IRC log of dawg on 2005-03-15

Timestamps are in UTC.

14:33:47 [RRSAgent]

RRSAgent has joined #dawg

14:33:47 [RRSAgent]

logging to http://www.w3.org/2005/03/15-dawg-irc

14:33:51 [kendall]

zakim, mute me

14:33:51 [Zakim]

sorry, kendall, I don't know what conference this is

14:33:57 [kendall]

zakim, mute me

14:33:57 [Zakim]

Kendall_Clark should now be muted

14:34:03 [Zakim]

+DanC

14:34:04 [AndyS]

zakim, who is on the phone?

14:34:04 [Zakim]

On the phone I see ??P0, Kevin, HowardK, Kendall_Clark (muted), DanC (muted)

14:34:05 [DanC]

agenda?

14:34:19 [AndyS]

zakim, ??P0 is AndyS

14:34:19 [Zakim]

+AndyS; got it

14:34:38 [kendall]

AndyS: do you have a minute for me after the telcon? I'm confused about when we get "group pattern" blocks...?

14:34:41 [DanC]

Zakim, who's on the phone?

14:34:41 [Zakim]

On the phone I see AndyS, Kevin, HowardK, Kendall_Clark (muted), DanC

14:35:04 [DanC]

agenda + Convene, take roll, review records and agenda http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2005JanMar/0304.html

14:35:12 [DanC]

agenda + SPARQL Protocol, SADDLE update

14:35:12 [kendall]

zakim, unmute me

14:35:14 [Zakim]

Kendall_Clark should no longer be muted

14:35:20 [DanC]

agenda + test updates from punctuationSyntax

14:35:22 [JanneS]

i'm figuring our the code for the bridge..

14:35:28 [DanC]

agenda + Test suite maintenance

14:35:36 [DanC]

agenda + Sorting issue/requirement?

14:35:39 [DanC]

Zakim, passcode?

14:35:39 [Zakim]

the conference code is 7333 (tel:+1.617.761.6200), DanC

14:35:46 [DanC]

agenda + Privacy/Security issue/requirement/objective?

14:35:50 [Zakim]

+EricP

14:35:59 [DanC]

take up agendum 1

14:36:06 [DanC]

Zakim, pick a scribe

14:36:06 [Zakim]

Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose Kevin

14:36:15 [JanneS]

hmm, skype doesn't pass the tones for those numbers correctly through it appears..

14:36:22 [Zakim]

+Holbrook|Gibbins

14:36:26 [Zakim]

+??P4

14:36:35 [JanneS]

Zakim, P4 is JanneS

14:36:35 [Zakim]

sorry, JanneS, I do not recognize a party named 'P4'

14:36:37 [SteveH]

Zakim, HolbrookGibbins is SteveH

14:36:37 [Zakim]

+SteveH; got it

14:36:46 [DanC]

Zakim, who is on the phone?

14:36:46 [Zakim]

On the phone I see AndyS, Kevin, HowardK, Kendall_Clark, DanC, EricP, SteveH, JanneS

14:36:51 [DanC]

Regrets: DaveB

14:37:37 [DanC]

Minutes of 2005-03-08 Telecon for review

14:37:37 [DanC]

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2005JanMar/0287.html

14:37:45 [DanC]

RESOLVED to approve

14:37:51 [AndyS]

Regrets: Hiroyuki

14:38:19 [DanC]

next meeting: 2005-03-22 JanneS to scribe

14:38:37 [DanC]

ACTION Bijan: to propose text (story? etc.) to support WSDL requirement

14:38:37 [DanC]

ACTION EricP: to review WSDL text proposal

14:38:37 [DanC]

ACTION AndyS: to clarify 5.4 w/r/t closed world assumption

14:38:51 [DanC]

ACTION AndyS: to explain how to get a whole graph with CONSTRUCT * and GRAPH.

14:38:51 [DanC]

ACTION DaveB: to consider use of xsi:dataType ala comment from Steer

14:39:00 [DanC]

ACTION EricP: to propose to close valueTesting (bonus points for test cases, to EricP or others)

14:39:26 [DanC]

PROPOSED: to approve

14:39:26 [DanC]

http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/ftf5-bos.html

14:39:26 [DanC]

$Revision: 1.48 $ of $Date: 2005/03/07 22:37:39 $

14:39:26 [DanC]

with the @@s removed.

14:39:45 [DanC]

so RESOLVED

14:39:55 [DanC]

Zakim, next agendum

14:39:55 [Zakim]

agendum 2. "SPARQL Protocol, SADDLE update" taken up [from DanC]

14:40:35 [DanC]

http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/proto-wd/ $Revision: 1.19 $ of $Date: 2005/03/10 20:36:26 $

14:42:38 [DanC]

DONE: ACTION KendallC: to incorporate service description discussion notes in protocol spec

14:42:48 [KevinW]

kendall reports protocol draft being updated, including changes for wsdl2. change log at bottom.

14:42:51 [DanC]

ACTION KendallC: discuss warnings in the protocol spec.

14:42:51 [DanC]

ACTION KendallC: to add WSDL description of protocol to editor's draft, propose to WG

14:42:57 [DanC]

ACTION KendallC: to add "since we're using WSDL, you can use WS-Policy..." to protocol draft

14:43:26 [JosD]

JosD has joined #dawg

14:43:37 [RRSAgent]

See http://www.w3.org/2005/03/15-dawg-irc#T14-43-26

14:43:39 [Zakim]

+JosD

14:44:43 [DanC]

Zakim, next item

14:44:43 [Zakim]

agendum 3. "test updates from punctuationSyntax" taken up [from DanC]

14:44:53 [KevinW]

kendall expects to have another protocol spec draft ready by end of week.

14:49:33 [ericP]

referencing and including the relevent specs: http://www.w3.org/2005/02/25-SPARQL-Prototocol/#InpParm

14:50:09 [DanC]

. ACTION SteveH: to to propose tests for str() and =~

14:50:21 [kendall]

zakim, mute me

14:50:21 [Zakim]

Kendall_Clark should now be muted

14:50:42 [SteveH]

http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/tests/#regex-query-001

14:50:58 [SteveH]

http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/tests/#regex-query-003

14:51:34 [DanC]

action DONE

14:51:49 [DanC]

DONE: ACTION: SteveH to update the tests to reflect the new syntax

14:52:04 [DanC]

http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/tests/#sparql-query-example-a

14:52:04 [DanC]

http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/tests/#sparql-query-example-b

14:52:04 [DanC]

http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/tests/#sparql-query-example-c

14:52:04 [DanC]

http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/tests/#sparql-query-example-d

14:53:53 [DanC]

PROPOSED: to accept tests example-a,b,c,d

14:54:04 [DanC]

so RESOLVED

14:54:07 [AndyS]

rdfs:seeAlso http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/tests/data/ExprBuiltins/q-str-1.rq

14:54:43 [DanC]

onto http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/tests/#sparql-query-example-e

14:55:15 [kendall]

zakim, unmute me

14:55:15 [Zakim]

Kendall_Clark should no longer be muted

14:56:09 [DanC]

Zakim, next item

14:56:09 [Zakim]

agendum 4. "Test suite maintenance" taken up [from DanC]

14:56:56 [DanC]

Zakim, take up item 3

14:56:56 [Zakim]

agendum 3. "test updates from punctuationSyntax" taken up [from DanC]

14:57:12 [SteveH]

http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/tests/#dawg-triple-pattern-001

14:57:12 [SteveH]

http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/tests/#dawg-triple-pattern-002

14:57:12 [SteveH]

http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/tests/#dawg-triple-pattern-003

14:57:12 [SteveH]

http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/tests/#dawg-triple-pattern-004

14:57:54 [DanC]

RESOLVED to approve #dawg-triple-pattern-001,2, 3, 4

14:57:58 [DanC]

Zakim, next item

14:57:58 [Zakim]

agendum 4. "Test suite maintenance" taken up [from DanC]

14:58:19 [KevinW]

ACTION: approve test http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/tests/#sparql-query-example-e

14:58:25 [DanC]

ACTION EricP: to pair with SteveH on making the HTML test results page CONTINUES

14:58:35 [DanC]

ACTION SteveH: to to revise test manifest w.r.t. "background" and named graphs. CONTINUES

14:58:43 [DanC]

ACTION DaveB: to to propose source test to approve CONTINUES

14:58:56 [DanC]

ACTION JosD: Jos to propose an optional test based on ACTION op:dateTime triple CONTINUES

14:59:17 [DanC]

ACTION AndyS: to add the graph test cases (analagous to valueTesting test cases) CONTINUES

15:00:16 [DanC]

ACTION Jos: propose a test (based on dawg-triple-pattern-002?) with a . in a qname

15:00:24 [DanC]

Zakim, next item

15:00:24 [Zakim]

agendum 5. "Sorting issue/requirement?" taken up [from DanC]

15:01:03 [kendall]

one of our clients really wants some kind of sort, fwiw

15:01:15 [DanC]

Zakim, who's on the phone?

15:01:15 [Zakim]

On the phone I see AndyS, Kevin, HowardK, Kendall_Clark, DanC, EricP, SteveH, JanneS, JosD

15:02:59 [kendall]

fwiw, RAL, the rdf relational algebra which is the only one around, afaik, has sort and doesn't seem too worried about it at the algebra level

15:03:37 [kendall]

http://wwwis.win.tue.nl/~hera/papers/WISE2002/ral.pdf

15:08:19 [KevinW]

dan asks if sorting should be a design requirement with a use case, an objective or a feature.

15:09:01 [JanneS]

(my pdf viewer cannot find word 'sort' in the referred RAL doc)

15:09:17 [DanC]

PROPOSED: add something like "it should be possible to sort the results as well as limit them"

15:09:37 [SteveH]

If we have ORDER and LIMIT we may as well have OFFSET

15:09:55 [SteveH]

[which I was told I couldn't have because we didn't have sorting]

15:10:00 [DanC]

PROPOSED: add something like "it should be possible to sort the results as well as limit them" a a design objective

15:10:11 [DanC]

PROPOSED: add something like "it should be possible to sort the results as well as limit them" as a design objective

15:10:13 [AndyS]

Steve: ack

15:11:41 [DanC]

PROPOSED: add something like "it should be possible to sort the results" as a design objective

15:12:22 [DanC]

so RESOLVED.

15:12:55 [DanC]

ACTION AndyS: propose a SORT design

15:13:27 [DanC]

. ACTION KendallC: add sort objective [OK, Kendall?]

15:13:48 [DanC]

ACTION KendallC: add sort objective

15:14:06 [DanC]

ACTION DanC: add SORT issue

15:14:58 [DanC]

Zakim, next item

15:14:58 [Zakim]

agendum 6. "Privacy/Security issue/requirement/objective?" taken up [from DanC]

15:19:28 [Zakim]

-Kendall_Clark

15:19:51 [DanC]

ACTION EricP: propose "privacy considerations" for SPARQL protocol

15:19:58 [kendall]

damn cellphone

15:20:00 [AndyS]

Kendall - does the WS-policy action help here ?

15:20:13 [kendall]

it's relevant, yes

15:20:28 [DanC]

getting ready to adjourn anyway, kendall... or did you want to talk to somebody after?

15:20:42 [kendall]

eh, i'll catch andy another time.

15:20:55 [DanC]

ADJOURN

15:21:03 [Zakim]

-JosD

15:21:04 [Zakim]

-SteveH

15:21:06 [Zakim]

-HowardK

15:21:07 [Zakim]

-DanC

15:21:08 [Zakim]

-JanneS

15:21:11 [Zakim]

-Kevin

15:21:14 [KevinW]

KevinW has left #DAWG

15:25:15 [ericP]

http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/rq23/#func-isBound

15:28:01 [AndyS]

{ ?x foaf:name ?name ; :age ?age . FILTER bound(?age) && ?age < 18 }

15:28:25 [AndyS]

{ ?x foaf:name ?name ; :age ?age . FILTER !bound(?age) || ?age < 18 }

15:28:37 [AndyS]

{ ?x foaf:name ?name ; :age ?age . FILTER bound(?age) && ?age > 18 }

15:28:50 [AndyS]

OPTIONAL { ?x foaf:name ?name ; :age ?age . FILTER bound(?age) && ?age > 18 }

15:29:05 [AndyS]

OPTIONAL { ?x foaf:name ?name ; :age ?age . } . FILTER bound(?age) && ?age > 18

15:30:48 [ericP]

OPTIONAL { ?x foaf:name ?name ; :age ?age . } . FILTER ?age > 18

15:32:12 [SteveH]

I would still like constraints on optional vars to be illegal...

15:32:29 [SteveH]

There is an example of it in the testcases

15:32:37 [AndyS]

If possible, better to put inside OPTIONAL

15:32:46 [SteveH]

All the options for handling it suck in some way

15:32:52 [SteveH]

inside OPTIONAL is fine

15:33:26 [AndyS]

Better to go back to the reason we have bound to avoid an unsaid

15:34:56 [SteveH]

im confused.

15:35:09 [SteveH]

its just user error, it doesnt mean anything in particular

15:35:23 [SteveH]

well, its the same as the query with the optional keyword removed

15:40:02 [Zakim]

-EricP

15:40:05 [Zakim]

-AndyS

15:40:06 [Zakim]

SW_DAWG()9:30AM has ended

15:40:08 [Zakim]

Attendees were Kevin, HowardK, Kendall_Clark, DanC, AndyS, EricP, Holbrook|Gibbins, SteveH, JanneS, JosD

15:40:40 [AndyS]

rrsagent, please leave us

15:40:40 [RRSAgent]

I see 20 open action items:

15:40:40 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: Bijan to to propose text (story? etc.) to support WSDL requirement [1]

15:40:40 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/03/15-dawg-irc#T14-38-37

15:40:40 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: EricP to to review WSDL text proposal [2]

15:40:40 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/03/15-dawg-irc#T14-38-37-1

15:40:40 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: AndyS to to clarify 5.4 w/r/t closed world assumption [3]

15:40:40 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/03/15-dawg-irc#T14-38-37-2

15:40:40 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: AndyS to to explain how to get a whole graph with CONSTRUCT * and GRAPH. [4]

15:40:40 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/03/15-dawg-irc#T14-38-51

15:40:40 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: DaveB to to consider use of xsi:dataType ala comment from Steer [5]

15:40:40 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/03/15-dawg-irc#T14-38-51-1

15:40:40 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: EricP to to propose to close valueTesting (bonus points for test cases, to EricP or others) [6]

15:40:40 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/03/15-dawg-irc#T14-39-00

15:40:40 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: KendallC to discuss warnings in the protocol spec. [7]

15:40:40 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/03/15-dawg-irc#T14-42-51

15:40:40 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: KendallC to to add WSDL description of protocol to editor's draft, propose to WG [8]

15:40:40 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/03/15-dawg-irc#T14-42-51-1

15:40:40 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: KendallC to to add "since we're using WSDL, you can use WS-Policy..." to protocol draft [9]

15:40:40 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/03/15-dawg-irc#T14-42-57

15:40:40 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: approve test http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/tests/#sparql-query-example-e [10]

15:40:40 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/03/15-dawg-irc#T14-58-19

15:40:40 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: EricP to to pair with SteveH on making the HTML test results page CONTINUES [11]

15:40:40 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/03/15-dawg-irc#T14-58-25

15:40:40 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: SteveH to to to revise test manifest w.r.t. "background" and named graphs. CONTINUES [12]

15:40:40 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/03/15-dawg-irc#T14-58-35

15:40:40 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: DaveB to to to propose source test to approve CONTINUES [13]

15:40:40 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/03/15-dawg-irc#T14-58-43

15:40:40 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: JosD to Jos to propose an optional test based on ACTION op:dateTime triple CONTINUES [14]

15:40:40 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/03/15-dawg-irc#T14-58-56

15:40:40 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: AndyS to to add the graph test cases (analagous to valueTesting test cases) CONTINUES [15]

15:40:40 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/03/15-dawg-irc#T14-59-17

15:40:40 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: Jos to propose a test (based on dawg-triple-pattern-002?) with a . in a qname [16]

15:40:40 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/03/15-dawg-irc#T15-00-16

15:40:40 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: AndyS to propose a SORT design [17]

15:40:40 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/03/15-dawg-irc#T15-12-55

15:40:40 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: KendallC to add sort objective [18]

15:40:40 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/03/15-dawg-irc#T15-13-48

15:40:40 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: DanC to add SORT issue [19]

15:40:40 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/03/15-dawg-irc#T15-14-06

15:40:40 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: EricP to propose "privacy considerations" for SPARQL protocol [20]

15:40:40 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/03/15-dawg-irc#T15-19-51