoitink, Tim_Boland
14:05:26 <wendy> zakim, Yvette_Hoitink is Chris
14:05:26 <Zakim> +Chris; got it
14:05:27 <Yvette_Hoitink> zakim, I am Yvette-real
14:05:27 <Zakim> ok, Yvette_Hoitink, I now associate you with Yvette-real
14:05:34 <ben> zakim, I am Ben
14:05:34 <Zakim> ok, ben, I now associate you with Ben
14:05:37 <Yvette_Hoitink> zakim, mute me
14:05:37 <Zakim> Yvette-real should now be muted
14:05:46 <wendy> zakim, who's muted?
14:05:46 <Zakim> I see Yvette-real muted
14:05:46 <Yvette_Hoitink> zakim, unmute me
14:05:47 <Zakim> Yvette-real should no longer be muted
14:06:02 <ben> agenda?
14:06:05 <wendy> zakim, take up item 1
14:06:08 <Yvette_Hoitink> zakim, Yvette-real is Yvette_Hoitink
14:06:12 <ben> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2005AprJun/0006.html
14:06:13 <Zakim> agendum 1. "Look at example use of link to mark navigation objects. Discuss proposed technique for feedback to UAWG and PFWG" taken up [from ben]
14:06:16 <Zakim> +Yvette_Hoitink; got it
14:06:18 <Yvette_Hoitink> zakim, mute me
14:06:18 <Zakim> Yvette_Hoitink should now be muted
14:06:42 <wendy> http://cita.rehab.uiuc.edu/presentations/2005-03-css-tutorial/example/career-redesign-links.html
14:06:52 <David_> wc: look at "link" item want out feedback to PFWG
14:07:53 <David_> wc: source code link "rel" UA can identify that and skip blocks
14:08:10 <Tim> Tim has joined #wai-wcag
14:08:31 <David_> cwc: creating a firefox extension to implement and demo it, would replace skip links that we use now
14:08:40 <David_> cwc=wc
14:09:21 <David_> BG: I'm confused, won't work til UA get on it
14:09:51 <David_> bg: will show peices of doc but won't take you there
14:10:16 <David_> bg: need # sign
14:11:05 <David_> js: it's looking for a file not a bookmark (witihout the #)
14:11:25 <David_> wc: think there is an error in there code
14:12:51 <David_> js: implementing in 4.01 and XHTML 2.0 backward, 
14:13:19 <David_> wc: UA wg driving it cause they want oto know what to tell UA to do
14:13:53 <David_> js: might be "future" and "repair" will be easy in Xhtml2 but tricky in HTML1
14:14:04 <David_> bg: right now it only works in Moz or opera..
14:14:21 <David_> js: and moz and opera don't have screen reader support yet
14:14:58 <David_> js: don't understand Mozilla, support if firefox puts text to speech
14:15:16 <David_> bg: Mozilla will die, everybody should switchto firefox.
14:15:52 <David_> wc: main question, what do we think of the technique, are there issue
14:16:02 <David_> tb: UA issues
14:16:25 <Yvette_Hoitink> q+
14:16:30 <David_> wc: but apart from that, do we support UAWG in there efforts to push this on UA
14:16:34 <Yvette_Hoitink> zakim, unmute me
14:16:34 <Zakim> Yvette_Hoitink should no longer be muted
14:16:35 <Becky_Gibson> example that works in Mozilla: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/w3c-wai-pf/2005AprJun/0019.html
14:16:39 <Becky_Gibson> this is in member space
14:17:02 <David_> js: wondering about Screen readers, how will it work
14:17:35 <David_> bg: put this tecniuqe , these links, each UA will have its way to get to main content
14:18:20 <ben> q+
14:18:32 <David_> js: is here any impact on the wa a screen reaeder would behave in "say all" mode will it be convenient 
14:18:47 <David_> bg: don't know if that has been thought through
14:18:57 <David_> js: it needs to be thought through
14:19:07 <wendy> ack yvette
14:19:08 <David_> tb: nervous how it will test
14:19:35 <David_> yh: no side affects from using it. won't break code if UA don't support it.
14:19:48 <wendy> ack ben
14:20:08 <Yvette_Hoitink> zakim, mute me
14:20:08 <Zakim> Yvette_Hoitink should now be muted
14:20:16 <David_> bc: point out, interesting technique. create a standard outside of the spec..what are the implications of that
14:20:38 <David_> what motivations are there for browsers
14:20:43 <David_> q+
14:20:52 <wendy> ack john
14:21:26 <David_> js: this stuff is in spec for xhtml 2.0, the idea is to try to make it available to older versions of html
14:21:49 <David_> js: can present it as future or optional but not for now
14:21:51 <wendy> ack david
14:23:08 <David_> dm: might mean that usable current techniques won't be used even though this is not supported yet so it will mean that sit emay remain inaccessible
14:23:46 <David_> js: what is the expected for a result for a sreen reader in say all mode, will it affect the way a SR reads a page
14:23:47 <Zakim> +[Microsoft]
14:23:59 <ben> zakim, [Microsoft] is Jenae
14:23:59 <Zakim> +Jenae; got it
14:24:23 <David_> js: take it to CG
14:24:31 <wendy> action: wendy take summary of concers to CG
14:24:47 <wendy> zakim, close this item
14:24:47 <Zakim> agendum 1 closed
14:24:48 <Zakim> I see 3 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
14:24:49 <Zakim> 2. Test files review, #75, 76, 77, 78¸ 79, 27, 128, 129, 183  [from ben]
14:24:51 <wendy> zakim, take up item 2
14:24:51 <Zakim> agendum 2. "Test files review, #75, 76, 77, 78¸ 79, 27, 128, 129, 183 " taken up [from ben]
14:24:55 <ben> david's summary: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-gl/2005AprJun/0117.html
14:25:10 <wendy> scribe: Becky_Gibson
14:25:15 <Becky_Gibson> scribe Becky:
14:25:45 <wendy> ack john
14:25:48 <ChrisR> q+
14:26:10 <Becky_Gibson> js: important to use same terminology in tests and techs and guidlelines
14:26:53 <Becky_Gibson> js: term text equiv is still being used should be text alternative
14:27:23 <Becky_Gibson> js: also statements must be testable:  X is Y rather than X must be Y
14:27:37 <Becky_Gibson> ja: will be checking test files for consistency with wording
14:27:56 <Becky_Gibson> wc: looks like David's questions were about the test files
14:28:10 <Becky_Gibson> dm: Chris indicates that I should make suggestions form correcting them
14:28:23 <Becky_Gibson> tb: also found Chris's post helpful about procedure
14:28:32 <wendy> zakim, who's making noise?
14:28:48 <Zakim> wendy, listening for 11 seconds I heard sound from the following: 10 (8%), John_Slatin (34%), Dave_MacDonald (46%), Christophe_Strobe (8%), Becky_Gibson (62%)
14:29:49 <Becky_Gibson> dm: questions about test files being WCAG compliant in all respects except for error we are trying to identify
14:30:11 <Becky_Gibson> dm: isn't there a way we can make the test files compliant except for the specific error? looking for feedback from group
14:30:48 <Becky_Gibson> dm: tests seem they are written for machine test rather than human testing
14:31:09 <Becky_Gibson> dm: for example, some tests leave out the object tag in order to pass
14:31:20 <Becky_Gibson> js:  didn't understand that from David's post
14:32:01 <wendy> http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/WCAG20/tests/testfiles/75-2.html
14:32:03 <ben> example: http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/WCAG20/tests/test75.html
14:32:18 <Becky_Gibson> bg:  there are a few tests that require the page to be usable with object removed
14:32:31 <ben> (test file 75-2)
14:32:37 <Becky_Gibson> bg: pass test just removes the object tag - but there is no way for a machine to determine if the page is still usable
14:32:51 <Becky_Gibson> dm: agree
14:32:59 <Becky_Gibson> js: so how can we fix?
14:33:17 <ChrisR> q+
14:33:51 <Becky_Gibson> dm: another example is object must be keyboard operable.  the pass test just leaves the object tag out
14:34:00 <Becky_Gibson> dm: that doesn't really test for keyboard operable
14:34:08 <ben> q+
14:34:18 <Becky_Gibson> wc: so want to make sure test contains valid example and requires human testing
14:34:43 <Becky_Gibson> dm:  can we do that - require human testing? this is why we are different from other WCAG groups
14:34:43 <wendy> ack chris
14:35:06 <Becky_Gibson> cr: agree with David - need to make human's part of the process;  need to improve the test files to make more realistic
14:35:29 <Becky_Gibson> cr: example where the test file is not finished - encourage people to find good examples
14:35:36 <Becky_Gibson> dm: yes, we all need to help with the writing
14:35:52 <Becky_Gibson> wc: action item for Chris and David to develop the test files for object?
14:35:55 <wendy> action: david and chris develop test files for tests in this set
14:36:26 <Becky_Gibson> dm: yes but have to agree that we have test files where just looking at the good can't guarantee a pass
14:36:33 <wendy> ack ben
14:36:38 <Becky_Gibson> cr: need a good test that a person can look at and understand
14:37:07 <Becky_Gibson> bc: test that removes element in question is a test file that illustrates when the test doesn't apply rather than a test file that passes the test
14:37:40 <Becky_Gibson> wc: does anyone disagree that test files should be usable in sense that they illustrate what we are testing for
14:37:57 <Becky_Gibson> wc: no one is disagreeing with David - issue is that the test file isn't finished
14:38:31 <Becky_Gibson> wc: Chris can you make the changes John suggested to the test files
14:38:37 <Becky_Gibson> cr: yes will do some editing
14:38:46 <Becky_Gibson> js: can you work with Jenae?
14:39:05 <Becky_Gibson> ja: is actually looking at the approved tests to double check
14:39:10 <Becky_Gibson> cr: willing to share :-)
14:39:13 <wendy> action: chris edit these test cases (75, 76, 77, 78¸ 79, 27, 128, 129, 183) based on language feedback from john
14:39:49 <ben> q+
14:39:54 <Becky_Gibson> dm: does group agree that it is possible to make WCAG compliant tests or will it bloat or confuse the tests?
14:40:01 <ChrisR> q+
14:40:11 <wendy> ack ben
14:40:40 <Becky_Gibson> bc: concerned that it will bloat the test and make too much work and harder to user to figure out what test is trying to accomplish
14:40:44 <Becky_Gibson> q+
14:40:47 <wendy> ack chris
14:40:57 <Becky_Gibson> cr: not sure what WCAG 2.0 compliant means yet :-)
14:41:34 <wendy> ack becky
14:41:52 <wendy> bg: e.g., lang
14:42:16 <Becky_Gibson> bg: offer html with lang attribute as an example where it starts to make code larger
14:42:33 <Becky_Gibson> wc: what about video test - should it include video
14:42:36 <wendy> ack john
14:42:44 <Becky_Gibson> js: yes and shouldn't be too hard to find
14:42:45 <Becky_Gibson> js:
14:42:59 <Becky_Gibson> js: issue with finding text alt for the object element
14:43:29 <Becky_Gibson> js: example am hard of hearing and have various media players installed; if have stand alone audio file inside object element
14:43:57 <Becky_Gibson> js: one tech says include transcript in body of object element - how would a user ever find that alternative
14:44:05 <Becky_Gibson> js: when the technology is installed?
14:44:40 <wendy> bg: trying to work that w/screen reader developers. want a way to access text in the object tag when the tech is enabled.
14:44:57 <wendy> bg: currently, HPR offers the content. all will show you the title. 
14:45:08 <Becky_Gibson> js: is there a way to provide text alt. explicitly associated with the object
14:45:08 <wendy> bg: if have an object that is not accessible, could get to alternative.
14:45:53 <Becky_Gibson> js: doesn't solve hearing impaired issue since not using AT
14:46:04 <Becky_Gibson> bg: recommend putting title attribute
14:46:13 <Becky_Gibson> js: but can't put an entire transcript in title
14:46:33 <Becky_Gibson> wc: this has already been raised an an issue for GL 1.1
14:46:56 <Becky_Gibson> wc: could that prevent us from accepting these test if we don't have a technique to solve this issue
14:47:11 <Becky_Gibson> bc: have been recommending this since 1.0 but still isnt' supported in UA
14:47:37 <Becky_Gibson> bc: so do we change what we are recommending because UA haven't moved forward or do we put more pressure on UA?
14:47:50 <Becky_Gibson> wc: need more work on the technique
14:47:56 <Becky_Gibson> js: talk to UAAG and PF
14:48:36 <wendy> action: john raise issue w/object support with UAWG and PFWG via CG
14:49:12 <Becky_Gibson> wc: helpful for Michael, Chris and David to develop technique proposal and test files all at once
14:49:46 <Becky_Gibson> js: since there are possible implications to GL 1.1 as well - can Wendy and Ben be added to that action as well
14:50:02 <Becky_Gibson> wc: Chis and David accept that change to previous action
14:50:12 <Becky_Gibson> wc: David, can you be lead?
14:50:25 <Becky_Gibson> dm: ok, but no conference space
14:50:40 <Becky_Gibson> wc: can create conf space if necessary
14:51:23 <Becky_Gibson> js: just want to make sure GL 1.1 still works and there are techs and test for implementingit
14:51:32 <wendy> action 2 = david, michael, wendy, and chris coordinate on changes to object techniques and test files (develop together to synchronized. wendy there to help with guideline 1.1 issues - explicitly associated defn)
14:51:42 <Becky_Gibson> bc: explicitly associated is the "sticking" point
14:52:15 <Becky_Gibson> dm: 2 other things about object element to discuss
14:52:26 <Becky_Gibson> wc: will they addressed by action or are they philisophical
14:52:54 <Becky_Gibson> dm: just make sure not to have obvious WCAG errors in the test files that may confuse the authors
14:53:16 <Becky_Gibson> dm: try to keep test files as compliant as possible; other issue is issue with embed
14:53:29 <Becky_Gibson> wc: assuming something about support for embed?  
14:53:50 <Becky_Gibson> dm: yes using embed is a bit of a hack - should it be a repair technique
14:54:20 <Becky_Gibson> wc: in prev. discussions we felt okay dealing with embed; there are DTDs that you can validate against that have embed
14:54:41 <Becky_Gibson> wc: think this will be covered by action item
14:54:43 <wendy> zakim, close this item
14:54:43 <Zakim> agendum 2 closed
14:54:44 <Zakim> I see 2 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
14:54:45 <Zakim> 3. Examples of Baseline information in HTML Techniques  [from ben]
14:54:57 <David_> dm: thanks becky
14:55:05 <David_> scribe: David
14:55:22 <ben> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-gl/2005AprJun/0114.html
14:55:22 <ben> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-gl/2005AprJun/0115.html>
14:55:25 <wendy> zakim, take up item 3
14:55:25 <Zakim> agendum 3. "Examples of Baseline information in HTML Techniques " taken up [from ben]
14:56:17 <Tim> need to sign off now - sorry swamped at work today
14:56:19 <Tim> Tim has left #wai-wcag
14:56:41 <Zakim> -Tim_Boland
14:57:32 <David_> bg: I was trying to CSS = 5.11 when to use this technique...how could I use this technique...found it hard to araphrase  when to use this...you assume CSS is present, might want to use <b> <i> if you expect your audience has not css then back to 3.2 etc
14:57:46 <David_> don't wnat to say use <font>
14:58:31 <wendy> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-gl/2005AprJun/0119.html
14:58:54 <wendy> dmd: looked through techniques to see how effected by baseline.
14:59:23 <wendy> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-gl/2005AprJun/0120.html
15:00:07 <wendy> q?
15:01:03 <Yvette_Hoitink> q+
15:01:12 <Yvette_Hoitink> zakim, mute me
15:01:12 <Zakim> Yvette_Hoitink was already muted, Yvette_Hoitink
15:01:25 <Yvette_Hoitink> zakim, unmute me
15:01:25 <Zakim> Yvette_Hoitink should no longer be muted
15:01:35 <wendy> q+ to ask "i18n - http://www.w3.org/International/geo/html-tech/outline/#ri20030510.102829377"
15:01:46 <wendy> dmd: in browser world, eveything is free, right?
15:02:05 <wendy> ack john
15:02:26 <wendy> david? are you still minuting?
15:02:31 <David_> syup
15:02:38 <wendy> thx
15:02:52 <David_> js: chaper for each baseline
15:03:09 <David_> instead of sorting it out at the technique level
15:03:39 <David_> "if you have chosen this baseline here are your techniques"..."if ...
15:03:51 <wendy> ack yvette
15:05:00 <David_> yh: how can you test ofr browsers. ??? wel we use VM ware that makes us test all ie.5.5, 5.0, etc on different virtual machines
15:05:18 <wendy> http://webmonkey.wired.com/webmonkey/reference/browser_chart/ although doesn't have assistive technologies
15:05:26 <wendy> ack wendy
15:05:26 <Zakim> wendy, you wanted to ask "i18n - http://www.w3.org/International/geo/html-tech/outline/#ri20030510.102829377"
15:05:39 <Yvette_Hoitink> zakim, mute me
15:05:40 <Zakim> Yvette_Hoitink should now be muted
15:05:55 <David_> wc:1)  what do authors need 2) what resources do we have
15:06:24 <David_> wc: richard said, "i don't want to get sold on a technique then find out if it won't work in a browser
15:07:29 <David_> wc: understand user support...lots of data out there for elements in browsers, what will we include....there is tons of data out there, we just need to focus on AT
15:07:55 <wendy> ack john
15:07:57 <David_> wc: internationaliaation is providing tons of info and less peoople than us
15:08:39 <David_> js: I like saying something up front to let peoeple make good selecitons...whether chapter idea I had or wendy's idea 
15:09:04 <David_> js: must have feature support going back several browsers
15:09:54 <David_> wc: depends on how they  would let us use there infor...they don[t dea with baselines. which is similar to the direction we are headed
15:10:28 <David_> bc: what do they do when something works in ie 5 and not 6 what happens i there support chart...
15:10:54 <David_> wc: our chart could get very difficulty
15:11:06 <wendy> s/difficulty/complex quickly
15:11:15 <David_> js: then you get into video card etc.... 
15:12:33 <ben> http://www.w3.org/International/geo/html-tech/tech-lang.html#ri20040429.113217290
15:12:36 <David_> wc: we need ot focus on intended default behaviour is complex enough
15:13:06 <David_> bc: internationalization have a simple matrix and a complex one
15:13:59 <David_> js: language easier than our problems
15:14:19 <David_> int'nation is providing very cool layouts etc
15:14:55 <David_> js: we should be able to grow steadily like them
15:15:50 <David_> wc: maybe if we just focus on the scripting techniques...rather than all techniques
15:16:16 <David_> bc: yeah we could document the important areas like screen magnification , screen readers etc.
15:17:18 <David_> wc: any action items in progress for scriting?
15:17:38 <David_> bg: yup, mc and I 
15:18:41 <David_> wc: feels we need scripting baseline stuff, develop those techniques cbecomeing imortant. try a table, what browser support is out there....etc.
15:19:55 <David_> bg: I say 3 catagories, 1) script turned off 2) script can help accessibility 3) if writing scripts here's how to write it accessibly
15:21:30 <David_> wc: scripting , j- script, javascript, etc.. dosn't feel that we have the same broad catagories in scripting as HTML, CSS,
15:22:31 <David_> js: 1st decision an author will have to make is scripting, matter of the order we present things in a decision tree.
15:24:07 <David_> bc: different consequences to baseline support, buch of elements in 3.2 , is it worth documenting that 
15:24:26 <David_> dm: even poor countries have 3.7
15:24:47 <David_> wc: is there action item or resoltion
15:24:48 <Yvette_Hoitink> q+
15:24:52 <Yvette_Hoitink> zakim, unmute
15:24:52 <Zakim> I don't understand 'unmute', Yvette_Hoitink
15:24:53 <wendy> ack yvette
15:25:20 <David_> yh: wondering if planning "out of the box features ofwindows"
15:26:32 <David_> yh: people slightly short sighted might use windows magnifier and not know about majic etc
15:27:19 <David_> yh: see if our techniques work with windows accessibility features...
15:27:34 <David_> bc: can't see where our techniques are in conflict,,
15:27:53 <wendy> heard: proposal for "chapters,"  different issues for baseline for scripting than html/css (although some overlap. although "property/element support" is one aspect and "scripting off/on" another), i18n approach of matrix, focus just on testing asst tech and harvest browser support info from external resources, get info from asst tech developers
15:28:29 <David_> js: narrator...MS is explicit that its not a serious screen reader. deliberately limited...anti trust issues
15:28:43 <Yvette_Hoitink> zakim, mute me
15:28:43 <Zakim> Yvette_Hoitink should now be muted
15:29:32 <David_> wc: john had a proposal for chapers, different issues for baseline, int'l approch their matrix, harvesting external ideas
15:30:24 <wendy> action: john contact asst tech developers to discover what info they provide about support
15:30:55 <wendy> action: john write one paragraph summary about "chapters" idea for techniques
15:31:02 <wendy> q?
15:31:16 <wendy> action: jenae send john contact info
15:31:26 <wendy> zakim, close this item
15:31:26 <Zakim> agendum 3 closed
15:31:27 <Zakim> I see 1 item remaining on the agenda:
15:31:29 <Zakim> 4. User Agent matrix  [from ben]
15:32:07 <David_> wc: left over wquestions, safari, jaws unicode supprots, and support of other languages
15:32:21 <wendy> zakim, take up item 4
15:32:21 <Zakim> agendum 4. "User Agent matrix " taken up [from ben]
15:34:10 <David_> js: let's get preliminary info on safari it will become a more realistic option that blind users on a MAC...web developers who are MAC based. can do accessibility testingin the platform
15:35:05 <David_> wc: a lot of this info available already
15:36:00 <David_> js: zoomtext reads aloud and does kareoke style reading as they go along
15:37:05 <David_> bc: jaws support for reading style sheets...provide a way to disable style sheets using !import feature
15:37:40 <David_> interesting implicaiton...if SR read stylesheets it willa ffect us....ie "show/hide"
15:38:37 <David_> wc: what aciton item do you recommend
15:38:44 <David_> js: create the matrix
15:38:45 <wendy> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-gl/2004JanMar/att-0667/draft_test_matrix_v2.html
15:39:19 <David_> ja: matrix exists do we just need to update it
15:39:47 <David_> js: yes it needs to be updated, how far back does it go
15:39:56 <David_> ja: I 'll update it
15:39:59 <wendy> action: jenae finish update of matrix
15:40:30 <David_> wc: let's adjurn
15:42:24 <Yvette_Hoitink> zakim, unmute
15:42:24 <Zakim> I don't understand 'unmute', Yvette_Hoitink
15:42:28 <Zakim> -Becky_Gibson
15:42:30 <Zakim> -Jenae
15:42:30 <Zakim> -Dave_MacDonald
15:42:32 <Zakim> -Ben
15:42:33 <Zakim> -Yvette_Hoitink
15:42:35 <Zakim> -Christophe_Strobe
15:42:40 <wendy> zakim, who's on the phone?
15:42:40 <Zakim> On the phone I see John_Slatin, Wendy, Chris
15:42:49 <wendy> zakim, drop Chris
15:42:49 <Zakim> Chris is being disconnected
15:42:50 <Zakim> -Chris
15:43:23 <ben> RRSAgent, draft minutes
15:43:23 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2005/04/13-wai-wcag-minutes.html ben
15:48:15 <ben> Present: Becky_Gibson Chris_Ridpath Christophe_Strobe Dave_MacDonald Jenae John_Slatin Tim_Boland Yvette_Hoitink Wendy_Chisholm Ben_Caldwell
15:48:35 <ben> Meeting: Weekly WCAG Techniques Task Force Call
15:48:50 <ben> RRSAgent, generate minutes
15:48:50 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2005/04/13-wai-wcag-minutes.html ben
15:49:02 <Yvette_Hoitink> Yvette_Hoitink has left #wai-wcag
15:55:21 <Zakim> -John_Slatin
15:55:27 <Zakim> -Wendy
15:55:28 <Zakim> WAI_WCAG(techniques)10:00AM has ended
15:55:29 <Zakim> Attendees were John_Slatin, Wendy, Ben, Dave_MacDonald, Christophe_Strobe, Becky_Gibson, Yvette?, Chris?, Tim_Boland, Chris, Yvette_Hoitink, Jenae
16:15:41 <RylaDog> RylaDog has joined #wai-wcag
16:15:48 <RylaDog> RylaDog has left #wai-wcag
16:40:43 <wendy> zakim, bye
16:40:43 <Zakim> Zakim has left #wai-wcag
16:41:20 <wendy> RRSAgent, bye
16:41:20 <RRSAgent> I see 8 open action items:
16:41:20 <RRSAgent> ACTION: wendy take summary of concers to CG [1]
16:41:20 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/04/13-wai-wcag-irc#T14-24-31
16:41:20 <RRSAgent> ACTION: david, michael, wendy, and chris coordinate on changes to object techniques and test files (develop together to synchronized. wendy there to help with guideline 1.1 issues - explicitly associated defn) [2]
16:41:20 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/04/13-wai-wcag-irc#T14-35-55
16:41:20 <RRSAgent> ACTION: chris edit these test cases (75, 76, 77, 78¸ 79, 27, 128, 129, 183) based on language feedback from john [3]
16:41:20 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/04/13-wai-wcag-irc#T14-39-13
16:41:20 <RRSAgent> ACTION: john raise issue w/object support with UAWG and PFWG via CG [4]
16:41:20 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/04/13-wai-wcag-irc#T14-48-36
16:41:20 <RRSAgent> ACTION: john contact asst tech developers to discover what info they provide about support [5]
16:41:20 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/04/13-wai-wcag-irc#T15-30-24
16:41:20 <RRSAgent> ACTION: john write one paragraph summary about "chapters" idea for techniques [6]
16:41:20 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/04/13-wai-wcag-irc#T15-30-55
16:41:20 <RRSAgent> ACTION: jenae send john contact info [7]
16:41:20 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/04/13-wai-wcag-irc#T15-31-16
16:41:20 <RRSAgent> ACTION: jenae finish update of matrix [8]
16:41:20 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/04/13-wai-wcag-irc#T15-39-59